Should I be worried?

[36DDwife]

Thanks for the concern guys. I originally came for advice and by my own admission I didn't heed all of the advice (I did heed some! I still get photos and videos and she communicates a lot more!) but my last post was a bit of a vent if I'm honest. I feel better today. Thanks for the couple of private messages also, didn't realise you could message other users! Appreciate the care.

I'm going to call her shortly to ask her to come back so we can talk. Actually listening to advice! She is away a week as he is not seeing him for a couple weeks after this week as he's away with work. But I'll still ask her to come back. They see each other usually a couple nights a week, but this one is longer because of the aforementioned work trip and wouldn't see him for a while. I agreed to the condoms as I could minimally see her point that I was (to him) potentially playing with others and he wasn't (and he is fully clean, I saw the proof). He only fucked my wife so I was the risk in the situation. But since I haven't yet, it does seem a bit silly as I can't catch anything from sleeping with no one and I'll say this when I speak to her. If I do, I would have told her and I would have wore condoms in any event with others. Not sure why I agreed as it seems clear now it's a bit daft, again too passive and wanted to make sure she was happy. I'm not bothered by her going bareback as I've seen his proof. I'm more bothered that anal is off limits to only him. Probably some powerplay between them over me?

I agree with you zorro, I don't think I'm quite at the stage where it's over as she has told the truth and had reasonable (ish) excuses why she didn't mention some things, but a major discussion does need to take place. Then if it goes south south, then I can try and get my ducks in a row like others have mentioned. I believe she loves me still and more than him, as she is great when she's around me, not distant, chats all day and besides the condoms our sex is still great. I can however feel that she thinks he's better at fucking her because when we do have sex as she asks me to do things that she likes - that I had no previous knowledge of - but ultimately she still gets off and so do I. I'm not sure she would be into polymory as she has conservative friends and family who wouldn't agree. I don't think it's the end.

I do need to start being less passive and stand up, that's something I can take away from all this in any eventuality.

You started this post over two months ago because you were concerned then. Nothing has changed in your favor that I can see. This post shows how far your head is still in the sand. She has lied to you multiple times. You are the one wearing rubbers. You are the one who is unhappy. You are the one sitting at home alone while she stays with him for a week. You are the one lying to yourself that her bullshit excuses are acceptable.

Wake up because the end is staring you in the face. You need to give her an ultimatum & take your marriage back.

[BallSpanking]

BTW, the condom requirement for you is BS.
If you sleep with someone, you are an adult, and will inform her.
Until then, no condoms.

Anal for him, not for you?
Sorry, that's also BS.
Either she shares these things with you, showing you how she likes it, or ...
Things can change.

Certainly I don't think coercion of any sort can work to restore sexual attraction,
but I think you should make it clear to her that the status quo is not workable as it stands.

[tojanman]

Trust and respect are the only way these relationships work out. You and your wife entered this lifestyle together but she’s been slowly excluding you at the boyfriends behest. It sounds like the boyfriend doesn’t appreciate what his position is in your relationship.

Asking permission for video and pictures. Telling you not to cum in his girlfriend. No no, it’s his privilege to fuck your wife and he needs to be informed that while he’s entitled to not want to do certain things like having you present or being on camera, if that’s the case then he’s not compatible with your needs and can fuck right off and stop having sex with your wife.

It feels like this is evolving more into a cuckold situation. If that’s your kink or preference then by all means, proceed. But looking at where you started I don’t think that’s what you want.

Don’t let the game fog your judgement and threaten your marriage. This guys toxic.

[Shaun89]

I called her and asked her to come home to talk. She was more confused than reluctant and agreed. She's promised to be back first thing tomorrow (they're out at a zoo today a bit away from his home, which I knew about, and don't get back until late). Some aspects of the cuckold kink I don't mind, but prefer the hotwife side.

