Samantha Getting Started

[Samanthasman]

This is not a asshole response. Do you really think killing bill is a option of yours ? She can kill bill, but I think saying again is not true you said end it she talked to him behind your back and bill was never killed. You guys argued back and forth for a pretty short amount of time then she was sleeping with again (if she ever stopped). Sam never killed or had any intention to kill bill Reading the kill bill thread and her thread it is clear if bill is killed it will not be again it will be a first and I believe you have no say in that.

Yes, I believe killing Bill is still my option. There is a lot of love in our marriage. Yes, she is crazy about Bill. Yes, we both did not really want to Kill him before.

Yes, she could cheat on me if I put my foot down and said he's done. But, the truth is that her life and my life are highly intertwined. We work, live, travel, and raise a family together. We are together 24/7. She would have to be a 007 spy to sneak away unnoticed. She might get away with it once in a while, but no way to do it with any regularity and not get caught and she would know that getting caught cheating would be a very serous offense. She has zero interest in a divorce or doing something to harm me or our business or our family.

I have offered to her to "take control" and she has declined. She is concerned that doing anything without me being in control will make me unhappy, and that's why she is not interested in taking control even though I've offered that a few times now.

[Samanthasman]

SM,
There is some truth in the response from Wifesharing. Killing Bill didn't seem very successful the first time around and I'm not sure that either you or Samantha were really committed to it.

Samantha wants Bill as a boyfriend. That much is clear. She doesn't want to take control however. So, why don't you? Give her what she wants. You say that the two of you approach things as an experiment, and this is one that you haven't tried.

Why not tell her that she WILL date Bill twice a week. Go out for drinks and then head to the hotel or where ever. Make videos for you. Take pictures for you. Maybe even let you watch. But maybe go further and tell her that she WILL fuck Sid once a week. And she WILL fuck someone else once a week. With pictures, videos or what have you from Sid and the other lucky bastard.

Up until now, you really haven't been in control. You've been accepting. You're trying to give control to Sam and she doesn't want it. She wants you to be in control. What would happen if you truly did take FULL control?

Humm... is this not telling her to take control?? Are you just saying I should take control and for me doing the directing to tell her to see Bill more??? We sort of have been doing that with her seeing him 1-2x/week, but with some limits on time and other contract. Yes, we could remove all limits I guess...

The truth is that SOMETHING HAS CHANGED since the kill bill episode. I've lost interest in their relationship. I'm no longer sexually excited by her seeing him. It's a strange feeling to NOT be excited about her being with another man. I'm still trying to process that myself. It's like I've become a "normal husband" instead of a HWH. Does that happen?? Something snapped in me, and turn off the desires that have driven me so hard to want her to be with other men. I don't know yet, if this is just with Bill or with all other men. I don't know yet, if this is temporary.

However, if I don't feel sexually excited about my wife being with another man, I can't imagine that being sustainable. We'll have to figure that out...

[zorro]

Very curious twists in all this.

I don't have any advice at this point about what Sam and you should do. You both seem to be at some kind of stalemate, without its really being all that great for either of you, all the way around.

I have been thinking, though, about one of the debates that has run through this thread. And it relates tangentially to your interesting thoughts on HW models. Some of the comments here reveal men who think they need to be dominant in the relationship and in charge of their wife as she hotwives. Some think they need to make the wife dominant and call all the shots. But there is a third model, one that R and I follow: an egalitarian model, one in which neither of us is dominant. We listen to each other's wishes and desires and do what we can to find a way to make both of us happy.

There is an old saying: You can be right or you can be happy. In this case, you can win or you can be happy. Maybe it's time to stop thinking about who's winning, as if this were a horse race.

[WantMore]

Your in a time of healing over the exteme emotions that have come from some lies and knowing that killing Bill will vastly alter Sams outlook on hotwifing. You enjoy her to fuck other men because it makes you feel good inside. Im the same. Since she lied she crossed a line you never thought youd see. And since you know that killing Bill will hurt her, this leaves emptyness in your heart about hotwifing.

Been there pal... Time is the healer of it all!

[Samanthasman]

Samantha wants Bill as a boyfriend. That much is clear [...] Give her what she wants.

Would it work for you to give Samantha a complete "free pass" to have a proper, boyfriend/girlfriend, head-over-heels and PRIVATE time with Bill (perhaps with Samantha sharing tidbits as she likes, but no REQUIREMENT to do so - BUT require that Samantha also sees/fucks other guys where you DO get the videos, etc? Just let her run with her feelings for Bill and sees where it goes. Just a thought.

