Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

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SSQ
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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by SSQ » Thu May 23, 2019 9:13 am

Myhotwife76 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 4:29 pm
I'm new to the site. Hey hotwifes. We been in lifestyle for about ten years. My hotwife over the years, it seems to empower her with confidence an make her feel sexy. She has had same lover the whole time. I know what I get from it but I always wonder what it's like for hotwife on the other side. Maybe you wifes have some insight.
Have you asked her? Because I bet we all get different things out of this.
It's all fun until someone gets hurt... and then it's more fun! :whip:

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Myhotwife76 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:43 am

Yeah I have asked her. We are really open. But I believe she holds some thoughts back from telling me. Maybe afraid of hurting me. But she says she feels empowered an confidence an loves this lifestyle. An never wants to stop. But yeah hasn't gone in great detail. For me it's the jealousy. She a master at making me jealous. Makes me want her so bad!! But yeah probably need to talk to her more.

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by sirmatic » Thu May 23, 2019 5:15 pm

My hotwife developed a few steady FBs in the past and we both really enjoyed it. But we moved to a new state in 2018 and she hasn’t had a FB since. For her next FB she’d like to find somebody who’s comfortable with bareback and my involvement on certain occasions. I’m straight and would want all attention to be focused on my wife. My wife has no interest in searching for someone on-line, but I’d be willing to do so on her behalf. But I have no idea if such an approach is likely to succeed or whether visiting certain clubs or bars would be a better angle. So my question is what’s the best way to help my wife find her next FB given what I’ve described above? Thanks in advance for your help!

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Hungry4IT » Thu May 23, 2019 7:10 pm

My wife and I are looking for our first bull and we've met someone she vibes with very well. Thing is he's married and the wife is unaware.

I'm curious what experiences and advise you VHW have for us? The ups and downs and ins and outs.lol of dealing with married bulls.

Neither my wife or I have moral concerns. That's his business in our opinion. More safety concerns in dealing with jaded wife if the glass house shatters.

Thanks
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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by SSQ » Fri May 24, 2019 4:58 am

Hungry4IT wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:10 pm
My wife and I are looking for our first bull and we've met someone she vibes with very well. Thing is he's married and the wife is unaware.

I'm curious what experiences and advise you VHW have for us? The ups and downs and ins and outs.lol of dealing with married bulls.

Neither my wife or I have moral concerns. That's his business in our opinion. More safety concerns in dealing with jaded wife if the glass house shatters.

Thanks
You play with fire, sometimes you get burned. There are a lot of reasons why I won't have sex with cheaters anymore. Open/poly is fine.
It's all fun until someone gets hurt... and then it's more fun! :whip:

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Hungry4IT » Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 am

SSQ wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:58 am
Hungry4IT wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:10 pm
My wife and I are looking for our first bull and we've met someone she vibes with very well. Thing is he's married and the wife is unaware.

I'm curious what experiences and advise you VHW have for us? The ups and downs and ins and outs.lol of dealing with married bulls.

Neither my wife or I have moral concerns. That's his business in our opinion. More safety concerns in dealing with jaded wife if the glass house shatters.

Thanks
You play with fire, sometimes you get burned. There are a lot of reasons why I won't have sex with cheaters anymore. Open/poly is fine.
Thank you for the advise.

My wife and I have discussed the marital status of a bull many times as we've started this adventure. We would both preffer a bull that would be single or in a open/poly relationship. That said we also feel open to the possibility of a married bull if done in a certain way.

My wife would preffer a longtime FB that were able to become close with and eventually have visit our home and become a friend. With a married bull our theory is it would work for one or two times and not personable and long-term. Use it for what it is. A no strings Fuckn.

We are procceeding with caution.

Thank you again we appreciate it
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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by feetuji » Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 am

QUESTION for hotwives:
What feelings do you have regarding a cuckold* relationship? Do you feel great because you can have sex with other guys or do you really enjoy cuckoldry because you know you are "cheating" your husband and he knows? I mean, is it just for the sex or for knowledge that you are dominanting your husband? I would love to know what drives mostly a wife in a cuckold/hotwife relationship.

Thanks for answering (and you girls can answer my last question too, with just one answer: what kind of porn do you like the most)? :)



*I am using the word "cuckold" here as the same thing as hotwife, swinger wife, etc

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by SSQ » Sun May 26, 2019 12:12 pm

feetuji wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 am
QUESTION for hotwives:
What feelings do you have regarding a cuckold* relationship? Do you feel great because you can have sex with other guys or do you really enjoy cuckoldry because you know you are "cheating" your husband and he knows? I mean, is it just for the sex or for knowledge that you are dominanting your husband? I would love to know what drives mostly a wife in a cuckold/hotwife relationship.

