Uncertain signals

[ItsANiceDay]

About four years ago my wife and I started playing around with the Hotwife fantasy. I slowly let on too her that it was ok to role play it, and she certainly enjoyed it.

During sex she would call me by ex-lovers’ names, we played with toys while she gave me head…. It was a lot of fun and put high-octane fuel back into our sex life. But one thing we did not really do is talk about the fantasy outside of the bedroom. She enjoys being sexually wild in the dark but once the sun is up she doesn’t want to talk about it.

We got pregnant. Being a mother again put a lot of brakes on everything. Sex became infrequent, and nevermind all that high-octane sex. The flavor of the month was vanilla.

But it hasn’t disappeared completely. About once in a month or two she will wake up in the morning, sidle up to me as I brew the coffee, with a sultry look on her face and tell me the following. It’s always the same:

“I almost feel guilty about the dream I had last night…. Another man was kissing me and I thought ‘oh no! But my husband!’ But then I thought to myself, ‘but it’s alright, my husband would not mind it at all if he kisses me!’”

This happens so often it seems rather like an invitation of sorts. And I admit that I have not always had a great reply… usually something half-hearted or dazed.But I definitely don’t discourage it.

What should I make of these signals? She is not really willing to flatly, openly discuss ENM in the daylight. It’s too business-like and I think drives Eros from the picture for her. But she does hit me with this playful confession of hers, once in a while.

[Bluetoed]

Confirm any assumption that she dreamed you made.

"No, I would not mind at all." With a big smile should be your response.

[ItsANiceDay]

Confirm any assumption that she dreamed you made.

"No, I would not mind at all." With a big smile should be your response.

Yes, I almost could bear to practice a response so I don’t have to think about it. The way she delivers the story is consistent enough and predictable. You’d think I’d have this figured out by now!

I’ll drill your suggestion into my head and see how it goes the next time.

[hubudig2]

If she's initiating these conversations, it's a perfect opportunity to get more comfortable talking about it.
If you feel like she's not ready for a serious conversation, keep the conversation flirty and in dream land, everything hypothetical.
Do you think she actually dreamt these things?
Either way, it's on her mind and her mind is possibly shifting towards it being a potential reality.
Might she be testing your reaction? Trying to gauge how you really feel about the idea?
Aim to get comfortable discussing it. Being able to openly discuss it with her will do wonders for your relationship and be much more accurate than strangers online speculating.

[athlete915]

I generally think that anything short of a wife running out of the room yelling "no" is a good sign, so I think you're doing great

In all seriousness, that young child phase is brutal, and it's totally understandable that things have slowed down. As you two recover and catch up on sleep, I would expect that you two will at least get back to where you were before, if not further. Just be patient and encouraging.

In the meantime, I have two concrete recommendations. First, role-play those morning scenarios out in your head and try to think of an encouraging response for her—something that lets her know you're excited about and very supportive of those thoughts. That way, you already have a game plan when it happens next and you won't struggle to come up with something in the moment.

Second, nothing says you can't have your own "dreams." You can always tell her one morning about a dream you had of her being with another man. You can use that to broach things like the type of guy you want for her, the scenario, etc. At a minimum, it will confirm that you are still thinking about it, and it may even give you an opportunity to start getting into more concrete/practical details.

Again, while I am sure the break has been tough, I still think you are in a good place. Many couples never even get to this point. She's still thinking about it and sharing those thoughts with you. It's also clear that you haven't lost your cuckold desires, which should confirm your own feelings. Just start working on getting the momentum back.

PS I would encourage you to think about some practical points of playing yourself. What type of guy would you like her to be with? Do you want something short-term or long-term? How often would you be comfortable with them seeing each other? Would you like to watch? If so, do you have to watch it every time? I could go on, but those are some good starting points. Knowing what you want will help prepare you for conversations with her.

[ItsANiceDay]

If she's initiating these conversations, it's a perfect opportunity to get more comfortable talking about it.
[…]
Do you think she actually dreamt these things?
Either way, it's on her mind and her mind is possibly shifting towards it being a potential reality.
[…]
Aim to get comfortable discussing it. Being able to openly discuss it with her will do wonders for your relationship and be much more accurate than strangers online speculating.

It is definitely she who is initiating at this point. I kind of gave up on the whole idea; thinking it was going nowhere, it seemed best to me to drop it altogether. A pie-in-the-sky fantasy is one you can keep up for a long time. I’ll never have sex with Natalie Portman, so it’s safe to keep that as a fantasy. But one that is possible and yet not realizable, is like a poison. So I abandoned all the role play, stopped the pillow talk. So it’s a pleasant thing when it comes back from her, even if she is maybe doing it because she thinks I like it and does it for my sake.

