passionman1 wrote:My comment is directed mainly toward Mia, but others weigh in too:
...What I'm giving her is not just permission to have intercourse with another man, but to have a relationship that would fulfill whatever was lacking in her life at any point in time. Each of us believe that sexual intimacy flows out of a loving relationship, not the other way around and it is for that reason that we would probably never enter into threesome scenario unless there was a strong overwhelming reason to. The final reason, was because there will come a day when I will be gone, and it would be nice to know going out that she has someone to support and help her through that transition.
Yes.
There are many poly families which have been created in the later decades of life to meet these exact needs: love, sex, friendship, companionship, mutual caring, and mutual support. The organization through which I met my S.O. twenty-five years ago has, over this same period of time, evolved into what amounts to a very extended North American poly "family," with individual "nuclear families" composed of many configurations of relationships and genders, most of whom now live either under one roof, or else close together in a particular geographical area. After almost three decades of experience, it is certainly now possible to say that these kinds of intentional poly families, formed by adults (often parents of grown children) who then advance through the subsequent years together, are highly successful. As life (and death) occur, these intentional poly families can be amazingly resiliant, meeting most of everyone's practical, emotional, and sexual needs most of the time.
passionman1 wrote:
A friend of mine was involved in a similar situation as those described throughout this forum dealing with Poly and it ended badly for them - almost breaking up their marriage. It was FMF arrangement, which has a very different dynamic than a MFM arrangement I would believe. The issues were not sexual related as was told to me, but revolved around the feelings of being left out, felling ganged up on (even though it never happened by their own admittance) or feeling like a third wheel in the relationship as a whole.
My guess (since I have no idea of what was really going on with these particular people) is that they had not maintained the necessary relationship work that any relationship (couple, Vee, triad, quad...whatever) requires. Good marriages of two people keep constantly growing in good and getting-ever-better ways; the same needs to be true of poly families too. If people feel they are being left out, "ganged up on," or "like a third wheel," then the first priority would necessarily be improving that poly family's communication skills, because quite obviously: open and transparent communication is not happening
somewhere or this situation would not be happening. And even though jealousy might not play a part in the problems you are referring to, the practical steps to
deal with jealousy would be applicable here. (Refer to the jealousy chapter in Deborah Anapol's book,
Polyamory; these strategies and skills are valuable for any two or more people, including monogamous couples.) Either the people you are referring to don't understand the "work" required (which becomes automatic with time), or they were not doing it. As in any relationship, if you don't tend to that relationship with the needed attention and care, the relationship will be either damaged or destroyed.
passionman1 wrote:
As I read through these forums, what I see is a majority of post by men that mostly aim at the sexual slant of things. While the sexual slant is arguably the lightning rod for them, what I think newbies fail to see is the extremely complex emotional dynamic of multiple love relationships. It is hard enough getting along with one person sometimes, say nothing of two, and when arguments break out as they will between two people, the third person in the relationship finds themselves potentially in the unenviable position of being asked to take sides, or being run to for emotional support which only widens the distance between the two individuals who are arguing. (I believe that was the 'almost undoing' of my friends relationship). Not to mention, putting the one being run to and the other one who is being run away from in diametric positions.
You're describing a "relationship" here that I would characterize as dysfunctional, instead of healthy. The "arguments" which have occurred in my poly relationships have been few, and mostly occur towards the beginnings of each relationship. It is exactly the same process that usually occurs with newly married couples as they form
their family. In my life, my S.O. and I do not have arguments. At all. We do get irritated with each other sometimes and this almost invariably means that one or both of us are low on blood sugar, and/or one or both of us are really stressed (by lack of sleep, exhaustion, etc.). What we do when this happens is that the first person to realize what is going on says: "You're low on blood sugar," or "I'm low on blood sugar," and the other person stops, thinks, and says: "You're right. Let me get something to eat [and then we will continue this conversation]."
"Arguments" are
not a natural part of healthy relationships, but disagreements
are. When my S.O. and I disagree, we each state our positions and then, once we've really listened to what the other person is saying, we begin to modify our stances according to whatever makes the most practical sense. In the case of your friends, it sounds to me like they were in great need of more work on their relating skills.
passionman1 wrote:
Another thing I see in some of the posts is the lack of female response regarding their perspective on where they stand in such relationships. To date, most of what I've seen is MFM, so (and I don't mean to leave anyone out because I haven't read every single response on every thread) the only one whom I feel who has addressed any the female response or perspective has been you.
