Likes & Dislikes

[Greg_N_Shelley]

…I'm deeply disturbed by some of the commentators on this site ghosting us due to what I suspect is a crash and burn finale to their stories that never gets told, which then prompts me to write their final chapter so that I can bring closure to it in my own way of integrating how their situation brings meaning to mine.

I don’t find myself “writing their final chapter” per se, but I do share your concern for their welfare when it happens. There’s one recent member I was following with interest (story and picture threads) who apparently asked the mods to remove everything they previously posted. When that type of thing happens quietly without explanation, its usually a sign that something turned for the worse.

… And I too am deeply appreciative of the kindred spirits I find lurking here, you included.

Likewise, my friend!

[Greg_N_Shelley]

Not HWC but I really connected with his take. The tragic ends... I mean, the process turns me on. Not in a sadistic way, but more in a vicarious masochistic way, and yes, empathy is part of it because I can relate.

I went through the whole "Best friend stole my girlfriend" brutal cuck in the next room experience before I was married. It's part of my kink, I'm 99% sure.

I find the "happily ever after" variants of the kink to be not nearly as exciting, I hate to say it. Ethical shmethical, it's just not as much of a turn on.

I wouldn't wish it on anybody. Wouldn't steer them to it. But when it happens? It's a sexual turn on.

Thank you for explaining that. I imagine that type of fetish can cause a lot of turmoil.

Has that "impulse/desire" expressed itself in your relationship with your current wife?

[Dream Weaver]

Not HWC but I really connected with his take. The tragic ends... I mean, the process turns me on. Not in a sadistic way, but more in a vicarious masochistic way, and yes, empathy is part of it because I can relate.

I went through the whole "Best friend stole my girlfriend" brutal cuck in the next room experience before I was married. It's part of my kink, I'm 99% sure.

I find the "happily ever after" variants of the kink to be not nearly as exciting, I hate to say it. Ethical shmethical, it's just not as much of a turn on.

I wouldn't wish it on anybody. Wouldn't steer them to it. But when it happens? It's a sexual turn on.

Thank you for explaining that. I imagine that type of fetish can cause a lot of turmoil.

Has that "impulse/desire" expressed itself in your relationship with your current wife?

Absolutely in that I played with fire BIG TIME. I'm married 30 years, we married in our very early 20's. She absolutely "took her shot" with one guy (a co-worker) in particular who would have outclassed me in every way, and was single. She'd come home from work hot and bothered and wet and dragging me into the bedroom and calling me his name. He explicitly turned her down when she invited him to her room on a work trip.

The one guy who did eventually seduce her also could have had her if not for his own commitments. He was married and had already stolen his wife away from a boyfriend and they are still happily married. (there's more to it, it was unethicalish for sure, but she knows she married a guy who basically fucked every girl in their friend group) I even told him this year I was so fucking lucky he was already married or I might have ended up like his wife's ex boyfriend. He was flattered. LOL.

The truth is our marriage is healthy in almost every respect and my wife prefers me over drama and for morality reason.

So there has been absolutely nothing untoward since that happened way back in 2008. I hate it!

But to the point, the stories I read here with anguish mirrors my own. I couldn't eat, I was so stressed when these "journeys" were going down, and I was masturbating overtime. So stories I read where the guy has doubts and paranoia yet can't stop himself.... *chefs kiss*... and the disastrous ending... cherry on top.

[Greg_N_Shelley]

Absolutely in that I played with fire BIG TIME. I'm married 30 years, we married in our very early 20's. She absolutely "took her shot" with one guy (a co-worker) in particular who would have outclassed me in every way, and was single. She'd come home from work hot and bothered and wet and dragging me into the bedroom and calling me his name. He explicitly turned her down when she invited him to her room on a work trip.

The one guy who did eventually seduce her also could have had her if not for his own commitments. He was married and had already stolen his wife away from a boyfriend and they are still happily married. (there's more to it, it was unethicalish for sure, but she knows she married a guy who basically fucked every girl in their friend group) I even told him this year I was so fucking lucky he was already married or I might have ended up like his wife's ex boyfriend. He was flattered. LOL.

The truth is our marriage is healthy in almost every respect and my wife prefers me over drama and for morality reason.

So there has been absolutely nothing untoward since that happened way back in 2008. I hate it!

But to the point, the stories I read here with anguish mirrors my own. I couldn't eat, I was so stressed when these "journeys" were going down, and I was masturbating overtime. So stories I read where the guy has doubts and paranoia yet can't stop himself.... *chefs kiss*... and the disastrous ending... cherry on top.

This is interesting and intersects with something that’s been on my mind for some time about “Sensation Seeking” behavior (psychology term).