Shaun

[Msn75]

I called her and asked her to come home to talk. She was more confused than reluctant and agreed. She's promised to be back first thing tomorrow (they're out at a zoo today a bit away from his home, which I knew about, and don't get back until late). Some aspects of the cuckold kink I don't mind, but prefer the hotwife side.

Shaun

It’s your marriage, but “first thing tomorrow” is ridiculous (to me)

“Come home to talk” means you get your ass in the car, as soon as the phone call is over, and start driving.

“First thing tomorrow “ means “I’m going to continue enjoying this date at the zoo, then fuck this guy 2-3 more times, and will see you in the morning.”

First thing tomorrow also means he has another 12-18 hours to get into her head, talk her through what to say to you etc

[Shaun89]

I'm at work until late and they're 100 miles out from his home and have just paid an entry fee so I agreed first thing tomorrow as in like 8am. I didn't want to start off this talk with conflict. Even if she rushes back to his, drives back, I won't be here until late anyway. But you're right. I have to stop being passive. I've just text her to say I want her back tonight when I'm back from work around 10pm. You guys are pushing me which is good, and I've got no one else to talk to about it (yet, not discounting future councillors...)

[BigHotMess]

100 miles is an hour and a half. That is literally nothing. It's not like she's out drinking. She's at the fucking zoo.

[36DDwife]

100 miles is an hour and a half. That is literally nothing. It's not like she's out drinking. She's at the fucking zoo.

LOL. That was my thought too.

[Msn75]

Tell him you’ll be happy to reimburse him for the cost of the zoo tickets, but she needs to have her ass sitting at home when you get back from work tonight.

[Suncoastcouple941]

Our guiding rule besides communication is either party has a veto option. We just got rid of a nice looking guy, well manner, made her feel good.....then got too clingy. I noticed it at the same time she did. We parted ways after we both discussed it. Just our input.

[Jaxunman]

Shaun89, I was one of the ones who have come down pretty bluntly about your situation earlier up in this thread. I do sympathize with you. That maybe did not come across in my earlier message. I think I read where you say your wife is 28, and I am assuming the 89 in your username indicates you to be around the same age. I have a son around your age. I know his maturity level and how he is still learning how and when to express himself at times. I do realize you most likely have nowhere else to vent or turn to for advice about your situation.

I fully believe that your wife's lover recognized you and your wife as a really inexperienced couple and has made moves to take full advantage of that situation. He knows your wife has been easy to manipulate to maximize his standing. He has convinced her to exclude you from day 1. I am not meaning what I am about to type as an insult by any means. From your wife's behavior, she appears to look at him with a type of awe and as someone she really wants to please and not disappoint him.. I don't know his age, but from your description of him, I am getting a picture that he is a bit older than you and your wife. He appears to have been successful in his career. He is a success in the corporate world, which means he is probably a type A person with charm, charisma, and is very good at winning people over to his way of thinking. He is a pro at looking at people and knowing exactly what it takes to gain an advantage over them. You and your wife were simply outgunned and unprepared for such a guy. The problem has only been magnified by you acting passive in an attempt to make everything more pleasurable for your wife. Your wife is caught in between being pulled in two directions, wife and responsibilities in your direction, living for the moment having all the fun and sex she wants while getting spoiled in his direction. I don't know too many 28 year olds who, when faced with this, would have the fortitude and will power on their own to resist what he is offering.

I think your wife's lover is playing a very different game than you two were originally interested in. You have to get her away from him for several days. No contact with him. Let the fog in her brain have a chance to clear so you two can have a clear conversation about things. You have to find a way to make her see the damage that is being caused by her continued relationship with him. You can be as blunt as is necessary. Insist on no contact with him for the two weeks he is away on his trip. Insist on her bringing her belongings that are at his place back to the house you two share. Insist on going with her when she gets them.

In my opinion, your road to recovery begins with breaking her contact with him so her head will clear.

[Msn75]

Jaxunman’s advice here is very solid.

