Economic Reality and Playing

[Tank Turner]

I used to receive emails every morning from my employer with work assignments that kept me busy most of the day. During quarantine, assignments were few and far between assuming I was able to complete them without violating mandates. Work picked up after mandates ended. About a year ago, work began slowing. Now I can go days without assignments. My wife's company has been downsizing for at least a year. Because she's under contract, she continued to receive her salary during quarantine. She worked at home, but she was not even close to as busy as she was prior to covid. She believes her job is safe. She's contracted. If she were rif'ed, she'd receive severance pay that would be far from shabby. But how long would it last?

I was thinking about my SIL & her boyfriend doing a Cancun trip. She didn't hesitate booking flights for her boyfriend and her. That got me thinking about whether we could afford to travel like we often did. My SIL is set for life. Her ex-husband made knowledgeable IT investments. His investment in Apple alone accorded my SIL to never have to worry about money. Her boyfriend is a firefighter. He easily knocks down 200k a year, probably more, and he has excellent benefits. Granted, he does not know whether his next call will be his last, as a first responder, his job is completely secure.

We're concerned but not worried...yet. We're more careful about discretionary spending. Before covid, we lived the quintessential American dream. If my wife wanted a new outfit, she bought it without hesitation. We used to do pricey restaurants without care. Now we do modest dining and try to hit happy hour. We haven't bought a new car since prior to covid.

We've always wanted to do Europe and not just for a sexcation. We always believed we'd go when we could arrange it. But we have to put two kids through college. We have to watch discretionary expenses. We could pull off a sexcation, but I'm not sure it would be wise in our economic environment. We'd eat beans & rice before we touch our kids' college savings accounts.

Has our cooling economy combined with sky high inflation curbed your HW activities?

[fireman]

Well I’d sure as fuck like to know how he’s pulling in 200K a year being a firefighter. I’ll make 160K this year, but that is working so much OT that I am NEVER home! As far as the economy putting a damper on the lifestyle, hasn’t affected it much at all. We both have government jobs so that helps, but in all honesty, we don’t do big trips aside from 1 time a year and that is fairly cheap. Most of the time it’s a night away or a spontaneous thing where we get a hotel room when she finds someone she is into.

[Tank Turner]

Hi fireman,

In what state are you a firefighter?

Check out salaries of Southern California fire departments. My SIL's boyfriend told us that when an opening occurs, candidates apply from most western states apply because CA public safety agencies pay exceptionally well. He said his department often receives close to a thousand applications for every opening. Many applicants have baccalaureate degrees.

I never considered how scientific firefighting was until my SIL's boyfriend explained how firefighters have to know how to extinguish specific types of fires and triage processes and saving lives. After listening to him, I got the impression that fire departments look for the most intelligent candidates.

It's extremely common to see expensive cars with fire caps (indicating membership of a firefighter association) on their rear windows in SO Cal. Firefighters live in some of So Cal's expensive neighborhoods.


My SIL's boyfriend said he could easily double his salary by working overtime. He said an overtime shift is 24 hours at 1.5x his regular salary.

He told us that there are firefighters at his department that made over 300k last year, most of it in overtime. I doubt that he was lying. Many firefighters marry nurses. Combine an RN's salary with a firefighter's salary, and they're living large.

Oh yeah, my SIL's boyfriend told us that his firefighter buddies love to party. I'd tend to guess that anyone working a profession where survival is always a concern relieve stress by partying.

After getting to know my SIL's boyfriend, I wish I became a firefighter. He has an exciting albeit dangerous job.

Firefighting is a profession for fearless men who love adrenaline rushes. I'm sure their wives view their husbands' profession differently. My SIL admires her boyfriend for his profession. She's attracted to fearless, masculine men. Her ex-husband was the opposite.

[Tank Turner]

Hi fireman,

The second my wife got home I asked her if I heard her sister's boyfriend correctly when he said that firefighters at his department made over 300k last year. She said I did. Not only that, she verified the boyfriend's employment status and income on that website. She wanted to protect her sister in case her boyfriend was a BS'er. My wife found out that he is a firefighter and he made over 200k last year.

While the boyfriend was divorcing his ex-wife, he tried to avoid overtime to minimize his support obligations. Until he met my SIL, he returned to working a lot of overtime. Since he and my SIL became exclusive, he cut back on OT because she wanted him to spend time with her. My SIL has no financial worries thanks to her ex-husband. Because of her ex's IT investments, she makes more than he does and she doesn't work.

I should have been a firefighter ;-)

[Farmgirl]

Has our cooling economy combined with sky high inflation curbed your HW activities?

Not at all.

[Tank Turner]

Has our cooling economy combined with sky high inflation curbed your HW activities?

Not at all.

Glad to hear it.

