wife surprised me with something

[aztd]

Going good

[philxxo]

Recently we were out of town for the weekend at an event. She talked to many men and women freely. I had a watchful eye but expressed no jealousy. I think one of the women is most definitely bisexual. She was increasingly friendly and touchy with that woman. Makes me think. I think she is slowly testing boundaries, and looking for my reactions. I played it very cool.

[philxxo]

Off on another business trip. This time it's longer. Keeping my fingers crossed that a very handsome man will cross her path.

[philxxo]

So, she is off on the business trip. I'm pretty sure not much is happening. She did say she is starting to feel horny though. I know she has had opportunity to talk to many people, men and women. I told her in the past I would not bring up sharing her anymore unless she does. So far she hasn't. Sometimes I am in fantasyland and she wants to know what I am thinking about, then I tell her. She usually just shuts it down quickly or gets mad. She also mentioned that my sexual performance lately has not been so good. No stamina. My sexual performance is declining lately for sure. We will see what she decides to do as it gets worse.

[FNQLivin]

Has she expressed an interest in women before?

[philxxo]

Prior to me she had a MFF 3 some and tried to arrange another before her BF blocked it. I don't think she enjoys women, but she knows I would enjoy that.

[philxxo]

So wife and I were playing the other night. I was fingering her. I mentioned the name of a guy she has said was attractive. She immediately got wetter. She was somewhat intoxicated as well. I told her I wanted to watch her fuck this guy. She wanted to know if it was him cumming in her that excited me, I said yes, and other things as well. Since she was somewhat intoxicated I talked about it the next day. She denied that she got wetter at the mention of his name. Then she spent some time asking if I was afraid to lose her. I said I wasn't afraid of that fact, but I definitely did not want to lose her. Thoughts or suggestions?

[myoralannie]

Pretty typical dance if u ask me, Annie and I go from hot and heavy on the topic of her playing and her past play to shutting down the convo for weeks. I get it. It flies in the face of everything they were told while growing up about women’s sexuality or at least it does for Annie considering her Catholic upbringing.

Let it breath for a bit. She’ll come back around. Good luck.

[philxxo]

Well not a lot to report as far as actual activities. Wife decided to try some athletics recently, which I am in favor of. The guy teaching the activity she has mentioned to me a few times, once describing him as her "new friend." I don't think she meant anything by it. I met him recently. He is a tall guy about 6 ft 5 or so, very athletic, middle aged, European. We will call him R. The first time she went for training she was sure to shower and shave her legs, which seemed odd to me. She was joking me like she was sure I would rather her not look good. She was maybe hoping I would get jealous. I screwed up once and showed some jealousy, I am very cautious not to do it again. When she was done she was asking me if I was worried about any of the men there, and I said no of course not. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I haven't brought up hotwifing recently at all. I am keeping a low profile on it. I am just letting her be. She knows my desires and fantasies.

[RuleEmAll]

Well not a lot to report as far as actual activities. Wife decided to try some athletics recently, which I am in favor of. The guy teaching the activity she has mentioned to me a few times, once describing him as her "new friend." I don't think she meant anything by it. I met him recently. He is a tall guy about 6 ft 5 or so, very athletic, middle aged, European. We will call him R. The first time she went for training she was sure to shower and shave her legs, which seemed odd to me. She was joking me like she was sure I would rather her not look good. She was maybe hoping I would get jealous. I screwed up once and showed some jealousy, I am very cautious not to do it again. When she was done she was asking me if I was worried about any of the men there, and I said no of course not. I am keeping my fingers crossed. I haven't brought up hotwifing recently at all. I am keeping a low profile on it. I am just letting her be. She knows my desires and fantasies.

I would have responded with "worried? I'm excited about the men out there, I hope they're attractive!" and let the gerbil in her head run around....

[philxxo]

So, we had another conversation the last few days. She was asking me very personal sexual questions. I was asking the same. I asked her if she was going to ever have sex with another man. She didn't say no. She doesn't understand why I think she is unsatisfied sexually. She claims she isn't. Then she thinks I want this because I am bored sexually, which I'm not. I just said I know its something she would appreciate. I am a bit older and I am declining sexually. I explained that she could get some young, hung stud to fuck her good pretty regularly. She said no before but she says you are bringing it up again. She didn't say hell no way and close the door. I think she is still trying to understand it. So i guess its still out there?