We often talk about men thinking with their dick, not their brain. However, many women (not all) get “Orgasm Brain” when their brain is flooded with endorphins from a sexual high. It happens to many many women and makes it difficult to think clearly.

That is why it is important to trust the men she is banging. There are tons of women who after having 5-10 orgasms and getting their brains fucked out will, for instance, let a man fuck them without a condom that same night, despite what was agreed upon prior. This is just one example....

[XYAlpha]

Shaun - good on you mate!
Do not settle for something that does not work for you.

He is the fucktoy and should wear condoms if he is worried about you!

As others have noted, he is likely fucking others in addition to your wife (clean papers are only good the date printed btw). If he is not - then he has become solely focused on your wife which is a major problem.

If she protests too much, you have some idea of where she wants this to go. There is always your veto...
If she wants to continue seeing him it should be on your terms. If not, veto and make her choose (be prepared in all ways - personal property, finances, and more legal stuff in the event she chooses him).

Holidays with her conservative family would be ticket-worthy!


Edited to add:
Shaun, in some ways I was in your shoes. My HW found Mr. Perfect. Things got out of control. She started lying and betraying our agreements. I used my veto (first time I had) and though she said she would stop - she kept seeing him.
In the end, she chose him and I divorced her. I believe it is much like what others have written in your thread and elsewhere in the forums that the time with a BF is void of life's doldrums...

She moved in with him (she also had a lot of things at his place). They didn't last long and she moved into a small apartment and tried to get by without her stable husband and spendy BF. By her admission, she made a bad decision.

XY

[afagehi7]

Shaun,

I think first thing in the morning is fine. Be well rested and above ALL BE PREPARED! Make notes so you don't miss anything. Do your homework.

Also, I agree that he's a cocksmith and knows how to manipulate. That's how he got to where he is in his career and being a rich adonis he knows how to operate females.

If you end up divorced, what happened to XY will happen. Once he's taken her away and the new has worn off and life bullshit happens he'll toss her. The thrill of the chase is over and he's listening to her drone on about her work drama. He'll then be fucking someone else for the newness, fun, and thrill of the hunt. If this wasn't his style he'd me married because on the outside And superficially he's quite the catch. No offense but he can probably do better than your wife if he wants. She's convenient and taking control and dominating you and her is fun for guys like him. He did not get to be wealthy by being a nice guy. He's probably fucked people over and stepped on a lot of people's heads and toes. That's not always a requirement for success but it's certainly common among successful people.

[2inUPMichigan]

If you are indeed in your 20's as was pointed out and you are inexperienced and dealing with an experienced man as a third I can see how that would be a challenge and a lot of fun for him (getting to have things his way).

This absolutely can be turned around, but it will take the two of you sitting down together and talking. You need to understand and be prepared to discuss with your wife the fact that the "rules" are set by the couple and any man that wants in on the action gets to decide if he wants to follow along by their rules or say goodbye. It really is that simple!
After the two of you figure out the guidelines that will work for you she will have to communicate them to him and let him know that this is what the expectation is if he wishes to continue to play with her.

In my situation, any man that doesn't respect my marriage or doesn't follow the few rules/boundaries that we have in place will never see or hear from me again. I have no problem cutting ties!

If I were you I would tell her that things got off track and you would like to talk to her about getting things back on track and make your marriage a priority for both of you.

Good luck!!

[Stag78]

Yet again 2inUP has some pretty solid advice!

Hey Shaun, first off best wishes when you meet with your wife. There are obviously a lot of people here that may be total strangers online but definitely feel for your situation.

As a mere Stag wannabe I'm probably not in a position to give you any real advice, but your story certainly gives me pause regarding the potential pitfalls of making this fantasy a reality. Pretty scary stuff!

That said, one thing that occurred to me while reading through this thread that I don't think anyone else has mentioned is, do you think you might actually be a cuckold? I mean no insult whatsoever in saying that. It seems to me that you have fairly easily given in to several new and likely humiliating conditions (man, the condom thing is particularly rough), so maybe that aspect of the LS could suit you?

