I'm Ky, and I'm a cuck-oholic

[txrockdog]

That is a tough nut Ky. I don’t envy you guys trying to work through that. Definitively a cautionary tale about how far to go on the emotional side with relationships involving people who don’t and shouldn’t know the full story.

Regarding the meet with Sipho’s former assistant. Is this a couple he used to or still plays with?

[mick_flow]

Hey Ky, and yes. No one’s position is 100% identical, but a similar one. Actually one you posted on. I wrote a while back about “rowing back from the edge”.

My wife, E, found R on tinder, a guy she really liked. After meeting him for this first time she came home an announced that she thought he was “the one”. This wasn’t our first rodeo, and this time around I was really keen to explore the emotional as well as the physical aspects of cuckolding. – Yes, I know, more fool me – and we know this because of the title of my past posts.

R was divorced and single, no kids. But a large local friend network, and of course family. This did mean his house was free for when the met, and she’d often go over to his. Most of my wife’s previous experiences had been at hotels and with married or otherwise “busy” guys. The combination of cost and logistic placed a natural limit on when they could meet. A free house on the other hand opened a world of possibilities.

Both E and R are partial to a drink, and then this requires not driving and staying over. I love this, and wanted to encourage more of it as a way for them to become emotionally closer.
So, I started pushing, I suggested she leave a tooth brush over at his. Then perhaps a hair brush, some makeup. Soon she had her own cabinet in his bathroom. Then I suggested clothing, I wanted her to buy stuff to leave over, and bring undies over to his place. She did both. The end result was she was with him 3 sometimes 4 nights a week. Not only did E meet his family, but he met me of course, our kids, then both my family and my wife’s. He was “just a friend”, but ended up at a lot of family functions.

The old adage of learn from my mistakes applies – and I screwed up. But things went wrong. It started with those 3 – 4 nights a week at home. When we first started the journey I’d stay awake in bed waiting for her to come back. The angst and excitement running through me. I’d be checking my phone every few mins, and too horny to think straight. A heady mix of porn, edging, my imagination and anticipation keeping me entertained. But, all of that started to fade. The realities of in affect being a alone kicked in. The arousal vanished. Seeing him became routine, expected, the details being shared dropped, no real reconnection. At the same time I started pushing my wife for letting me see someone else, and I did find an amazing lady, M. We even had all 4 of us meet up at some points, my wife going to bed with R and me with M.
R started pushing for more, as did M. I turned M down, but R kept pushing, and my wife started asking about “co-parenting”. That was my tipping point. It was time to “row back from the edge” and put a stop to everything. – It was ugly, but she had to break it off with R. However the relationship with R, his mum and step dad, sister, friends was deep. So E didn’t want it to end completely she wanted to remain friends with R.

It took a heart to heart with R, and supporting him as he searched for a new partner. He came to understand that a long term relationship was never on the cards with E. But we worked though it. Even afterwards there was the occasional hook-up and a 3 sum with another women at a bar, as much as I was turned on by, I tried to pass on. But we did it.

Her and R still text and occasionally call, but they don’t see each other. We are friends. It’s still weird when someone asks how we met, in a way R has a unique insight into our relationship that few others know. But it is possible.

All this taught me that the people we invite into our lives are themselves important, what starts as a fantasy can quickly become more, and mean more to others. Being sympathetic to that is so important. Including when you try to wind down a relationship.

[venus-can99]

Ky thanks for the write up about Matt and Jamie. I wish her lots of luck on extricating herself from Matt’s family while making sure friendships remain.
IMO mick_flow’s post above may offer some pointers.

[false-abroad]

With the Matt situation it is above my pay grade. It has an erotic component to it, but there are a lot of people involved, that are outside of it. There is no scenario I can imagine where it can end without any pain. That's the play. It went to deep. Even going poly, which is not an option, would not necessarily make it easier. She can only try to gradually go away, but it will not go like boiling the frog. Even boiling the frog doesn't go like boiling the frog - in the reality the frog jumps out of the water when it gets too hot even if it is gradual.