I read an article about hotwifing written by a psychologist a few years ago who proposed that husbands who pursue hotwifing often have strong sexual sensation seeking traits. He didn’t cite any research to back that up, so I think it was just an anecdotal opinion. But apparently, sexual risk-taking is a common trait of people prone to sensation seeking.

I never heard of Sensation Seeking behavior and when I investigated it a bit, seemed very plausible. Based on simple descriptions, I could see elements of sensation-seeking behavior in myself. But pursuing that curiosity a step further, I couldn’t find any online test instruments specifically for ‘sexual sensation seeking’ behavior. I did, however, find several online tests focusing on Sensation Seeking behavior in general, and sure enough I ranked high in many domains and above baseline in all.

My hypothesis is that high SS traits don’t necessarily make one prone to being turned on by hotwifing or cuckoldry, but they may be a distinguishing characteristic between those of us who only fantasize about it and those of us who actively pursue it, perhaps also why it is so euphoric and addictive for many once they’ve experienced it for real. In light of this discussion, I can also see the possibility of SS traits as an accelerating factor for those who pursue even more martially-dangerous paths, like you an hwc describe.

Perhaps I should open a new post discussion about this subject with links to the online tests. I’m very curious if test results from other OHW husbands confirms or deconfirms this hypothesis.

[Parsifal]

Absolutely in that I played with fire BIG TIME. I'm married 30 years, we married in our very early 20's. She absolutely "took her shot" with one guy (a co-worker) in particular who would have outclassed me in every way, and was single. She'd come home from work hot and bothered and wet and dragging me into the bedroom and calling me his name. He explicitly turned her down when she invited him to her room on a work trip.

The one guy who did eventually seduce her also could have had her if not for his own commitments. He was married and had already stolen his wife away from a boyfriend and they are still happily married. (there's more to it, it was unethicalish for sure, but she knows she married a guy who basically fucked every girl in their friend group) I even told him this year I was so fucking lucky he was already married or I might have ended up like his wife's ex boyfriend. He was flattered. LOL.

The truth is our marriage is healthy in almost every respect and my wife prefers me over drama and for morality reason.

So there has been absolutely nothing untoward since that happened way back in 2008. I hate it!

But to the point, the stories I read here with anguish mirrors my own. I couldn't eat, I was so stressed when these "journeys" were going down, and I was masturbating overtime. So stories I read where the guy has doubts and paranoia yet can't stop himself.... *chefs kiss*... and the disastrous ending... cherry on top.

This is interesting and intersects with something that’s been on my mind for some time about “Sensation Seeking” behavior (psychology term).

I read an article about hotwifing written by a psychologist a few years ago who proposed that husbands who pursue hotwifing often have strong sexual sensation seeking traits. He didn’t cite any research to back that up, so I think it was just an anecdotal opinion. But apparently, sexual risk-taking is a common trait of people prone to sensation seeking.

I never heard of Sensation Seeking behavior and when I investigated it a bit, seemed very plausible. Based on simple descriptions, I could see elements of sensation-seeking behavior in myself. But pursuing that curiosity a step further, I couldn’t find any online test instruments specifically for ‘sexual sensation seeking’ behavior. I did, however, find several online tests focusing on Sensation Seeking behavior in general, and sure enough I ranked high in many domains and above baseline in all.

My hypothesis is that high SS traits don’t necessarily make one prone to being turned on by hotwifing or cuckoldry, but they may be a distinguishing characteristic between those of us who only fantasize about it and those of us who actively pursue it, perhaps also why it is so euphoric and addictive for many once they’ve experienced it for real. In light of this discussion, I can also see the possibility of SS traits as an accelerating factor for those who pursue even more martially-dangerous paths, like you an hwc describe.

Perhaps I should open a new post discussion about this subject with links to the online tests. I’m very curious if test results from other OHW husbands confirms or deconfirms this hypothesis.

There's a constellation of risk-taking behaviors that grow into self-destructive additions, from gambling to rock climbing to fast driving, and so on. This tendency, in turn, can overlap with behaviors that libidinize or eroticize fear or other base sensations such as physical pain, as we see in BDSM practices that grow in intensity as the thrill for ever higher sensation increases. I've hypothesized the idea of compersion, in some cases, being an eroticized feeling of abandonment anxiety - fear of abandonment made tolerable, even enjoyable, through orgasmic admixture. It follows that the sexually sublimated fear is no longer sufficient to produce the base emotion and the practitioner advances to desire actual abandonment as the underlying cathexis. Sex-related assault is vastly different - it implicates not self-destruction but pathological desires to control and consume others - but can operate similarly in the sense that the extreme sensation of exerting that control becomes eroticized. Sadists and masochists are at apparently opposite poles but the linkage between sadism and masochism yields insights into the psychological mechanisms involved with both.

