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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:26 pm 
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So I am now through page 5 and I will comment some more. Again this is only based upon what I know to this point.

Jenn, you are a very very lucky woman to have a man like Rob. I doubt I could have ever come back from the disrespect and absolute degradation of your husband if it had been me. It is probably very lucky he never found out until later so it wasn't an immediate ramification to Rob. It was the past.

Jenn, I am so disappointed that you went back to Marc after you ran back to your husband that one week. You knew in your heart who your rock was but he ultimately couldn't help you because you were not honest with him. You knew deep down who had your best interest in mind. The honesty and communicaction has certainly been corrected today and is the lesson everyone should learn from this story.

You were in the hands of a sexual predator. That is clear. He "made" you do things you did not want while making you think you wanted it. He did this for his pleasure not yours. I really hope you know that today. Marc is a disgusting human being.

It is so very clear that you were so very very immature to have let this happen but I also understand because you had nobody to give you real support. You were very reckless. Rob was encouraging you based on totally false and deceitful information. It sounds as if your parents weren't supportive of your music or choice either. You succumbed to someone you thought of as a mentor who turned out to be pond scum.

Rob, you should be ashamed of yourself for not being at Jenn's recital. This was her culmination of everything she had worked for. No job or work is that important that you couldn't have been there for her. It almost cost you your marriage and I hope others reading this have learned from your lesson. Also, you knew something was wrong yet did nothing and did not respond in any way. I know that you too where immature at that time but you do realize the price you almost paid.

This is such an an amazing story and you Jenn are an excellent story teller. Absolutely amazing. You should be so very proud of yourself for telling this story first, and second for telling it so well. It is at the same time very depressing but also very very heart warming.

To those who say we owe Marc something get real. It all turned out well in spite of his predatory actions. Jenn and Rob are so very lucky.

Knowing that this did actually work out I am in absolute awe of both of you. What the two of you persevered and worked through is amazing and I bet you are one hellava lot better for having gone through it and won than not at all. I ultimately have nothing but respect for the two of you at the end of the day.

I want to be clear. Some of my words here sound like admonishment but they are only admonishments for things in the last to be forgotten. I have only love for the two of you because of where you are today. Now I need to get back and finish the story. Thank you and God bless you for sharing this tale with us.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:36 pm 
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lannontom wrote:
Righteous wrote:
Quote:
You are an easy guy to root for, Rob. I generally like reading stories here because human nature interests me and this is compelling stuff. With that said, this is one of the most compelling stories here and (I'm being completely honest) - you come across as so nice and genuine that I find myself reading these getting pissed at o(who sounds lovely and a loving wife) so I can only imagine what kind of internal resolve you must have had to not give up on the marriage. It has left an impression on me and I've considered it in daily life more than once.


Thanks for the compliments!

The final bit of the story will clarify things a lot. Our success is all about communicating honestly. It also helped that, despite what Jenn got herself involved in, we still had a deep connection. If I hadn't been so far away and so busy in my new job, things would have transpired very differently. Also, if I'd been honest about my fascination with thinking about her with other men, things would have been very different and possibly gone in another direction. She was addicted, purely and simply, and once away from the source of her addiction, she began to "recover" (if that's the right word).

My wife is a very strong person in many ways. People see her as exceptionally capable at a multitude of things and always in control. Marc made it possible for her to completely give up that tight control she always kept herself under. And she discovered things about herself that profoundly changed her. In the end, we both benefited mightily from her affair.

But we were also lucky. If I'd found out about it a different way (from a friend or something), it would probably have ended our marriage. The fact that she told me meant a lot -- even if the revelation began through a slip she made.

Anyway, better to finish the story off and then get into discussions about it, right? I don't know when the last bit will be posted. We're both exceptionally busy at the moment. It took a lot of convincing for Jenn to reveal that last part since it was so completely over the top and she's such a private person. (I still can't wrap my head around that table Marc borrowed, but that's part of the final bit, ie: where it really came from and why. And I wonder what ever happened to it since I'm sure it still exists.)

So, for everyone, more to come. Maybe I can talk Jenn into at least coming on to answer questions. She flatly refuses to join the site. Sigh... She could help people a lot.

Yeah this part of it really fills me with a lot of sadness.  On one hand what she did was one of the most awful things that I've ever read someone do to someone that they love.  The reason I find it so awful is that through her writing I believe that she always possessed the capability of determining right and wrong.  You may call it addition (and it may have been...to a degree) but she's not some idiot.  Every time she fucked Marc she could have and did have the capability of just saying 'no' and just doing the right thing which would be either leaving him or just breaking it off with you.  Humans try to explain away compulsive behavior as anything but conscious but it's really just a tough decision that people keep getting wrong.

She was a coward and that is what makes me incredibly sad.  She reads as an inherently good person and the sad tragedy is that there is a good person, who upon her deathbed, will be reflecting of life with a measure of sadness because of what she did to you.  Such a tragic penalty is something Shakespeare couldn't have written better, it is truly a caution that good people are capable of doing horrible things and that it's their own good which will ultimately serve to be the greatest punishment.


lannontom,

I agree with a lot of what you say here but keep in mind that she was in the hands of a very very skilled sexual predator who had his sights on a very beautiful but young immature naive girl. She was all by her self and certainly fell for his bullshit. I hope that she will not have any regrets or sadness on her deathbed for what happen here. It has been overcome in spades and should be put in the past. Jenn has paid the price for her actions. She needs to reflect on all the good that came from this... Not the bad.