Back to perving. Does your wife now goes without a bra at all times? Even with Matt for example? Did she get some comments about it other than her mother and husband? Does she still wear her nipple rings?

(...) But, "making a slut out of my wife," is a little overstated, or at least it is in my mind. My objective was never primarily to 'make her a slut'. Although, an argument can be made for it depending on the meaning one puts behind the term slut. Today it's a fairly broad term, and in the cuckold circles it's not exactly looked at as derogatory. (...)

I meant it in this complimentary sense. A woman that is free in exploring her sexuality.

(...) I do admit I've always been turned on by the idea of my wife getting fucked by other guys, but part of that has been, and is, to see her reach higher heights of pleasure. Yet, your statement about one's wife being a hopeless slut to other men hits home. As I think about it, I do find some enjoyment in that thought, that my wife is subservient to her libido, that her sexual drive becomes so strong she's helpless to do otherwise. Fuck, yeah, that's an erotic thought there.

I think that is the key. Having your wife to be so turned on to do things that are not considered proper for a married wife (and a mother). You do love to see her forgetting about the whole world (including you - her husband, love of her life) in the pursue of pleasure from other men. I would argue that seeing her reach higher heights of pleasure is directly related to being a voyeur. You absolutely love the sight or the sound of her being in throes of passion. For me seeing her eyes getting big or rolling back and especially hearing my wife moaning is my favorite thing in the world. I would like to see it from a spectator point of view. Then I wouldn't need to balance my own arousal to not end too quickly and her sexual excitement that will trigger me earlier then I would want for both of us. There is also physical strain of sex, that I like and do not have too much problem with, but it also doesn't fully allow to focus on witnessing the concert of her pleasure. But then that wouldn't be all, would it? What about her being with her lover alone? When you sometimes would only get her story, not even pictures. It is about her pleasure, but there is also this pull to her doing things considered dirty. Slutty. We like this contrast. Love of our live doing something dirty.

Later you state, "but I understand there are lots of things/societal programming a woman has to overcome to enjoy her slutdom. Your wife did that for you and now she enjoys it immensely herself. I think she wants the same for/from you and she thinks that you will have a similar journey as her - overcoming some hang ups and enjoy the result." This is something I haven't really considered, and it's made me pause and think. Is it more about overcoming social hang ups. To a degree, yeah, I have to say it is. It's not all that, but I need to noodle that one out for a minute because there's some truth to it. Is my wife hoping to free me of those social constraints so I can enjoy the physical as much as her? Maybe.

I think it is for her not only about you enjoying the physical. Same as for you it is not only about her receiving physical pleasure. You are turned on by her doing dirty things, she is turned on doing dirty things, but she is also turned because her doing dirty things is turning you on. Her turn on is your turn on, your turn on is her turn on. You have a feedback loop here, that spins in one direction, she would like to create another that would spin in the other direction as well. That is getting complex and I almost think about doing a flow chart.

You gave me a few things to think about... I like the idea of making my wife cream in her knickers, but to be thought of as a cocksucker is something that is deeply engraved into my conscience as something one does not want to be. I might have grown up in California where such things were more socially acceptable, but the friends and acquaintances of my youth were not so openminded, and the nature of that environment left its mark.

Were your or her friends and acquaintances more openminded to a thought of a wife having a boyfriend? Or a wife getting her arse stretched regularly by another man's bigger cock? Or her cervix getting painted by another man, walking with his cum sloshing around her cunt, seeping through her panties and dripping down her thighs? Is this socially acceptable in California or the UK?

I am not saying it is something you will ever get to enjoy doing. I would also have my doubts and I'm not sure I would follow. I think it is a bit of hypocritical of husbands (myself included) to want our wives to be sluts. Like a fish in the water she is, spreading her legs for other men, but I can't ever go so low. Of course it is more complex than that.

When I was mentioning my wife that I would like to see her with another man she thought I must not love her or that it makes me less of a man. You are in a different situation. In your situation I think I would eventually make your wife's wish, but I would prefer for this to be a different man altogether. Not her favorite lover so I wouldn't feel it shifts even more power to him, but a separate thing that would be to explore this thing only. Then I would like for her to do something for me/with me when I'm in a position of power again to fix the balance. Then you observe how it was and is afterwards and act accordingly. I wouldn't want ever to be a diapered sissy husband (cheers to all that want it).

