Polyamory in advice column of the New York Times

[edwardbare]

January 16, 2022

Social Q's by Philip Galanes

Travel Arrangements




By Philip Galanes
Jan. 13, 2022

My 30-year-old daughter is in a polyamorous relationship with a married man. She brought him home for the holidays, and while he was charming, I felt uncomfortable. (This may have been triggered by my husband’s infidelity that led to our divorce.) Now, my daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. It may be petty, but I don’t want to foot the bill for another woman’s husband. And I don’t see any way this relationship can lead to my daughter’s happiness. Should I lay out my boundaries and risk my daughter not joining me on vacation?
MOM
I may be off-base, but I don’t think the real issue here is the cost of a trip to Greece or your ex-husband’s infidelity. This is about respecting your adult daughter’s choices. You have substituted your idea of happiness for hers. This is a common (and often well-intentioned) trap for many parents. It’s not productive, though.
Let’s put aside the trip to Greece and the specter of your cheating ex. Unlike him, people in polyamorous arrangements usually set ground rules with their partners for opening their relationship to others. (No one is cheating!) Try to understand, as best you can, what your daughter likes about this arrangement and how it satisfies her.

[kort677]

it is interesting how this topic is now mainstream

[canadianwittol]

I'm not sure this is great advice. Mr. Galanes evaded completely the question as to why the daughter's lover is entitled to a free vacation paid for by the disapproving mother. I would suggest that the mother's feelings ought to count too and she is neither obliged to sanction the relationship nor to pay for the vacation. This could lead to much resentment down the line - and by the way, why is this deadbeat expecting his lover's mother to buy him a trip?

If the daughter were in a relationship with a drunk who beat her up, I doubt if the author would insist the mother respect her choices. Having a partner who is a married, polyamorous man may well lead to later dissatisfaction in the daughter's life, not having a real partner who is present for her - something mom well knows. Perhaps it belies a deeper-seeded issue the daughter has with commitment. If not a parent to offer life advice to their child, or to provoke questions about what it is she wants, then whom?

I'm going to have to give Mr. Galanes a failing grade here for a poorly thought out response.

[veub]

I'm not sure this is great advice. Mr. Galanes evaded completely the question as to why the daughter's lover is entitled to a free vacation paid for by the disapproving mother. I would suggest that the mother's feelings ought to count too and she is neither obliged to sanction the relationship nor to pay for the vacation. This could lead to much resentment down the line - and by the way, why is this deadbeat expecting his lover's mother to buy him a trip?

If the daughter were in a relationship with a drunk who beat her up, I doubt if the author would insist the mother respect her choices. Having a partner who is a married, polyamorous man may well lead to later dissatisfaction in the daughter's life, not having a real partner who is present for her - something mom well knows. Perhaps it belies a deeper-seeded issue the daughter has with commitment. If not a parent to offer life advice to their child, or to provoke questions about what it is she wants, then whom?

I'm going to have to give Mr. Galanes a failing grade here for a poorly thought out response.

I agree. It's totally up to the mother who she spends her money on. Also, how is the mother to know for sure that this is a poly relationship and not just a man cheating? His, or her daughter's description of the wife's knowledge and approval of the relationship?

[Christinebitg]

I'm not sure this is great advice. Mr. Galanes evaded completely the question as to why the daughter's lover is entitled to a free vacation paid for by the disapproving mother.

As much as I'm in favor of poly relationships, I had the same reaction you did.

[deffle]

I'm not sure this is great advice. Mr. Galanes evaded completely the question as to why the daughter's lover is entitled to a free vacation paid for by the disapproving mother.

As much as I'm in favor of poly relationships, I had the same reaction you did.

Grown men shouldn't have their women's mothers paying for stuff, regardless of the relationship.

The advice giver is condescending and dumb - but she works for the NYT so not surprised.

[Christinebitg]

The advice giver is condescending and dumb - but she works for the NYT so not surprised.

Yes, the advice giver is screwed up.

However, I think that your injection of politics into this discussion is inappropriate.

[canadianwittol]

In the interest of playing the Devil's Advocate, I'm not certain that deffle was injecting politics per se; they could just as easily be venting their frustration with the media in general.

While Jon Stewart always had a definitive left-learning political slant, he always seemed to save his greatest disdain for the media. Whether your politics are right or left, the fourth estate bears little resemblance to yesteryear's more objective, intrepid reporting.

Let's just all agree that this was truly awful advice.

[subtoall]

Actually, I think the columnist's advice was appropriate for a question involving ethical nonmonogamy.

[Christinebitg]

In the interest of playing the Devil's Advocate, I'm not certain that deffle was injecting politics per se; they could just as easily be venting their frustration with the media in general.

While Jon Stewart always had a definitive left-learning political slant, he always seemed to save his greatest disdain for the media. Whether your politics are right or left, the fourth estate bears little resemblance to yesteryear's more objective, intrepid reporting.

Let's just all agree that this was truly awful advice.