Now, I do think she has dreamt these things. It keeps coming up, and she is not one to keep up a pretense over a long period. This evening, she returned from a day of shopping and brought it up again, replaying the dream, but with the roles reversed; she told me “I want to tell you something” and then kissed me, which is what the man did to her in her dream. So yeah I think it’s on her mind.

[hubudig2]

So I abandoned all the role play, stopped the pillow talk. So it’s a pleasant thing when it comes back from her, even if she is maybe doing it because she thinks I like it and does it for my sake.

Doing it for your sake is probably better progress than you realise.
Submissive women enjoy doing things for you to enjoy and they build up an association with it over time until they just think of it as something they enjoy. There's also the aspect of normalising what was once a crazy fantasy. If you think about something enough and play with the idea enough, it starts to feel more "normal", it loses it's taboo and she'll start to question why it couldn't happen instead.

This evening, she returned from a day of shopping and brought it up again, replaying the dream, but with the roles reversed; she told me “I want to tell you something” and then kissed me, which is what the man did to her in her dream. So yeah I think it’s on her mind.

No doubt she saw other guys while she was shopping and caught herself fantasizing.
She probably misses the "high-octane" sex too but doesn't prioritise it and therefor lacks the drive/energy for it.
When she fantasizes about another guy, it will be like an "escape" (from everyday stresses/responsibilities), she will fantasize about having that drive/energy and feeling his energy for her.

Assuming you want her to pursue these thoughts, fuel her fire when she brings it up by exploring the idea with her, all the time making sure she knows you're supportive of it. If she now feels like this is her fantasy and she's the one pushing it, this is actually the perfect place to be. Supporting someone in pursuing their own idea is easier than trying to convince someone to pursue yours.

[philxxo]

I would run with it. She clearly likes the idea. My wife would never tell me any dreams like that. At this point she would be encouraging my fantasy and she doesn't want to do it now. It sounds like you are unsure if you really want her to be a hotwife in the flesh or not. Fantasy is safe, role play is safe. Another guy making her orgasm and dumping a load of cum into her pussy is different. You need to look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you really want it or not. If you do, then start encouraging and reinforcing it when these things come up. It will likely be the best sex your wife ever has. Strange new sex and BF sex are better and more exciting than married vanilla sex. It's just the way it is. It's nothing personal against you. I would not start pushing it, you want it to be her idea. But when she brings it up to you I would encourage it and reinforce to her that not only would it be OK, but in fact it's a huge turn on to you and you would in fact love it. If you do want to pursue this path don't ever show any jealousy. I did that once and it set me back. I now keep my emotions in check. Even when she does things that she would never allow me to do.

[ItsANiceDay]

Assuming you want her to pursue these thoughts, fuel her fire when she brings it up by exploring the idea with her, all the time making sure she knows you're supportive of it.

With all this in mind I decided to push a little last night. Especially after her coming home from shopping, since I knew this dream had been in her mind and not something that had fallen off her radar, as often happens.

So after the kids were put to bed we lay there talking about trivial things, I initiated sex by eating her out lazily. After a few minutes of that she began telling me about how one of her exes loved to do it slowly just like so. I asked her to tell me more, about what she liked about it, how he did it, and so on, so that she would keep thinking about him.

By the end of it I had her begging him to come into her. Which he did… I can’t remember coming as much as I did last night.

[ItsANiceDay]

[…] It sounds like you are unsure if you really want her to be a hotwife in the flesh or not. Fantasy is safe, role play is safe. Another guy making her orgasm and dumping a load of cum into her pussy is different. You need to look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you really want it or not.

At this point I think it is all very speculative about whether this goes beyond our own bedroom. We definitely like it there, and for now that’s my focus. If it ever goes beyond the bedroom I doubt it will be like diving in head-first. That would be imprudent I think. Better to go in slow stages, confirming it as it goes. But again even that is entirely speculative.

If you do, then start encouraging and reinforcing it when these things come up. It will likely be the best sex your wife ever has. Strange new sex and BF sex are better and more exciting than married vanilla sex. It's just the way it is. It's nothing personal against you. I would not start pushing it, you want it to be her

Agreed. If she doesn’t want it for herself then I don’t want it either.

If you do want to pursue this path don't ever show any jealousy. I did that once and it set me back. I now keep my emotions in check. Even when she does things that she would never allow me to do.

No doubt that would be a challenge. Wanting what is good for her, for her sake and not just for my own, is really worth working for.

[Statein88]

[…] It sounds like you are unsure if you really want her to be a hotwife in the flesh or not. Fantasy is safe, role play is safe. Another guy making her orgasm and dumping a load of cum into her pussy is different. You need to look at yourself in the mirror and decide if you really want it or not.

At this point I think it is all very speculative about whether this goes beyond our own bedroom. We definitely like it there, and for now that’s my focus. If it ever goes beyond the bedroom I doubt it will be like diving in head-first. That would be imprudent I think. Better to go in slow stages, confirming it as it goes. But again even that is entirely speculative.