I have no idea how that would make me feel. It might turn me on. It might depress me. It might feel indifferent. I might want to date other women. Several of these scenarios are not good, but some are.

I'm not one to just gamble, but I do experiment. We'll talk about it. We could try it for a week or two and see what happens. Who knows...

[Samanthasman]

From time to time I have felt that "I don't care, it doesn't really turn me on" feeling. It's not very pleasant and luckily it doesn't last long. Of course I haven't had the same struggles with her relationships like you have. I would say don't stop hotwifing yet because of this feeling, Need to see if the excitement and eroticism comes back. Go back to the super hot videos next time and see if that brings back the old excited feelings. Try watching again, maybe a little closer, a little less disconnected next time. If the feelings ebb and flow from turned on to not turned on then that is no different than the typical roller coaster of emotions than most of us husbands feel when our wives are in the arms of another man.

Now if the good feelings are gone and stay gone then it is time to come up with a Plan B.

This sort of feedback is VERY helpful. Glad to hear others have had similar feelings and can share that. That's what OHW is all about in my opinion. When I showed up here for the first time it was a revelation to hear that other men shared my feelings - that I was not alone.

Thank you!

[DaBolts]

Mrs Dabolts got close with one guy Steve who tried to steal her from me. At first I put a stop to them and we argued about little stuff we never used to argue about and I realised it was due to me taking Steve away. So I told her she could see him all she wanted as long as our family life came first and for her to know that I was no longer turned on by them and that I was done facilitating the relationship. Meaning I wanted some free time as well and that I would also start looking for someone to date. She saw him one more time and then ended things.
She kinda stopped HWing for about 6 weeks and now things are back to normal.

[Samanthasman]

Mrs Dabolts got close with one guy Steve who tried to steal her from me. At first I put a stop to them and we argued about little stuff we never used to argue about and I realised it was due to me taking Steve away. So I told her she could see him all she wanted as long as our family life came first and for her to know that I was no longer turned on by them and that I was done facilitating the relationship. Meaning I wanted some free time as well and that I would also start looking for someone to date. She saw him one more time and then ended things.
She kinda stopped HWing for about 6 weeks and now things are back to normal.

This might just be the best advice I've seen on here.

Yes indeed...

The funny thing is that I have had ZERO interest in other women since my wife became a HW. I mean as always I admire the beauty of a beautiful women, but I just have no interest at all in having sex with another women. Once my interest in Bill and my wife got switched off, my interest in other women got switched back on. I don't understand these feelings frankly, but I can relate to what DaBolts said...

I don't know if my feelings are temporary. We'll see...

[Samanthasman]

I have a hot date with my wife tonite. Going to a 5-star restaurant with her wearing a painted on dress. HOT! Hopefuylly they won't kick us out of the place (can that happen??)

We may doing something else after.. like dancing or a swinger club...

I'm sure we'll also talk about Bill at dinner and see where we are with him. I've more or less told her that she's in control for now, but we have not really discussed what that means.

In the mean time, she had a date with a HOT YOUNG attorney this week. Says it went really well - good chemistry. It was just a get to know you date, but she's looking forward to a follow-up in the next 2 weeks...

And... Sid, is asking to meet her this week. He's a funny guy. He's married and his wife keeps him on a short leash, so he can only really get out to play about once every other week and then only for an hour or so...

And, Al, asked for a birthday BJ, and Samantha said YES. She has not seen him for over a year... so, who knows...

So, the Bill saga continues, but activity with other guys is building a bit...

[DaBolts]

Do you think you could have a date and make it about you guys and dont bring up Bill or the HW subject. At least wait until she brings it up.

[Samanthasman]

Do you think you could have a date and make it about you guys and dont bring up Bill or the HW subject. At least wait until she brings it up.

Good point... She never really brings it up. She does not really like to talk about HWing much. I've been sort of waiting for her to want to talk about it, and she never does. This morning I said "so what are you doing today?" in a general conversation, and she responded "what am I allowed to to?" obviously meaning that she'd like some sex, to which I replied "you can do whatever you want - I'm not going to try to control things any more"

And, rather than expanding on that conversation, she more or less just made a date to see Bill tomorrow. I kinda wanna say "OK, if you are in charge, this is what that means..."

[mundyman]

I would suggest having the snapper for dinner tonight.

[Iamtheman]

My guess is there will be several courses on the menu tonight! Enjoy SM!

[Samanthasman]

We had a great date and even visited a swingers club at the end of the night.

In the club we met a cute couple that approached us. They started telling us stories of some of their adventures - and there were several.

Then they sort of turned to us and asked "so, what do you guys do?" And Samantha shared that she is a HW and plays 2-3 times a week alone.