I wanted to add something else. I like your use of the expression "playing the game". That's how I always wanted it to be. A game we play, that we can pause or stop at any given time. Our live is ours and the game is part of it, but it is still a game. I don't know if you are familiar with Thadsgood from Literotica. I love his stories, but he did remove some of his best IMO stories like Michelle and My Co-Workers (I have it archived on my side). But at least on Asstr there is Games We Play in four parts. He never goes by ultimate cuckold elements (though the husband will get a lot of angst, some denial and concealed humiliation) and he likes the fantasy of the wife giving herself to guys the husband doesn't like (I also like the fantasy, would probably not like the reality). But what they do is playing the game and tightening the screw until some great finale. Usually the couple in a story have a clean exit, which is not as available having a family.

[offendedgame]

Hey Ky, and yes. No one’s position is 100% identical, but a similar one. Actually one you posted on. I wrote a while back about “rowing back from the edge”.

My wife, E, found R on tinder, a guy she really liked. After meeting him for this first time she came home an announced that she thought he was “the one”. This wasn’t our first rodeo, and this time around I was really keen to explore the emotional as well as the physical aspects of cuckolding. – Yes, I know, more fool me – and we know this because of the title of my past posts.

R was divorced and single, no kids. But a large local friend network, and of course family. This did mean his house was free for when the met, and she’d often go over to his. Most of my wife’s previous experiences had been at hotels and with married or otherwise “busy” guys. The combination of cost and logistic placed a natural limit on when they could meet. A free house on the other hand opened a world of possibilities.

Both E and R are partial to a drink, and then this requires not driving and staying over. I love this, and wanted to encourage more of it as a way for them to become emotionally closer.
So, I started pushing, I suggested she leave a tooth brush over at his. Then perhaps a hair brush, some makeup. Soon she had her own cabinet in his bathroom. Then I suggested clothing, I wanted her to buy stuff to leave over, and bring undies over to his place. She did both. The end result was she was with him 3 sometimes 4 nights a week. Not only did E meet his family, but he met me of course, our kids, then both my family and my wife’s. He was “just a friend”, but ended up at a lot of family functions.

The old adage of learn from my mistakes applies – and I screwed up. But things went wrong. It started with those 3 – 4 nights a week at home. When we first started the journey I’d stay awake in bed waiting for her to come back. The angst and excitement running through me. I’d be checking my phone every few mins, and too horny to think straight. A heady mix of porn, edging, my imagination and anticipation keeping me entertained. But, all of that started to fade. The realities of in affect being a alone kicked in. The arousal vanished. Seeing him became routine, expected, the details being shared dropped, no real reconnection. At the same time I started pushing my wife for letting me see someone else, and I did find an amazing lady, M. We even had all 4 of us meet up at some points, my wife going to bed with R and me with M.
R started pushing for more, as did M. I turned M down, but R kept pushing, and my wife started asking about “co-parenting”. That was my tipping point. It was time to “row back from the edge” and put a stop to everything. – It was ugly, but she had to break it off with R. However the relationship with R, his mum and step dad, sister, friends was deep. So E didn’t want it to end completely she wanted to remain friends with R.

It took a heart to heart with R, and supporting him as he searched for a new partner. He came to understand that a long term relationship was never on the cards with E. But we worked though it. Even afterwards there was the occasional hook-up and a 3 sum with another women at a bar, as much as I was turned on by, I tried to pass on. But we did it.

Her and R still text and occasionally call, but they don’t see each other. We are friends. It’s still weird when someone asks how we met, in a way R has a unique insight into our relationship that few others know. But it is possible.

All this taught me that the people we invite into our lives are themselves important, what starts as a fantasy can quickly become more, and mean more to others. Being sympathetic to that is so important. Including when you try to wind down a relationship.

[offendedgame]

Yeah, I think those early posts are history. That's too bad. I never saved any of those, but it would be interesting to go back an reread them from today's perspective. We were so naïve in those days. We made every mistake possible and had to work through so many things.

