Couldn't get it right in 44 years

[Mkindling]

Yes it changed me…I realized I had built a shell around my heart. I couldn’t be honest with myself. I seek to find honesty within to answer truthfully now. It’s a real process for me. Takes effort to break old habits.

[venus-can99]

Yes it changed me…I realized I had built a shell around my heart. I couldn’t be honest with myself. I seek to find honesty within to answer truthfully now. It’s a real process for me. Takes effort to break old habits.

Hope things are well with you and T and as the shell around your heart crumbles and with a supportive hubby like T things are progressing.

[Happyjohnson]

To me it has been amazing just how our upbringing has had such an impact on our lives, its obvious why!
If I could discuss my wife's mind set and break down her wall about sex and attitudes, I and I'm sure she would be a lot happier in our lives, especially now that retirement has happened and we are empty nesters!
I have asked her, on numerous occasions about her sexual fantasies - "I don't have any" - end of conversation!, next subject!
I have attempted on numerous occasions to break through that wall to no avail! I take my hat off to you "T" for being persistent and getting through Marion's walls, well done and look how much happier you both are! (do you give lessons?)

[BB-Kink]

I think "Late's " reply below seemed to be in response from one of your earlier posts about, "NO", that was more of a kneejerk automatic no that should have been overcome.

I reread the entire thread just now. One significant lesson we all struggle with in our daily lives is to keep striving to become better at learning or guessing if or when we should push past that no, accept it, try another time, or just spend more effort to learn what the right answer should have been. Then next, take the right action, now or later. And if it occurs often and it is important, then fix it or at least don't ignore working on it.

The effects of often accepting that no for decades radically affected your relationship, and mine as well. Our job in any relationship is to push past whatever words are spoken, and find out what the answer really should be, regardless of what was said, or thought they meant at the time. Being that perceptive, and then paying the price in both risk and time to push past that to discover what the answer would have been without the barriers that were erected, (no pun here, BTW is sometimes costly and we avoid it.

Some couples have supposed rules that, "if you want it and ask, sex will never be denied". I think that is impractical, too imposing on the other person, and is never a rule that is followed very closely. OTOH, I think it is imperative to push past the "no", and first discover what the real reason is, or would be, without the impulse driven barrier. Then, go the next step and take whatever action is appropriate for this instance, or over a long period of time, and fix what's broken, (if anything).

I think there is a lot to learn here in this thread, so I hope it is flagged as "please preserve" and move to where it won't be automatically axed. Maybe there's an admin function that would allow you to take a snapshot of a thread that includes all the meta-data, that could be "restored" intact from that point in time.

"At that moment I was struck with the realization that M didn't know the real M. She had learned to lie to herself, to deny her wants. "It's like you've built a shell around your heart. You need to connect with your genuine inner self, and believe it", I said."

There were several things you have mentioned that really struck home to me, but this is the most significant one. I don't know if it a breakthrough moment for US (my wife and me), but I do know that it is a breakthrough for me. I have just started to pursue it with her, so we'll have to see where it goes. Anyway, I do appreciate you taking the time to document your story, and share it with this community, with me.

Late

[Restarting]

To me it has been amazing just how our upbringing has had such an impact on our lives, its obvious why!
If I could discuss my wife's mind set and break down her wall about sex and attitudes, I and I'm sure she would be a lot happier in our lives, especially now that retirement has happened and we are empty nesters!
I have asked her, on numerous occasions about her sexual fantasies - "I don't have any" - end of conversation!, next subject!
I have attempted on numerous occasions to break through that wall to no avail! I take my hat off to you "T" for being persistent and getting through Marion's walls, well done and look how much happier you both are! (do you give lessons?)

When you say attitudes, does that mean what she wants (as opposed to her acceptance of other people's choices)?

I've seen people that feel like they earn "extra credit" by denying themselves their wants. To me, those people are rewarding their self-deception (I don't want what I want). Denying fantasies can be part of the self-deception. Do you think your wife does that? If so, does she deny her non-sexual desires, too?

In our case, M, not me, broke through the wall. If anything, I helped her recognize that the wall existed. But it was her wall. IMO, only she could tear it down (and consciously work to keep it that way). She learned to trust herself.

Upbringing consists of learning and adhering to rules established by older generations. We are taught to respect our elders. The great news is that as retirees, we are now the elders. We set our rules. We are the people the younger crowd shakes their heads about the way we act, but realize they can do nothing and we are accountable to nobody (as long as it's legal). It's less of justifying why I might do something and more, why not do it. Time is running short.

So I hope your wife gets on board and appreciates the benefits that senior citizens enjoy, while she still can.

Empty nesters: that means you can walk around the house naked! And yes, we are so much happier now!

[Late]

"At that moment I was struck with the realization that M didn't know the real M. She had learned to lie to herself, to deny her wants. "It's like you've built a shell around your heart. You need to connect with your genuine inner self, and believe it", I said."

There were several things you have mentioned that really struck home to me, but this is the most significant one. I don't know if it a breakthrough moment for US (my wife and me), but I do know that it is a breakthrough for me. I have just started to pursue it with her, so we'll have to see where it goes. Anyway, I do appreciate you taking the time to document your story, and share it with this community, with me.

Late

Late, it warms my heart to know our experience might help you both achieve higher levels of happiness, thank you. I remember feeling a rush when that realization hit me. It was monumental when M validated my view and reset her compass. You can't fix a problem if you can't define it.

I hope, if your wife has formed a similar shell, that she recognizes it, believes in her core that it exists, and that any desire she has to change it, comes from deep within herself. With focus, her habit of maintaining that barrier around her heart can be broken.

I'm confident your communication can deepen your understanding of each other. Please share how your conversations with your wife go.

You asked how our conversations are going. I don't know where we will end up because I now focus on making sure she is thinking about what she REALLY wants, not what she has been taught to want. She is enjoying life more, and I am getting enjoyment from her enjoyment. Will we ever end up out of the wannabe category? I don't know, and don't really care. Wherever we end up, as long as it's where she truly wants to be, will be okay with me.

BB-kink mentioned in response to my comment that he agreed we just have to push through the "NO", that we need to overcome it. I don't know if that was what I had in mind when I said it, but I do agree with it. I think that once we get past the "NO" we have to be ready to accept whatever we end up with.

In our case, I don't think we are past the "NO" stage at this point, but we are far enough into it that we both are seeing some light at the other end. Both of us are enjoying what we are seeing. It will be interesting to find out if we are both seeing the same thing, or if we will both be happy with what the other one is seeing, feeling, thinking, doing.

Thanks again.
Late