Is there a difference between denial and rejection?

[parklife]

I recently talked to my wife about denial and how I love the idea of desiring her so much and that I enjoy denial because it leaving me wnating/desiring/craving her and that in a way it was far more enjoyable than the let down I experience after orgasm. Don’t get me wrong, orgasms are amazing, but right after I can’t help but feeling ‘empty’ afterwards whereas after I bring her to orgasm, I’m full of life, energy and a feeling that I could conquer the world. She wants an orgasm anytime she has sex and she’s always pushing me to also have one. She can’t grasp the idea that I am on a sexual ‘high’ that could last days after giving her an orgasm but not getting one whereas, having an orgasm is a minute or two of pleasure and then being spent with no subsequent ‘high’. (Some might say I have PE issues, but it’s more that my wife wants/encourages a quick release because once she’s had her orgasm (which she doesn’t have thru intercourse alone so it’s often oral), she’s done…. No multiple orgasms for her and she wants me to have mine quickly to finish)


Anyway, so… for the past couple of months, I’ve been denied intercourse but for the last three weeks, we haven’t had any sex whatsoever. A few months ago, we had a week where I went down on her orally 4-5 days in a row but didn’t experience my own orgasm. It was amazing…. Absolutely one of my highlights this year. I have learned over the years that sometimes I need to let my wife also feel the thrill of pleasing her partner so there has been some give and take. That said, she never goes without orgasm and doesn’t understand my desire whatsoever. But she’s willing to play along from time to time.


Long story short (or perhaps that’s too late), I don’t know if I’m just at some sort of difficult mental jump I need to get over but in the last few days I’ve had some mental anguish trying to figure out denial versus rejection. To me, they are very different feelings and while I love denial, rejection feels painful. I’m currently feeling rejected…. She’s turned down my advances, last night gave me a curt “no, not interested” response when after a ru together I asked if she wanted to shower together. An hour ago (4:30am) I woooe up and put my hand on her side and even asleep she took my hand and pushed it away from her. Not consciously as she was asleep but still felt the sting.

I know this is a ‘me’ issue…. Not sure if it’s a particular time period an dhump I just need to get over. I don’t necessarily want to burden her with talking about as the obvious answer is, “you asked for it”…. Maybe rejection is just denial and I need to get my head right about it. Right now, denial seems an active act with possibility of achievement at some point. Denial and desire going hand in hand. We desire what we don’t have kind of thing, Rejection feels like a passive blunt act, with no desire or possibility. It’s a full stop, desire is pointless.

Hoping this is a temporary mental hurdle as part of the journey of denial and desire….

[FNQLivin]

No, you are right. Denial is active participation. Rejection is casual dismissal. To be denied is exquisite. Having someone pay enough attention to you, to know that you crave release, but also know you don’t want it. Rejection is just not pleasant.

How is the rest of your story. I used to love your updates.

[dreamer72]

Think of it more as "tease and denial". If you're being actively denied she should be teasing the hell out of you too.

Showing indifference and total lack of interest in any intimate contact is not "denial". Maybe she doesn't understand the difference?

[ugcp]

Fucking with your partners mind, not speaking in the bad behaviour sense but instead I'm talking in the psycho-sexual sense, is still a form of sex. In that light, erotic denial is still sex. It is still intimate connection. Rejection is not.

In the chastity community, they warn against the "lock it and forget it" behaviour. That type of denial doesn't generate any erotic/intimate relationship energy. There still needs to be active intimate engagement of some form for the relationship to remain strong.

You can look up the term "dead bedroom", as well as visit the subreddit for it, but be warned, that type of thing can often lead to a circle jerk of mutual reinforcing "woah is me" boo-hooing, rather than actually taking action to improve the issue.

Your problem needs more discussion with your wife. Most men that avoid this conversation do so because it requires a degree of vulnerability to admit that it is emotionally hurtful to be frequently rejected by your 1 and only source for intimate connection - the person you are closest to and love the most in the world. Periodic rejection is understandable and expected... we all have times when it's just not practical or we're not feeling it. But when it gets to a point where it is a problem, then something needs to be done. Most high-libido partners in this situation are actually pretty comforted simply by any gesture and effort by their low-libido partner, as it acknowledges their plight and demonstrates care and love by trying to do something about it (even if it doesn't actually work). They stop feeling so alone.

