Not a Cuckold, but Thought I'd Share My Situation

[Chrislydi]

The hardest part of counseling is getting both parties to fully commit, if she's hiding something from the therapist/counsellor it will fail. It's only as good as the people it works with. It really is up to her, if she doesn't fully engage it's finished.

[hwfanatic]

Sounds like getting to the root of her congenital lying, about things big and small, would be my focus. If that foundation isn’t laid/repaired, y’all have nothing to build on.

I suspect she’s been that way since before you two ever met. Good luck, rooting for you.

The tailwind you have, should she dig deep enough to discover and resolve her impulse to lie, is that you appear to want to share her IF she does so in a true partnership with you.

Most husbands don’t want a hotwife. So this has the potential to become an even better marriage… again if the foundation can be laid first.

[jratt85]

Sorry to say but... I told you so months ago. Leave it to an autistic person like me to see patterns that you don't. I've read FAR too many stories/articles about cheaters and cuckolds over the last 20 years and there's been some unmistakable signs, especially with her being so attached to her phone, getting pissed of at you for interrupting her time with whoever's on the phone and then coming to bed completely raring to go.. Women don't switch THAT fast and whoever was on the phone turned her on to the point that she fucked the only cock available to her at that time.. likely under his order with the promise of a special reward for it.. I'm betting not only is she cheating but she likely is with a guy with a huge cock and also is his submissive.. something you've shown is your role so now she has her Dom telling her what to do to be his good little slut. She likely has just sheltered you from the truth about how slutty she was in the past because she knew that you not only couldn't handle it but also could never be the dominant man that she needs.

As with so many other men, now you just need to get the truth out of her and figure out if your love is strong enough to really live as her cuckold, or if your pride and self esteem are stronger and you'll kick her to the curb and let her enjoy the fruits of her passion, at the cost of her family.

EDIT after finishing reading the last page instead of just the prior post: It's sad that you got so screwed over by her.. Had you been a little more open about your kink and less affraid of her reaction saying how over being slutty she was, maybe you could've explored the hotwife/cuckold dynamic together but her swearing to you that those days were in the past made you believe her and hold your desires to yourself only sharing them here instead of with her.. It all comes back to being her fault in the end. It's all because of what she told you and her lack of communicating with you of what she really needed that she decided to cheat and lie.. Communication is the key to any relationship, and she completely dropped the ball causing you to follow suit..

Don't get me wrong, nothing can change her being a liar and continually deceiving you.. That is inexcusable and unforgivable in my book, but then I've never been in love and have trust issues and a very black and white mindset thanks to being autistic and all the shit I've gone through in my life.. I'm a lot less forgiving than some. Conversation and trust, that's all that holds a relationship together, and she's shit all over both..

I hope you are able to make the right decision for you and what will make you happy.. Don't just stay in a negative relationship for your kids, the sour environment full of resentment is no place for kids to be raised.. It's better they are raised in two happy homes with happy parents than one broken home full of hate. Take care my friend, and trust in your instincts.

I agree that lots of signs were there in the last few months—and I’m sure I didn’t share everything. Looking back, I think I just felt like she would never cross the line into a physical relationship. I was naive.

I also agree that I don’t understand the full extent of their relationship. She claims the extent of it was the two sex sessions in the backseat of her car and phone calls a couple of nights a week for several weeks where they had very traditional cyber sex. She has never been interested in full masterbation, so she’s run herself a bit while they talked and then presumably after he finished, she’d come upstairs and fool around with me to get her O.

I don’t know if that’s the full extent of it, but I have to assume not because of how easily she lies about everything. It’s not just these big lies, she lies about stupid things all day long—she does it instinctively.

I had a bit of sleep last night, but I still don’t know what to do next. I can’t imagine ever trusting her again and I think she’ll cheat again—or I’ll destroy us by accusing her of cheating all the time now (which will likely manifest itself into it happening anyway).

I also am not sure she really loves me. She felt justified to cheat and she told her family that it was a good thing because it was helping our sexlife. Just two days ago she was actively debating between continuing the affair and calling it off and she couldn’t decide. Now she’s a pile of tears and apologies—it’s all so transparently fake. If this ever blows over and we continue a relationship, she will be right back where she was resenting me and justifying an affair.

On the other side, I also can’t fathom a divorce. We built a dream home together and have two young kids in a great school system. We’d swap to a life in some local condo sharing kids on altering days or whatever. I know what divorce can do to kids—though you’re right that living in a home without love is worse.

I want to be able to fix things and make this work, but the wound is too fresh and I can’t see that future right now.

It’s two horrible choices. I’ll keep breathing—which is so bizarrely hard for me right now. I’ve never had a significant anxiety attack and it feels like I’ve been in the middle of one for two days.