I actually found your previous thread when I used waybackmachine, it's name was "I don't care anymore. I like what I like" or something.
I'm sure we can find the first one as well.

[DarrenZ]

I have zero experience with what you're going through with Jaimee/Matt.

From a realistic perspective, yes, it sounds like things will need to end. Especially if her sexual attention is pulled towards Sipho, what remains is a relationship that competes too much with what you all have. Unless somehow polyamory is an interest to the both of you.

From a storytelling/kink perspective, for amping up the cuckold angst of "being replaced" this is an ideal situation. I've read posts on here about wives moving in with boyfriends, even yours when Jaimee moved in with Wade while you were travelling before kids. Those are always particularly hot to me with living a double life, all the unwitnessed moments of intimacy, and the fear of exposure.

[veub]

Yeah, I think those early posts are history. That's too bad. I never saved any of those, but it would be interesting to go back an reread them from today's perspective. We were so naïve in those days. We made every mistake possible and had to work through so many things.

I actually found your previous thread when I used waybackmachine, it's name was "I don't care anymore. I like what I like" or something.
I'm sure we can find the first one as well.

https:// web DOT archive DOT org/web/20180118002657/http:// ourhotwives DOT org/forum/viewtopic DOT php?f=6&t=47368

Remove the spaces after //
The earlier thread returns a message that the page isn't found.

[veub]

I would like to tell you that the angst level I get from the read is similar to when I read some stories from Literotica. I envy you, that you managed to make a slut out of your wife, even if that was just a correct push. But maybe the same can be said about a rocket sending Voyager or other probes into space. Those were big rockets, but gravity assist is then a thing that makes it happen. Maybe it is the same with you and your wife.

I would be on the same boat as you - I enjoy a thought about my wife being a almost complete and hopeless slut to other men. I like to think of her degradation and my own is something I may enjoy, but in a very limited fashion. Cages, creampie eating, cock sucking - those are things that can excite me in the context of a story, but too much focus on that and I'm lost. It is something that I do not ever fantasize for myself to happen. Now I don't think my wife will ever humour me and play with another man, but I understand there are lots of things/societal programming a woman has to overcome to enjoy her slutdom. Your wife did that for you and now she enjoys it immensely herself. I think she wants the same for/from you and she thinks that you will have a similar journey as her - overcoming some hang ups and enjoy the result. I understand why that is not up your alley and how you don't have the hang ups to overcome - you just dislike it, though I also understand your wife.

You are also not alone loving soft tits being free.

I love the analogy! How a small, well-timed action (the gravity assist or a push) can have a significant impact on trajectory. But, "making a slut out of my wife," is a little overstated, or at least it is in my mind. My objective was never primarily to 'make her a slut'. Although, an argument can be made for it depending on the meaning one puts behind the term slut. Today it's a fairly broad term, and in the cuckold circles it's not exactly looked at as derogatory. I do admit I've always been turned on by the idea of my wife getting fucked by other guys, but part of that has been, and is, to see her reach higher heights of pleasure. Yet, your statement about one's wife being a hopeless slut to other men hits home. As I think about it, I do find some enjoyment in that thought, that my wife is subservient to her libido, that her sexual drive becomes so strong she's helpless to do otherwise. Fuck, yeah, that's an erotic thought there.

Later you state, "but I understand there are lots of things/societal programming a woman has to overcome to enjoy her slutdom. Your wife did that for you and now she enjoys it immensely herself. I think she wants the same for/from you and she thinks that you will have a similar journey as her - overcoming some hang ups and enjoy the result." This is something I haven't really considered, and it's made me pause and think. Is it more about overcoming social hang ups. To a degree, yeah, I have to say it is. It's not all that, but I need to noodle that one out for a minute because there's some truth to it. Is my wife hoping to free me of those social constraints so I can enjoy the physical as much as her? Maybe.