I don't see her as a coward. Yes she was an inherently good person who was masterfully manipulated by a scum sucking ass. I can't blame her for that. Would I do do however is congratulate her for eventually overcoming this and having the courage to share this with all of us. Jen and Rob should have nothing but good feelings for how this ended.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:46 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
Quote:
Yeah this part of it really fills me with a lot of sadness. On one hand what she did was one of the most awful things that I've ever read someone do to someone that they love. The reason I find it so awful is that through her writing I believe that she always possessed the capability of determining right and wrong. You may call it addition (and it may have been...to a degree) but she's not some idiot. Every time she fucked Marc she could have and did have the capability of just saying 'no' and just doing the right thing which would be either leaving him or just breaking it off with you. Humans try to explain away compulsive behavior as anything but conscious but it's really just a tough decision that people keep getting wrong.

She was a coward and that is what makes me incredibly sad. She reads as an inherently good person and the sad tragedy is that there is a good person, who upon her deathbed, will be reflecting of life with a measure of sadness because of what she did to you. Such a tragic penalty is something Shakespeare couldn't have written better, it is truly a caution that good people are capable of doing horrible things and that it's their own good which will ultimately serve to be the greatest punishment.


I'm not being the loyal husband here, nor am I thinking like a cuckold (although, I guess I am in the strict sense of the term), but this is a considered point of view and I'd like to address it.

You would get no flak from my wife over what you're saying. She agrees that she could have stopped it and should have stopped it -- or come to me a hell of a lot sooner. She didn't. She regrets that. But truth be told, she was addicted to her experiences with Marc. Many times she tried to break it off, and just couldn't do it. Was it cowardess? Yeah, I think so. For one thing she had no idea how to break the whole thing to me. Second, regardless of the hold Marc was gaining over her, there was something between us that was equally difficult to give up. Rather than come to a very tough decision, she just let the thing ride.

I've said to someone here privately that Jennifer was reinventing herself, finding out that what she'd been taught as a child (mostly by her mother and maternal grandmother) was a crock of shit. She really wanted to see that through to the end. Could she have accomplished that with me? Personally, I don't think so. Before Marc, any change in the bedroom was met out of hand with a "No!" That was because our relationship began when she was too close to her mother's point of view and certainly not ready to step beyond it. With Marc, who didn't know anything of her background, she didn't have to say no because of the way she was brought up. She could go with the flow, and Marc seldom did anything that she didn't enjoy the hell out of.

On the other hand, she was horribly conflicted about what she was doing to our relationship. And that's also why she held on to this last bit of information for so long before revealing it.

Once I came to terms with the fact that she'd done all of the things in the year we lived apart, I had to look at the basis of why we fell in love and wanted to be together. Those things were still there, intact, and was an underlying factor in her finding it so difficult to not cut herself loose from our marriage. She loved me in a different way than she ever could with Marc. She was madly in lust with him. On a deeper level, she just didn't have the same connection with him.

Since then, our life together has been wonderful. She still says it's more than she deserves. I hope that on her deathbed she regrets nothing. I won't.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.


Rob you are truly a one of a kind guy and Jenn is a one of a kind gal. So so lucky you found each other. Your perspective on this is so right with one exception. You could have accomplished her sexual release together. It would have just taking a lot longer and been a much more difficult road to hoe in its own way. Marc was only one path but a path that caused much more pain than necessary because you weren't along for the ride with her. He was a piece of crap human being who got his hands on your wife that ultimately turned out as a positive for the two of you. That is a miracle. For most others it would have been a disaster and if that had happened Jenn very very much would have regretted it till the day she died and would have had much sadness reflecting back on her death bed.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
nonethewiser wrote:
Mrfixitforyou wrote:
Interesting observation that she may have rejected marc and not really had chosen her husband. So in your mind did the love re-kindle? or did she settle for the safe relationship. I think that once confronted with the truth, faced with the possible consequences, knowing how much she would hurt her husband all helped her make the decision she chose. Big among those consequences the age difference and the possibility of being passed around like meat without emotional involvement at a time in her life when she would need love, sex, commitment.



My take: at that stage in her life, she was very selfish. Maybe not completely consciously( though certainly she was cognizant of it). So she made decisions for her self interest, not for others. The fear of ostracization was about her, not Rob; the concern about Marc's age was about her, not Rob; the possibility of getting dumped was about her, not Rob. Now, she may have rationalized that she couldn't hurt Rob, but that's just a rationalization. She could have and would have hurt him if it had suited her. It didn't. Did some of the catalysts that were mentioned (the party, the teacher, distance from Marc) help her realize what was potentially bad for her? Sure. But it was -as I read it- still a very selfish woman.

But, and I mean this completely, things sometime happen for strange -even bad- reasons that work out well. She did stay with Rob, she did learn to appreciate him and how he made her better, she did learn from her mistake (and not just sexually). Steve Jobs said in his commencement address at Stanford that " you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. ". So, for Jenn and Rob, the dots do connect looking back. But it couldn't have been known at the time. I agree with XLE: they were lucky.


One reason I didn't want my husband to post the end of the story was because I am still incredibly ashamed of my behaviour. You're absolutely right: I was being unforgivably selfish. I could come up with all kinds of justifications and rationalizations of why I did what I did, but they would just be skirting the issue.

The funny thing is, I've never been a particularly selfish person — other than during that one year. I was the younger sister, the one who always pitched in and helped, the one who could be counted on, and then Marc came along and I completely did a 180. When I first got back from Montreal, it was still about me, but I think that was the poison working out of my system. I had these two diametrically opposed people inside my head and I had to figure out how they could come together as one (sort of) rational person. Marc had made me forget how good I was with my husband and how good he was with me. I was addicted. I was not rational. The party and my teacher's words made me take a breath and start thinking with my brain again rather than my sex organs. As I came back down to earth, I was shocked to realize how far to the stupid side of the spectrum I'd gone. I thank my lucky stars every single day that I woke up in time.