The thing is also that it's not just you that she's cheating on and lying to, it's your kids as well. My dad's parents divorced when he was a teen and I can tell you it definitely strained his relationship with them but he never had the best relationship with his dad anyways between being the oops 10 years after his siblings and being a bit of a stoner/hippy in the mid 70's in SoCal and his dad came from pretty strict upbringings/US Army so.. but then his dad was a "ladies man" and cheated all the time. I can tell you that stuff infects the kids in the relationship and my dad ended up cheating on my mom as well.. just not in the typical way.. and guess who figured that out -.- Cheating breeds cheating and lying breeds lying.. The best thing you can do is minimize the toxicity and move on. I know it's not going to be easy but at least going your separate ways until you cool off is probably the best. As I've said, I definitely get the trust issue, been screwed over and hurt by FAR too many people in my life. I wish you didn't have to be going through this but you are, like roughly 70% of marriages in the US these days. (yeah sad data there)

Just whatever you do, don't give in to the rage and don't take it out on the kids.. As for your reaction to it being different than you thought, as my late friend Kate used to tell me "there's a reason it's called a fantasy and not reality.. you never know how you'd actually react until you've done it.." and once again there's a difference to being willingly cuckolded and lied to and cheated on. The fact that you're saying she is just constantly lying over every little thing all day long tells me two things.. 1) you need space, 2) she needs therapy because there's obviously something going on in her head that's more than just cheating and it could be very destructive/dangerous if not taken care of.

And btw, sorry I said "told you so" sometimes it really hurts to be right about things like this.. Rarely I find myself saying it about good things but negative... it's all too common that I end up right. Definitely find yourself a good lawyer and hammer home how much it's not only ruining your relationship but your standing in town and potentially your job too. Take care.

[drstrangelove]

Sorry to say but... I told you so months ago. Leave it to an autistic person like me to see patterns that you don't. I've read FAR too many stories/articles about cheaters and cuckolds over the last 20 years and there's been some unmistakable signs, especially with her being so attached to her phone, getting pissed of at you for interrupting her time with whoever's on the phone and then coming to bed completely raring to go.. Women don't switch THAT fast and whoever was on the phone turned her on to the point that she fucked the only cock available to her at that time.. likely under his order with the promise of a special reward for it.. I'm betting not only is she cheating but she likely is with a guy with a huge cock and also is his submissive.. something you've shown is your role so now she has her Dom telling her what to do to be his good little slut. She likely has just sheltered you from the truth about how slutty she was in the past because she knew that you not only couldn't handle it but also could never be the dominant man that she needs.

As with so many other men, now you just need to get the truth out of her and figure out if your love is strong enough to really live as her cuckold, or if your pride and self esteem are stronger and you'll kick her to the curb and let her enjoy the fruits of her passion, at the cost of her family.

EDIT after finishing reading the last page instead of just the prior post: It's sad that you got so screwed over by her.. Had you been a little more open about your kink and less affraid of her reaction saying how over being slutty she was, maybe you could've explored the hotwife/cuckold dynamic together but her swearing to you that those days were in the past made you believe her and hold your desires to yourself only sharing them here instead of with her.. It all comes back to being her fault in the end. It's all because of what she told you and her lack of communicating with you of what she really needed that she decided to cheat and lie.. Communication is the key to any relationship, and she completely dropped the ball causing you to follow suit..

Don't get me wrong, nothing can change her being a liar and continually deceiving you.. That is inexcusable and unforgivable in my book, but then I've never been in love and have trust issues and a very black and white mindset thanks to being autistic and all the shit I've gone through in my life.. I'm a lot less forgiving than some. Conversation and trust, that's all that holds a relationship together, and she's shit all over both..

I hope you are able to make the right decision for you and what will make you happy.. Don't just stay in a negative relationship for your kids, the sour environment full of resentment is no place for kids to be raised.. It's better they are raised in two happy homes with happy parents than one broken home full of hate. Take care my friend, and trust in your instincts.

I agree that lots of signs were there in the last few months—and I’m sure I didn’t share everything. Looking back, I think I just felt like she would never cross the line into a physical relationship. I was naive.

I also agree that I don’t understand the full extent of their relationship. She claims the extent of it was the two sex sessions in the backseat of her car and phone calls a couple of nights a week for several weeks where they had very traditional cyber sex. She has never been interested in full masterbation, so she’s run herself a bit while they talked and then presumably after he finished, she’d come upstairs and fool around with me to get her O.

I don’t know if that’s the full extent of it, but I have to assume not because of how easily she lies about everything. It’s not just these big lies, she lies about stupid things all day long—she does it instinctively.

I had a bit of sleep last night, but I still don’t know what to do next. I can’t imagine ever trusting her again and I think she’ll cheat again—or I’ll destroy us by accusing her of cheating all the time now (which will likely manifest itself into it happening anyway).

