Economic Reality and Playing

[zorro]

Tank, do know I have really enjoyed and concur with your experience and attitudes about the HW lifestyle. You have nailed that one.

As for your right-wing tropes about the economy and politics, I would agree that you have drunk the Kool-Aid and would be better off keeping your biased ideological beliefs off the Forum.

Although I could debate your alternative truths, I would prefer that we all move on.

I do agree the economy is tightening a bit due to a whole host of factors, and your question about whether this impacts lifestyle activity is valid. But your excursion into confirmation bias is extraneous and unbecoming. Trying to support your points with sales pitches from Cassandra snake oil salesmen like Doug Casey (still predicting the collapse of the American economy just as he did from Petaluma in 1980) is not at all persuasive.

Play on!

[LawyerWouldbeCuckold]

Merely curious, Lawyer: can you please tell me the economic construct America has?

Tank,

I'm not an economist, so I'll hazard a guess and say "Capitalism with some state regulation".

To your earlier points, yes, I did (intentionally) exclude states in terms of illegal immigrants receiving public benefits. K-12 education and emergency room care are federal mandates on the states, and all states have to provide those things to "persons' within their borders, regardless of that's person's legal status or lack thereof. Whatever a state chooses to provide is up to that State's legislator, Governor, and ultimately their voters.

Also addressing your earlier points- and I think this is funny given the website we have "met" on - there isn't enough fucking going on. (Well, maybe there is, but not enough children are being produced).

At my previous job, my supervisor and one of my co-workers each had two children. But my two best friends in the office only had one. Both my law school crushes each only had one child. (They were both well-endowed blondes- what can I say- I have a "type"- LOL!!!!)

Replacement rate for a society is 2.1 live births per women. Unless I'm mistaken, the US native-born population fell below that in 1979 or 1980. The only thing that is sparing us the demographic fate of Japan, South Korea, and Italy is both immigrants (legal and non-legal) and the number of children - at least the number of children the first immigrant generation has brings with them. Second and third generation immigrants have less children.

Now, obviously, I'm not advocating for illegal immigration. But I recognize several things- one, there is a severe labor shortage in the US right now; and it's not getting any better. Two, the largest generation (previously) in US history- the Baby Boomers- are entering their twilight years, and 20% of them are dead already. My generation (I'm probably one of the oldest X-er's, having been born in 1962) is starting to get up there. The largest generation currently alive, the Millennials, are not producing enough children.

Without a growing population- and a growing young population- our economy won't grow enough to produce the tax base (and the laborers) that our society needs to produce goods and services and do the jobs that White and Black people simply will not do. No one else other than immigrants (both legal and not) is going to work in those fields, those farms, and those slaughterhouses to produce the goods this country needs.

Do a Google on "Italy" "Japan", "South Korea" and the term "Demographic Death Spiral". Now, in 22-25 years, it won't many any difference to me, b/c I'll be gone. But I'm fearful of where the US is heading without enough population growth.

[Tank Turner]

Good Morning Lawyer,

You're right. The USA, like many countries, cannot repopulate itself. However, the concerns with open borders is we do not know who's entering. Fentanyl OD's have skyrocketed. Parents of dead kids might have a much different opinion on how America should repopulate itself. Parents of kids who were murdered by illegal immigrants would have a different opinion on how America repopulates itself.

We have no idea of who's entering our country.

Middle Eastern countries pulled Marielito Boatlifts on European countries. They cleared out their prisons and psychiatric hospitals and sent inmates and patients to European countries. We've seen how that turned out. That is what Central American countries are pulling on us. Cartels are taking advantage of our open border to flood America with fentanyl.

Is an open border worth OD deaths? Do American taxpayers want to compromise the quality of their lives, especially their kids' lives by footing bills for illegal immigrants?

[Tank Turner]

Tank, do know I have really enjoyed and concur with your experience and attitudes about the HW lifestyle. You have nailed that one.

As for your right-wing tropes about the economy and politics, I would agree that you have drunk the Kool-Aid and would be better off keeping your biased ideological beliefs off the Forum.

Although I could debate your alternative truths, I would prefer that we all move on.

I do agree the economy is tightening a bit due to a whole host of factors, and your question about whether this impacts lifestyle activity is valid. But your excursion into confirmation bias is extraneous and unbecoming. Trying to support your points with sales pitches from Cassandra snake oil salesmen like Doug Casey (still predicting the collapse of the American economy just as he did from Petaluma in 1980) is not at all persuasive. Play on!

Dear zorro,

Please refrain from ad hominem rejoinders. Ad hominem is logical fallacy. Rather than attacking me, you would have demonstrated legitimacy by attacking FACTS that I've posted.

As to your assumptions about my political affiliation, you couldn't have been more wrong. I am not Republican. I am not Democrat. I am not Independent. I am not Libertarian. I shun labels. Labels are used to attack people, not arguments.

I'm fact-oriented. Fantasies result in lost money. Investors conduct exhaustive research before investing. They want facts, not fantasies.