Jenn

And I'd like to add in her defense that my incredible wife beat herself up horribly for years over what she'd done. To her mind, the greatest sex in the world can never make up for what she'd done and how she went about it. I wound up spending a lot of my time comforting her -- which is pretty funny to us now. Allow me to say that other than that one period, Jennifer is a loving, caring, generous, sensitive, funny and wonderful person. She has never once let me down since and has gone incredibly out of her way to make it up to me. You can learn and change.

We were (and are) very lucky. We never go to sleep without saying how much we love each other -- because we mean it.

Rob


Jenn,
There is nothing to be ashamed of. Look at where you are and what you have accomplished. You should be proud of yourself. You overcame. You were targeted by a sexual predator and that is clear;y obvious by the discussion you had with your teacher. I still don't think you have come to terms with that. There should be no thankfulness, no gratitude, nothing but contempt for an ass like Marc. He was selfish and lead you to be selfish. That is arrest danger in this lifestyle. The marriage comes first. The husband and wife are second to that. They are second to each other.

You persevered and conquered. You have a lot to be proud of. No shame. Please remember that and don't ever let this get you down. Always remember but never let it get you down. It has made you who,you are today and the fact that you know how lucky you are makes it still work. I hope that Rob feels as lucky and gives back as much as you give to him.

You are a great story teller and I cannot tell you what great pleasure this story gave me to read while at the same time ripping my heart out. I am sucker for happy endings and thank god you had one.

I wish that you and Rob were a part of my life. It would be so interesting to know you and see you after this story. Congratulations and thank you for sharing. You are truly special but also lucky to,have Rob.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
nonethewiser wrote:
Timing?

When this story first started I thought Rob said it was a year after Jenn was back that he learned the truth. I just checked back and that is what he wrote.

But Rob just wrote it was four months. Did you remember it wrong before you started getting into retelling it?

Interested in the psychology that gets you to misremember that.

Once again, amazing tale and I think you guys are very fortunate in how things worked out and I am happy for you.


It was indeed only four months. My memory (after now 22 years) was that we'd had the party the Labour Day following her return from Montreal. Jennifer, carrying the weight of a secret that large, informed me when she looked back at the post that it was only four months, and I think in this case she would have the better memory than I do on this. Actually, her real answer was a huge eye roll and a "How can you not remember something that important?"

Hell, I can't even remember what she gave me for my birthday 5 months ago!


That's cause your getting old dude!!! :mrgreen:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:04 pm 
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xleglover wrote:
I can definitely understand how Jenn lost herself in Marc and lost her grounding. I see how that can happen through a combination of events, primarily being away from you.

In my case, my wife Jen "cheated" on me once, when we first started going out. I use quotes because it wasn't really cheating, as we were at the point of our relationship where it was fuzzy if we were exclusive. She hung out with old bf (I knew about it and approved because I was trying to be the understanding new bf). What I didn't realize (stupidly) was the sexual attraction they had for each other. So one time they fucked and when she came home to me she was full of him. Jen didn't tell me this until years later, after we were married.

So I get how a person can get caught up in it. I write stories about my wife, but we have never played the game for real (ie, no oral sex or sexual intercourse). I'm not sure if I would have the guts to really share my wife with another man. But we've never gotten that far because of Jen. The one time we got the closest, she backed out because she was afraid that if we started she would have a hard time stopping. She's very sexual, her sex drive has always been higher than mine. She was afraid she might like it to much. It would be like a slippery slope. Once she broke our marriage vows, she might not be able to resist. It was especially dangerous for us because the man we were thinking about was a friend. Jen was (and still is) close to him. Jen was (and still is) physically attracted to him. She was afraid if their relationship turned physical, it could hurt our marriage.

He is a nice looking guy (like a GQ model), and he is well endowed. How do we know this? Through his wife (girls talk). But he and his wife broke up right around this time, so he was available. So you see it was like the perfect storm. Very dangerous. But also so much a turn on. I've written elements of this in many of my stories.

Rob, it would be like you encouraging Jenn to be with another man. You've told us you shared Jenn with one of your friends. Can you tell us more about that? Did Jenn enjoy it? Did you consider continuing the relationship with him or another lover?


The orange highlight above. Been there done that and trying to be understanding is just stupid. It is seen as a weakness and you end up getting run over.

I am sorry that your wife doesn't get to explore her sexuality to it's fullest. But the two of you know each other better than anybody else so your decision is the correct one. It is far better to never step over the line if you are not sure you can come back. That is very very wise.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:40 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
Jennifer here.

Wow Jennifer. This very very powerful.

Thank the two posters above for your very detailed analysis and thoughts on what happened to me. Outside of what some of the thoughts going through my head were at the time, I haven’t said much about the perspective I’ve gained through the years about what happened.

First of all, I should say there is a secondary feature to my description of what happened between Marc and me. It started out as a way to gain some distance and allow me to tell my husband what happened. He and the professional who helped us came up with the idea of writing it out since I was having so much trouble talking about it. Written words are a way of stepping back from the situation and being slightly more objective and dispassionate. That’s how it started out.

Almost immediately, though, it was obvious that what I was telling Robby in my written account was turning him on big time. One night about 1/4 of the way through the story, I handed him the laptop and asked if he wanted to read the just-finished section. (We were in bed and it was summer, so no covers.) I watched in amazement as his cock began to harden until he was about as erect as I’d ever seen it and it stayed that way the entire time he read. When he was finished, I was ready with some lube, sat between his legs and started teasing him with my hands, while asking questions about what turned him on so much.

His responses were enlightening (and the outcome very enjoyable for both of us), so I began to realize that he might have even been onboard with Marc (at least somewhat) if I’d told him about my attraction to this new man right at the beginning.

From then on, I wrote the accounts with a much more erotic feel to them. I came to enjoy writing so graphically. It was a big turn-on for me, too, so what you folks have read reflects the fact that most of the account originally (and certainly now after the current rewrite) were meant to turn us both on.