I also am not sure she really loves me. She felt justified to cheat and she told her family that it was a good thing because it was helping our sexlife. Just two days ago she was actively debating between continuing the affair and calling it off and she couldn’t decide. Now she’s a pile of tears and apologies—it’s all so transparently fake. If this ever blows over and we continue a relationship, she will be right back where she was resenting me and justifying an affair.

On the other side, I also can’t fathom a divorce. We built a dream home together and have two young kids in a great school system. We’d swap to a life in some local condo sharing kids on altering days or whatever. I know what divorce can do to kids—though you’re right that living in a home without love is worse.

I want to be able to fix things and make this work, but the wound is too fresh and I can’t see that future right now.

It’s two horrible choices. I’ll keep breathing—which is so bizarrely hard for me right now. I’ve never had a significant anxiety attack and it feels like I’ve been in the middle of one for two days.

The thing is also that it's not just you that she's cheating on and lying to, it's your kids as well. My dad's parents divorced when he was a teen and I can tell you it definitely strained his relationship with them but he never had the best relationship with his dad anyways between being the oops 10 years after his siblings and being a bit of a stoner/hippy in the mid 70's in SoCal and his dad came from pretty strict upbringings/US Army so.. but then his dad was a "ladies man" and cheated all the time. I can tell you that stuff infects the kids in the relationship and my dad ended up cheating on my mom as well.. just not in the typical way.. and guess who figured that out -.- Cheating breeds cheating and lying breeds lying.. The best thing you can do is minimize the toxicity and move on. I know it's not going to be easy but at least going your separate ways until you cool off is probably the best. As I've said, I definitely get the trust issue, been screwed over and hurt by FAR too many people in my life. I wish you didn't have to be going through this but you are, like roughly 70% of marriages in the US these days. (yeah sad data there)

Just whatever you do, don't give in to the rage and don't take it out on the kids.. As for your reaction to it being different than you thought, as my late friend Kate used to tell me "there's a reason it's called a fantasy and not reality.. you never know how you'd actually react until you've done it.." and once again there's a difference to being willingly cuckolded and lied to and cheated on. The fact that you're saying she is just constantly lying over every little thing all day long tells me two things.. 1) you need space, 2) she needs therapy because there's obviously something going on in her head that's more than just cheating and it could be very destructive/dangerous if not taken care of.

And btw, sorry I said "told you so" sometimes it really hurts to be right about things like this.. Rarely I find myself saying it about good things but negative... it's all too common that I end up right. Definitely find yourself a good lawyer and hammer home how much it's not only ruining your relationship but your standing in town and potentially your job too. Take care.

Thanks for the message.

With regard to her lying, I do understand it, but up until now it’s just been an annoyance. She lies to avoid conflict. She is very opposed to conflict and passive aggressive. She’ll lie about everything:

“How much was the steak?”
“$20”
I’ll look at sticker and its $44 lol.

So in her mind, she thinks I might get upset with her at the cost, so she lies, but she doesn’t cover her tracks. That’s what’s so incredible about the affair—she was lying constantly and thought I was oblivious even though she wasn’t covering her tracks. The guy would only communicate via phone call and they’d delete the record of the call (he’s certainly done this before and will do it again…). So to her that was like a super cool lying method she hadn’t thought of lol and she thought I had no way of finding out.

[drstrangelove]

Sounds like getting to the root of her congenital lying, about things big and small, would be my focus. If that foundation isn’t laid/repaired, y’all have nothing to build on.

I suspect she’s been that way since before you two ever met. Good luck, rooting for you.

The tailwind you have, should she dig deep enough to discover and resolve her impulse to lie, is that you appear to want to share her IF she does so in a true partnership with you.

Most husbands don’t want a hotwife. So this has the potential to become an even better marriage… again if the foundation can be laid first.

Yes, my initial reaction included the absurd irony. For years, this was my fantasy—and throughout this thread I’ve documented pushing her toward it. But through everything she’s telling me, my efforts to push her to this through our sexlife had nothing to do with it.

I also naively thought that we could work with this and use it to build a real hotwife lifestyle. But then I realized I didn’t even have a relationship to build on. It’s literal ground zero right now. I can see your point though, I just can’t give it any attention now.

[drstrangelove]

I also want to note that I know I haven’t responded to all of the posts in this thread and the personal messages, but I’m reading everything. The out-pouring of support from this community is really special to me.

I appreciate all of you.

[Rogueuser1]

Sorry you are going through this. As you said cuckolding is a partnership where you can both enjoy it while cheating is a violation of trust.
You are in a terrible situation and I obviously don't know you well enough to truly give you advice but from my observations on this thread I really think you should put in the effort to save your marriage. While you truly are justified in choosing to divorce her that hurts the kids the most.
It sucks her family knows and they'll always know but you can still come back from this. As much as it sucks that she did it in a car in town at least no one else knows.
If you do save the marriage it is important for her to recognize and acknowledge that the trust has been broken and needs to be rebuilt.
That includes allowing you full and complete access to her phone at all times and her phone location (if it has such an app). She needs to show you that she can be trusted again.
You should also have a real and open conversation with her about your cuckold desires moving forward - are they gone now? Or can you guys hammer out a way for her to live them out in a way that doesn't violate trust?
Take your time and don't do anything quick - think fully about what you are doing and how you will feel about it 5 years, 10 years, even 20 years from now vs. how you feel right now. Try to think of the end state you actually want in your marriage and think about the path to get there and see if she is willing to travel that path with you.