Focus on the fact that you and your wife are a team, and should approach this challenge together as teammates. Once you've identified and communicated the problem sufficiently defining what it is, why it's important, and how severe the problem is at this point, you should both contribute suggestions on solutions, both offering considerarion and input on each one.

Given the fact that this is a thing that can erode the strength of a marriage, and given the fact that your relationship is probably extremely important to you, it is reasonable to consider this a serious problem that requires significant attention from both of you, and no options should be passively dismissed.

[ugcp]

I should also add, erotic denial can be challenging for your partner to fulfill because it can also mean denial to them too. And if they don't have that turn-on, then it is just unsatisfying frustration for them. So if you're only offering that as the form of intimate connection, then it makes sense she would have limited interest. Mixing that play in with other intimacy (that SHE will find enjoyable and fulfilling) is key. This gets into what I meant about finding a balanced solution as a team.

[parklife]

How is the rest of your story. I used to love your updates.

Thanks for the words FNQ… I know she’s not purposely rejecting me… it’s nothing like that. But that doesn’t necessarily make it easier.

As far as our story…. Since she and Jake split about 15 months or so ago, she hasn’t had any interest in finding a new FWB. One of her guys continues to reach out every 6 months or so to touch base and while she hasn’t completely shut the door, she hasn’t bee open to revisiting either.

We continue to use the fantasy (though generically, not anyone in specific) in our own bedroom play but I took a step away from OHW just to get myself grounded and prevent getting obsessive about it. She has agreed not to kill the fantasy and acknowledges something may happen in the future, but she doesn’t see it and is 100% fine with not having any future FWBs. She’s done this before (taking a 2.5 year break), so it’s not unprecedented and right place, right time, right guy could change things. There just isn’t any probable candidates at the moment.

[parklife]

Think of it more as "tease and denial". If you're being actively denied she should be teasing the hell out of you too.

Showing indifference and total lack of interest in any intimate contact is not "denial". Maybe she doesn't understand the difference?

Thanks dreamer… funny, I use the term “tease and denial” a lot in our conversations. And she’ll be the first one to say she doesn’t understand the entire concept. Wanting to be teased and experiencing denial is something that is so foreign to her that she flat out doesn’t understand it and doesn’t really dig in to try.


I have discussed my side of it… tried to explain the rush, the joy, the desire and how it makes me feel and tried to explain how it adds to our togetherness and benefits she doesn’t even realize are there. Denial drives me to be better, to do more, to chase her…

She doesn’t understand it and I’m clearly not doing a good enough job of explaining it.

[dreamer72]

Might I also suggest you look into what some call semen retention or the tantric practice of learning to experience orgasm without ejaculation. This will preserve and build your sexual energy without experiencing the post-ejaculation drop. Many women and men don't know that it's possible and so women assume because you didn't ejaculate that you didn't orgasm. Just takes some relearning and letting go of old beliefs.

I can understand why your wife may have decided to take a break from other people, over time this kind of play/lifestyle can actually become an energy drain and it becomes more work than pleasure a d the energy going out becomes more than the energy coming in.

[parklife]

Your problem needs more discussion with your wife. Most men that avoid this conversation do so because it requires a degree of vulnerability to admit that it is emotionally hurtful to be frequently rejected by your 1 and only source for intimate connection - the person you are closest to and love the most in the world. Periodic rejection is understandable and expected... we all have times when it's just not practical or we're not feeling it. But when it gets to a point where it is a problem, then something needs to be done. Most high-libido partners in this situation are actually pretty comforted simply by any gesture and effort by their low-libido partner, as it acknowledges their plight and demonstrates care and love by trying to do something about it (even if it doesn't actually work). They stop feeling so alone.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply ugcp…. Well put and very informative.

One thing my wife and I have is a great relationship and good communication. Admittedly, it was far easier to have the open dialogue when she was an active hotwife and now that we’re currently just the two of us, it’s more ‘sticky’ (?).

I am clearly the high libido partner as my wife often has a take it or leave it relationship with sex… at least that is the case when she isn’t involved with someone. As seems to be common, when she has more sex outside our marriage, w have more sex inside the marriage.