But as to the very thought-filled post by the gentleman quoted above, I was completely swamped by the whole experience with Marc. I don’t I know I do not come off very well. I was the height of selfishness, completely focused only on myself.

He came into my life at a very strange time. I was married and only weeks later found myself teaching at a music camp. Anyone who’s spent a summer on the staff of a sleep-away camp knows what a hothouse atmosphere it usually has. I didn’t relate to any of the other younger people. They wanted to drink and party all the time. Marc (and the other members of his quartet) were a lot older and light years more sophisticated. I was drawn to them. They were doing what I wanted to do, ie: playing music and being successful at it. I hung out with them. I know there was talk among the staff how I was their “party girl”, but they were all complete gentlemen. Then, one night, Marc kissed me, and everything changed.

After that first time Marc took me on his sofa, I sort of went insane. Up until then, I’d had this pretty detailed fantasy world in my head, but had been too scared and repressed to act on it. When I was horny, I’d sneak looks at naughty magazines and read all the letter in Penthouse, stuff like that. Then, after I’d given myself an orgasm, I’d be swamped by self-loathing for what I’d done and thought. When I was twelve (the age at which I masturbated for the first time), I was sure I’d be going straight to hell. A year later, my mother barged into my room and caught me in the act and the shit-storm that followed was unbelievable. But it didn’t stop me. Within six months, I was at it again — just way more careful!

When I got serious with Robby, my mother and grandmother sat me down to tell me their expectations about the way I should behave. I hadn’t dated much in high school (too focused on music and a bit afraid of boys because of what had been told to me about them). They expected me to be a virgin until my marriage night (too late) and while I could kiss Robby, under no circumstances was he to touch me intimately (too late again) because “All he will want is more,” and “If you want your husband to respect you, you must act like a lady at all times.” The night before my wedding, they told me the way “the ladies in our family behave with their husbands in the bedroom”. While they did acknowledge that husbands might have needs that don’t directly have to do with procreation, I must remain dignified: only in bed and preferably in the dark, no dirty talk, missionary position (“the way God meant for humans to procreate”) and no oral sex (“You wouldn’t want the lips that you use to kiss your baby be the same ones that kissed a man’s penis, would you?”) You can see why I was as messed up as I was.

Isn't it shame that our parents screwed up our sex lives. There is nothing wrong with sex... As long as it is not with animals or children. If both parties enjoy it then it is good. God made it pleasure an,e for a reason.

Then Marc came along. All my sexual fantasies were within reach, and because I had no history with him (as I did with Robby), I could just let myself go and experience them all — and then some. As to what I was doing to my marriage, happygirl is correct, I rationalized and self-justified what I was doing into oblivion. It’s easy to see now (and laughable) how stupid it was. My relationship with Marc did have a logic of its own.

I often say that as much as I want to be able to fully communicate with my spouse it is far easier to say and share things with friends or strangers. You are always concerned that you spouse will be judgmental so the safe play is to not share your true sexuality. With a stranger who cares. If they walk away then nothing too great is lost and your life continues.

She’s also right about that one boundary (never staying with Marc overnight — except that weekend in the chalet). I think now it may have saved me. It was the last vestige of normalcy in my life and I clung to it very hard. It was like that final step away from my marriage that I couldn’t bring myself to take. If I had begun staying overnight with Marc, I know I wouldn’t have taken long before I moved in with him full-time, and my marriage would have been over. I would have taken the low road and simply called Robby up to tell him.

The comments bubbajack makes about music study and musicians is really bang on. I was sort of practising with Marc in the same way I practised violin and made music. To be successful, you have to have a “take no prisoners” attitude. Marc had that in spades, and that is one of the very desirable things that attracted me to him. He had the superior sex technique, but he certainly “played” me in bed, as I sometimes did with him. It’s not really in the story, but I sometimes teased him unmercifully with my body. We’d be watching a video in his living room and I’d open my jeans and slide my hands into my panties and slowly masturbate. It drove him nuts. Robby loves when I do the same thing to him.

Really, I became a woman with Marc. He showed me how mind-blowing sex could be. Once my secret was out, I did the same with Robby. Nearly everything I did at the hands of Marc, I’ve done with my darling husband probably hundreds of times over the years. Until our kids came along, we had sex every day. Marc showed me things I could scarcely believe and made me want total mastery over my sexual self as I did with my musical self, bubbajack. The problem is that it nearly swallowed me alive. Sometimes Marc could take me to a place that was very like nirvana. I occasionally get to visit the same place when the stars aline and I play as well as I can. It is a very addicting experience.

I think you were always a woman or you would never have had the thoughts to do what you did sexually. He just was they key to the door that allowed you to open up even though he did it for all of the wrong reasons.

What doesn’t come across in the relating of what happened to me is that I am a very moral person. While I don’t go to church anymore, I think I am religious in my own way. At the very least I now I try to live the “golden rule” (Do no harm; help all people).

I think everything you have said shows you to be a moral person. If you weren't you would never have had the discomfort of what was happening behind Rob's back and wouldn't have given to craps about hurting him. Religious? People of faith would say that this lifestyle is wrong. My religion would tell me the same. I say that if it is what two people decide between them then it is there business. They only have to answer to God. Not to others. My religion is what is in my heart. What is right for me is not right for others so just be comfortable in what you have in your heart. That is all that matters.

In closing, I married the right man, and then when I was given a second chance, I made the right decision to stay with him. I bet their isn’t one in a thousand husbands who would have stuck with me. When I blurted out my secret on that awful night, I fully expected to be booted out — literally. Robby left in the car and drove around for several hours while I cowered at home and packed my belongings. Then he came back, sat me down and we talked for nearly 12 hours straight. He did scream at me, but that was the only time. I wonder how many times I said I’m sorry, and felt that the words were as hollow as could be. I would gladly lay down my life for my husband. He is so special and I wake up every morning so thankful that he entered my life and didn’t leave at its darkest hour. I could not imagine anyone better than he.