Is the New York Times too far left of center? Yes, I happen to think they are usually.

But if he wanted to refer to the media in general, he could have done that. He didn't.

No, he singled out the NYT specifically. I'm not going to sit quietly by and agree to sing kumbyah. That was tried five years ago, and it didn't work then either.

[LawyerWouldbeCuckold]

I'm not sure this is great advice. Mr. Galanes evaded completely the question as to why the daughter's lover is entitled to a free vacation paid for by the disapproving mother. I would suggest that the mother's feelings ought to count too and she is neither obliged to sanction the relationship nor to pay for the vacation. This could lead to much resentment down the line - and by the way, why is this deadbeat expecting his lover's mother to buy him a trip?

If the daughter were in a relationship with a drunk who beat her up, I doubt if the author would insist the mother respect her choices. Having a partner who is a married, polyamorous man may well lead to later dissatisfaction in the daughter's life, not having a real partner who is present for her - something mom well knows. Perhaps it belies a deeper-seeded issue the daughter has with commitment. If not a parent to offer life advice to their child, or to provoke questions about what it is she wants, then whom?

I'm going to have to give Mr. Galanes a failing grade here for a poorly thought out response.

I have to agree with the contribution of the gentleman who lives in our "most important neighbor to the North"....LOL LOL LOL.

As the mother is footing the bill, her reaction is entirely appropriate- both in terms of paying for this guy's vacation, and her reaction to
the relationship.

If I'm vacationing, even if it's with other people, then I'm paying my way- unless I"ve been told beforehand that the hosts/someone else is paying.

[Wonderfultoo]

Wow this got off track. I see the assumption here that mom was going to pay for his trip. No where do I read he wanted this. No one knows if he would accept, expect or have her mother pay for the trip. I don't see "payment" being as relevant to this discussion as mom's feelings. I think we need to peal the onion one more layer before the knives come out.

[canadianwittol]

Actually, it was very specifically stated:

My 30-year-old daughter is in a polyamorous relationship with a married man. She brought him home for the holidays, and while he was charming, I felt uncomfortable. (This may have been triggered by my husband’s infidelity that led to our divorce.) Now, my daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. It may be petty, but I don’t want to foot the bill for another woman’s husband. And I don’t see any way this relationship can lead to my daughter’s happiness. Should I lay out my boundaries and risk my daughter not joining me on vacation?

Wow this got off track. I see the assumption here that mom was going to pay for his trip. No where do I read he wanted this. No one knows if he would accept, expect or have her mother pay for the trip. I don't see "payment" being as relevant to this discussion as mom's feelings. I think we need to peal the onion one more layer before the knives come out.

[Chrislydi]

Wow this got off track. I see the assumption here that mom was going to pay for his trip. No where do I read he wanted this. No one knows if he would accept, expect or have her mother pay for the trip. I don't see "payment" being as relevant to this discussion as mom's feelings. I think we need to peal the onion one more layer before the knives come out.

Everyone read the piece which clearly states she is, so it's possibly more of a question why you don't think that's relevant. You say you didn't read it then what exactly where you reading?

To my mind the woman who pays the piper should call the tune. Her opinion is most relevant of all. The daughter can go on her own vacation and get someone else's husband to pay for her too.

[Wonderfultoo]

What I read is the daughter said: Now, my daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. Has she had a discussion with him first? I don't see anywhere in here where the man expresses is feelings or wants directly. It's all he said she said.

Get his opinion first. Daughter may want him to go, and thinks if mom pays he might say yes. Or he could be completely surprised and say no way, I'm staying home with my family.

Just saying.

[isinlarsa]

Left unexplained is why this is a polyamorous relationship. Nothing is said about the role of the man's wife. Is she aware and participates in a three-way relationship? Is she accepting of the daughter as a co-wife? Why would she be left at home while the daughter and her lover go to Greece?

Or is the daughter merely having an old-fashion affair with a married man, whether or not his wife knows.

BTW, why should the mother not say, "Fine, as long as he pays his own way". After all he is an adult male.

[MermaidHotwife]

Left unexplained is why this is a polyamorous relationship. Nothing is said about the role of the man's wife. Is she aware and participates in a three-way relationship? Is she accepting of the daughter as a co-wife? Why would she be left at home while the daughter and her lover go to Greece?

Or is the daughter merely having an old-fashion affair with a married man, whether or not his wife knows.

BTW, why should the mother not say, "Fine, as long as he pays his own way". After all he is an adult male.

Triads are not the only valid form of polyamory. They could be practicing parallel polyam, the metamours don’t (necessarily) hang out together. Or maybe she leans toward RA (Relationship Anarchy).

[isinlarsa]

Left unexplained is why this is a polyamorous relationship. Nothing is said about the role of the man's wife. Is she aware and participates in a three-way relationship? Is she accepting of the daughter as a co-wife? Why would she be left at home while the daughter and her lover go to Greece?

Or is the daughter merely having an old-fashion affair with a married man, whether or not his wife knows.