It totally blew their minds! I always knew that HWing was a somewhat extreme lifestyle; but I've always thought that swinging was as well. For us to freak our swingers who saw us as extreme was facinating.

The guy then asked a million questions, which we answered. He admitted that he enjoyed watching his wife have sex, but said he could not imagine letting her play alone. He said it was too scary to even think about.

They said "so you enjoy watching?" and I said "yes". At that point it was too much to try to explain to them that most of the time my wife plays solo. We did say she makes hot videos.

This clearly threw these two for a loop. The wife said I was a saint for letting Samantha enjoy this. I think she was even a little jealous of sam's lifestyle. They asked some questions about how sam meets men, and she told them about AM.

We also talked about their process, and apparently they go to a swing club a.couple times a month and try hard to find another couple to play with. Half the time or more it does not work. Usually someone has to "take one for the team" because it's rare to find another couple where everyone is attracted to everyone.

We walked around a bit and saw several couples having sex, but for the most part it was a turn off, because a lot of the people having sex were frankly not very attractive people. It sounds terrible, but watching overweight people having sex is not a turn on to either of us, not that everyone does not have every right to enjoy this lifestyle.

Anyway, that just seems to be what swingers have to "choose from". When we explained that Samantha gets to pick from like 1000 guys on AM for each date and sleep with multiple men - only the super hot ones - without having to find a suitable partner for her husband, I think some light bulbs started to go off.

"You men she gets to fuck only super hot guys that turn her on and she can do it multiple times a week and her husband does not bang other girls and he's supportive of all this??"

Umm, yep, pretty much that is it!

This compares to her having to bang the sometimes ugly guys married to the hot girls the husband gets to fuck - half of half the time.

In a way, I think this made both Samantha and I realize what an unbelievable deal her situation has been. She has had the opportunity to explore things far beyond what 99.999% of the rest of the women of the world have gotten... Even a pretty hot swinger babe.

[Samanthasman]

MAJOR UPDATE: Crash... Burn.... We're out.... I posted an update about finally ending the relationship with Bill in the thread "Kill Bill" here: http://ourhotwives.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 25#p468417

I use that thread to document exclusively what's going on with Samantha's primary lover, Bill.

I use this thread to document our overall HWing experience.

UPDATE:

We are currently "Inactive". After the breakup with Bill, Samantha is sad, heartbroken and not interested in her other lovers. She is upset, introspective, and turned off to the HW idea all together.

I do want to have a HW. I'm wired that way. But, we are not doing that right now.

We are both trying to reconcile where we are and where we are going. WE started this HW experiment at the beginning of 2014. It's been a very exciting ride - as we have both reach new sexual highs and had many unbelievable experiences.

We've also hit some lows.


Right now Samantha is very introspective. She is trying to understand herself better. I think she has some resentment towards me - for pushing her to be a HW and see multiple men, which she feels was beyond her conform zone. I'm a little resentful towards her for compartmentalizing her relationship with Bill and lying about things. Interestingly enough: we both feel a little like we were manipulated by the other. Maybe that is true.

One thing Sam is exploring is Sexaholics Anonymous.. She is trying to better understand her own behavior and wonders is going to those meetings might help? She read the definition of a sex addict and says that she fits several of the criteria.

Personally, I think this is not at all accurate. She is not a sex addict (I wish). Anyone that is infatuated with someone and having a lot of hot sex with that person would fall under their definition of "sex addict" temporarily. ...being pre-occupied by sex...having dangerous (public) sex...letting sex interrupt your work and family life (by doing it often)...

She's wondering if having sex with other men has caused problems in our marriage. We were great. She had sex with other men. We got into trouble. Thus "sex with other men" = "trouble".

I argue that "the sex with other men was never a problem in even the very slightest way"...and in fact the extramarital sex was good for the marriage (added excitement)... it was the not involving your husband and lying about things that was the problem.

My concern is that if she gets mixed up with Sexaholics Anonymous (a group that equates sex with problems), they will convince her that all her problems in her life came from becoming a HW, which was my idea. I course I really don't know anything about this group or organization, so I could be completely wrong.

Regardless, I am looking into meeting also with a couples councilor that is (supposedly) familiar with non-monagamous relationships. I actually wanted to start meeting with this councilor before we even started HWing in order to simply provide an additional resource to us as a couple starting a new adventure. However at the time, Sam said "No, that's silly. WE are the happiest couple around... we don't need to spend time seeing a couples councilor". It was supposed to be preventative... nows it's reactive...