Yes you did and I think he married the right woman. Keeping the secret after it was over was not the problem. It was done for a noble reason. The problem is the burden you were carrying and how it was eating you up inside. It would have been easier on you to just have left to get over the guilt you were feeling. I think eventually you would have imploded so it is good that it came out when it did.

Thanks for the comments, and if you got this far, thanks for allowing me to ventilate.

No. Thank you for sharing.

—Jennifer


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
To the previous two posters:

You're making me blush!

You're also too generous, Iannontom. When I was 25, I was a complete idiot. You know, if I'd been more balanced, I could have gone over to Marc's every once in a while, gotten my rocks off with him, and probably would have been able to tell Robby what was going on. When Marc pushed in between my legs, he must have shut something off in my head (maybe there's an on/off switch down there or something!) because I went insane. That's the way I view it. I had to be insane to risk everything that was really important just to get the crap fucked out of me (sorry for being so blunt, but my actions warrant it). Self-awareness came much later when I'd calmed down and the whole thing with Marc had gone completely cold -- and that self-awareness was very hard won.

Jenn, most of us are idiots at 25. I certainly was. So no worries.

As for recordings, there are some, but it would reveal way more than I am able to reveal. My lot in life is too public. Robby has been very careful to disguise things and it's just too great a risk. For instance, I can't imagine what would happen if my daughter or son were to somehow stumble across information about their mommy's past. I may wind up telling them a bit of it someday if it would be advantageous to them to know, but never the whole story! The Internet is pretty permanent in that regard. My cousin and her husband got burned big time with some photos they posted which were really rather innocent.

I certainly respect how you feel but it would still be nice to find a way to know you in a more personal way. What you have shared with us is tremendously intimate and very very appreciated. We all love you like a sister and for that reason we want to know you personally.

As far as your public lot in life goes... Unless you are in politics it wouldn't amount to much of a hill of beans. It would be just a small road bump. I think what you overcame and where you are today should be revered. It took far better people to get where you are today than what most people have in them. You made mistakes in your youth and overcame them to make your life better. That is commendable. Not something to be hidden. But I do understand and respect your feelings on the matter.

As far as the kids go I think when the time is right they need to be told to some extent. The story is too important and educational for all the suffering you went through to not benefit your own children. They know as the loving people you are today and it will amaze them even more to know how you got here. Or course only you and Rob will know when the time is right
.

But thanks for asking!

Hugs,
Jennifer


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:17 am 
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Dear Jenn,

I just think you are fabulous in every way imaginable! :)

Every good wish,

54321


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:50 am 
Experienced

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Thanks to everyone who has commented, saying they've gotten something out of what Jenn –- and I, to some extent –– have written. We hope it's also been of help.

Rob and Jennifer

_________________
It's true what they say about redheads…
The recounting of my wife's university affair: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28088
And what has happened more recently: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30613


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:16 pm 
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Righteous wrote:
Thanks to everyone who has commented, saying they've gotten something out of what Jenn –- and I, to some extent –– have written. We hope it's also been of help.

Rob and Jennifer


Rob and Jenn.

It has been fantastic. Thank you so much.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Hotwifeok's critique of the moral/ethical character of the participants in the Marc/Jennifer affair of long ago is well worth thinking about.

On the one hand, the specific activities were indeed risky to the complex system of relations with others and the whole social order - the marriage, the musical careers, the orchestra, the society which tends to want fine music and not lowbrow soap opera in those institutions (there's plenty of that in the popular music world, which is where folks tend to look for it :cool: ).

On the other hand, these were important explorations in self-discovery for a person who evidently has natural talent for deeply intensive sexual experience. This talent is no more or less a "given" for her than is her natural talent for violin-playing, which also, even for the most gifted young players, requires intensive cultivation of technical and artistic expressive capacities if the levels which are potentially reachable are ever to be attained. A good violin teacher, believe me, makes demands which cannot easily be satisfied without sweeping a number of "ordinary" aspects of young social and intellectual and intimate life into the background, if not eliminating them altogether, at least for the years when you are building your technique and repertoire.

So, it turns out, she came back from Montreal to Rob with improved prospects for her musical career and with new abilities to drain his balls in delightful ways that he never even
knew existed, let alone could have helped her to learn. It was not in his interests, nor certainly in hers, for him to demand to be "respected" while she refined her skills - sexual or musical. This is all in retrospect to be sure, but I wonder if there was not a latent, but effective, sense of this operating within their relationship.

In other words, it does seem that Rob's respect for himself - and for her - was based on something far stronger than whether she demonstrated respect for him in all her actions. And anyway, how should she have done that?

Great great thread - thank you all so much. :D

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Thanks, Bubbajack.

Very thoughtful perspective, as usual!

If this were the end of the story, your's would be the perfect apostrophe, but I suspect there will be more to this story with time.

Cheers, Jim


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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:26 am 
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Hi.
Hans from Norway here.
I have read some golden stories here in this forum and this story is one of them.
I really enjoyed the story.

I must say I was shocked then I read the gangbang section in the last chapters,
but it was most like a part of the sexual development she went through.

Yes, I like to think about women as faithful and nice.
And I of course love to read how slutty them get with other men.
Being married (and for those also being a mother) just heightens the level of interest for me.

Robby, this is pure gold.
I am still shocked (and horny like hell) after reading through all chapters.

But, thanks for sharing. :)

_________________
From Norway...
The land of the fjords and the midnight sun...


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Holy cow! I can't believe I missed this one when it was being posted. What an incredible journey. This leaves so much to think about. It is a veritable feast for thought. Now I'm off to read the newer updates on Jenn and Rob's lives.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Quote:
Especially with Marc, it was all about feeling helpless. That was the really big turn-on for her. It never has worked quite as well with me because she's more sure of my intentions than she ever was with Marc -- and that provided the extra kick for her.