Thanks for answering (and you girls can answer my last question too, with just one answer: what kind of porn do you like the most)? :)



*I am using the word "cuckold" here as the same thing as hotwife, swinger wife, etc
I'm not cheating my husband out of anything. He gets a happier wife. I do Dominate my husband; we are in a 24/7 FLR. But the decision to have an open relationship predated the FLR. It's not about taking anything away from my husband- he gets his needs satisfied just fine. I like the freedom to connect with people any way I choose to do so, whether that's friendship, sex, BDSM play, or love.

But we're all different- there's no hive mind here. Ask 100 women in some form of open relationships and get 101 different answers. You'd have to ask a specific woman what her motivations are.

Oh, and the type of porn I like the most varies depending on where I am in my cycle :P
It's all fun until someone gets hurt... and then it's more fun! :whip:

https://thehappyhotwife.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by feetuji » Sun May 26, 2019 12:53 pm

Ssq, thanks for answering. I know that each woman Will give a different answer, but I would love to read each of your answers!

:-)

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by 2inUPMichigan » Sun May 26, 2019 5:49 pm

sirmatic wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:15 pm
My hotwife developed a few steady FBs in the past and we both really enjoyed it. But we moved to a new state in 2018 and she hasn’t had a FB since. For her next FB she’d like to find somebody who’s comfortable with bareback and my involvement on certain occasions. I’m straight and would want all attention to be focused on my wife. My wife has no interest in searching for someone on-line, but I’d be willing to do so on her behalf. But I have no idea if such an approach is likely to succeed or whether visiting certain clubs or bars would be a better angle. So my question is what’s the best way to help my wife find her next FB given what I’ve described above? Thanks in advance for your help!
I was hoping that one of the other VHW's would pop in and answer because I pick my own men, use condoms and only look for men online. :mrgreen: I'm not sure how much help I will be. :???:

I think your success and your approach really depend on your location in some cases. Are you in a rural location (like I am) or in an urban area?
What are her concerns with searching online? Has she had bad luck before? Is it overwhelming or confusing?
Not all parties and events allow single men and many times they can only attend when they accompany a couple - then they have to stay with that couple.
I only use SLS for finding play partners and you could set up a couple profile but you will need to be honest that you are screening the candidates. Some of the men may want to have separate contact with your wife prior to meeting to make sure that she is not being set up. (it happens)

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by 2inUPMichigan » Sun May 26, 2019 6:20 pm

feetuji wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 am
QUESTION for hotwives:
What feelings do you have regarding a cuckold* relationship? Do you feel great because you can have sex with other guys or do you really enjoy cuckoldry because you know you are "cheating" your husband and he knows? I mean, is it just for the sex or for knowledge that you are dominanting your husband? I would love to know what drives mostly a wife in a cuckold/hotwife relationship.

Thanks for answering (and you girls can answer my last question too, with just one answer: what kind of porn do you like the most)? :)



*I am using the word "cuckold" here as the same thing as hotwife, swinger wife, etc
I am not cheating on my husband. I could have chosen to do so, but I did not and I also will not play with anyone that is cheating. My husband always knows who I am with and where I am at. The men I play with are aware that my husband knows what is going on. I have no need to hide anything from either my husband or the men I play with.
I also do not dominate my husband, we don't have that kind of relationship.

There are lot of different reasons that this path might be attractive to women but not all of those reasons are simply sex and power exchange. Those might be the things that turn the men on the most but that isn't the only reasons that women find this beneficial. There are other benefits.
Sure there is the sex but it is more than that. It is also about having a time and place where you are treated like a woman - no I'm not talking about being treated like a sex object! I'm talking about the fact that these men that we meet see us as women and treat us as women and don't remind us of all the other responsibilities that we have in the world. It is an escape and "vacation" from our lives. (read my post above about this)

Well I'm not a girl ;) I'm all woman :mrgreen: but to answer your porn question.....it just really has to have a plot. I can't stand the ones that are just one scene after another and right into the action. Even porn needs a little foreplay!

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Martamlg » Mon May 27, 2019 3:13 am

feetuji wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 am
QUESTION for hotwives:
What feelings do you have regarding a cuckold* relationship? Do you feel great because you can have sex with other guys or do you really enjoy cuckoldry because you know you are "cheating" your husband and he knows? I mean, is it just for the sex or for knowledge that you are dominanting your husband? I would love to know what drives mostly a wife in a cuckold/hotwife relationship.