Many Southern Californians are not as fortunate. Gas prices are well over 5 bucks a gallon. Inflation is out of control. The housing market has cooled. Unemployment is at minimum twice what we're told. Our state budget is hemorrhaging red ink. If this state is shut down again, it might go BK. Everyone in CA knows someone who has moved out of CA due to high taxes and quality of life.

[Abrandnewstart194]

Cooling economy, and soaring inflation? Unemployment is at fifty year lows, jobs are plentiful, inflation is down, hovering around 3%, and wages are up.

Now seems a perfect time for a travel, and (modest) indulgence.

[Long Lurker 34]

I can't speak to a cooling economy vs the amount of HWing activity at all.
I did just read an article about the Teamsters having negotiated a new contract for UPS drivers to the tune of 170,000$/ann + benefits.
Gee if I'd known that's what they were making.....

[Abrandnewstart194]

Not quite that good, I’m afraid. You made me curious, so I googled the new contract, and according to the Teamsters who negotiated it, the new contract raises the average top rate a driver can earn to $49/hour, so presumably that would be a driver with many years of seniority.

Still, that’s pretty damned good money!

(Sorry for the digression from the topic under discussion, I just thought this was a really interesting bit of info!)

[2inUPMichigan]

It depends on who you ask, what questions you ask and their unique personal situation.

Not everyone spends money on playing.
Some people don't have to worry about money.
Some consider this their indulgence
Some do have to budget for playtime and it can put a halt to playing or the frequency

I hope that we all can enjoy ourselves soon

[Parsifal]

There is a basic economy underling every power structure. And from that one can postulate a commodity value for every sexual transaction. So the economic reality of these things is that despite the fluctuations of the market, procreation urges will find a way to work themselves out. The silent hand works wonders when it comes to these kinds of basic life necessities, the mother of all invention.

[Abrandnewstart194]

I agree, it’s more about how each couple prioritizes things, and regardless of the economics at any given moment, what’s right for one person would be wrong for another.

[Tank Turner]

Cooling economy, and soaring inflation? Unemployment is at fifty year lows, jobs are plentiful, inflation is down, hovering around 3%, and wages are up.

Now seems a perfect time for a travel, and (modest) indulgence.

Hi Abrandnewstart194,

My intention was not to discuss extraneous issues. My inquiry was whether economic conditions have moderated sexual indulgences.

This will be my only reply to your response.

"There are two types of people in the world, those who want to know and those who want to believe."
***Nietzsche

Unemployment and CPI are arguably the two most deceptive stats our government tells us. Actual inflation is at minimum twice what we're told. Contents of the basket of goods that determine CPI are continually manipulated to deceive Americans that inflation is lower than it is. Unemployment stats are manipulated by criteria used to defined unemployment rate. The real unemployment rate in America is close to twice what's reported. Unemployment does not distinguish underemployment: professionals in jobs for which they're overqualified due to lack of positions in their professions. Worse, the labor participation rate, a far more accurate stat of America's employment, is the lowest since recording of that stat began. You can find accurate info here:

The Fed's attempts at arresting inflation by raising interest rates have failed. The Fed cannot slow inflation. The USA has printed at least 25 trillion dollars since 2007 assuring unwieldy inflation. Every newly printed dollar debases the value of US currency in circulation. A 2013 US dollar is worth less than 2 cents compared to a 1913 US dollar. We have no room left to debase. A historical fact: every empire that has debased its currency has collapsed. We will not be an exception to that rule. The bromide of no such thing as free money is absolutely true.

Keynesian economics (printing fiat currency) has never pulled any country out of recession/depression.

Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, admitted in 1939 that every one of FDR's attempts to pull the USA out of the Great Depression were failures. He said it left they USA with a billion dollars in debt with no benefit.

California's budget deficit is at least 32 billion dollars. It will increase due to newly arrived immigrants settling here. New York Mayor Adams said that the immigrant crisis in his city will BK his city. Adams was stating an apolitical fact. CA's budget deficit is apolitical. It is factual. CA can't service its liabilities.

Businesses are bailing on CA due to it being the second highest taxed state in the nation. Californians are bailing on CA in record numbers for the same reason. Hence, CA's onerous tax burden has forced its best sources of tax revenue to relocate to tax-friendly states leaving behind those least capable of paying taxes. Those of us remaining in the Golden State who have jobs will see our taxes rise due to lost revenue.

Social Security is a legal Ponzi scheme. It's been BK for decades. Workers' SS contributions are transferred to SS recipients. The ratio of workers to SS recipients is approximately 2.5:1. That is not sustainable which is why our government recently announced that in 2033, Americans' SS payments will be slashed by $17,400.

