Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[slenderfish]

So we did speak at length about texting and communication. Mr. S' text from yesterday was a natural on-ramp for the conversation. Rather than accuse or get in her face about lack of sharing texts, I instead merely asked if she had sent or received any texts since his last text on New Year's Day. She replied none.

I realized that she had shared texts with me almost without fail since we'd spoken about it, and that her deleting texts is really more of just her habit. I did take the opportunity to ask, in now being a natural extension of the conversation, if there had been any telephone activity, given that he'd indicated he prefers voice calls to texts. Again, answer was none.

I mentioned that I recall her text on Dec 25 or Dec 26 indicating that she was going to call him, and wondered if she had done so. She thought back and said she did call him but was disappointed that he didn't answer. She left a voicemail and he never called back.

So she has not mentioned anything about Mr. S and i quickly concluded it's because she is again disappointed that he doesn't dote over her or really pursue it. She again noted that his texts are basically perfunctory and that he doesn't answer or return her call, to speak live.

I told her I feel disappointed for her and, by extension, for me.

There's more, and I'll share it later. We are at a sort of standoff with respect to Mr. S and the future with him. Had a bit of a disagreement and difficult conversation as to a direction they seem to possibly be heading, based on my observations.

[G_and_F]

I love this thread - the in depth thought and analysis of every twist and turn - read the whole thing from start and check everyday for updates

Haven't commented thus far, but sounds like you have an incredible hotwife - but not the hotwife you wanted and now your trying to 'top from the bottom'. Maybe revell in the fact she is actually embracing hotwifing but not in the shape you envisioned

[armyguyot1]

Welcome to the forum G_and_F.

[BallSpanking]

Different expectations, different reads.
I think SW reads Mr S as a possible BF, while Mr S views SW as a potential booty call.
I expected this would lead to difficulties for SW down the road.
We are getting down the road ... and I wonder if she has detected the reasons for her discontent.

[Parsifal]

I told her I feel disappointed for her and, by extension, for me.

Been there too. She becomes such an extension of you - your powers enhanced vicariously by hers, your own ego submerged in hers - such that any setback she feels, however trifling, however unjustified, hurts you to to quick. The pain I feel in those situations is also jealousy - how can someone so inferior to her have such an affect on her?

[slenderfish]

Different expectations, different reads.
I think SW reads Mr S as a possible BF, while Mr S views SW as a potential booty call.
I expected this would lead to difficulties for SW down the road.
We are getting down the road ... and I wonder if she has detected the reasons for her discontent.

This is pretty much the source of our difficult conversation. I took the opportunity during our discussion, while we were on the subject, and after she owned up that she did call Mr. S. I said that she seems to not quite fully get the concept from my side of the ledger and that I do appreciate her ongoing efforts to share their communications, it kind of ruins the goodies for me in that it's apparent she resists this concept of sharing and that she is only doing it to "check the box" with me. I noted she seems to be trending toward more of a boyfriend situation that she prefers to keep to herself. I asked her impressions of how she feels in this regard, and she said that would like to have some things with him just for herself, is that so wrong?

I answered that it's not wrong but that being a hotwife is something we do together and that we share, and reminded her that in my book it's tending to feel more and more like she prefers it be a boyfriend about whom I'm aware. I said this amounts to an affair with permission, wherein I painted myself into a corner and she effectively took advantage of my hotwife kink.

She was not happy about the phone call she forgot to note, and (I later realized) she didn't offer whether she ever replied to his New Year's Day text and if so, what she wrote. I told her I didn't want to be in the position of wondering and then policing her on these matters, and the her apparent resistance to sharing is causing this situation. I asked her to consider spending some time reading up on what a hotwife relationship means to many other people, to get some perspective. That our (her) making it up as she goes along is certainly going to result in unnecessary stumbles.