[drstrangelove]

Sorry you are going through this. As you said cuckolding is a partnership where you can both enjoy it while cheating is a violation of trust.
You are in a terrible situation and I obviously don't know you well enough to truly give you advice but from my observations on this thread I really think you should put in the effort to save your marriage. While you truly are justified in choosing to divorce her that hurts the kids the most.
It sucks her family knows and they'll always know but you can still come back from this. As much as it sucks that she did it in a car in town at least no one else knows.
If you do save the marriage it is important for her to recognize and acknowledge that the trust has been broken and needs to be rebuilt.
That includes allowing you full and complete access to her phone at all times and her phone location (if it has such an app). She needs to show you that she can be trusted again.
You should also have a real and open conversation with her about your cuckold desires moving forward - are they gone now? Or can you guys hammer out a way for her to live them out in a way that doesn't violate trust?
Take your time and don't do anything quick - think fully about what you are doing and how you will feel about it 5 years, 10 years, even 20 years from now vs. how you feel right now. Try to think of the end state you actually want in your marriage and think about the path to get there and see if she is willing to travel that path with you.

Thank you.

We had a very good day of conversation and I'm in a significantly better headspace now. I'm still hung up on a few things:

1. How she could do this to our children--she either doesn't value our marriage and their happiness at the same level as I do or she was so completely unhappy that she felt it was worth the risk. She says it's the latter and that she completely disregarded the risk to them prior to being caught. Still, if she was that unhappy, we have a long road to go to build back.

2. Can she really love me after disrespecting me so brazenly? The mosaic is damning--not just the affair, but all the conversations with friends and family shitting on me constantly. She painted me as such an awful partner when she knows it's bull shit. I suspect much of it was her preparing for the outcome that she's caught and needs to justify her actions to friends and family. She doesn't agree though--she didn't think her comments were malicious. Even worse, she deleted them all at some point yesterday (after I read them all), so now we can't even go through them and dig into her intent.

3.The guy's wife is really sticking with me. I woke up at 5 a.m. this morning crying as I scrolled through her IG account. The photos of her and her three-year old haunted me. My wife embarked on this affair with entirely selfish intentions (as did the guy). To devastate two families with such ease crushes me. I've come around to wanting the woman to know, but my concern is that it will blow up this entire affair publicly. The guy and his wife are both on the PTA and part of a wider circle of friends. If the woman finds out, I'm sure she'll tell her friends and that jeopardizes my life in this town. I feel so selfish even comparing the two positions, but I've decided to let it lie for a bit and discuss it with the therapist once we go.

Truthfully, the sex part of this I feel is something I can move past IF we can regain trust and love. A others have said, it could even lead us to a more fulfilling relationship.

Lastly, the trust is something I'm unsure about, but ultimately, I think I can manage it as long as she's understanding about it. The tracking thing might help, but if she knows she's being tracked and wants to cheat, she'll just leave her phone at home. Same with the phone access--she'll just sanitize/delete all her texts. If she wants to cheat, she will and it'll be on me to recognize the signs and then dig in. But I'm giving this problem more thought as it's honestly new to me. I've spent my life occasionally worried about her safety if she doesn't respond to a text in a reasonable timeframe, but not once have I thought she was cheating--now I know that's all I'll think about.

[Rogueuser1]

Again, I have a very narrow picture on this so take what a say with a big grain of salt.
1) Was she really unhappy... or was she bored and felt like she deserved more - either being desired more or just more excitement. It sounds like she doesn't work outside the home and so had too much time to sit around and not feel valued. Those (being bored or not feeling valued) are different then being unhappy. This ultimately comes down to her being selfish - especially since she should have known she had hall pass and just had to not hide it from you.
2) It sounds like she was getting herself psyched up for the affair by magnifying your worst traits. If she thought about how great you were she wouldn't cheat on you so she had to think of your worst qualities and blow them out of proportion in her own mind to justify her action. In her mind her comments properly were not malicious --- they were not meant to hurt you in anyway. It's unfortunate she chose to share those rationalizations with others but again, this was more about her and her being selfish then it was about you.
3) My biggest advice: don't. If you really want what is best for their three year old kid... be silent. For all you know this is his one and only taste of forbidden fruit and he'll be back on the straight and narrow and be a better husband after this. Regardless, if you do tell her and it gets ugly everyone in your town will know you are a cuckold of the worst sort --- the involuntary kind. It will make it very hard, likely impossible, for you to stay with your wife if it blows up and the entire town knows. Do you really want to live with everyone knowing that your wife stepped out on you and you had no idea? It's hard to imagine any positive outcomes from telling the wife with the exception of you getting some small amount of revenge.
You should be able to clone her phone so you receive all her texts and you can view the call records through your cell provider. It would probably be good for you to find out his number specifically and then you can watch for it anyway. You can also go back a bit and check the timeline. But if you build up to the right level of relationship she'll be happily telling you about all of her sexual conquests anyway so maybe it won't matter? As long as you still want that that is.