The USA is BK. That is an apolitical fact. Our secured debt is about 33 trillion dollars. Our unsecured debt (promises to pay) add about another 200 trillion to our secured debt. No one knows the amount of Federal Reserve debt it has accumulated for which America taxpayers are libel. We're in debt to over 250 trillion dollars, an amount that is impossible to pay. Exacerbating that fact is our government continues to print fiat currency an unconscionable rates as though our politicians want to force the USA into BK.

The US dollar's status as world reserve currency (Bretton Woods) is in dire jeopardy. Post WWII, the US dollar was the only medium of exchange for settling international business transactions. The US dollar is now used by less than 60% of the world's countries for international settlements. When, not if, the US dollar is replaced as the world reserve currency, it will become worthless within minutes (hyperinflation). Countries, investment firms, mutual funds, pension funds, individuals holding US currency and assets (T-Bonds & T-Bills) denominated in the US dollar, and others will flood markets with US currency and assets. Supply and demand will cause US currency to lose all value.

The USA is closer to catastrophic economic collapse than it was in Oct '29. When it does collapse, the ensuing depression will be geometrically worse than the Great Depression.

The aforementioned are easily provable facts should you be motivated to do research.

Abrandnewstar194, I am good with what your opinion. I will not engage in argument with you. Our dire economic status is apolitical fact. When our economy does collapse, every American will experience unimaginable hardship.


My sincere best to you,

Tank

[Tank Turner]

It depends on who you ask, what questions you ask and their unique personal situation.

Not everyone spends money on playing.
Some people don't have to worry about money.
Some consider this their indulgence
Some do have to budget for playtime and it can put a halt to playing or the frequency

I hope that we all can enjoy ourselves soon

Hi 2upinMichigan,

I agree. Unfortunately, we're not in the upper 1%. Our dominant concern is ever increasing college tuition expenses.

We know that are are no substitutes for our sexual indulgences. Well, we can rely on our longtime friend and skip hoped for experiences that many here have had. We'd love to do a sexcation in Europe or another far away locale where we wouldn't have to worry about our activities getting back to our kids.

If I were able to predict the future with absolute accuracy, we could adjust accordingly.

[Abrandnewstart194]

My intention was not to discuss extraneous issues. My inquiry was whether economic conditions have moderated sexual indulgences.

And yet, here we are.

Don’t presume to harangue me, dear.

[Tank Turner]

There is a basic economy underling every power structure. And from that one can postulate a commodity value for every sexual transaction. So the economic reality of these things is that despite the fluctuations of the market, procreation urges will find a way to work themselves out. The silent hand works wonders when it comes to these kinds of basic life necessities, the mother of all invention.

That is an absolute fact. Countries with unstable economies are ruled by oppressive governmental constructs.

Adam Smith did not identify substitutes for our kinds of indulgences

We've become more circumspect about our discretionary spending. Our dominant concern is college tuition and expenses for two kids.

[Abrandnewstart194]

Hoover was such a tyrant!

[Parsifal]

There is a basic economy underling every power structure. And from that one can postulate a commodity value for every sexual transaction. So the economic reality of these things is that despite the fluctuations of the market, procreation urges will find a way to work themselves out. The silent hand works wonders when it comes to these kinds of basic life necessities, the mother of all invention.

Adam Smith did not identify substitutes for our kinds of indulgences

Adam Smith wasn't confronted by the rise of feminine power. Men kept their women in cages in those days because they could and in many cases needed to. For good reason, men felt threatened by female eroticism. Women have so many more nerves down there to activate! So what happened as economic conditions changed and power structures shifted was that some men discovered that it was easier to keep the plane from stalling by putting it in a nose dive and getting air under the wings. This is the metaphor I use to describe the power dynamic of hotwifing. Without more power, you can't keep climbing. But ironically you can use gravity to align the power dynamic so you don't have to crash. Though scary, flying is fun!

[LawyerWouldbeCuckold]

It depends on who you ask, what questions you ask and their unique personal situation.

Not everyone spends money on playing.
Some people don't have to worry about money.
Some consider this their indulgence
Some do have to budget for playtime and it can put a halt to playing or the frequency

I hope that we all can enjoy ourselves soon

VERY good points. (And I'm not even in this lifestyle).

But to address the OP's concerns- there are some great Facebook groups on FIRE- Financial Independence/Retire Early- that deal with a lot of scenarios.

Not that I've ever seen Hotwifing as one of them, but that can be a good starting point for the OP's questions.

Another thing that might assist the OP.........one thing that I've done since around/about 2011....I've become a Jedi Master in the universe of frequent flyer miles and hotel points. Almost all of my vacations to Canada (our most important neighbor to the north- LOL!!!) involved free flights to and from. For my upcoming trip to Canada, the flights will be free as well. If a person takes the time and does the right research, they can accumulate hundreds of thousands of FF miles and hotel points at a marginal cost, and then get some totally free travel (minus taxes and fees) out of it. It's a unique world (but then again, those of us who frequent this website know about unique worlds- LOL), and there are many Facebook groups and websites about the world of "Award Travel".