I then added that I have decided it is too much of an ask from her that I leave town if and when she makes any arrangement for Mr. S to visit her. That my ego and manhood won't let that happen. That if my plans have me away anyway, it's different. That I'll be happy with her visiting him in whatever hotel he decides to stay, etc. but that a hotwife situation has her returning home, to me, after her encounters. She said that she still isn't comfortable with that and therefore she will likely keep to the prior plan of only seeing him when she is out of state, in his area while visiting her family and friends. I encouraged her to reflect inward as to what is behind all that, and observed that over the long term that does become more and more like a disclosed affair. She said that in her mind the voicemails and the reclaim after she gets home have been what I requested and she's good with those, and that's the arrangement. Why am I changing it on her?

I answered that, as she may recall, I'd originally discussed the hotwife concept and she said it was a lot to take in all at once, and that she might be willing to start out in a limited way via the visits to her hometown, finding a guy for that. I had encouraged this as a first effort to "dip her toe" in the lifestyle. That the voicemails and the reclaims (and sharing texts) are really just me being okay with little crumbs because that's all there is. And that it remains my expectation that over time and as she decides she the lifestyle works for her, it trend more toward what I'd originally proposed and requested. She said she is fine with how it presently stands and doesn't desire any changes at this point.

Anyway, it wasn't the best conversation but it had to happen.

She got defensive (a normal response) and ultimately said that I'm overreacting and that the reality is Mr. S has not communicated much (hardly at all), nor has she. She said he is a very nice and kind man and has become more of "a friend" and that he has not requested anything like pics of her tits or phone sex, etc. and that's probably a good thing because it's not really her style. That it's COVID times and at this point there is no plan or expectation of getting together. That we have what we have, and we need to accept it and make the best of it. That he believes she is in an open marriage and knows nothing about any hotwife situation, so it's just a limitation that exists. That I didn't need to get all into it about the future, etc.; instead we should be focusing on the present and taking it as it presently exists, which is very close to nothing.

I said that I needed to get this stuff off my chest so that she will know my thinking, and not be surprised as we go down the road, etc.

So we both made some good points and I do better understand her perspective. And I am certain she now better understands mine. She will have plenty of time for it to absorb.

[solstice]

Would Slenderwife be quite happy for you to have a private life, I am not suggesting you should, but if the shoe were on the other foot and she were not privy to your thoughts or relationships, can't remember if she is happy for you to spread your sexual wings also.

[afagehi7]

I'd say that she can have some private things with mr S but the vast majority should be a shared experience. Does she know specifically what she wants to keep private? And why?

[BallSpanking]

I only wonder if the geographic distance, and emotional distance established thereby, does not 'impose' a FB relationship ...?
Certainly it is NOT the BF/GF relationship that SW would usually have/expect.

In a way, you don't have to lay down the law in that respect because the sheer infrequency of their contacts will necessitate a FB status.
I think she will come to that conclusion from her own observations.

[Parsifal]

The "classy" hotwife is a complex soul. She's living within, and rooted to, a framework of propriety, where her old fashioned morals, roles, and social forms are still very much a part of her living identity. The affairs you and she generally agree she can have don't easily fit within those constructs. The new relationships can't be easily integrated, making the points of connection awkward. You are a fellow traveler in the process. You both encourage the grafts to her previous persona but I your role as husband you represent the rootedness of the other world from which a newer her is emerging. Your goal must be to grow with her and not become compartmentalized inside of the skin she's shedding. How to do that? Your instinct in right in that you feel her need for too much privacy in her other world puts you at risk of being left behind. You don't want to be the Moses who leads her to the Promised Land, so to speak, and stays behind while she crosses over. I view this as a crisis and a challenge that has to be surmounted in order for your open marriage to thrive. She has to be persuaded, cajoled, and seduced to let you share her life on both sides of the River Jordan, to be rooted with her as part of her traditional persona and also fully complicit in the new world opening up to her as a Siren for other men's attentions and desires. If during the process of growth she must hide from herself, make her see that you love and accept both sides, the hidden and hiding sides both, and that you want to straddle the two with her (no pun intended).