[BigHotMess]

You absolutely need to tell his wife. What’s worse? Having an awful husband and giving him a leash to manipulate finances, expose her to STDs, etc? She should know. She is an adult and can handle this just as well as you can.

As to the fallout, that would be in your wife. Not you.

[jratt85]

if you think that her hooking up with other people is going to somehow save your relationship, you are sadly mistaken. Listen to any sex therapist talk about cuckolding/swinging (like Caitlyn V, I like her videos) if your marriage is weak to begin with it'll only destroy it, it never repairs it. You need to be in a good place and fully trust and support each other, even if you can forgive her it's obvious she thinks nothing of you and is going to continue being toxic. The fact that she's tried to turn her family against you already shows that. Here's two videos from two different therapists for you.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01p01OGAYYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jdglRxTrI If you do a search on youtube I'm sure you can easily find more on the subject. Everything I've read says that people that start swapping/poly/cuckolding when their marriage is on the rocks thinking it'll fix it, just destroy it.. it almost never works to fix it. There's just no trust and love and without those any relationship is doomed. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ationships might be a good place to start.

[drstrangelove]

Update:

We spent a lot of time talking yesterday, then the entire evening from 7:30-12 or so. It was a productive talk—largely focused on the conversations she had with her family and her view of me and her relationship with him.

I also discussed with her having a physical connection again. We both understood we would eventually have sex again and I was unsure how to proceed. Ultimately, we decided to have sex at the end of the night. It was raw and emotional. We embraces each other naked and kissed, cried and held each other. It then progressed to some light foreplay and then very intimate missionary sex. I came in her stomach and she had a very strong orgasm.

We discussed it afterward. She said she hasn’t felt that close to me since the early days of our relationship. And she had never had sex so intimate and emotional before.

For me it was hard to place. All of her thoughts are true, but I was surprised by how familiar it felt—meaning, it didn’t feel like the seminal event I was expecting.

I also found myself imagining her first time with the guy and didn’t know how to process it. The sexual side of me wanted to lean into it and be turned on by it. A part of me considered briefly even verbalizing it—maybe picking up the pace and asking if he fucked her as hard. But the other 90% of me resisted—I wasn’t mentally ready to do that. I wanted it to be about healing, though I’m unsure yet if it had an affect on me.

She fell asleep and I tossed and turned for a couple of hours—my body has been in disarray: anxiety, mind racing, GI discomfort. I finally dozed off for a bit between 2-3:30, but woke up and my mind went right back to more questions.

I’ve been noting questions on my phone and to remember for our conversations and my wife woke up—we went down stairs and talked more from 4-7 a.m.

I told her about various things in her story that rang untrue to me and again pleaded with her for complete honesty. She volunteered another physical contact—on Dec. 28, they coordinated a run together and met up at a park, chatted and kissed a few times. She also mentioned the first spark being on Dec. 4 at a PTA event, though nothing physical happened.

I told her we needed to do the full time line again, with every detail. My feeling as been I’ve been learning of things over the endless hours and gradually healing from them, but there has always been something new, that spirals me back to go through the pain again. I just need to go through every detail so I can find closure.

We started to go through the timeline again, using my texts with her, this thread, what we know about her conversations with her family. All of it—literally day by day and I wanted her to focus on every viscous, hurtful detail so I could take it all in at once rather than this hellish drip feed.

Quite simply, it’s too much to write out, but I also want to provide as much context as I can to better inform any feedback from all of you. Thus far, this is where we are at:

Sept+Oct: They first meet in Sept, see each other as part of PTA for a couple of events.

Dec. 4: a PTA event where they’re the only ones left cleaning up. They’re chatting/flirting, and my wife recognized and awkward pause where it felt like they could have kissed, but they don’t.

He calls her on the 6th~ (which was odd at time) and asks if she’ll be attending the PTA holiday party on the 17th. She says she will and he’s happy to hear it. She leaves the conversation feeling like there’s a spark growing.

Dec. 17: the PTA meets at a local restaurant for the party. The guy’s wife, also on the PTA is there as well. There is a point in evening where a mom is talking about masking and the room got a bit tense—my wife and the guy locked eyes across the table and she recognized a very flirty look. Around 10:30 I text her telling her I’m going to bed and she says she loves me.