Hope this is helpful to the OP.

[Breakerhymen]

Not sure what you mean by cooling economy. Im doing very well as is the wife…..no curtailing activities….i see people all the time spending money left and right. Just traveled to Iceland. The number of tourists there seemed to exceed precovid numbers flights are fully booked and i see folks spending without concern……many of these folks dont think the way you do and I applaud you putting education of your kids ahead of your extracurricular activities…..and trips. By doing that early in life and being smart im now in pisition to retire early and enjoy whatever hobby and travel peak our interests

[Tank Turner]

It depends on who you ask, what questions you ask and their unique personal situation.

Not everyone spends money on playing.
Some people don't have to worry about money.
Some consider this their indulgence
Some do have to budget for playtime and it can put a halt to playing or the frequency

I hope that we all can enjoy ourselves soon

VERY good points. (And I'm not even in this lifestyle).

But to address the OP's concerns- there are some great Facebook groups on FIRE- Financial Independence/Retire Early- that deal with a lot of scenarios.

Not that I've ever seen Hotwifing as one of them, but that can be a good starting point for the OP's questions.

Another thing that might assist the OP.........one thing that I've done since around/about 2011....I've become a Jedi Master in the universe of frequent flyer miles and hotel points. Almost all of my vacations to Canada (our most important neighbor to the north- LOL!!!) involved free flights to and from. For my upcoming trip to Canada, the flights will be free as well. If a person takes the time and does the right research, they can accumulate hundreds of thousands of FF miles and hotel points at a marginal cost, and then get some totally free travel (minus taxes and fees) out of it. It's a unique world (but then again, those of us who frequent this website know about unique worlds- LOL), and there are many Facebook groups and websites about the world of "Award Travel".

Hope this is helpful to the OP.

Thanks. All relevant info is useful & helpful.

There are many hotel and flight discounted websites. This is good:

There is no need to join if a person is willing to spend time searching for discounted flights and hotel rooms. Websites dedicated to discounted fares merely make is easier.

Airlines usually post their sales on Tuesday mornings.

We have a lot of air miles from various airlines.

We're in the other 99% group. However, I will pay reasonable premiums for convenience and nonstop flights. Thinking of flying our of LAX causes anxiety. Traffic on the 405 Fwy would kill a zombie without a head shot ;-)

[Farmgirl]

Has our cooling economy combined with sky high inflation curbed your HW activities?

Not at all.

Glad to hear it.

Many Southern Californians are not as fortunate. Gas prices are well over 5 bucks a gallon. Inflation is out of control. The housing market has cooled. Unemployment is at minimum twice what we're told. Our state budget is hemorrhaging red ink. If this state is shut down again, it might go BK. Everyone in CA knows someone who has moved out of CA due to high taxes and quality of life.

It's a little different everywhere. Gas is high here as well, as is inflation. The housing market is sky-high as we have a shortage of housing around here. Our state budget has had a surplus for a long time. And, we get more Californians here than we want .

[Farmgirl]

Adam Smith wasn't confronted by the rise of feminine power. Men kept their women in cages in those days because they could and in many cases needed to. For good reason, men felt threatened by female eroticism. Women have so many more nerves down there to activate! So what happened as economic conditions changed and power structures shifted was that some men discovered that it was easier to keep the plane from stalling by putting it in a nose dive and getting air under the wings. This is the metaphor I use to describe the power dynamic of hotwifing. Without more power, you can't keep climbing. But ironically you can use gravity to align the power dynamic so you don't have to crash. Though scary, flying is fun!

Isn't it air over the wings that causes lift?

[Tank Turner]

Hi Farmgirl,

Not according to Bette Midler:



My sense of humor keeps me optimistic ;-)

[Parsifal]

Adam Smith wasn't confronted by the rise of feminine power. Men kept their women in cages in those days because they could and in many cases needed to. For good reason, men felt threatened by female eroticism. Women have so many more nerves down there to activate! So what happened as economic conditions changed and power structures shifted was that some men discovered that it was easier to keep the plane from stalling by putting it in a nose dive and getting air under the wings. This is the metaphor I use to describe the power dynamic of hotwifing. Without more power, you can't keep climbing. But ironically you can use gravity to align the power dynamic so you don't have to crash. Though scary, flying is fun!

Isn't it air over the wings that causes lift?

OMG. I can't can't get anything by you!

We could be saying the same thing. The high pressure is beneath the wings. Try blading the palm of your hand out the window of the truck driving 70. Feel the air on your palm. Tip your fingers up.