It is apparently quite common for a cuckold to play second fiddle to his wife's lovers, at least in the sexual realm. Some cucks never even have sex with their wives at all. I'm not sure how a marriage under that dynamic truly plays out, but given the activity on the Cuckold forum on this very site some couples are able to make it work.

Regardless, I agree with the panel that you should immediately improve your communication with your wife and work to establish boundaries that will work for both of you.

Good luck!

[tojanman]

Hopefully the she came home and the talk was productive.

[Xalar11]

I think we all hope here everything has gone well, if your wife really has returned home in the meantime.

A scenario I could imagine that maybe has played out or will play out is that your wife will return home, but also has her lover in tow. It's quite probable that he insisted to accompany your wife so that he has the opportunity to manipulate you and your wife further.
If that really should be the case, I can only hope that you make it unequivocally clear that this is just something between you and your wife and certainly not his business and you sent him back to his home immediately. I think this guy is cancer for your marriage.

[Jaxunman]

If you are indeed in your 20's as was pointed out and you are inexperienced and dealing with an experienced man as a third I can see how that would be a challenge and a lot of fun for him (getting to have things his way).

This absolutely can be turned around, but it will take the two of you sitting down together and talking. You need to understand and be prepared to discuss with your wife the fact that the "rules" are set by the couple and any man that wants in on the action gets to decide if he wants to follow along by their rules or say goodbye. It really is that simple!
After the two of you figure out the guidelines that will work for you she will have to communicate them to him and let him know that this is what the expectation is if he wishes to continue to play with her.

In my situation, any man that doesn't respect my marriage or doesn't follow the few rules/boundaries that we have in place will never see or hear from me again. I have no problem cutting ties!

If I were you I would tell her that things got off track and you would like to talk to her about getting things back on track and make your marriage a priority for both of you.

Good luck!!

2inUP is offering sound, reasonable advice. The only thing I would alter that she has said is on communicating to the lover your new rules. Don't leave it up to your wife to do that. With all that has been going on, I don't know that she is capable on her own. Make it a joint effort. Both of you need to explain the guidelines to him and present a united front.

I would also advise that should you two decide together to continue forward with him as a sex partner for your wife, any alone time with him needs to be severely limited (no week long adventures, 3 days, or overnights). I would communicate to your wife that due to his actions and his affects on her judgement that this lover is on a kind of probation. As long as he agrees and stays inside the rules, okay. But you can and will invoke veto power over their play at the first sign of trouble and he is gone. Period.

[slenderfish]

Hi Shaun89 -

Thank you for posting your story. I am particularly interested because a lot of what you presented about your wife is similar with my wife. We are on the precipice of her moving into hotwifehood and her first effort was one where she insisted on being able to call all the shots as follows:

- She chose the guy (reasonable)
- She wanted to do this in her home state, two time zones away, so as to feel safer about being "outed" (understandable)
- She wanted basically radio silence, so as to avoid feeling conflicted, and so she can clear her head to orient to her chosen guy (understandable but puts me more fully out of the picture)

I agreed but remained wary of this setting the precedent where my influence and participation is secondary in our adventure. She had plans to go out with him a couple times during her trip but cancelled the second, bigger night after the first night where they got (re)acquainted, had some kissing and above-clothes touching, etc. but it proved to be too much for her all at once.

She is back home and we are in the place to have the bigger conversation and I need to assert myself more actively into the concept, that this is for "us" but initially she has the lead.

Your story reminds me of the paramount importance of having this agreed platform and foundation where her dalliance is secondary to the marriage and also that she must not hide things from me, even at the risk of hurting feelings. She has a bit of history of hiding things from me with that very rationale. She has agreed and committed to be open, but it will be a departure from what appears to be her default approach.

I hope you are able to rein this all back to where your marriage is paramount.