[afagehi7]

The "classy" hotwife is a complex soul. She's living within, and rooted to, a framework of propriety, where her old fashioned morals, roles, and social forms are still very much a part of her living identity. The affairs you and she generally agree she can have don't easily fit within those constructs. The new relationships can't be easily integrated, making the points of connection awkward. You are a fellow traveler in the process. You both encourage the grafts to her previous persona but I your role as husband you represent the rootedness of the other world from which a newer her is emerging. Your goal must be to grow with her and not become compartmentalized inside of the skin she's shedding. How to do that? Your instinct in right in that you feel her need for too much privacy in her other world puts you at risk of being left behind. You don't want to be the Moses who leads her to the Promised Land, so to speak, and stays behind while she crosses over. I view this as a crisis and a challenge that has to be surmounted in order for your open marriage to thrive. She has to be persuaded, cajoled, and seduced to let you share her life on both sides of the River Jordan, to be rooted with her as part of her traditional persona and also fully complicit in the new world opening up to her as a Siren for other men's attentions and desires. If during the process of growth she must hide from herself, make her see that you love and accept both sides, the hidden and hiding sides both, and that you want to straddle the two with her (no pun intended).

Women are so dang complicated.

[slenderfish]

New subject matter. Her birthday.

She has asked for a small(ish) gathering here at our place; yesterday we invited about 10 other people to attend.

She had texted Mr. B separately last week to ask him if he would be able to join on the proposed date, and he confirmed yes. She hasn't communicated unilaterally with him since this past September.

Ms. M is also planning to come into town for the party, first Saturday in February.

Mr. S is stuck in the Midwest and wouldn't be integrated into this group anyway. His birthday is the same day as Pinky's, so their discussion about possibly celebrating together was necessarily going to have to take place a week before or a week after the actual birthday weekend. But within the present environment, not going to happen.

Although I am finally going to get my "ski" on this upcoming weekend, and she's suddenly talking about "her" trip since I'm having one for me.

I told her if she finds a friend who has a private jet and can host her in a 4,500 s.f. vacation ski home then she's welcome to the weekend of her choice.

Touché!

[afagehi7]

Ms. M or Mr. M? I assumed a typo but I thought I would check as there may be a Ms M friend I don't remember.

[slenderfish]

Ms. M or Mr. M? I assumed a typo but I thought I would check as there may be a Ms M friend I don't remember.

Ms. M. She is the one who pushed Pinky to do the lapdances and then to get the stripper pole. She is in the red dress if you've seen the lapdance video.

[BallSpanking]

I told her if she finds a friend who has a private jet and can host her in a 4,500 s.f. vacation ski home then she's welcome to the weekend of her choice.

Now, if she actually found that ...

[afagehi7]

I told her if she finds a friend who has a private jet and can host her in a 4,500 s.f. vacation ski home then she's welcome to the weekend of her choice.

Now, if she actually found that ...

Didn't Ares find that guy? Haha haha

[slenderfish]

I told her if she finds a friend who has a private jet and can host her in a 4,500 s.f. vacation ski home then she's welcome to the weekend of her choice.

Now, if she actually found that ...

Didn't Ares find that guy? Haha haha

Oh, those guys are around and we've run into them. But Pinky wasn't Pinky back then....

[slenderfish]

New subject matter. Her birthday.

It'll be interesting to see any difference in her demeanor or anything, versus the last such gathering (the "moving-away party" for Ms. M) in October, before SW became Pinky the Hotwife. For that matter, given that she didn't attend that party (she remained in her bedroom the whole time never came out) it really goes back to early September, around Labor Day, just after we'd had the hotwife conversation but before she even had her first in-person meetup with Mr. S.

Especially with respect to Mr. B.

Pinky specifically excluded Ms. R. (Mr. B's off-again, on-again plaything) from the invitation list. She even went so far as to ask me to let Mr. B know that she (Pinky) prefers he attend as a solo man, to avoid any confusion or awkwardness in advance.