Part of my process is talking things thru here, getting perspective, self reflection, etc prior to my conversation with my wife. Allows me to work thru my words to ensure what I trying to convey comes across appropriately.

Your point about “lock it and forget it” struck a chord with me as it’s largely been one of my biggest fears.

[dreamer72]

Thanks dreamer… funny, I use the term “tease and denial” a lot in our conversations. And she’ll be the first one to say she doesn’t understand the entire concept. Wanting to be teased and experiencing denial is something that is so foreign to her that she flat out doesn’t understand it and doesn’t really dig in to try.


I have discussed my side of it… tried to explain the rush, the joy, the desire and how it makes me feel and tried to explain how it adds to our togetherness and benefits she doesn’t even realize are there. Denial drives me to be better, to do more, to chase her…

She doesn’t understand it and I’m clearly not doing a good enough job of explaining it.

I'm sure you could find some articles out there written from the woman's/hotwifes perspective and the pleasures and benefits of it along with some ideas.

[Laveenguy]

My wife denies me b/c I am too small and it is more frustrating than satisfying to her. This could have been rejection which would have been very painful and possibly marriage ending. But by being open about her true feelings and including me in her sex life with others we have found a way to be sexual together while allowing each of us a happy place of loving attention. She gets the fulfilling sex life she craves and I get the sweet torment of knowing I am inadequate but loved just the same.

[Laveenguy]

My wife denies me b/c I am too small and it is more frustrating than satisfying to her. This could have been rejection which would have been very painful and possibly marriage ending. But by being open about her true feelings and including me in her sex life with others we have found a way to be sexual together while allowing each of us a happy place of loving attention. She gets the fulfilling sex life she craves and I get the sweet torment of knowing I am inadequate but loved just the same.

[MartasBoy]

No, you are right. Denial is active participation. Rejection is casual dismissal. To be denied is exquisite. Having someone pay enough attention to you, to know that you crave release, but also know you don’t want it. Rejection is just not pleasant.

How is the rest of your story. I used to love your updates.

Yes, I agree with what was said here. Denial is or can be a form of play. It is being denied, and usually is accompanied by teasing, to enhance sexual excitement.

Total rejection of other things, like physical touch and affection, is a whole different thing. I would want to have a conversation with my wife and explain the difference. You asked for denial, and that doesn't automatically mean you also wanted to be rejected for all of the things, like physical affection.

Denial, and complete rejection, would start to destroy a marriage, I would think.

I like rejection sometimes, when it is part of play..
If my wife says, "No, you can't touch me today, I'm preparing for a date with my lover. He would not like knowing that you were touching me while I'm wearing a sexy outfit I have chosen for him. I belong to him this weekend."

But if that was continued for very long, I would be very unhappy. I have needs for touch and affection and love. If I was shut out from getting those things, I would not feel like I was getting my needs met in the marriage.

[trecital]

When two people share sexual intimacy there are two elements to it. The first is your own sexual gratification. The second is being able to give sexual pleasure to someone else.
I think that your wife's difficulty with understanding your self denial of orgasm, is partly about you stopping her from giving you pleasure.
When you have sex, part of the pleasure is seeing how your partner gets enjoyment from your actions. It's like giving a gift to someone. The giver gets satisfaction from the action too. Or cooking a meal for someone, and seeing how much the person eating enjoys your efforts. That is the cooks reward.
By wanting denial you are depriving your wife the pleasure of her pleasing you.
She can't understand why you don't want the pleasure of an orgasm, and is possibly annoyed that you are denying her the satisfaction of pleasing you sexually.

I think you need to compromise on what you currently want. You have found that, by denying yourself an orgasm, you can maintain a sort of sexual high. Great. But, you are denying your wife the satisfaction she gets from helping you achieve orgasm.
Maybe you need to talk about it, and see if you can find a middle ground.

In my 'cooking' analogy, it's like she likes to cook for you, but you are refusing to eat..... Denying yourself in order to enjoy the feeling of hunger (Denial). Now, she has decided, "Ok, if you don't want to eat what I've cooked for you, then 'fuck you', I'm stopping cooking for you. See how you get on with that!" (Rejection).