But of course, it wasn't just Marc. The helplessness was exacerbated by the fact that Marc was going to ensure that she was going to be gang banged by who knows whom as she lay there exposed and blindfolded. Perhaps you might constrain her in this way and then surprise her with an unexpected lover... or two... or more ;)

54321


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Rob and Jennifer, what an incredibly Hot and erotic story......heartbreaking at times, Joyous at times and a wonderful ending......thanks again for sharing all of you thoughts and feeling of your awesome journey...and So well written.....All the best to you both and much success in the future...Cheers


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:43 am 
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Our whole relationship rested on a knife edge when Jenn returned from Montreal. We were very lucky. I was very lucky. Her revelation about being with Marc (just the revelation, not the details -- which came later) were like a kick in the gut. I went away for a few days early on to try to pull my thoughts together. Typical of many of us here, I was horrified and turned on in nearly equal amounts. It was during my second day away on a long walk on the Bruce Trail that I suddenly realized that Jenn had NOT stayed with Marc but had come home to me. Did I still love her? Could I manage to get over this betrayal? Suddenly, I was worried that she had decided our relationship wasn't worthwhile and had hopped the train back to Montreal. You can't imagine my relief when she answered the phone at our place. We talked for many hours, honestly and started to pull ourselves together. It was a hard process.

Now, more than 20 years down the line, we realize that Marc was basically a good thing, for Jennifer first and foremost but also for our relationship. She was so fundamentally changed and her newfound delight in all things sexual was far more than I had ever hoped for. (And that's not mentioning her knowledge and skill level!)

But we both know how lucky we were to dodge a very dangerous bullet.

Thanks for the recent comments. Glad if we helped in some small way. Jenn says "Hi!" to everyone here.

_________________
It's true what they say about redheads…
The recounting of my wife's university affair: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28088
And what has happened more recently: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30613


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:53 pm 
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You know what they say...

That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That certainly sounds like where you are at 20 years later. I love a happy ending!


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:26 am 
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Hotwifeok wrote:
You know what they say...

That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That certainly sounds like where you are at 20 years later. I love a happy ending!


Thanks! We were damned lucky and we know it.

Rob

_________________
It's true what they say about redheads…
The recounting of my wife's university affair: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28088
And what has happened more recently: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30613


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:24 pm
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We were cleaning up our basement recently and I found a tape cassette I’d believed had been lost during one of our moves over the years.

When it first came out that my wife had taken a lover during a year we had to live apart as she finished school in another city, I pretty well freaked out for a few months (and Jenn was chewed up by her conscience for several years). It was a lot for me to process and our marriage hung in the balance. This is all detailed in the previous pages of this thread.

What makes the contents of this newly-found cassette interesting is that it was made maybe in the first week after my wife and I began actually talking frankly about her affair (no secrets/full disclosure). I recorded it secretly, though, and it’s about her first time making love to Marc. Now the interesting part is that it differs in some significant ways from what she actually wrote out for me (and which appears on the first page of this thread).

Some further background: Jenn began writing about her experiences because she found it less “distressing” than me “interviewing” her about what happened, something she found hard to do. Because she’d already told me about the first time and I recorded it (she didn’t know that, though), that first time wasn’t part of the written record originally. She only wrote down the account of her first time with Marc (at my request) a few years later (maybe 5 or 6?) so I would have a fully complete written account. However, time and tide had clouded her memory resulting in changes to what actually happened. Since I had that first confession on tape, I knew that details had changed, but didn’t say much because I knew she’d be pissed that I’d recorded it secretly in the first place (although I eventually owned up). Then the cassette disappeared until recently.

We both listened to it last week (Jenn for the first time) and her feeling is that this account is more accurate than her later written account, and is much more accurate in describing the way she was feeling — and interestingly — in the way Marc behaved. In other words, he comes off better and more gentlemanly. He wanted her, made his intentions clearly known, but left the decision completely up to her.

It’s also a hell of a lot more visceral. When she was recorded, I’d told Jenn I wanted the unvarnished truth, that she owed it to me after what she’d done. So being the (usually) forthright person she is — and after getting assurances from me that I wouldn’t hold anything she said against her — she let it all hang out. By the way, questions in italics are ones I asked while she was telling me the story.

I decided I wanted to share the “real” story with everyone here so the complete and actual picture of how this affair started and my wife’s state of mind is known to anyone who has read (and commented on) this thread. Jennifer read the following transcription of the tape (I cut out a few unnecessary side comments and identifiers — with names changed to protect the guilty!) and gave it her thumbs-up to post. “If anyone is interested after all this time.”

About Jennifer and Marc’s first time making love: 

"Marc invited me out to dinner on a Saturday evening in late September or early October. I forget which, but it was near the start of the school year. We’d already seen each other a couple of times since I’d returned to Montreal. The plan that night was to meet at his apartment. When I got there, he invited me in for a few minutes. White wine was poured and we talked a bit (in French), trying to decide where we’d eat, how our weeks had been, idle chit chat.

“Then, out of nowhere, Marc leaned over and kissed me. It was very much like that first time in his car during the summer, really a total surprise.

I was on his left and his arm was behind me on the back of the sofa. He just turned and his lips were on mine. The passion was clear, same as the first time, but his kiss wasn't over the top. It lasted maybe 5 or 6 seconds. Then he pulled away and silently looked at me, making it clear the decision to continue was mine.

"I had fantasized about this happening again ever since the summer, but it had just been that until now: a fantasy. The guys in Marc’s quartet had assumed we were already lovers, Marc and I were together so much (and he hadn’t discouraged their suspicions, either, with a few leading comments to them in my presence), so it's not as if I was shocked he’d kissed me again – or that his kiss was unwelcome. But it was crystal clear where this would lead if we continued. During the summer, one of the things that had caused me to hold back was the lack of privacy. That was no longer an issue.