[MrsTruckstar]

I will agree with you in part - A sex addict, still not fully accepted will fuck anybody to get their fix. Sam will not. I think it was SSQ that said you should speak to a lifestyle friendly therapist/counsellor - Top advice, especially when one reaches an introspective low, that is when you are most likely to get value from a specialist.

Good luck.

[rhinocat]

Good luck S-man! Use the "time out" to reconnect with each other like in the beginning of your relationship.
After the blow up between my wife and her boss I continued to be supportive, repeatedly told her that it wasn't her fault, that time will make all the bad feelings fade away and that we learned from this. We both will have better understanding on how to play this game next time. I do not bring up the times she didn't tell me everything that was going on, I feel it would serve no purpose.
Your wife enjoyed playing and so did mine, unfortunate situations arose and that halted it. Be supportive, be positive and give it time. All will work out and you guys will be better than ever!!!!

[Samanthasman]

I will agree with you in part - A sex addict, still not fully accepted will fuck anybody to get their fix. Sam will not. I think it was SSQ that said you should speak to a lifestyle friendly therapist/counsellor - Top advice, especially when one reaches an introspective low, that is when you are most likely to get value from a specialist.

Good luck.

We are scheduled to start talking to a councillor this week. We are both a little apprehensive - not sure if these people are helpful or harmful. I'm sure it depends on the councillor, and unfortunately, you don't know for a while. Regardless, always open to trying it out.

Question: how long does it normally take a woman to get over something like this (a breakup with a boyfriend she cares a lot about)??

Obviously everyone is different, but I'm curious about what to expect and what I might prepare for? How long before I no longer have to worry about her sneaking out or calling him?

[Samanthasman]

Minor Update:

Not much new other than that today we saw two couples therapists. We saw two "kink aware" therapists for the purpose of seeing which one we like better. One had just sort of the stereotypical "so how do you feel about that" style, while the other, that I personally liked more had 30 years of personal polyamory experience and was able to seemingly take control of the interaction and steer us more productively. We're also going to talk to a 3rd therapist, but so far I really like #2.

One useful exercises he brought us through was to each describe our "ideal relationship model" and then reiterated what the other person said. It's simple but it shows where your goals are compatible and not. We do have compatible goals !

Interestingly, neither therapist thought the lying was a big deal. I sort of expected them to focus in on that but they seemed to feel that that would be get worked out as the other communication is improved. On therapist said "lying is something people do to gain control. It's something children do because it's often the only control they have". Sort out the control issues and the lying gets sorted out.

I asked Sam if she thought it was all helpful and she said "it felt good to be heard by a third party, but the truth is that our relationship is fine - we are great... We will continue to be great... We'll be just fine no matter what". That always feels good

[mundyman]

Good for you two.
Continued positive growth and best wishes.

[viking53]

Very positive to hear. I am sure this will help you both to get back on track to wherever it is you want to go. Hopefully, this will also further strengthen your marriage.

Hoping for a continued positive development for you both.

[bubbajack]

I think the analysis of lying as a means to gain or preserve personal control in challenging or confused circumstances is applicable and likely to be helpful to the two of you in particular, if you can read it right.

So much of the recent crisis had the character of a contest for control of important features of your particular hotwifing program. For example, each of you insisted on features which were - and never became less than - utterly incompatible: you wanted to be there in person while she fucked that person whose name we no longer speak - she would give you any audio-visual entertainment media displaying whatever action you might ask for, but she did not want you there in person while she was fucking him.

You both fought to the last ditch for the precise thing you wanted until the program blew up. Evidently there was never any effective alteration in the terms of the contest - so nobody won.

It is also true that (so far) nobody has literally died and that nobody has left the marriage - so there is hope for better sexier days to come.

But I think nothing will change on the outside-sex front unless you can work out a way to harmonize your individual (really quite powerful) drives for control of the processes and procedures by which a couple can safely and satisfyingly get sexual variety and adventure into their marital life.

You have done - once, at least - the exercise of comparing your individual ideal versions of the process - did anything come out of that which might suggest a program of reform? I mean, other than quitting hotwifing, of course - which would be a shame and also (in my opinion) dangerous in the long run because if you try to live together under strict monogamy I predict eventually one of you beautiful and fortunate but restless people will outright cheat.

[Samanthasman]

I think the analysis of lying as a means to gain or preserve personal control in challenging or confused circumstances is applicable and likely to be helpful to the two of you in particular, if you can read it right.

So much of the recent crisis had the character of a contest for control of important features of your particular hotwifing program. For example, each of you insisted on features which were - and never became less than - utterly incompatible: you wanted to be there in person while she fucked that person whose name we no longer speak - she would give you any audio-visual entertainment media displaying whatever action you might ask for, but she did not want you there in person while she was fucking him.