BTW, why should the mother not say, "Fine, as long as he pays his own way". After all he is an adult male.

Triads are not the only valid form of polyamory. They could be practicing parallel polyam, the metamours don’t (necessarily) hang out together. Or maybe she leans toward RA (Relationship Anarchy).

Relationship Anarchy is a term I'm not familiar with.

[atl0707]

Part of the problem here is that mothers will want to see their daughters get married. From a traditional viewpoint, polyamory is just something you do for fun away from your parents, perhaps something you do when you aren't really serious about being in a relationship. We all know there are many perspectives on this, but the reality is that the woman is having an affair with a married man and the mother doesn't approve, because she earnestly wants her daughter to be with someone who values her and her only. It doesn't matter if the daughter is OK with being the other woman. It really looks bad, and the daughter has to accept that people will always question in the back of their minds if she's settling on what she can get.

The mother, in my view, is 100% justified in her concerns. She really needs to have a talk with her daughter so that the young woman knows that when she's dumped by this guy, it's really going to hurt. Being open-minded can sometimes lead to needless heartache, and a guy who has a wife already has his dominion set up. He doesn't need the daughter for anything, really, unless he's dumped by his wife. And then, the daughter can look forward to him eventually wanting to date other women. How is that going to feel, and will she want children with such a man one day? Time will only tell, but it's looking dark outside.

[D+D]

Ridiculous advice. No way I’d pay for his vacation. He’s in an open marriage and he’s getting it on with the daughter until he moves along to someone else. He wants to go, fine but pay his own way.

[subbieCuck]

As I see it, mother should accept that her daughter is in a poly relationship but she should also let her know that she is uncomfortable and prob the holiday with her husband will be a cause of anxiety for her. She should also talk to her about more serious issues such as kids, long term prospects of the relation etc.

Talk and listen.

[WatchinginNJ]

Left unexplained is why this is a polyamorous relationship. Nothing is said about the role of the man's wife. Is she aware and participates in a three-way relationship? Is she accepting of the daughter as a co-wife? Why would she be left at home while the daughter and her lover go to Greece?

Or is the daughter merely having an old-fashion affair with a married man, whether or not his wife knows.

BTW, why should the mother not say, "Fine, as long as he pays his own way". After all he is an adult male.

Triads are not the only valid form of polyamory. They could be practicing parallel polyam, the metamours don’t (necessarily) hang out together. Or maybe she leans toward RA (Relationship Anarchy).

Relationship Anarchy is a term I'm not familiar with.

Poly people who practice relationship anarchy have no "Hierarchy". In it's purest form it just means, you wouldn't place one partners needs higher or relationship higher. There's lots of versions of poly (Hotwifing has overlap for sure).

[Des 31]

January 16, 2022

Social Q's by Philip Galanes

Travel Arrangements




By Philip Galanes
Jan. 13, 2022

My 30-year-old daughter is in a polyamorous relationship with a married man. She brought him home for the holidays, and while he was charming, I felt uncomfortable. (This may have been triggered by my husband’s infidelity that led to our divorce.) Now, my daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. It may be petty, but I don’t want to foot the bill for another woman’s husband. And I don’t see any way this relationship can lead to my daughter’s happiness. Should I lay out my boundaries and risk my daughter not joining me on vacation?
MOM
I may be off-base, but I don’t think the real issue here is the cost of a trip to Greece or your ex-husband’s infidelity. This is about respecting your adult daughter’s choices. You have substituted your idea of happiness for hers. This is a common (and often well-intentioned) trap for many parents. It’s not productive, though.
Let’s put aside the trip to Greece and the specter of your cheating ex. Unlike him, people in polyamorous arrangements usually set ground rules with their partners for opening their relationship to others. (No one is cheating!) Try to understand, as best you can, what your daughter likes about this arrangement and how it satisfies her.

It has been a while since this post was left here, so I don't know how it turned out. But, for me, there's no way I'm paying another guy's fare for trips with my wife (or with a daughter, if I had one). If he wants to travel with and fuck your daughter, he should be able to foot the bill.

~ Des

[Des 31]

January 16, 2022

Social Q's by Philip Galanes

Travel Arrangements




By Philip Galanes
Jan. 13, 2022

My 30-year-old daughter is in a polyamorous relationship with a married man. She brought him home for the holidays, and while he was charming, I felt uncomfortable. (This may have been triggered by my husband’s infidelity that led to our divorce.) Now, my daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. It may be petty, but I don’t want to foot the bill for another woman’s husband. And I don’t see any way this relationship can lead to my daughter’s happiness. Should I lay out my boundaries and risk my daughter not joining me on vacation?
MOM

A parent's wishes and goals for an offspring are strong but rarely effective with adult children. But neither my wife nor I would pay for a family trip for a relative's boyfriend. If he wants to go, and the family is willing, he should pay full fare for himself and your daughter. I would pay for the daughter if she were traveling alone with us.