[leggysman]

In general I'm not what you'd call a sensation seeker. I like to try new things, but only after rationalizing the risks.

In theory I'd love to try skydiving. But the risks are statistically undeniable. I love to fly planes, but the safety risks are quantifiable (very safe!) and manageable given correct training. Engine failed? Now I'm flying a glider. I'm trained for that - we practice it all the time.

Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane? Parachute failed to deploy? Fucking hell. That seems like a significant and somewhat reckless risk, so I won't do it.

Knowingly risk my marriage in a predictable way? For a sexual thrill? Never. Risk is an unavoidable part of living, but for me, the calculation has to fall on the safe side of a balance of probabilities.

[Greg_N_Shelley]

In general I'm not what you'd call a sensation seeker. I like to try new things, but only after rationalizing the risks.

In theory I'd love to try skydiving. But the risks are statistically undeniable. I love to fly planes, but the safety risks are quantifiable (very safe!) and manageable given correct training. Engine failed? Now I'm flying a glider. I'm trained for that - we practice it all the time.

Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane? Parachute failed to deploy? Fucking hell. That seems like a significant and somewhat reckless risk, so I won't do it.

Knowingly risk my marriage in a predictable way? For a sexual thrill? Never. Risk is an unavoidable part of living, but for me, the calculation has to fall on the safe side of a balance of probabilities.

I get it. Your willingness to pursue thrill is throttled by risk perception. And that seems to be true for all of us, granted our varying differences in risk perception and risk tolerance.

I don't know leggysman beyond his OHW posts. But if I had to bet, my money says you probably score higher on the sensation seeking scale than the average Joe. Yet I may well be wrong.

[hwc]

For me personally, I think I like the heightened senses and emotions caused from encouraging a wife to have a real, loving relationship. Sure, the thrill of risk taking is an element but for me not the primary one and more specifically, not the driving motivation. That would be the fear, angst and jealousy caused directly by putting a marriage in possible jeopardy.

That others cannot identify with this is perfectly understandable, of course and it is obviously a fringe interest - even to a liberally and open-minded community like this one, again for understandable reasons. Afterall, we are talking about someone inflicting (emotional) pain and anguish on themselves, which on the face of it, doesn't sound like a healthy pursuit!

Something that I wanted to add though, is that even in the most vanilla of 'normal' relationships - even within deeply religious and ethical communities - cheating, relationship break-up and divorce are very frequent and entirely commonplace, so
hotwife or cuckold reationships that dabble in this are not exactly akin to 'high-risk' activities such as MMA, cage fighting, Mountineering, extreme sports or other very dangerous activities! And anyway, cheating, which is very common, is more abusive as this is non-consensual and involves deception and betrayal,
(not judging, just stating the facts), which must surely be considered worse than consensual risk-taking with relationships?

Very curious to hear what others think....

[Long Lurker 34]

For me personally, I think I like the heightened senses and emotions caused from encouraging a wife to have a real, loving relationship. Sure, the thrill of risk taking is an element but for me not the primary one and more specifically, not the driving motivation. That would be the fear, angst and jealousy caused directly by putting a marriage in possible jeopardy.

That others cannot identify with this is perfectly understandable, of course and it is obviously a fringe interest - even to a liberally and open-minded community like this one, again for understandable reasons. Afterall, we are talking about someone inflicting (emotional) pain and anguish on themselves, which on the face of it, doesn't sound like a healthy pursuit!

Something that I wanted to add though, is that even in the most vanilla of 'normal' relationships - even within deeply religious and ethical communities - cheating, relationship break-up and divorce are very frequent and entirely commonplace, so
hotwife or cuckold reationships that dabble in this are not exactly akin to 'high-risk' activities such as MMA, cage fighting, Mountineering, extreme sports or other very dangerous activities! And anyway, cheating, which is very common, is more abusive as this is non-consensual and involves deception and betrayal,
(not judging, just stating the facts), which must surely be considered worse than consensual risk-taking with relationships?

Very curious to hear what others think....

HWC
- Yup always makes my teeth grind when the 'on high' self-righteous sanctimonious types are the ones caught with their pants down and then have the nerve to try and spin it.

[coastalkid]

I like this thread. There's a lot of interesting takes on things, and while I don't necessarily agree with all of them, there are some well stated, easily understood opinions. I have a lot of respect for several posters on this thread! Thanks HWC!

[Greg_N_Shelley]

For me personally, I think I like the heightened senses and emotions caused from encouraging a wife to have a real, loving relationship. Sure, the thrill of risk taking is an element but for me not the primary one and more specifically, not the driving motivation. That would be the fear, angst and jealousy caused directly by putting a marriage in possible jeopardy.