You gave me a few things to think about... I like the idea of making my wife cream in her knickers, but to be thought of as a cocksucker is something that is deeply engraved into my conscience as something one does not want to be. I might have grown up in California where such things were more socially acceptable, but the friends and acquaintances of my youth were not so openminded, and the nature of that environment left its mark.

Thanks for the comment. It's given me a few new things to consider.

Ky,

I could be wrong, but I find it interesting how the humiliation game seems to be playing out here. It's my sense that you know you will, and want to, start sucking cock for her but know it won't be nearly as exiciting for her if she doesn't believe that you are humiliated by doing it. You want to give her that thrill. So you ramp up the refusal to a high point before finally getting on your knees. You know that every time you do in in the future will not have that same level of excitement for her - it will become routine and expected. To get back to the same level for her will take something more.

[veub]

Were your or her friends and acquaintances more openminded to a thought of a wife having a boyfriend? Or a wife getting her arse stretched regularly by another man's bigger cock? Or her cervix getting painted by another man, walking with his cum sloshing around her cunt, seeping through her panties and dripping down her thighs? Is this socially acceptable in California or the UK?

All their friends already know, and have known for a long time that Jaimee has a boyfriend and that Ky is a cuck. At least amoung their UK friends it's acceptable. I'm sure they find it amusing.

[false-abroad]

Were your or her friends and acquaintances more openminded to a thought of a wife having a boyfriend? Or a wife getting her arse stretched regularly by another man's bigger cock? Or her cervix getting painted by another man, walking with his cum sloshing around her cunt, seeping through her panties and dripping down her thighs? Is this socially acceptable in California or the UK?

All their friends already know, and have known for a long time that Jaimee has a boyfriend and that Ky is a cuck. At least amoung their UK friends it's acceptable. I'm sure they find it amusing.

I guess it is acceptable now. But I was asking about the childhood and young adulthood as defining time for both - for Ky and for Jamiee.

Edit: I don't want to push this offtopic with veub further, so I will only add an edit here instead of a full comment. I meant this all in context what Jamiee had to overcome as a woman in contrast to Ky's current hang ups.

[veub]

Hey all,

Next subject:
If you recall, Matt’s been my wife’s boyfriend for a year now, and Jaimee’s grown very close to him and his family. Recently there’s been a fair amount of drama, which I haven’t gotten into much on my updates. It’s not something I find enjoyable to write about, and some of it’s pretty personal and my wife wouldn’t want me sharing it.

Despite the sexual high we experienced with Sipho, I still get hit with a case of extreme angst when it comes to my wife and her boyfriend Matt. I think a lot of that is the nature of their relationship more than the actual sex. I’ll scroll through the pictures in my wife’s phone and see pictures of her with Matt and his two teenage kids, or pictures with other extended family around. Jaimee doesn’t wear her ring
when she’s Matt, it would trigger too many questions. For me, seeing her in those pictures still causes me some of the strongest angst. In some ways, it’s like she has a double life, and I wonder how far she’ll go with that other life. I wonder if that’s part of the reason she’s been pulling away from that
relationship. As much as she’s enjoyed it, she’s in uncharted waters that are more and more challenging to navigate.

The other night my wife went to a piano recital for Matt’s kids. They’ve taken lessons for some time, but they’ve really progressed since Jaimee started supplementing lessons. Jaimee’s an amazing pianist, something she learned from her time in school since the arts were so heavily pushed. Jaimee’s developed real relationships with Matt’s kids and a number of extended family members, and it’s getting
more and more difficult to manage bouncing back and forth between two families. Again, I think that’s why Jaimee’s been trying to pull back, but it’s proving harder to do than she anticipated.

I haven’t touched on much of the relationship between Jaimee and Matt, so I thought I might fill in the blanks so that what I’m going to share next has some context.

When they first started hooking up, it was just for a fun date and for sex. There was about a two month period where they were basically friends with benefits. As time progressed, it was natural that she’d occasionally meet a family member, a neighbor, or a random friend, so little by little, she became emersed more into his life. It’s always been tricky to balance, because Jaimee’s got three kids of her own to care for, and a husband that travels way too much for work. Yet, little by little, she’s become more
emersed into Matt’s life, and the lives of his kids and extended family.