Thanks for answering (and you girls can answer my last question too, with just one answer: what kind of porn do you like the most)? :)



*I am using the word "cuckold" here as the same thing as hotwife, swinger wife, etc
For me the sex with other guys is something that I enjoy a lot, but is not mi goal with this way of living. What I enjoy is a bit sadistic but is about the suffering of my husband. He accept it because he doesn't like it but he can't avoid to be excited by that. It is a mixture of suffering and excitation that he suffers but I enjoy this exciting "excited suffering".

As allways, sorry for my english.

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by feetuji » Mon May 27, 2019 11:45 am

Interesting answers, thanks :)

Martamlg [btw, curious name...where are you from?], I think that women in general like to be a little sadistic (in a playful healthy way). Maybe not sadistic in a cuckold manner (well, not every women enjoy hotwife lifestyle).

2inupMichigan, I think I understand what you mean about being treated like a woman and forget about the boring daily life.

Thanks, all of you so far, for sharing your toughts

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by DawnQueen » Tue May 28, 2019 11:32 am

Very new to the site and new to this community as a whole. I am out of town and my partner wants me to have fun while I am away. Help. I have an option but just feeling strange as partner is not here

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by 2inUPMichigan » Tue May 28, 2019 12:47 pm

DawnQueen wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:32 am
Very new to the site and new to this community as a whole. I am out of town and my partner wants me to have fun while I am away. Help. I have an option but just feeling strange as partner is not here
Everyone is different. I personally always play alone but there are plenty of hotwives here that only play when their husband is present. It's about what works for you, what you are comfortable with and frankly what turns you on too. ;)
So you start there and honestly ask yourself is it just that you are nervous? (I still get nervous every time I meet someone new). Or is it about your comfort level.
Now is this option a one time thing? It is someone you know? And what is your gut telling you about that? Good or bad reactions?
If it doesn't feel right there will always be another time. Don't pressure yourself to go through with it if you will regret it.

However.....if it is just a case of the jitters? Well that is so very common!
All I can say is in that case.....own it! You are a hotwife and he is lucky to get a chance with you! :mrgreen: :whip:

Welcome to OHW!! Hope you think about becoming a verified hot wife so you can join us in the hidden lounge area!

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by DawnQueen » Tue May 28, 2019 7:10 pm

Thank you so much for the reply. I think it was just nerves. I appreciate the support. And your right his is oh so very lucky. And so is my partner.

afagehi7

Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by afagehi7 » Thu May 30, 2019 3:41 am

Can any VHWs comment on post menopausal libido? My wife started menopause a few years back. I'm not sure where that puts her in this process. She still gets the occasional hot flashes but a couple years ago they were much more frequent. She claims she has no interest in sex due to a low libido. I don't feel I can ask her to go to the doctor and get on pills because it's her body. Is this low libido normal and does it go away? She had a reasonably high libido before this. Higher than average I would say. I see VHWs in their 60s having fun. She's only 48. I've tried just about everything. Last I asked her to masturbate sometime when I am not around and think about other men as an experiment...but 3 weeks have passed and nada. I am about to toss in the towel but I really don't want to give up on her and our sex life.

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Martamlg » Thu May 30, 2019 9:12 am

feetuji wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:45 am
Interesting answers, thanks :)

Martamlg [btw, curious name...where are you from?], I think that women in general like to be a little sadistic (in a playful healthy way). Maybe not sadistic in a cuckold manner (well, not every women enjoy hotwife lifestyle).

I live in the South of Spain. In andalucía, in a coastal city.
Regards,
Marta.

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by SSQ » Thu May 30, 2019 10:36 am

afagehi7 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:41 am
Can any VHWs comment on post menopausal libido? My wife started menopause a few years back. I'm not sure where that puts her in this process. She still gets the occasional hot flashes but a couple years ago they were much more frequent. She claims she has no interest in sex due to a low libido. I don't feel I can ask her to go to the doctor and get on pills because it's her body. Is this low libido normal and does it go away? She had a reasonably high libido before this. Higher than average I would say. I see VHWs in their 60s having fun. She's only 48. I've tried just about everything. Last I asked her to masturbate sometime when I am not around and think about other men as an experiment...but 3 weeks have passed and nada. I am about to toss in the towel but I really don't want to give up on her and our sex life.
It's indeed her body. Does she see it as a problem? If not, there isn't much you can do.

If you're finding it to be an issue for YOURSELF as opposed to be an issue for her, as in you are missing that intimacy or shared sex life (as opposed to just wanting her to participate in this fetish), that's a separate issue that I would raise to her. I think that while libido waxes and wanes in a relationship and that no partner ever has an obligation to participate in sex, that there are natural consequences and loss of connection that occur over time in a relationship where one partner wants sex of some kind (yes, for cucks this includes denial and the like because that's still sexual connection) and one who doesn't. Both partners need to at least be aware of/acknowledge this is a potential problem, if that's the case.