If you do, then start encouraging and reinforcing it when these things come up. It will likely be the best sex your wife ever has. Strange new sex and BF sex are better and more exciting than married vanilla sex. It's just the way it is. It's nothing personal against you. I would not start pushing it, you want it to be her

Agreed. If she doesn’t want it for herself then I don’t want it either.

If you do want to pursue this path don't ever show any jealousy. I did that once and it set me back. I now keep my emotions in check. Even when she does things that she would never allow me to do.

No doubt that would be a challenge. Wanting what is good for her, for her sake and not just for my own, is really worth working for.

I’ve joked with my wife (and kind of not joked) about the “mixed signals”, but I think that can just be someone’s personality and mind processing what they’re feeling and thinking about. I’ve felt like at times she’d talk about it like it was going to happen, but when I brought it up to discuss in a non-fantasy manner she’d act like she wasn’t interested in the real thing. We’ve ironed that “miscommunication” out since, but I think it’s common. Some days they just really might not know if they want to, same for us as potential HW husbands.

We’re also smack in the middle of the fantasy/role play stage and I’m not sure if it will go beyond that. We are taking it very slowly.

She’s stated recently that she’d like to dabble (as she puts it), but not move in to this as a constant lifestyle where it’s the driving force in our sex life. From what I gather she’d like some occasional fun but with zero commitment and longer term emotional investment.

Some days/weeks it’s her getting cold feet, some days/weeks it’s me. Honestly right now it’s probably mostly me. Some of the stories I’ve read on here really gave me a reason to examine some things. I’ve seen many case studies here where it seems the husband either quickly becomes secondary and is having to agree to things he really doesn’t want, or it turns in to drama and conflict and I don’t want that for us. We both value our relationship above all else, and I think that’s where the hang up is.

And same as you, I’ve told her if she doesn’t want it for herself, I don’t want it either. I see a lot of men who want to get their SO in HW action so bad they don’t seem to consider how she feels about all of it. Not judging anyone’s dynamic, but it’s either both of us “all-in”, or nothing.

[ItsANiceDay]

She’s stated recently that she’d like to dabble (as she puts it), but not move in to this as a constant lifestyle where it’s the driving force in our sex life. From what I gather she’d like some occasional fun but with zero commitment and longer term emotional investment.

I think she has it right.

Our hotwives should be the center of our obsession; the fetish, kink, lifestyle, etc needs to be at the service of the marriage and not the other way ‘round.

[Statein88]

She’s stated recently that she’d like to dabble (as she puts it), but not move in to this as a constant lifestyle where it’s the driving force in our sex life. From what I gather she’d like some occasional fun but with zero commitment and longer term emotional investment.

I think she has it right.

Our hotwives should be the center of our obsession; the fetish, kink, lifestyle, etc needs to be at the service of the marriage and not the other way ‘round.

Yep and I agree with her (and you) 100%.

[philxxo]

Once the toothpaste is out of the tube it's hard to get it back in. Once a wife starts it could be a Pandora's box. Once the genie is out of the bottle it doesn't necessarily go back in. I read some stories on here and I have come to the conclusion that this is potentially a risky fetish to have. But I still have the fantasy badly. Some of these guys get practically pussy free and I am thinking to myself why does she still need you for anything? And that is how some marriages get destroyed. But the fantasy has such a huge pull on us anyway. Regardless, thinking about it and talking about it with the wife is still so much fun even if it never happens. Just go into it with open eyes. Mutually agree on what the rules will be and stick to them. Also be agreeable to change the rules if either one of you needs to. Mostly just enjoy the ride if it never happens. I get happy when my wife tells me she saw a cute guy, even if it's only on TV. I get pleased when another guy flirts with her or gives her extra attention. I enjoy hearing about past boyfriends. It's often the little things in life.

[ItsANiceDay]

I read some stories on here and I have come to the conclusion that this is potentially a risky fetish to have. But I still have the fantasy badly. Some of these guys get practically pussy free and I am thinking to myself why does she still need you for anything? And that is how some marriages get destroyed.

Anyone who puts a fetish ahead of their marriage runs a danger of sacrificing the marriage to the fetish. In fact I think the only responsible way to address a kink is to put it in its proper place in service of the marriage.

Maybe that’s naive of me. Maybe it is too powerful a thing to flirt with, thinking that you can bring a third or a fourth or The Denver Broncos into the marriage bed. All the more reason for caution and for going slowly, if at all.

[Bluetoed]

Some of these guys get practically pussy free and I am thinking to myself why does she still need you for anything?

Some of these guys go way beyond just being pussy free. Like, some of them end up sleeping in the basement while the wife's boyfriend permanently moves into their master bedroom.