She gets up from the table to go pee (bathroom upstairs). She emerges from bathroom and he’s standing there. Without a word, he puts his tongue in her mouth. She’s shocked, but kisses back. They break, and she tells him they can’t do this. He kisses her again, she kisses back, riding the wave of passion.

She came to find out this week, when she called to break it off with him, that his wife was very suspicious that something happened between them that night, but he claims to have killed it.

She doesn’t hear from him all weekend, so she’s anxious because she wants to see him again. On Monday (Dec. 20) he texts and they talk about how exciting it was and they want to meet again. Her parents were coming for Christmas and things were too busy to meet. The following Monday (Dec. 27), they connect and agree to both go for a run and meet at a park the next day.

Dec. 28: they jog to a local park to meet and walk around the neighborhood. They talk about the holidays and she vents about issues with me. Intermittently, he stops and kisses her. They circle back past our house (different street), approaching the main road and he kisses her again and she’s nervous to be so out in the open with him.

Following that, she was open to the idea of sex with him and they both wanted to meet again. Scheduling was difficult because with the holiday timing and pandemic, I was working from home entirely and she didn’t want to risk anything with me home. She kept probing to see when I’d be going to work—through texts and I recall verbally. She was getting frustrated with me that I was always around and she couldn’t plan anything.

She began getting desperate and while at work on Jan. 12, they spoke and planned to meet up at 10 a.m. in the big parking lot in town. She had an errand to run, so thought she could go while I was home working.

Jan. 14: At 10 a.m. she runs her errand and drives to the secluded part of the parking lot. She parks next to him and gets in his passenger seat. They chat for a bit—he leans in and kisses her. He puts his hand on her thigh and she reaches out to rub his dick through his jeans.

He asks if she wants to have sex and she says yes. He tells her to go in the back and they climb through. My wife takes off her shirt and jeans, wearing only a black bra and thong. She takes off his Henley and pants while he gets a condom. It’s her first look at his dick—it’s small (about 5 inches) and she goes to fondle his balls and they’re small as well.

She lies back on the seat and takes off her thong, he leans forward and slides inside her and she raises her legs onto his shoulders. He fucks her for close to 15 minutes. He’s very rough with her, but because of his smaller dick, she’s able to take it for a long time in that position. She cums about halfway through and they tell each other how good it feels. She cums again, hard, when he cums (inside her, into the condom).

They talk about how amazing the sex was—they both say they haven’t had sex that good in years. She says she wants to see him again and he tells her they’ll find a date. She goes back to her car, he throws the condom into the dumpster nearby.

She arrives home around 10:30 or so and I’m on a work call. She immediately goes upstairs for a shower—I didn’t notice the red flag as she had already showered earlier that morning.

Week of Jan. 17: They text about how good it was. They have cyber sex for the first time on Jan. 19—my wife lied about having to stay up to work. It was basic cyber, describing things they wanted to do to each other. He came, but she didn’t touch herself.

You can read my post on Jan. 22 where I describe the week for context—she came up that night and gave me a BJ and swallowed. Which was the first time that happened in years. She says she was just so turned on.

The following night, Jan. 20, was the “Vampire Diaries” night from my post when I went downstairs at 12:30 and suspected she may have been talking to a guy. She had already finished getting him off and they were chatting about favorite sex positions (he said reverse cowgirl) but I didn’t hear anything. Moments earlier she had striped to her underwear and sent him a photo to help him cum.

When she came upstairs at 1, I was still awake and I gave her oral and came from her foot job.

The following morning she had me stay in bed after she dropped off our child. She came home and fucked me reverse cowgirl. She said it wasn’t because it was his favorite position, but because it was also mine (true) and she felt guilty for never doing it for me. She says the week of hot sex events with me was partially guilt, but more so being incredibly turned on and feeling insatiable.

This is where we paused. We will pick up from Jan 22 through her being caught tonight and I’ll make another post.

I know this is incredibly long, but I’m writing it for my sake. I want a record to keep this clear on my mind. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever done and want to complete it thoroughly so I can hope to move on.

[nekkedoutdoors]

You are moving in a positive direction. So very happy for the both of you. But please don't blow up what you've already accomplished and most importantly don't blow up the honest trusting future you are building with your kinks. Don't do it. Do not by any means use anything from her affair as sex talk or fodder with her. You will only be validating her betrayal in her mind and she will read it as a green light to do it again if she thinks it turns you on if caught. Maybe the situation can revisited in a couple of years, but as of now, don't.