“Almost without consciously reaching a decision, I pulled his head to mine, kissing him this time. It quickly got very heated.

“First, I was having trouble processing things. I couldn’t believe I was actually doing this. Second was how erotic and enjoyable these kisses were. Since we’d met I’d been wondering about what it would feel like to be with a different lover. That’s one of the things that made me return his kiss that evening: curiosity.

“I also knew that by kissing him back, I would have to take this to completion. I wasn’t a virgin, some high school girl who would lead Marc on and then call a halt. I realized I’d wanted to do this for a long time, certainly going back to the summer. Now it was going to happen. That really inflamed my desire.”

“Had you masturbated thinking about something like this, you know, before that night?”

“Yes. I did.”

“A lot?”

“Well, yes.”

“So this should have been no surprise.”

“I guess I’d been hoping it would happen. And I knew I didn’t want to stop.

“Marc’s kisses were different – have I mentioned that he was a very good kisser? – but what would his touches feel like? What would it feel like having him inside me?

“Pretty soon his hand slipped down onto my shoulder and he pulled me closer. We were rubbing each other’s chests. It felt natural – and good. Marc was rubbing the top of my chest and the space between my breasts, not taking things fast. When I didn’t object his hand drifted lightly across my left breast, not doing anything more than a tease at first. Again he was gauging my reaction. My kisses must have told him I wasn’t having any problems, so he slid his hand onto my breast again and began playing with my very hard nipple.

“When he began doing that, I couldn’t stop the moan that slipped out. Marc then helped me pull the two straps of my leotard over my arms after which he slid it down until both my breasts were exposed. As he bent over to take first one nipple and then the other into his mouth, I touched his crotch for the first time. He was already hard and felt pretty large – and that excited me.

“Before long – as he continued sucking on my nipples – he slipped one hand through the slit in my brown, India-print wraparound skirt [I remember it well.] and began stroking my thighs. I opened my legs wider to allow him better access. My leotard had snaps between the legs and they got opened soon after. Marc’s exploring fingers pushed my panties to the side.

“I was already very wet and his fingers felt so good as he explored my most private place, slipping one and then two fingers inside me and teasing between my lips. He had to be aware I was aching for an orgasm. (Maybe I even said something, I don’t remember.) He quickly and expertly gave me what I needed. I’ve seldom orgasmed more violently. I don’t remember crying out, but Marc teased me later about hoping the neighbours wouldn’t complain. While I came down from that high, he continued gently kissing me.

“As soon as I’d caught my breath, I got up and removed my clothes, then laid sideways on his sofa with my right leg up over the back and my left foot on the floor, everything on display.”

“That was pretty brazen.”

“I really wanted him by that point. I was completely ready. My thoughts were in an uproar, though. We were going to make love. It would be an irrevocable step. At the same time, I was consumed by wanting to know how having Marc’s cock inside would actually feel. His would be only the second “real cock” I’d experience.

“As I watched him remove his clothes, I was apprehensive. When Marc’s cock appeared it very hard and stood straight out. He was clearly longer than you and the shaft was fatter. The head was really large and a darker, more purple colour. I thought his cock was beautiful, very masculine and powerful.”

“Was he circumcised?”

“Yes.

“He got settled between my legs and we kissed a few more times, lovely, hot ones. No words were spoken. I could feel his cock resting against my vulva. Finally Marc reached down, got the head of his cock moist with my juices, and gently pushed forward until the head popped in.

“It felt really big. We kissed some more before he eased forward a bit again. Over the next minute or so he worked more and more of his length in, but slowly and gently. He was up on his hands, holding his body above mine so he could watch my reaction because he wanted to be sure I was okay with what we were doing and how it was feeling.”

“He was having trouble getting his cock into you?”

“Sort of. I was certainly very wet, so that wasn’t the problem. Marc was always a considerate lover. The first few times we made love, he entered me slowly to make sure it never hurt as I stretched open around his girth and length. Later on, though, when I’d gotten used to his size, this wasn’t an issue.

“It felt absolutely amazing. The size of the head and the thickness of his shaft, those things stick out in my memory.

“So having him inside you felt really different.”

“Yes. More full, plus because of his length, he could go in deeper. I was on fire with lust.

“When he finally got the last of it in, he smiled down at me. 'I've wanted to do this since the first time we met. I can't believe it's actually happening.'

"We shared several hungry kisses before he began thrusting his entire length in and out, slowly and gently, again gauging my reaction. When I told him how good it was feeling, he began to move quicker and more aggressively. I guess my moans told him he didn't need to worry about what he...we were doing.

"Marc told me several times that he couldn't believe we were finally doing this and how good it felt. I told him the same.

"I put my hands above me so I could push against the arm of the sofa to resist his thrusts. He groaned at that and thrust even harder. That first time Marc came more quickly than I became used to from him. My strongest memory of the physical experience was how amazing it felt when he got close, his cock swelling and getting even harder. The head of his cock felt enormous as it slid in an out. That turned me on very much.

"We didn't discuss whether he should finish inside me or not. I guess he thought if it wasn't okay, I would have told him he needed a condom. I was glad he didn’t. I loved feeling him swell, get even harder, and then with a long groan, Marc came inside me for the first time. I loved having him finish inside me. It surprised me how erotic that felt.

“My overwhelming memory of the first time we made love, though, is that I couldn’t believe I was actually doing this.

"Afterwards, we exchanged a few tender kisses and then he got off me so I could clean up in the bathroom.

“When I returned he was sitting on the couch, still naked. I sat next to him and we drank a little wine and he told me how much he’d enjoyed what we’d just done. I told him I felt the same. He asked me if I was okay.