I'm convinced they aren't really turned on by their wife having sex with another man at all. They are turned on by humiliation, and the wife having sex with man to them is just one of many ways to trigger the humiliation that turn them on. I don't relate at all to those feelings.

For example, for me it would be hot as hell to watch my wife have sex. I wouldn't be able to get a good enough view for that show. I'd be moving all around the room getting a view from as many different angles as I could. But these humiliation guys want to be tied down and gagged while they watch, as if what they are seeing is hard for them to watch. I can't relate to that at all. I'd be cheering like I am at the Superbowl, yet they want to feel like their world just collapsed so that they feel humiliation from it.

In fact, it bothers me that I'm "categorized" to be grouped with them. We aren't the same at all.

[Marksmall5]

Personally l think about these scenarios and have my answers ready to roll off the tongue.

[ItsANiceDay]

In fact, it bothers me that I'm "categorized" to be grouped with them. We aren't the same at all.

I’ll second that. While I like to hear my wife talk about her ex-lovers and we like to think about what it might be like for her to be with other guys, or for me to share her with a friend in a sizzling hot MFM, I hesitate to send her to this website or use the word “hotwife” (a word I like very much) with her because I don’t want her to get the idea that I want to be caged and humiliated and called a dickless cuck.

“No honey no! Go to the Stag/Vixen board!!”

[Statein88]

In fact, it bothers me that I'm "categorized" to be grouped with them. We aren't the same at all.

I’ll second that. While I like to hear my wife talk about her ex-lovers and we like to think about what it might be like for her to be with other guys, or for me to share her with a friend in a sizzling hot MFM, I hesitate to send her to this website or use the word “hotwife” (a world I like very much) with her because I don’t want her to get the idea that I want to be caged and humiliated and called a dickless cuck.

“No honey no! Go to the Stag/Vixen board!!”

100%

[Bluetoed]

In fact, it bothers me that I'm "categorized" to be grouped with them. We aren't the same at all.

I’ll second that. While I like to hear my wife talk about her ex-lovers and we like to think about what it might be like for her to be with other guys, or for me to share her with a friend in a sizzling hot MFM, I hesitate to send her to this website or use the word “hotwife” (a world I like very much) with her because I don’t want her to get the idea that I want to be caged and humiliated and called a dickless cuck.

“No honey no! Go to the Stag/Vixen board!!”

OMG! Totally! Imagine your wife decides to get on board with this kink, only to find out her research was dominated by the humiliation guys, and now she expects to peg you while telling you to fluff her bull!

[ItsANiceDay]

OMG! Totally! Imagine your wife decides to get on board with this kink, only to find out her research was dominated by the humiliation guys, and now she expects to peg you while telling you to fluff her bull!

“But baby… isn’t this is what you wanted?”

Maybe there is something to this “communication” thing after all.

[harmankard]

In fact, it bothers me that I'm "categorized" to be grouped with them. We aren't the same at all.

I’ll second that. While I like to hear my wife talk about her ex-lovers and we like to think about what it might be like for her to be with other guys, or for me to share her with a friend in a sizzling hot MFM, I hesitate to send her to this website or use the word “hotwife” (a word I like very much) with her because I don’t want her to get the idea that I want to be caged and humiliated and called a dickless cuck.

“No honey no! Go to the Stag/Vixen board!!”

You’re definitely making progress! Keep it up! Keep chatting! Keep asking about those dreams!

Babies and toddlers kill energy and sizzling sex lives. I recommend grabbing a hotel even if it’s down the street. Might help reinvigorate. Don’t wait for true vacations. I’m speaking from experience here.

[ItsANiceDay]

You’re definitely making progress! Keep it up! Keep chatting! Keep asking about those dreams!

At this point, I have to wonder if the progress is hers to make. She knows I’m into it; if she is too, and wants to progress, then she’ll continue to initiate if my response is to generously ply her with orgasms and adoring approval. That is my plan, anyways.

[harmankard]

You’re definitely making progress! Keep it up! Keep chatting! Keep asking about those dreams!

At this point, I have to wonder if the progress is hers to make. She knows I’m into it; if she is too, and wants to progress, then she’ll continue to initiate if my response is to generously ply her with orgasms and adoring approval. That is my plan, anyways.

I do think you are close to need the actual talk with her btw. I had it, it’s freeing.

[Statein88]

You’re definitely making progress! Keep it up! Keep chatting! Keep asking about those dreams!

At this point, I have to wonder if the progress is hers to make. She knows I’m into it; if she is too, and wants to progress, then she’ll continue to initiate if my response is to generously ply her with orgasms and adoring approval. That is my plan, anyways.

So it’s my understanding (please correct me if I’m wrong) that you’ve definitely brought it up in the fantasy sense, but you’ve never actually told her outright in a serious manner this is something you’d like to try as a couple?