Your story is scorching hot and hits all my buttons. Just not this downturn and development.

If you two were further along in hotwifing and had proven experience that this NRE is not going to swamp the marriage, etc. then I would not be as worried for you (or, by extension, me).

[veub]

One thing I have learned on here is that once you open your marriage like this what happens next is totally out of your control. By removing the expectation of fidelity, you have removed the only real limits on your wife's relationships with other men: the implied promise of mutual fidelity. Your wife has complete control over the future progress of her relationships with other men. She may consider your opinion but if she chooses to disregard that opinion the only veto you have is your ability to remove yourself from the marriage.

[TomG]

Shaun, I wish you two all the best when you talk (presumably this evening), but I honestly think most of the other replies above this one have given you some good, solid advice, because it's really time to stop negotiating with your wife and this guy. Lay out your demands and insist on them being met. And above all, just to drive home what others have mentioned - have a consultation with an attorney and cancel all joint bank and credit card accounts; you don't want to leave yourself open to being financially fucked if things don't go as you wish. Trust this from one who knows - it can happen.

Good luck, and I'll keep checking in for more updates from you.

[FNQLivin]

Can we stop with all the legal advice? Telling someone to stop/cancel cards makes an assumption that all assets are his. Even in a divorce, settlement has to be agreed. Canceling access to funds where the other person may have made contribution (or not) will go down extremely badly.

Same with her wanting him to wear condoms. No man has any rights over a woman’s body. She can sleep with and do whatever she wants. He has no rights to ‘demand’ anything. What he does have is agency over his own decisions. He can make requests. They can discuss issues. He can make choices based on her answers. He is not forced to do anything he doesn’t want and she has the same choices.

If they can’t find common ground and agreement, he has decisions to make. You can’t even assume he can ‘kick her out’. He can leave. He can request she leaves. Any ‘kicking’ out would have to take note of their living situation.

Finally, he has to decide what he can live with and accept. The only person you have control of is yourself.

[XYAlpha]

Hi Shaun89 -

Thank you for posting your story. I am particularly interested because a lot of what you presented about your wife is similar with my wife. We are on the precipice of her moving into hotwifehood and her first effort was one where she insisted on being able to call all the shots as follows:

- She chose the guy (reasonable)
- She wanted to do this in her home state, two time zones away, so as to feel safer about being "outed" (understandable)
- She wanted basically radio silence, so as to avoid feeling conflicted, and so she can clear her head to orient to her chosen guy (understandable but puts me more fully out of the picture)

I agreed but remained wary of this setting the precedent where my influence and participation is secondary in our adventure. She had plans to go out with him a couple times during her trip but cancelled the second, bigger night after the first night where they got (re)acquainted, had some kissing and above-clothes touching, etc. but it proved to be too much for her all at once.

She is back home and we are in the place to have the bigger conversation and I need to assert myself more actively into the concept, that this is for "us" but initially she has the lead.

Your story reminds me of the paramount importance of having this agreed platform and foundation where her dalliance is secondary to the marriage and also that she must not hide things from me, even at the risk of hurting feelings. She has a bit of history of hiding things from me with that very rationale. She has agreed and committed to be open, but it will be a departure from what appears to be her default approach.

I hope you are able to rein this all back to where your marriage is paramount.

Your story is scorching hot and hits all my buttons. Just not this downturn and development.

If you two were further along in hotwifing and had proven experience that this NRE is not going to swamp the marriage, etc. then I would not be as worried for you (or, by extension, me).

Slenderfish,

You have posted the exact message I have been mulling about posting in your thread...

XY

[anonymister1948]

Telling someone to stop/cancel cards makes an assumption that all assets are his.

I respectfully disagree. It does not assume all assets are his. The reason for canceling all joint credit cards is so the person (and that means either the husband OR the wife) making new charges is responsible to pay them off. Being protected in a worst-case scenario is important and often overlooked when people are in the emotional fog of divorce.