Many of the women on this board are coming from a different place than I am. One of the reasons why the Poly Forum exists on this board is to provide another perspective on alt sexuality for couples-plus-others, most especially committed or bonded couples who hotwife and where the female finds herself falling in love with a sex partner. Polyamory is a way of incorporating the falling (and being) in love dynamic into hotwifing, and I think it is a far better response to this situation than the original couple breaking up or divorcing so the wife/gf can then, serial monogamy style, be with the lover. Poly
includes, and this ability to expand (similar to a parent's love as additional children arrive) preserves the existing two-person dyad within an evolving three (or more) person relationship.
passionman1 wrote:
So, my next question is, (and other ladies please chime in) what are your feelings regarding the emotional aspects of being the point of the 'V'? Especially after the heat of the relationship has waned, as it most surely will. Do you ever have second thoughts, feel trapped, obligated to pay more attention to one of your partners. If you respond, please be honest, as I know for many of us - me included - it's easier to sometimes give lip service than to come right out and say it.
Right up front: I pick poly partners well--not only for me personally, but also for whoever else is in a poly relationship with me. This is one of my personal priorities: to be a catalyst for compatible potential partners (sexual or not) coming together for the mutual benefit of everyone.
When you say "the heat of the relationship," I assume that you're referring to New Relationship Energy (NRE), which is a biochemical internal shower that does indeed wane, and this does happen in all relationships. But if people are doing this kind of lifestyle effectively, then there is a foundation of love, care, respect, honesty, and support being built
underneath the NRE, almost like a sturdy and solid cement block wall being built underneath a transitory wooden scaffolding which will, eventually, be taken down. As the NRE settles down to normal biochemical levels, the foundation underneath the NRE simultaneously grows and becomes more secure. In good two-person relationships, this is one of the prime reasons
why they are good over time. The same applies to poly relationships of all kinds.
I have never felt trapped because I have never
been trapped in a poly relationship. (I
have been trapped in conventional, male/female, monogamous relationships though.)
passionman1 wrote:
Although I've never been involved in a poly relationship, I think if I were the point of the 'V' from a FMF relationship, I would (in the beginning) feel a constant need to be vigilant to make sure both my partners felt secure in the situation, that they were fed emotionally and physically. That could get to be trying at times and make me feel like I have no time to just be myself. Logic says that's over-thinking the issue, but the reality is often the opposite case (unless you're a completely selfish person, which will more than likely doom the relationship from the get-go).
Everyone is different, and in good relationships of any kind everyone's differences are taken into consideration. This includes the need for solitude and "being alone" (of which I personally require an inordinate amount of time compared to most people; I am Myers-Briggs INFJ through and through). Sufficient "alone time" is essential for me; without it, I begin to shatter inside. Everyone I've ever been involved with in a live-in relationship knows this about me and has been willing to accommodate my needs on this point. If they weren't, they would not have proceeded into live-in circumstances.
Likewise, on other points, once individual needs are identified, means are developed so everyone is satisfied. This is also something that applies to
all good relationships, poly or mono.
For me, and for the relationships I've been in, this need to pay more attention to one particular person (because they're sick, injured, overly stressed, fearful...whatever) is just part of the flow of life. It's no different than a parent paying more attention to one of their children more than the others at a particular point in time because that child needs extra attention or care at that time. Children quickly mature enough to understand that if their sibling is sick, Mom and Dad are going to have to take care of that sick child...but when it is the "left out" person who needs extra attention, then Mom and Dad will take care of
them.
At any moment in time there may be inequalities, but in good poly relationships, this should always balance out over time so that most of everyone's needs are being met at any particular moment, and
everyone feels that their
total needs are being met over whatever the time cycles of that family's life are. It's seldom perfect, but
everyone should always feel that, on balance,
they are the ones in the most advantageous position in the family. This is what naturally occurs when people look out for each other's welfare (and including themselves in this; martyrs make very poor partners in poly relationships).
passionman1 wrote:
So my last question for the time being is this: how much does/did the above situation apply to you in the beginning and how much of the communication between the parties during the beginning of your relationship deal on the intangible feelings that live just below the surface? Because I believe these are the real issues that need to be worked out first as they relate to not only the physical sharing of bodies, but the actual 'living with each other' and all our idiosyncrasies and 'bad' habits (because we all have bad habits).
People evolve into poly relationships. They get to know each other. They get to understand the strengths and the foibles of each other.
Exactly as do people who date each other, begin to go together, commit to each other, and then--in many cases--marry each other.
The better the preparation, the better the relationship: in poly, exactly as in monogamy.