Here's a fact. San Francisco used to be America's most beautiful big city. Now it's a cesspool. It's hemorrhaging productive residents and tax base. Revenue generating stores are bailing on the city. Those are facts. I'm sure that you're more than willing to relocate San Francisco's criminals and homeless to Sausalito. I'm sure you have room in your home to accommodate a few criminals who've forced businesses (tax revenue) to leave SF. So tell me, zorro, exactly what have you done to help SF's lost tax revenue? How mush $$$ have you donated to the city to cover lost tax revenue? How much $$$ have you sent to Mayor Adams to prevent NYC's BK?

zorro, if you feel compelled to respond, please respond to facts I've posted. Ad hominem responses undermine your credibility. I'm good with Socratic debate. I'm not good with personal attacks.

[allways]

What lawyerwouldbe cuckold has said is spot on but it is not only American that is being overwhelmed by illegal immigrants. We had a similar problem in Australia with illegal boat people in the 90's. Only the fact we had a conservative Prime minister who had balls and said we will choose who can come and live in Australia not the left wing loonies We would be facing the same problem the US, Europe, the UK and to a lesser degree Canada has.

Free trade has been good for the 2nd and 3rd world but has caused a diminuation in the middle class throughout the developed countries. A lot of the low paying jobs went overseas. The universities had to be dumbed down to accept all these kids who no longer after high school could go out and earn a reasonable salary for the low skills they had. When I was growing up it was only the top 15% that had the brains to go to University.

Today most of the Universities are sausage factories having brainwashed most of the young with the idea that the free enterprise system is evil. As the song from the Album Dark side of the Moon Pink Floyd released in 1973 said "the lunatics are on the grass". We now live in a dystopian world and history is about to deliver an economic collapse that will be as bad as the 1930,s

[Tank Turner]

Hi allways,

Lawyerwouldbecuckold posts indicate that he supports open borders without regard to lives lost, destroyed, and compromised. While I do not agree with his opinion, he's entitled it.

American parents raising kids would have a much different opinion than lawyer's.

[allways]

Sorry Tank I was reading only part of the thread it should have been you that I agreed with .

[Cookiescream]

This thread does not belong on this forum. I hope the admins remove it. When you start using scare tactics like “illegals killing children” you sound fucking stupid.

[HWJRJ18]

Not quite that good, I’m afraid. You made me curious, so I googled the new contract, and according to the Teamsters who negotiated it, the new contract raises the average top rate a driver can earn to $49/hour, so presumably that would be a driver with many years of seniority.

Still, that’s pretty damned good money!

(Sorry for the digression from the topic under discussion, I just thought this was a really interesting bit of info!)

Actually, there is a 48 month pay progression for Package Drivers. It was only two years when I started. Most are making over $100K now, depending on how much overtime they work. The max is 60 hours per week (20 of that OT), which is doable depending on the climate you work in. Feeder drivers (tractor-trailer) can work 70 hours per week and the Sleeper team drivers are paid the highest mileage rates in the Country & OT at various parts of their day where they are not driving. Lots of those guys are making $200k. There are also opportunities for triple time. But that's not the whole story: the pension is fantastic & healthcare is excellent & paid (depending on where in the country you are.) Early retirement, in my region, is available at PEER 80, which allowed me to retire comfortably at 49. Anyone looking for a good job that isn't afraid of hard work should look at UPS (and thank the Teamsters). Preferable regions are the Western States, Chicago, L-177 in New Jersey, New England States.

No the 'cooling economy' hasn't affected us at all. We sold two houses for twice what we paid, both over asking price, even with higher interest rates (still lower than what I bought my first house for). Deals for going abroad are there, you just have to look for them.

[Parsifal]

What happened to the "AND PLAYING" part of the topic of this thread?

My wife is always in demand. The supply curve is the only curve on her that's inelastic. The demand curve bends however much she dictates to satisfy her needs. She pays for nothing. And she's not a cheap date.

[carstonmathers]

Well, my employment status was touch and go for three quarters, but I made it through two rounds of layoffs intact and recently switched to something less tenuous and more secure. So we kept spending low for a while in case we needed to dip into savings during possible unemployment. But all good now. My industry is towards the end of its recovery. I haven't really noticed inflation, but we don't rent and haven't bought a car since 2010. If anything some stuff seems cheaper because some manufactures went nuts on inventory in 2021.

Everything seems more or less back to where it was before the pandemic (from my perspective at least, I'm sure others have different views). Now I'm saving up for the new metal roof + solar + rainwater collection system that we've planned for 2027 or 2028.

The wife has now decided she only wants to date women for a while, so it is what it is.

[runaway]

We’re wannabes so maybe the answer is different for us. After a six month set of distractions I’m back to feeling great and dreaming about her with a young, hung stud. When I wake up feeling particularly horny by the dream I’ll enthusiastically- and hornily - rub her feet for 10-15 minutes.
It can continue into a full body massage if there’s enough lotion. By the time I’m done she’s putty in my hands and we both feel fantastic.

Total cost: a portion of an economy bottle of body lotion.

Extra points for heating it up.

She knows what an energetic morning foot rub means - I’m imaging her going on a date.

She feels great, I feel great and all is right with the world.