[Rogueuser1]

As bad as this all is it sounds like you are handling it amazingly well --- I am glad we can be here as an outlet and a sort of writing therapy for you. Keep your chin up and keep fighting for your kids and your marriage.
I agree you made the right call on not brining up the affair as part of sex talk right now. You guys have a few miles to go on your journey of healing and restoration, in my opinion anyway, before you can do that. It probably is a good idea to bring up your fantasies and the hall pass sooner rather than later with the counselor (so make sure it is someone you trust!) so that doesn't come as a surprise later... but that is a separate event from her affair and should be dealt with as something to consider moving forward rather than as mixed up with all of this.

[drstrangelove]

Again, I have a very narrow picture on this so take what a say with a big grain of salt.
1) Was she really unhappy... or was she bored and felt like she deserved more - either being desired more or just more excitement. It sounds like she doesn't work outside the home and so had too much time to sit around and not feel valued. Those (being bored or not feeling valued) are different then being unhappy. This ultimately comes down to her being selfish - especially since she should have known she had hall pass and just had to not hide it from you.
2) It sounds like she was getting herself psyched up for the affair by magnifying your worst traits. If she thought about how great you were she wouldn't cheat on you so she had to think of your worst qualities and blow them out of proportion in her own mind to justify her action. In her mind her comments properly were not malicious --- they were not meant to hurt you in anyway. It's unfortunate she chose to share those rationalizations with others but again, this was more about her and her being selfish then it was about you.
3) My biggest advice: don't. If you really want what is best for their three year old kid... be silent. For all you know this is his one and only taste of forbidden fruit and he'll be back on the straight and narrow and be a better husband after this. Regardless, if you do tell her and it gets ugly everyone in your town will know you are a cuckold of the worst sort --- the involuntary kind. It will make it very hard, likely impossible, for you to stay with your wife if it blows up and the entire town knows. Do you really want to live with everyone knowing that your wife stepped out on you and you had no idea? It's hard to imagine any positive outcomes from telling the wife with the exception of you getting some small amount of revenge.
You should be able to clone her phone so you receive all her texts and you can view the call records through your cell provider. It would probably be good for you to find out his number specifically and then you can watch for it anyway. You can also go back a bit and check the timeline. But if you build up to the right level of relationship she'll be happily telling you about all of her sexual conquests anyway so maybe it won't matter? As long as you still want that that is.

I think you’re spot on with every point.

It was boredom and lack of spark in her life. She felt sexually dead inside and wanted to know if she could feel something again.

As for telling Rachel, I have zero interest in revenge. And I think your suggestion is the best one for me and my family. I just had a feeling of overwhelming guilt for that woman.

Through our talks my wife realizes that she was a conquest for him—and was not the first affair for him. She also is certain he’ll cheat again. Having the power to help that woman and choosing not to is something I’m going to have to try to live with—but I can’t let it take any of my focus right now. I can barely help myself, so I’m in no position to do anything for someone else.

I’m not clear how to do any of that on our phones—I’m troubleshooting getting the phone tracking working still. Are you saying there’s a way for us to retrieve all her old messages she deleted?

As for the future, I don’t think we can survive returning to before. We both have strong sexual desires that were being repressed. And I don’t think I could function like before knowing this happened—on an emotional level, it has tarnished my fetish. It’s also hard for me to see a cuckold relationship working out—we’re just so far away from the trust needed right now. I need to keep going one day at a time though.

[Rogueuser1]

You can definitely recover deleted text messages --- there are apps to pull things out of deleted storage but it might be as easy as just restoring her last android or icloud backup. Even when deleted things are still "there" until they are actually written over in memory. Deleting something doesn't actually eliminate it from the device (in general).
Does she have an iphone: https://www.macworld.com/article/234919 ... phone.html
Or an android: https://www.howtogeek.com/779687/how-to ... n-android/

As far as going forward --- there are a bunch of "parent" apps to help keep track of what your kids are doing on their phones that you could install on her phone to help you monitor it.
Here is a starter list:https://famisafe.wondershare.com/child- ... sages.html
Our kids aren't old enough to worry about this yet so I haven't done any deep research but it is on my list of things to do...
As part of rebuilding mutual trust I would suggest doing this openly and letting your wife know. That of course runs the danger of her trying to get around it but it also adds a deterrence aspect --- better to deter bad behavior and stop it then catch her in another affair right?
But it really is up to you, especially if she is not at all tech saavy you can probably install this without her knowing.

Last advice: Don't ask questions you don't necessarily want the answer to - you can't unlearn things. Only you can decide how much information you actually want just make sure you are ready to receive it.

[drstrangelove]

You can definitely recover deleted text messages --- there are apps to pull things out of deleted storage but it might be as easy as just restoring her last android or icloud backup. Even when deleted things are still "there" until they are actually written over in memory. Deleting something doesn't actually eliminate it from the device (in general).
Does she have an iphone: https://www.macworld.com/article/234919 ... phone.html
Or an android: https://www.howtogeek.com/779687/how-to ... n-android/

As far as going forward --- there are a bunch of "parent" apps to help keep track of what your kids are doing on their phones that you could install on her phone to help you monitor it.
Here is a starter list:https://famisafe.wondershare.com/child- ... sages.html
Our kids aren't old enough to worry about this yet so I haven't done any deep research but it is on my list of things to do...
As part of rebuilding mutual trust I would suggest doing this openly and letting your wife know. That of course runs the danger of her trying to get around it but it also adds a deterrence aspect --- better to deter bad behavior and stop it then catch her in another affair right?
But it really is up to you, especially if she is not at all tech saavy you can probably install this without her knowing.