You both fought to the last ditch for the precise thing you wanted until the program blew up. Evidently there was never any effective alteration in the terms of the contest - so nobody won.

It is also true that (so far) nobody has literally died and that nobody has left the marriage - so there is hope for better sexier days to come.

But I think nothing will change on the outside-sex front unless you can work out a way to harmonize your individual (really quite powerful) drives for control of the processes and procedures by which a couple can safely and satisfyingly get sexual variety and adventure into their marital life.

You have done - once, at least - the exercise of comparing your individual ideal versions of the process - did anything come out of that which might suggest a program of reform? I mean, other than quitting hotwifing, of course - which would be a shame and also (in my opinion) dangerous in the long run because if you try to live together under strict monogamy I predict eventually one of you beautiful and fortunate but restless people will outright cheat.

Good observations as always Bubba...

Did anything come out that would be a roadmap for reform??? Hummm... Too early to tell. Sam knows that she screwed up this party for everyone. We had moments of greatness where everyone was having the times of their lives - Me, Bill, and her.

She's definitely upset with herself for blowing it. She believes she could have fixed everything but just did not have time to do it - and was moving too fast and pushing too hard.

At this point she says (and I believe her) that she is more than happy being monogamous. She was fine with that before and she is fine with that now. Honestly, we have a great life. Off the charts great by any standards. She sort of wonders why I even want more. I'm the one that is more interested in making this HW thing work. Honestly, I wish she wanted it more, but she has the position that if we try the HW thing again, she's doing it more for me than for her. That said, she does now know how awesome it has the potential of being and I hope that translates into lessons learned about what not to do in the future for both of us...

[Samanthasman]

I read, she won. Ill skip reading and wait until the thread of Kill Bill Vol. 3 begins. I hope I'm not right, however. Do be careful; all the best to you.

How come someone had to win?? If you read her thread, we both wanted this, just with mutually agreeable terms. We're not "compeing" hopefully we both win...

I wouldn't say she won. No one won. You're insane for pushing this. Maybe Bill can keep it to just sex. I think it's more likely he told you want you wanted to hear so he can keep seeing your wife. But regardless, SHE has feelings for him and now you're throwing her right back into it. People can't just turn their feelings off. I can't even say you're the patsy here, because this is something you've done to yourself. It's not something they've done to you, unless this is the greatest gaslighting in history. I don't want to be overly mean, but at this point you deserve what you get.

I think you have a little catching up to do... Bill is dead... Nobody is pushing to bring Bill back...

Did Bill tell me what I wanted to hear - yes, to some degree, however, in the end Bill was not the problem. Even the relationship with Bill was not the problem. Sam was infatuated with Bill, for sure, but all of that could probably have been managed. Many couples go though NRE - and that is what this was.

The problem that torpedo'ed the relationship with Bill was lying about the relationship with Bill. Sam felt cornered and controlled and constrained and dealt with those emotions by attempting to "manage" me by, in some cases, lying to me. She felt it was easier to tell me what I wanted to hear or what she thought would least upset me rather than the truth, in some cases.

Rather than saying "I'm crazy infatuated with Bill and can't stop thinking about him and the next time I'll see him and fuck him, but don't worry, I still love you!" and then dealing with me asking if this is good for our marriage, she instead said "Oh, don't worry about Bill... I did not even talk to him today, he's no threat to us at all".

What's interesting, is that had I not discovered her lies, the NRE probably would have faded and we could very well have all been fine. However, because I did discover the lies, I went ballistic (rightfully so) and that caused more pressure and downward spiral that made her feel more like lying was the only way to potentially recover.

I sometimes wonder if other HWs lie... or should I say "soften the truth" when talking about how they feel about their BFs. Especially those that have real BFs as apposed to FBs and ONS. I mean if they get away with it, it's probably harmless in the end.

That being said, I will argue that lying is NEVER ACCEPTABLE. And, one lesson learned I hope my wife comes away with from losing Bill is that lying is never acceptable and if it happens again, we will crash and burn again, which is no fun for anyone.

I've tried to explain to her that "I understand why you lied... it seemed like the means to an end... however, the truth is just the opposite"... It's like when a pilot is in a plane that stalls and begins falling to the ground. The instinct is to aim the plane up, but the correct move is to aim the plane down and pick up speed. When you tell the truth, yes, sometimes the truth hurts a little, but in telling the truth you build trust and credibility that can then be leveraged to get you through. Without the trust and credibility, however, you can't get anywhere in a relationship.

[Salsonero]

Just want to applaud you and say what a brave soul you are to share your emotions here, where it may help others in similar straits.