If my partner had loss of libido for any reason and didn't see it as a problem, it would cause a serious weakening in our emotional bond. I might not divorce him because we still connect "sexually" in other ways (BDSM) and I can have my sexual needs met elsewhere, but it would certainly change our dynamic and the intensity of my emotions. He's allowed not to want to have sex or to choose not to have sex, but he would have to acknowledge the potentially harmful effects this may have on our marriage.
It's all fun until someone gets hurt... and then it's more fun! :whip:

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Liese » Thu May 30, 2019 1:09 pm

afagehi7 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:41 am
Can any VHWs comment on post menopausal libido? My wife started menopause a few years back. I'm not sure where that puts her in this process. She still gets the occasional hot flashes but a couple years ago they were much more frequent. She claims she has no interest in sex due to a low libido. I don't feel I can ask her to go to the doctor and get on pills because it's her body. Is this low libido normal and does it go away? She had a reasonably high libido before this. Higher than average I would say. I see VHWs in their 60s having fun. She's only 48. I've tried just about everything. Last I asked her to masturbate sometime when I am not around and think about other men as an experiment...but 3 weeks have passed and nada. I am about to toss in the towel but I really don't want to give up on her and our sex life.
I agree with SSQ.

In addition, menopause is different for every woman. My libido stayed high during, and after menopause. But a lot of my gal pals (both in and out of the lifestyle) reported loss of interest on their part. My issue was vaginal irritation due to atrophy, and taking hormone pills to correct that wasn't an option. But a great GYN MD (male, too! And much better than the woman GYN I'd been seeing) put me on topical estrogen cream, which fixed that. So if there are physical issues causing a woman discomfort, they can be addressed, if not fully cured.
Somebody should be told
My libido hasn't been controlled

afagehi7

Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by afagehi7 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:14 am

Ares wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:02 am
afagehi7 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:41 am
Can any VHWs comment on post menopausal libido? My wife started menopause a few years back. I'm not sure where that puts her in this process. She still gets the occasional hot flashes but a couple years ago they were much more frequent. She claims she has no interest in sex due to a low libido. I don't feel I can ask her to go to the doctor and get on pills because it's her body. Is this low libido normal and does it go away? She had a reasonably high libido before this. Higher than average I would say. I see VHWs in their 60s having fun. She's only 48. I've tried just about everything. Last I asked her to masturbate sometime when I am not around and think about other men as an experiment...but 3 weeks have passed and nada. I am about to toss in the towel but I really don't want to give up on her and our sex life.
Absolutely awesome answers from the two ladies above. I concur! :up: :up:
She knows it's a problem for me as I have told her but she's done nothing about it. She's the type to not take any action until things blow up completely. A couple years ago I was neglecting my bedroom duties as I was working on career so she cheated. It seems to me that I would be justified going outside the marriage but that isn't what I want to happen. Also, I am still quite bitter about the affair because she knew I was interested in Hotwife but she cheated. After confronted I tried to get her to tell me about during pillow talk and she wouldn't.

So, based on what was said I am justified in getting my needs met elsewhere but that isn't what I want. I have really been doing my best to be a good husband but it seems that the sex life is over. I am 42, in good shape, and could outperform most guys half my age so I don't want this to be the end. My frustrations increase and I am considering tossing in the towel but don't want to give up on my wife and eventually possibly become just another cheating husband but I am afraid that eventually it'll happen.

So, any additional advice is appreciated.

bluemax12

Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by bluemax12 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:29 am

Martamig, I loved your post about wanting the "suffering" by your husband. No matter how excited we are, there is still that angst, or suffering, that we deal with while our wives are out with their boyfriends. I know it's sadistic if the wives love our torment during this time, but that's exciting too. I want my hw to love my suffering, and she does. I've asked her about it and she's unable to give me a definitive reason why she likes being mean to me and making me suffer. I hint that it's because she's been mistreated by men most of her life she can now turn the tables a bit on me, with no repercussions. It's not that she likes to be mean, she loves me, but it gets her so very wet that she can! As for me, I want to be tough and reject this lifestyle, but I can't, and I accept the suffering along with the excitement!

I think it shows our wives the suffering proves we love them, and they want that most of all. Am I right hotwives?

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Liese » Fri May 31, 2019 4:43 pm

afagehi7, an affair really blows up a marriage, and destroys trust. Trust can be regained, though it takes work on the wayward spouse's part. But if that spouse doesn't do the work, a lot of marriages continue on by inertia only. You have my condolences for being in that situation.