I spent some time the past few days reflecting on this topic, initiated by your original post and an offline dialogue I had with another OHW member. Please bear with me as I walk my thoughts through on this matter...

I’ve never been a jealous person. When we (Shelley and I) started playing, I never once felt jealousy or insecurity despite what some sexual superstars could do for her. I felt humbled, but not humiliated or jealous.

That said, she never showed interest during our CNM days in relationships with other guys beyond casual friendship and sex. And obviously as a husband, there’s a sense of emotional security in that type of situation. She can fuck her superstar to both of our heart’s delight, but at the end of the night, it’s always the two of us together.

Now if things were different - and maybe she decided she wanted an emotional relationship with her regular FWB – I probably would have been okay with it. Again, I’m not a jealous guy, I love seeing her happy, and he was pretty cool about respecting both of us. It’s quite possible we could have been a successful poly trouple. From a practical perspective, that probably would have been a bit awkward given our kids, family, and my business relationships, but in theory I would have been okay with that. I don’t feel possession of Shelley. I like to think of us as ‘hand-in-hand’, and not ‘handcuffed’ to each other.

But if in such a scenario, she decided she wanted to leave me for him, I probably would have felt devastated. Not because of any sense of ‘lost ownership’, but because I treasure living with her and sharing everything in my life with her. She’s my North Star, after all.

And I’m 99.99% confident my dick wouldn’t be very hard.

I think Parsifal wrote something very insightful in this conversation.

.. I've hypothesized the idea of compersion, in some cases, being an eroticized feeling of abandonment anxiety - fear of abandonment made tolerable, even enjoyable, through orgasmic admixture. It follows that the sexually sublimated fear is no longer sufficient to produce the base emotion and the practitioner advances to desire actual abandonment as the underlying cathexis...

I think there’s some merit to Parsifal’s idea. In most situations that I’ve seen where men eroticize abandonment, there’s a preceding event in life that probably laid the seed for this fetish. Similar to a girlfriend I had many years ago who was abused in childhood (a stripper who traveled to gigs nationwide by bus), who would pretend to sleep on the bus and allow strangers to grope her. She found the men repulsive, but confided she was oddly turned on and peaceful with their unwelcomed actions. She didn’t help them, but she never stopped them either.

It seems there's a body of work that supports theory that eroticism is often a way of processing trauma and fear. Freudian terrain. Maybe Parsifal has a thought on this subject. He's quite insightful on Freud's ideas.

Something that I wanted to add though, is that even in the most vanilla of 'normal' relationships - even within deeply religious and ethical communities - cheating, relationship break-up and divorce are very frequent and entirely commonplace, so hotwife or cuckold reationships that dabble in this are not exactly akin to 'high-risk' activities such as MMA, cage fighting, Mountineering, extreme sports or other very dangerous activities!..

You may be right. But I also propose holding space on this subject...

I posted about the sensation seeking trait and my personal investigation into the matter. I ranked very high, and I'm very sure that was a factor in my enthusiasm for hotwifing. I’ve written many times about how my main attraction is the beauty of Shelley's erotic pleasure with gifted guys (and that’s true!), but I also know “Greg the Adventure Junkie, Novelty-Seeking, Thrill Addict” was a major accelerant too. Hotwifing stuff aside, I’ve done some pretty dangerous stuff over the years and if I’m truthful with myself, a lot of it was probably propelled by that sensation seeking trait.

Maybe that’s not the same for all of us, but I do retain the hypothesis that we, as a community, probably rank higher on the SS scale than most vanilla folks.

.. And anyway, cheating, which is very common, is more abusive as this is non-consensual and involves deception and betrayal, (not judging, just stating the facts), which must surely be considered worse than consensual risk-taking with relationships?

I agree with you 100% here.

I played that terrible game a lot in youth before I met Shelley. I was the 'other guy' in more than a few relationships with married and engaged women. I don’t waste a lot of energy on regret today, but it’s not something I’m proud of. And I also suspect it was accelerated by that risk-tolerant, sensation-seeking trait.

I feel deep sadness today for the destruction that happened in some of those relationships. And maybe that’s also why I feel a little extra concerned today when I see OHW members predictably marching toward marital ruin.

As you implied, we all have our kinks and 'All is Good'. My cup of tea (and risk tolerance) may be different than yours, or Leggyman’s, or Parsifal’s, or anyone else’s.

My only wish is that guys who feel erotically-charged by stories of other OHW members (real people) on a trajectory to marital destruction, set their erotic excitement aside in favor of warning our brethren and not encouraging them to peril.