“I remember saying something like, ‘I’m more than okay. That was wonderful.’

“His cock had begun to grow again, especially after that comment, so I reached out for it, and said something like, ‘Looks like you haven’t had enough yet.’ We started kissing and touching and this time our touches were intimate right away.

“Eventually I was ready again for him, so I turned sideways, but this time I was more upright (leaning against the arm of the sofa). I pulled my legs back as Marc knelt between them. I reached down and lined it up. He pushed forward slowly again.

“Even though we’d already made love, it was still a pretty tight fit, but as I took more and more of him in, I was able to concentrate more on what it felt like. It was very, very good. His thickness was amazing and I adored the way I could really feel the head of his cock. He was going in even deeper than before. Once his cock was all the way inside me, I sighed. ‘You feel so good in me, Marc. I wish now I didn’t make us wait so long for this to happen."

“How long would you say his cock was?”

“Maybe an inch and a half longer than you [so 8+ inches], but he was noticeably thicker and the head of his cock was really large. The second time, with the static in my brain all gone, I really paid attention to those details.”

“So you really liked his cock.”

“Yes. Very much. After that first night, I was completely hooked on it.

“And that’s why you enjoyed making love to him?”

“That was certainly a big part of it.”

“The surprising thing was I didn’t feel remorse about what I was doing. Later I felt guilty about it, but there was never remorse. Actually, I was proud I’d done it.”

“Was part of it that this man you admired had pursued you so hard?”

“Yes. There was that. I’d known since the summer what was on his mind. He wanted me. He wanted me very badly. I’d kept my feelings tamped down, but I realized that night I’d wanted it to happen for a long time.”

“You were a young and beautiful woman. Who wouldn’t want you?”

“Well, regardless of that, there was something about the situation that was a huge turn-on. I loved making Marc excited. I adored having him take his pleasure in me.”

“How long did things last when you did it the second time?”

“We went slower, savouring what everything felt like. We also talked to each other more, commenting on what we were feeling. He kept telling me how beautiful I was making love to him and how he couldn’t resist the temptation of my charms. That made me feel really good. Marc told me often how beautiful I was.

“I loved how deep, how forceful our lovemaking was that second time. Marc kept thrusting into me harder and harder. I was pushing back as hard as I could. The sound of our bodies slapping together sticks in my mind. In this position, I could feel every inch of his cock. The best part was when he got close, I could really feel the head of his cock swelling. That was truly amazing.

“Marc lasted a long time before he came. (I came pretty close to having an orgasm, but couldn't quite make it. That would come later.) One thing, Marc could cum a lot and this time I noticed every pulse of his cock inside me. The first time I only remember him swelling. Too much going on in my head I guess.

“One other thing just occurred to me, when we started up the second time, I was wondering how many times we’d make love that night. Funny thing to think…”

“How many times did you do it?”

“Just twice. Marc asked me to stay, of course, in which case we probably would have done it again during the night – and probably in the morning – but I felt I should get back to my apartment. That’s one thing I was always strict about: having my own space. I knew how dangerous it would be if I allowed myself to get too close to him.

“So Marc drove me home. Not much was said during the trip, but I did have my hand on his since his car had a stick shift. When we got to my place, he asked, ‘Is everything okay?’ I assured him it was.

“I was exhausted by everything that happened that evening, Thankfully, I fell asleep quickly and my rest was actually quite good. That surprised me the next morning. My first thought was, I can’t believe I did that. My second thought was, I want to do it again!

(She then became very upset because of her last comment, realizing it made her sound like a really terrible wife. I told Jennifer I loved her honesty. It was already pretty obvious to me that the sex they enjoyed had been really, really good. If I didn't want to hear some possibly upsetting things, I should never have asked in the first place. It certainly took me awhile to process all this, though!)

_________________
It's true what they say about redheads…
The recounting of my wife's university affair: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28088
And what has happened more recently: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30613


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Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:35 pm 
2 Bit Whore

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:20 am
Posts: 1379
What a beautiful conversation about discovering the joy of non monogamy!


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am 
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Thank you, Rob

54321


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:27 am 
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Posts: 236
Well she was a really terrible wife, and caused you much pain initially, but that is water over the dam at this point. You are both together and happy so that is what counts.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:22 am 
Experienced

Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:24 pm
Posts: 224
Quote:
Well she was a really terrible wife, and caused you much pain initially, but that is water over the dam at this point. You are both together and happy so that is what counts.


Really, I don't view it that way. We would not be married today if Jenn didn't have her affair with Marc. I was growing increasingly unhappy with the sexual boundaries she'd brought to our marriage. Being the person she is and me being the person I am, the original relationship we had would likely have imploded within a year or two -- it was that restricted because of what Jenn would not even consider sexually.

What is really ironic is that after she returned, Jennifer had completely changed her sexual "identity" and had to hide it -- unless she were to reveal what had happened. At the same time, I was growing even more impatient with her. It really was a mercy that the whole thing came out. What you call "pain" was actually my struggle to completely re-imagine who this woman I'd married actually was. Because of her upbringing, Jenn had a huge problem balancing what she felt sexually in her fantasies, and how she should behave as a wife. Marc caused the latter to go right out the window and released the sexual persona she had inside. Jenn has been so much happier ever since, and that was a wonderful thing to see. Plus, I reaped the benefits. :D

It was a mistake for her not to tell me what she was feeling about this man during the summer, but she didn't feel comfortable doing that. At that point she didn't really know what she wanted. He did attract her sexually, but that was very slow to grow and she basically used it as fodder for masturbating. (And she had told me many times that she never masturbated because it wasn't right.)

Hope that clears things up for you.

Righteous

_________________
It's true what they say about redheads…
The recounting of my wife's university affair: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28088
And what has happened more recently: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30613


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