Honestly, I'd advise that you get some couples counselling, and by counselling, I mean have an open discussion with your wife about your concerns and issues, with someone trained there to act as referee and keep the discussion focused by both partners. That's the best way to approach it. Hopefully your wife will agree; but if not, that tells you what sort of help you can expect from her going forward, unfortunately.

I'd also encourage you to not go behind her back, to have an affair. If she's not willing to work on the issue, a simple announcement that you're opening up the marriage due to unmet needs would relieve you of the burden of emulating the behavior she inflicted on you.

Good luck!
Somebody should be told
My libido hasn't been controlled

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by Suchen Zucker » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:49 am

What do you do when your wife doesn't seem to have any sex drive or any desire for you, but you have other women, sometimes much younger and attractive women, who make it clear that you could have them if you make an effort to do so?

Frankly, I'm getting bummed out dealing with her rejecting me.

She seems to think I'm some kind of pervert for thinking about sex as much as I do.She hates when she sees me reading and posting on this forum.

She thinks erotica and porn is twisted. She worries what other people might think of us if we are the least bit open sexually. I've tried everything to get her to see sex as just playing and having fun - toys, erotica, fantasy sharing, massages, sexting, etc. None of those seem to excite her enough to get her horny and thinking of sex. When we do have sex I always make sure she orgasms regardless of my own satisfaction.

She said what will work for her is us being romantic and dating like before we were married - but, even then, AFTER the house is clean, lawn mowed, weeds pulled, laundry done, bills paid, grandchild baby-sat and ALL home projects completed. In short that damn never ending list of lists she keeps in her head must magically disappear before she can unlock her legs for pleasure.

I've been experiencing soft erections but can't get it through her head that I NEED to feel that she is HOT for me. If I don't believe she wants me I just don't get really aroused.

She seems happy with the way she is, but meanwhile, I feel like I'm married to Aunt Bea from Mayberry.

Last night was our 34th wedding anniversary and she just rolled over to go to sleep. I thought to myself well fuck this and began to jack off beside her (which is not typical for me to do). I was having a hard time concentrating (being upset with her) so it was taking a while. Well, 10 minutes into it, she raises up and sharply asks "how much longer is this going to take?" Of course, that put my orgasm out of reach completely so I just gave up and tried to go to sleep myself. Why didn't she whip out her tits and shove them in my face, or grab my cock herself?

I'm considering asking her to open the marriage because I don't see her making any effort to change. I don't think I could get away with having an affair since we've been married for so long she would see the change in me I'm sure. Of course, if I suggest that I want to have sex with another woman she is going feel like I don't find her attractive or sexy... there is no winning and I'm so fucking frustrated.

I love her, but I feel like if I accept things the way they are, if I give up, a big part of me will just die.

Help me ObiWan Hotwife...

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Re: Ask a Hotwife Thread, to be answered by VHWs only!

Unread post by SSQ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 am

SZ- that's the thing- both of you have equally valid feelings. She never has to feel obligated to have sex of any sort or be sexual if she doesn't wish to. But it's just as equally valid for you to need (not want) sex in your life. This may be a fundamental incompatibility that can't be resolved, as sad as it is after that much time.

You can't make her want to have sex, nor should you be able to. But I wouldn't live in a sexless marriage, either. Have you considered seeing a marriage counselor or a sex therapist? I would never advise you to have an affair because that will destroy your marriage more than anything else and cause pain your wife doesn't deserve. It's the dishonesty that seems to burn the most. But I agree that you shouldn't have to live your life without sex. I would see if you can negotiate your way into an open relationship. Because I assume it's not that you don't find her attractive and sexy? Do you hit on her without the expectation of sex? Do you do things for her so she'd have more energy for sex?

The only part of your post where I think you were out of line is where you said why didn't she grab your cock. Honestly, if my husband wants to masturbate when I want to sleep, I tell him to get out of bed because the shaking bed is annoying. And no, I'm not going to be motivated to help him out to get it done faster if I'm too tired to want to have sex. I get your frustration, but she doesn't owe you sex.

She gets to decide her boundaries, you get to decide yours. If she is happy with your frequency of sex, then you need to decide what you want. I think the sex therapist or marriage counselor could be very helpful here.

One thing to remember- even asking for this will fundamentally change your relationship forever. She will never be able to unhear you asking for it. You need to be prepared for that. But if you're not happy with the status quo and it sounds like you're not, and I don't blame you one bit for that, then you can't continue on as you are anyway. It's a question of which direction do you want to try for change. Think of it like that.
It's all fun until someone gets hurt... and then it's more fun! :whip:

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