If things could remain status quo, I suppose it would be an easier decision to continue with Matt, but with the ubiquitous use of social media, we’re worried some of Matt’s family might figure out Jaimee’s other life, and then it things could get really ugly. Looking back on it, we definitely see where we made some bad decisions. Jaimee should have avoided any further family engagement, but when it happened one small instance at a time, we didn’t really see it until it became a potential larger issue than we were
ready for.

My wife showed me a picture Matt had sent her via mobile phone. It was of the wall of pictures at his parents house. I’m sure you know the wall, the one that has an array of framed pictures of various family members taken over the years. Well, one framed picture was of Matt, Jaimee, and his two kids. It was a nice picture, taken at random on an afternoon when they were together. The picture looked just like any other, like a loving husband, wife, and two kids. When I first saw the picture, I nearly had to sit down. It
hit me with such an overwhelming wave of angst, that it nearly doubled me over. It was one thing for my wife to have a boyfriend, it was quite another for her to have basically a second family.

I don’t want to get into too many details, but that’s where some of the drama lies when it comes to Matt. Jaimee knows my mind on this one. I’m fine with the relationship if it’s just a simple boyfriend/girlfriend thing, but it’s gone much further than that, and she needs to find a way to divest
herself.

I mentioned earlier that Jaimee had agreed to go to Matt’s parents anniversary that’s coming up as part of his agreement for her seeing Sipho, and I didn’t really go into details, but that’s been the source of more tension in the house. We’re working through it. I get the position my wife’s in. It’s not easy to end things with Matt without there being some kind of hurt feelings, but at this point, I don’t know how she can manage to do otherwise. In other words, I don’t think there’s the soft landing my wife’s hoping she can pull off. And I think there’s a part of her that’s having a hard time coming to grips with it. She cares for Matt and his kids, she has real friendships with some of his extended family, but it’s all going to end in an epic disaster if the full truth comes out.

Anyone out there ever faced anything like what I’m describing?

I know you said that there is no contact between your kids and Matt, but if she is so deeply involved with him, how could their not be? Certainly there are at least social events they attend together that involve the kids.

[veub]

Were your or her friends and acquaintances more openminded to a thought of a wife having a boyfriend? Or a wife getting her arse stretched regularly by another man's bigger cock? Or her cervix getting painted by another man, walking with his cum sloshing around her cunt, seeping through her panties and dripping down her thighs? Is this socially acceptable in California or the UK?

All their friends already know, and have known for a long time that Jaimee has a boyfriend and that Ky is a cuck. At least amoung their UK friends it's acceptable. I'm sure they find it amusing.

I guess it is acceptable now. But I was asking about the childhood and young adulthood as defining time for both - for Ky and for Jamiee.

They dove into this in young adulthood and it's been a constant thoughout their relationship. I'm sure that there are very, very few people they knew as children or teens that would find this acceptable - there are very, very few people who find it acceptable now. I am sure that few of their current neighbors or friends would find it acceptable in their own relationships even if they find it intriguing to watch from the outside.

[txrockdog]

Were your or her friends and acquaintances more openminded to a thought of a wife having a boyfriend? Or a wife getting her arse stretched regularly by another man's bigger cock? Or her cervix getting painted by another man, walking with his cum sloshing around her cunt, seeping through her panties and dripping down her thighs? Is this socially acceptable in California or the UK?

All their friends already know, and have known for a long time that Jaimee has a boyfriend and that Ky is a cuck. At least amoung their UK friends it's acceptable. I'm sure they find it amusing.

I guess it is acceptable now. But I was asking about the childhood and young adulthood as defining time for both - for Ky and for Jamiee.

They dove into this in young adulthood and it's been a constant thoughout their relationship. I'm sure that there are very, very few people they knew as children or teens that would find this acceptable - there are very, very few people who find it acceptable now. I am sure that few of their current neighbors or friends would find it acceptable in their own relationships even if they find it intriguing to watch from the outside.