[CandA]

Phil,

It seems to me that you two are stuck in a pattern which doesn't appear gratifying either of your aspirations.

It seems to me that your desire overshadows your sexy time together, which drives your thoughts of her being shared front and center in your in-the-moment thoughts, and therefore you can't be as emotionally and intimately tuned-in to her during your most intimate time. Therefore you are having experiences that are more individual and separate rather than at-one.

My conjecture is that she needs to feel more like she is the center of your desire and affection. That she is your world AS SHE IS, not as you fantasize she could be if she were to feel and behave differently. Your feelings for her seem to be so flavored by your own persistent desire for her non-monogamy that you can't fully embrace intimacy for her as she IS and AS SHE IS COMFORTABLE BEING.

It seems to me that any progress will not happen based on a feeling of persistent disregard and lack of genuine acceptance.

People step outside their comfort zone more readily when they feel secure and supported in risk taking, and that is normally based on a very assured sense of support for the WHO THEY ARE.

Questions of your jealousy and fear of losing her seem to point to a need for her to feel valued and loved for who she is and her special status as the object of your happiness desire as she is now.

Kind regards,

Curtis

[philxxo]

Thanks for the wisdom. Yes, she seems concerned that I want to sleep with other women, or I am trying to get rid of her by shoving her onto another man. She doesn't understand how it is that it's going to be great if another guy is replacing me. I assured her that I would be there, and the other guy would just be "helping" me have sex with her. I don't have the stamina she requires. Now she also thinks I am wanting this because I am sexually bored which isn't the case. She could get any good looking man she wanted. I am encouraging a 3 some for now. But I have to drop it for a while until she brings it up again.

[Jujube]

The way I see it is she wants you to be jealous, and when you say you’re not in the least, she probably sees you as something of a robot who keeps bringing this up waayy too many times. You say you’re not going to bring it up, but you bring it up. That would be tiresome and frankly, anti erotic to most women. You need to tell her when she asks, “ Yes I’m jealous, but I’ve dealt with it by eroticizing it. She seems to like to tease you about it-tease her back! Make it fun, but I certainly wouldn’t want it to be the focal point of your intimacy at this point.

[philxxo]

Yes, this is true. Yes I brought it up. It was during an open discussion about sex and desire between us. So I thought I would bring it up again. I don't do it often. Yes, she wants me to be jealous. She thinks that is the way it should be. She thinks that is healthy. She is insanely jealous and insecure and she thinks I should be the same way. I do have some jealousy but I generally control it. As you say, I have eroticized my jealousy. I know she is keeping hotwifing in the back of her mind as an option. Her initial reaction, after shock, was OK what's your plan to make this work? And if you really want this, then I feel like as your wife I should do it for you. That was only a day or so. I explained how I thought it would work out. Then some time later she decided against it, because of religious prohibition essentially. She knows that if she says OK let's do it, then I will get on an app and find someone. She wants me to be the one holding back and saying "no" because I am jealous and guard her closely. I explain that I am going nowhere, and this is a bonus to her. I think its a matter of the right person showing up and being available, or the right circumstance in which my sexual performance continues to decline.

[philxxo]

So we had some pillow talk the other day. It seems her instructor "R" is more interesting to her now. She initially was describing him as a bit of a "jerk." Now she says he is interesting and intelligent, she likes his sense of humor. A guy can hope.

[mfm4bnc]

Going back to your first post on this thread: You got a lot of advice primarily focussed on you and your wants... a different idea is to make it about her and rewarding small steps. A simple response the next time she does something hot for you could be:

I know that some of my fantasies are outside your boundaries. I really want to recognize and appreciate that you found a way to play to my fantasies in a way that fits within your boundaries. My heart was beating a million miles an hour when you sat on that guys lap! It was so hot!