And I don’t need to be rich to enjoy it.

[LawyerWouldbeCuckold]

Hi allways,

Lawyerwouldbecuckold posts indicate that he supports open borders without regard to lives lost, destroyed, and compromised. While I do not agree with his opinion, he's entitled it.

American parents raising kids would have a much different opinion than lawyer's.

Tank,

I do not support open borders; and I don't think I've ever said that. Secure and defensible borders are an essential element of any nation's sovereignty; for that reason, I simply do not support "open borders".

I do support an immigration system that gives us the workers that we need- both skilled and unskilled- and that also enables us to correct the imbalance in replacement rates that I've addressed previously. Unfortunately, that's not the system we have right now; and I don't see the political will in the US to get us to a workable immigration system; so right now, we have a system that does not give our country what it really needs.

I also support the removal of immigrants (both legal and non-legal) that abuse our hospitality and threaten public safety.

But as far as "lives lost, destroyed and compromised"....I can't speak to conditions in So Cal (I'm assuming you live in Cali; northern or southern Cali, I have no clue) but I will this about the majority of illegal immigrants -----------> Drive through states like Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Oregon, Wyoming, and then head to states like North and South Carolina. If you are driving through small and smallish towns, you'll see (percentage-wise) huge numbers of illegals. Some of them have been living there for decades. Some of them live in large cities for decades.

And they all know that as long as they fly under the radar, law enforcement and immigration enforcement won't find them. So, despite popular mythology about "lives lost and destroyed", on a percentage basis, it's a lot less than lives lost and destroyed from native-born American lawbreakers.

[zorro]

zorro, if you feel compelled to respond, please respond to facts I've posted. Ad hominem responses undermine your credibility. I'm good with Socratic debate. I'm not good with personal attacks.

My experience has been that this site brings together people with a very wide political outlook, both progressive and right-wing, any of whom usually tend to or outright support sexual libertarianism.

I think you have missed the big message, judging by your responses. I have been on OHW for almost 2 decades (including prior iterations). This is a site dedicated to exploring and assisting people who are interested in HW and related NCM activities. It is not a political forum. Arguing "facts" during this time of made-up alternative facts is a waste of time and unlikely to persuade anybody. It will just eat up valuable OHW band width.

I am suggesting that you stick to the subject matter people come here for and take your political theories to sites appropriate for ideological argumentation such as X or other right-wing sites.

Then you can be happy to talk to others who think like you do. And we can be happy focusing on the sexual lives of the beautiful women on here (including your delightfully hot hotwife).

[Wifesharing]

zorro, if you feel compelled to respond, please respond to facts I've posted. Ad hominem responses undermine your credibility. I'm good with Socratic debate. I'm not good with personal attacks.

My experience has been that this site brings together people with a very wide political outlook, both progressive and right-wing, any of whom usually tend to or outright support sexual libertarianism.

I think you have missed the big message, judging by your responses. I have been on OHW for almost 2 decades (including prior iterations). This is a site dedicated to exploring and assisting people who are interested in HW and related NCM activities. It is not a political forum. Arguing "facts" during this time of made-up alternative facts is a waste of time and unlikely to persuade anybody. It will just eat up valuable OHW band width.

I am suggesting that you stick to the subject matter people come here for and take your political theories to sites appropriate for ideological argumentation such as X or other right-wing sites.

Then you can be happy to talk to others who think like you do. And we can be happy focusing on the sexual lives of the beautiful women on here (including your delightfully hot hotwife).

I second this, This is not a politic discussion board. People in this lifestyle fall on both sides, we come here to discuss this lifestyle not to have political debates. The question asked was a good question and fit this forum but it has now turned into a pissing match with nothing to do with Hot wife stuff.

You have got your points out there several times as have others. We should get back to the question posed or move on.

[Tank Turner]

zorro, if you feel compelled to respond, please respond to facts I've posted. Ad hominem responses undermine your credibility. I'm good with Socratic debate. I'm not good with personal attacks.

My experience has been that this site brings together people with a very wide political outlook, both progressive and right-wing, any of whom usually tend to or outright support sexual libertarianism.

I think you have missed the big message, judging by your responses. I have been on OHW for almost 2 decades (including prior iterations). This is a site dedicated to exploring and assisting people who are interested in HW and related NCM activities. It is not a political forum. Arguing "facts" during this time of made-up alternative facts is a waste of time and unlikely to persuade anybody. It will just eat up valuable OHW band width.

I am suggesting that you stick to the subject matter people come here for and take your political theories to sites appropriate for ideological argumentation such as X or other right-wing sites.

Then you can be happy to talk to others who think like you do. And we can be happy focusing on the sexual lives of the beautiful women on here (including your delightfully hot hotwife).

You had an ulterior motive to transition an apolitical topic to political.

I missed to message. You tried to stuff your political ideology down everyone's throat. Next time, keep yor ideologies to yourself. No one cares about your political ideologies.

How long you've been a member conveys no gravitas. It conveys nothing, It's logical fallacy.

The fact is our economy to include inflation that the Fed cannot arrest prevents members from exploring options.