While the UK is not continental europe, there is still much more of an acceptance of consensual non-monogamy over there. It happens more often as a man taking a mistress with his wife’s knowledge. But I don't think most people over there are as likely to look down their nose at anybody for doing something outside the marriage as long as both parties are aware and seem happy with it.

[veub]

All their friends already know, and have known for a long time that Jaimee has a boyfriend and that Ky is a cuck. At least amoung their UK friends it's acceptable. I'm sure they find it amusing.

I guess it is acceptable now. But I was asking about the childhood and young adulthood as defining time for both - for Ky and for Jamiee.

They dove into this in young adulthood and it's been a constant thoughout their relationship. I'm sure that there are very, very few people they knew as children or teens that would find this acceptable - there are very, very few people who find it acceptable now. I am sure that few of their current neighbors or friends would find it acceptable in their own relationships even if they find it intriguing to watch from the outside.

While the UK is not continental europe, there is still much more of an acceptance of consensual non-monogamy over there. It happens more often as a man taking a mistress with his wife’s knowledge. But I don't think most people over there are as likely to look down their nose at anybody for doing something outside the marriage as long as both parties are aware and seem happy with it.

Surveys on attitudes toward extra-marital sex would indicate otherwise. Strong majorities in all countries except France consistently find extra-marital
sex morally unacceptable. An obvious cuckold - humilation relationship would, I expect, would receive greater condemnation.

[wannabecUKold]

When there are articles in the newspapers about open relationships, the comments columns tend to be largely hostile, not from a religiously moral point of view, but along the lines that couples should make do with each other. That said, It seems to be becoming rapidly mainstream And it is not seen as shameful in the way it used to be. Long may this progress continue

[txrockdog]

I guess it is acceptable now. But I was asking about the childhood and young adulthood as defining time for both - for Ky and for Jamiee.

They dove into this in young adulthood and it's been a constant thoughout their relationship. I'm sure that there are very, very few people they knew as children or teens that would find this acceptable - there are very, very few people who find it acceptable now. I am sure that few of their current neighbors or friends would find it acceptable in their own relationships even if they find it intriguing to watch from the outside.

While the UK is not continental europe, there is still much more of an acceptance of consensual non-monogamy over there. It happens more often as a man taking a mistress with his wife’s knowledge. But I don't think most people over there are as likely to look down their nose at anybody for doing something outside the marriage as long as both parties are aware and seem happy with it.

Surveys on attitudes toward extra-marital sex would indicate otherwise. Strong majorities in all countries except France consistently find extra-marital
sex morally unacceptable. An obvious cuckold - humilation relationship would, I expect, would receive greater condemnation.

Do those surveys distinguish between cheating and open marriages? I would not be shocked that everybody despises cheaters. But it would surprise me if they had strong opinions against a consensual non-monogamy situation.

[veub]

No. But neither do they distinguish between people who are:
- unmarried and have no experience in a marital relationship
- people who in the abstract who don't find and objection, but would not be happy with it themselves
- people who don't condemn an affair or even an open marriage but wouldn't be happy with the obvious humiliation in this situation where the husband is thought to be an object of amusement or pity

[txrockdog]

That is a tough nut Ky. I don’t envy you guys trying to work through that. Definitively a cautionary tale about how far to go on the emotional side with relationships involving people who don’t and shouldn’t know the full story.

Regarding the meet with Sipho’s former assistant. Is this a couple he used to or still plays with?

Another thought just popped into my head Ky. Will the husband of this couple be the first other cuck you have ever talked to about the lifestyle in person? Seems like maybe the two of you ought to have a side conversation about what being cucked by Sipho is like. There are probably topics of interest to you that he might be reluctant to talk about in front of his wife or that you might not want to discuss in front of Jaimee or the other wife.

[David52]

Hi Ky, You have described how Jaimee slipped into a relationship with Matt’s family. But what about Matt? What could be his motive for allowing a situation to develop that no one could see ending well. I don’t think you came out and said it, but it appears Jaimee and Matt have not told the family Jaimee is married. Do they think she is single and available? When the truth comes out, Jaimee can come home, but Matt will be the one left to try to explain. Why do you think he has allowed this to develop?

I look forward to hearing about your dinner with Sipho’s former assistant.