Then you can leave a door open for discussion without asking a direct question:

Even as I was watching, I was fantasizing. My fantasy was that you were enjoying it as much as I was... that you enjoyed having that sexy power over both him and me... that you were thinking about how much both he and I loved it.

[philxxo]

That's great advice which I have used recently. So I had a dream recently and in the dream my wife was having sex with another married couple we know. (It's interesting to me that all the sex dreams I have lately involve her having sex with someone else, instead of me having sex with anyone.) I told her about it. So the following day she tells me she had a dream where she was about to have sex with a younger coworker. She wanted him. It barely got started and she woke up. So I was asking a bunch of questions, and she answered. I told her that it was a real turn on hearing it. So days later I asked her if she had anymore dreams? She said I guessed you liked that? I said yes its a huge turn on. So she said she would tell me her sexy dreams more often. I think that is some progress. Maybe a window to find out what fantasies she has, and what kind of guys she finds attractive. She still won't tell me those things.

[Bent_n_Twisted]

...So days later I asked her if she had anymore dreams? She said I guessed you liked that? I said yes its a huge turn on. So she said she would tell me her sexy dreams more often. I think that is some progress. Maybe a window to find out what fantasies she has, and what kind of guys she finds attractive. She still won't tell me those things.

That is definitely progress. If she sees you reacting positively, especially becoming aroused, it can encourage her to tell you more and tease you with the ideas. It can also help her become more comfortable with the fact that she has these thoughts/dreams, and more comfortable with relating them to you.

It can become like a positive feedback loop, with her telling you more and more, getting a positive reaction, which in turn causes her to *want* to tell you more. Eventually she may be come comfortable enough with the ideas to begin to want to make them reality.

[54321]

Yes, she wants me to be jealous. She thinks that is the way it should be. She thinks that is healthy. She is insanely jealous and insecure and she thinks I should be the same way. I do have some jealousy but I generally control it. As you say, I have eroticized my jealousy.

Maybe you could try expressing it in her language by telling her:
It's the cocktail of jealousy and excitement that makes the idea so intensely thrilling.
If she wants to have fun, you are all for it but if she were to leave you, you would be horrified and fight to the end because you love her so much.
How much you care for her and how much you adore her.
That ALL men (even the hyper jealous ones!) have this fantasy although most are afraid to voice it.
Every man secretly loves to imagine his wife as an irresistible sexual Goddess desired and worshipped by many.
Every fabulous, chic, beautiful woman needs an adoring husband to love her, worship her, make love with her and share the deepest intimacies, and a select stable of lovers to give her the butterflies, the ego boost, the novelty and the variety necessary to keep her in prime condition and 'date hot'.

This is an opportunity for her to enjoy the thrills and spills of dating and being intimate with different men but with the safety net of her constant relationship with you, her adoring husband. What's not to like? 

Deep down, every man wants his wife to be a glamorous, seductive, adventurous, exciting, irresistible, sexually free and empowered woman, even if the reality of it terrifies him.

A hotwife husband has a wife who is all of these things.

To have a loving wife who is so confident, so sensual, so irresistible, so in touch with her sexuality, so self expressed, so free, so on top of her flirting game and so much fun is the ultimate dream.

Is this any help?

54321

[philxxo]

Yes, she wants me to be jealous. She thinks that is the way it should be. She thinks that is healthy. She is insanely jealous and insecure and she thinks I should be the same way. I do have some jealousy but I generally control it. As you say, I have eroticized my jealousy.

Maybe you could try expressing it in her language by telling her:
It's the cocktail of jealousy and excitement that makes the idea so intensely thrilling.
If she wants to have fun, you are all for it but if she were to leave you, you would be horrified and fight to the end because you love her so much.
How much you care for her and how much you adore her.
That ALL men (even the hyper jealous ones!) have this fantasy although most are afraid to voice it.
Every man secretly loves to imagine his wife as an irresistible sexual Goddess desired and worshipped by many.
Every fabulous, chic, beautiful woman needs an adoring husband to love her, worship her, make love with her and share the deepest intimacies, and a select stable of lovers to give her the butterflies, the ego boost, the novelty and the variety necessary to keep her in prime condition and 'date hot'.