[BallSpanking]

Do you expect to see a difference in SW's demeanor among her friends after becoming a HW?
Granted that last time she was a no-show to her own party, but I doubt she would publicly let on something so private.
If there is a close encounter to be had among that group, I imagine she would make it happen, but if she did, I am sure she would keep it private.

Are you seeing a marked difference in her behavior and dress, or in her demeanor day to day?

[afagehi7]

Any chance she's going to finally have Mr B on the up and up?

[slenderfish]

Would Slenderwife be quite happy for you to have a private life, I am not suggesting you should, but if the shoe were on the other foot and she were not privy to your thoughts or relationships, can't remember if she is happy for you to spread your sexual wings also.

She has, in the heat of the conversation, said a couple of times that perhaps she might prefer a more typical "monogamish" relationship wherein we both have "don't ask-don't tell" attitudes.

She has indicated to Mr. S that she can see him because she is in an "open marriage."

I never really put these two together, and don't know if they even go together. But it's a new postulate I'm now going to keep in the mix as a possibility of where she may be heading.

My reply to her monogamish point (and open marriage) has consistently been that it's not consistent with my kink and has never been my request; and that if she really ends up in that place, I'd probably be willing to give it a try since she is trying hotwifing at my request, but really she should assume the marriage won't last because it's not my desire at all.

[slenderfish]

Do you expect to see a difference in SW's demeanor among her friends after becoming a HW?
Granted that last time she was a no-show to her own party, but I doubt she would publicly let on something so private.
If there is a close encounter to be had among that group, I imagine she would make it happen, but if she did, I am sure she would keep it private.

Are you seeing a marked difference in her behavior and dress, or in her demeanor day to day?

Good question, and I have already been thinking about it. It's a natural question from my posting.

She has been a bit more open and relaxed around the men in her/our lives, dressing just a slight bit more sexy when going to her workouts, etc. Not really had opportunities to get out and about under the COVID-19 situation.

The real difference in her behavior, to be honest, began this past summer beginning at our July 4 party (the one in the lap dancing videos) wherein Ms. M encouraged Pinky to do the lap dances, which then was the foundation for the subsequent acquisition and installation of the dancing pole. Once that was in place, and after Ms. M gave lessons, she quietly said to me that "this is going to change your life" and at the time I kind of rolled my eyes and figured she was overstating it.

Little did I know....

[slenderfish]

Any chance she's going to finally have Mr B on the up and up?

I would like that. But doubtful, to be honest.

In any case, I'll probably be getting a thrill watching them interact.

[Parsifal]

She has, in the heat of the conversation, said a couple of times that perhaps she might prefer a more typical "monogamish" relationship wherein we both have "don't ask-don't tell" attitudes.

My reply to her monogamish point (and open marriage) has consistently been that it's not consistent with my kink and has never been my request; and that if she really ends up in that place, I'd probably be willing to give it a try since she is trying hotwifing at my request, but really she should assume the marriage won't last because it's not my desire at all.

My wife pushed for that as well, but we agreed to a compromise. I allowed her to play what we referred to an an affair game, where she set up a profile on AM under an alias, and for a period of three months she was allowed to simulate having affairs with whomever she chose. Don't ask, don't tell, and she was permitted to tell "white lies" in furtherance of the faux "affairs" she was having. She kept a diary of all of it. At the end of the three month game, we traveled to a resort hotel where she read me the diary and there was a tell-all during a long weekend of intense reclamation sex. We then repeated the game for another four months with a new set of guys.

The benefit of this approach is it allowed her the autonomy she felt she needed to explore her sexuality without micromanagement by me, but her freedom in this regard was enjoyed within the bigger context of a marital game that required her to 1. end the affairs rather quickly, and 2. bring all of it back into our marriage for joint consumption. Right before covid struck, we had planned another of these affair games, but covid caused us to detour in a safer direction.

[superb101]

I believe you are going to learn a lot just by watching her and Mr. B interact.