Thanks for delving deeper into the dynamics. I am still in awe of a woman who can manage 3 small kids and 3 grown men, simultaneously.

[mick_flow]

Hi David,

That’s a good question. I can’t speak for Ky, obviously. But in our case R just well… fell in love. With it came the impossible dream.

I do think, we’ve all a tendency when we are with someone to suspend reality. We live in that moment and revel in the impossible dream.

I don’t know about other folks here who are in long term relationships, but I didn’t start out dating my wife with the expectation of getting married and spending the rest of my life with her - at least not initially. It’s something that developed naturally.

Back to R and my wife E. What started to get to my wife was a sense of guilt for not being at home more. She missed our kids and wanted to be there for them. The separation of the two “lives” was getting too much. We almost broke up with the co-parenting talk. It’s the closest we’ve ever come to that.

After a while in the lifestyle, I started to feel guilty. Unless you find someone who is already in the lifestyle it just felt like I and by extension we ended up causing too much collateral damage. Damage both to the other guy, and as I saw with the competing feelings my wife experienced with her too.

Don’t get me wrong, the thrill of seeing your wife “taken” or at least complete infatuated with another guy is amazing. Loved it. But the hard reality of the situation is not something I’d wish on anyone. If you can pull off a balance - your doing amazing.

[DarrenZ]

... We almost broke up with the co-parenting talk. It’s the closest we’ve ever come to that.

I can imagine so. I can't fathom a wife's lover having the nerve to even suggest doing this.

[mick_flow]

I can imagine so. I can't fathom a wife's lover having the nerve to even suggest doing this.

Yeah. I guess looking back at it, R had at that stage been introduced to the kids, was involved in birthday parties as a family friend, would buy gifts for them, etc. my own mother met him, and he stayed with my father in law.

You could say, it was almost (but not completely) a polly like situation. He was so intertwined with our family, and E with his. But this flimsy cover stories for both.

Sounds like Matt and Jamiee are practically at the stage too. It’s hard to untangle that emotional spaghetti.

For us, the conversation with my wife was hard. I’m not proud nor pleased at how I handled things. I don’t apportion blame to anyone but myself here.

I ended up coming here for advice. Many of the commentators highlighted the need for me to fight for my family and keeping it together. So, I did. It wasn’t a pleasant experience.

I ended up playing out how co-parenting would work in practice with my wife, explaining that this would not be a smooth transition. That if she chose this path, then I’d as hard as I could for the kids, my rights as a father. There was a lot of harsh words, a I guess hard truths - the naked reality of marital separation and all the raw unbridled heart ache that goes with that. If there was a lever I could find, I pulled it. Even ones that resulting in “low blows”. I hate myself for some of what was said, and for the sake of the marriage and my family I take the blame for encouraging my wife to arrive at this scenario in the first place.

While we are out of it now, it’s left its wounds behind. After R she did engage with other men, and I think that was good - a distraction too. However E has had, and I think it’s lifting as time goes on, a lingering sense of guilt for being away from our kids. And she’s also had a hard time imagining getting involved with anyone else. I don’t blame her at all.

Things continue to improve, which is great - I’m very thankful for that.

I think for Ky, Jamiee is wired differently than my wife, so I’m hopeful Ky can navigate this one without the wounds. I just know it’s not fun.

[David52]

Mick. I get what you are saying, but decisions are made along the way. Like inviting your married girlfriend for an intimate, long family weekend likely attended by Matt's children, siblings, and parents. Could Matt and Jamiee be thinking of coming out? Jamiee seems to be growing tired of the secrecy and drama. There is just so much more at stake here for Matt. I wonder what Matt is thinking...

[veub]

Mick. I get what you are saying, but decisions are made along the way. Like inviting your married girlfriend for an intimate, long family weekend likely attended by Matt's children, siblings, and parents. Could Matt and Jamiee be thinking of coming out? Jamiee seems to be growing tired of the secrecy and drama. There is just so much more at stake here for Matt. I wonder what Matt is thinking...

Who else is to to come out to? Everybody, except possibly Ky's parents, already know.