This is an opportunity for her to enjoy the thrills and spills of dating and being intimate with different men but with the safety net of her constant relationship with you, her adoring husband. What's not to like? 

Deep down, every man wants his wife to be a glamorous, seductive, adventurous, exciting, irresistible, sexually free and empowered woman, even if the reality of it terrifies him.

A hotwife husband has a wife who is all of these things.

To have a loving wife who is so confident, so sensual, so irresistible, so in touch with her sexuality, so self expressed, so free, so on top of her flirting game and so much fun is the ultimate dream.

Is this any help?

54321

I think that is very helpful. I have told her those things. I don't ever want to lose her, doesn't mean she can't play and be sexually satisfied to the fullest. I'm past my sexual prime. I have to take ED meds to get going usually. I have told her she is sexually free to have sex with whoever she would like. I think she could get plenty of young good looking studs to fill her and have told her that. I told her I would enjoy helping to find studs for her. She didn't like that idea. Right now I am just focused on small bits that she gives to me and then giving positive reinforcement and no jealousy.

[Shiphead]

About her religious views. Didn't she have a threescore before? You said an FFM. And didn't she gave sex with someone different men before marriage? How did she decide that those are okay and anything else isn't?
As someone said earlier, make sure she knows you don't want to lose her ever. This is just something you want to share with her, not to just throw her into without caring about the consequences.
She has to understand that you want to be involved. At first just by her sharing the experience with you ASAP after the fact. Eventually you would love to watch her enjoy another man while you masterbate.
And finally you would love to have a threesome with her and lick her clit while she is being fucked.
Additionally, if a woman is so shallow that they would give up a beautiful life they have built because someone rocks her world, then she should really think about what makes a great relationship. Most guys that want to be a part of your sex life, dont have much else to offer. Of course it will be better with someone else for a while. The excitement, fantasy, different ways of doing things and the titillation will be awesome. At least for a while. Wasn't it when you were trying to get in her panties. It's a chemical reaction.
It's unfair to fall in love with a guy who fucks her good while not suppling the rest of the love and support that make up your relationship. IMHO

[philxxo]

Yep. This is all true. I suppose she became more religious along the way. We have been having arguments lately, serious ones. Like talking about splitting. So this is no longer a good thing to be doing now.

She had some 3 some in the past, numerous men before me and also cheated on first husband, pretty shamelessly in fact. When I first suggested this to her. She was shocked but then seemed rather excited about the prospect. She was joking around about having a BF. She asked me how I thought we could go about it. Later told me she didn't have a problem with it except for her religion. Lately she acts like I am the devil for suggesting it in the first place, so obviously she has changed her mind on the subject. She just says that it isn't normal for me to not be jealous. She is insanely jealous by the way. And since we are not getting along lately, it's just another thing for her to throw in my face about why I am a bad husband. I explained all the usual - it's a benefit to her, me wanting her to have the best, it would be erotically exciting for both of us etc.

I am going to say my peace about this in the next couple of days and then not bring it up again. I haven't brought it up recently but I have talked about it when she brings it up in argument. But as I say, when she brings it up, it isn't a good thing.

[Mumfred]

Yep. This is all true. I suppose she became more religious along the way. We have been having arguments lately, serious ones. Like talking about splitting. So this is no longer a good thing to be doing now.

Sorry you guys are having a rough time.

[dinoo]

bbarnsworth wrote:

It's an absolutely false notion that you can't be romantically in love with more than one person at a time. We didn't feel her falling in love with another man would detract from us. If it did, if either of us felt like it was, then we'd pause things at least until we figured it all out. You won't know until you're in that situation exactly how it will work out for you. Is there risk? Sure, there's risk. But, if you love each other deeply and your commitment is strong, it's a very manageable risk.

"It's an absolutely false notion that you can't be romantically in love with more than one person at a time."
Yes, I think too it is very human.

"But, if you love each other deeply and your commitment is strong, it's a very manageable risk."
Well said but also very true.

Dinoo