Last advice: Don't ask questions you don't necessarily want the answer to - you can't unlearn things. Only you can decide how much information you actually want just make sure you are ready to receive it.

So the iPhone backup option would be ideal, but she doesn’t have text messages checked to be backed up. I checked it now, but I assume if I backup from an old version she won’t have any texts.

The other options don’t seem to work, though I could try one of the third party companies.

The spy software all costs some significant money, but I’ll look into setting it up possibly.

As for the questions, I feel like I want to know everything—the worst part of this process for me is hearing an awful fact, processing it, trying to move past it, then hearing another awful fact.

Admittedly, it’s not easy hearing it in the first place, and at times I’m probably taking on too much at once.

I know my personality though—I can be a perfectionist and a completionist. Missing pieces of the story will stick with me forever. It’s the way I know how to move forward, though I’m not doing it with any certainty.

[drstrangelove]

if you think that her hooking up with other people is going to somehow save your relationship, you are sadly mistaken. Listen to any sex therapist talk about cuckolding/swinging (like Caitlyn V, I like her videos) if your marriage is weak to begin with it'll only destroy it, it never repairs it. You need to be in a good place and fully trust and support each other, even if you can forgive her it's obvious she thinks nothing of you and is going to continue being toxic. The fact that she's tried to turn her family against you already shows that. Here's two videos from two different therapists for you.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01p01OGAYYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jdglRxTrI If you do a search on youtube I'm sure you can easily find more on the subject. Everything I've read says that people that start swapping/poly/cuckolding when their marriage is on the rocks thinking it'll fix it, just destroy it.. it almost never works to fix it. There's just no trust and love and without those any relationship is doomed. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ationships might be a good place to start.

I don’t think us having an open relationship with save the marriage.

I am curious that if we save the marriage, could we also gradually build in some form of open relationship. I’m not certain I could handle it though; it’s just ironic because I feel like now my wife is in a position to one day be more open to it.

[afagehi7]

It was suggested that you seek legal counselling. I highly suggest you do that, but if you chose not to, I still suggest that you let her know that you have. You should also tell her that you have obtained the wife's contact information and any further contact on her part with the husband and you will have no choice but to inform the wife of the affair.

While they might be empty threats, you must let her know in no uncertain terms that you are not fucking around. It sounds extreme, but you just wrote; "She’s been crying all day, but it rings hollow for me—she’s upset she got caught, not that she did it." and "I don’t think she has a firm grasp of the severity of the shitstorm we’re in." A reality check of consequences will certainly give a much better understanding of "the shitstorm" you're in.

I have a prenup with her and I plan to contact my lawyer to note the event.

As for the guy—we’ve discussed and she’s going to call him in the morning to separate entirely. I have no interest in meddling with his wife. Any further contact with the guy behind my back would end the marriage anyway—of all the coming possibilities, I don’t think that one’s coming. This does not seem to be an in-depth emotional relationship, though I suppose it could have become one. I think the guy is glad to get out without incident at this point.

Don't tell her about the prenup or that you're contacting a lawyer. This is the nuclear option, your preparing but hopefully you don't have to use it.

I had the same thing happen to me. It's not the cheating that hurts the most, it's that she knew it would be a big fantasy for me but instead of letting us get any enjoyment from it they hid it and lied. We would have loved them fucking another guy but we should be involved on some level.

Man, I remember the head spinning and anger and betrayal. If you need to talk it out, pm me and we'll make some arrangements

[drstrangelove]

It was suggested that you seek legal counselling. I highly suggest you do that, but if you chose not to, I still suggest that you let her know that you have. You should also tell her that you have obtained the wife's contact information and any further contact on her part with the husband and you will have no choice but to inform the wife of the affair.

While they might be empty threats, you must let her know in no uncertain terms that you are not fucking around. It sounds extreme, but you just wrote; "She’s been crying all day, but it rings hollow for me—she’s upset she got caught, not that she did it." and "I don’t think she has a firm grasp of the severity of the shitstorm we’re in." A reality check of consequences will certainly give a much better understanding of "the shitstorm" you're in.

I have a prenup with her and I plan to contact my lawyer to note the event.

As for the guy—we’ve discussed and she’s going to call him in the morning to separate entirely. I have no interest in meddling with his wife. Any further contact with the guy behind my back would end the marriage anyway—of all the coming possibilities, I don’t think that one’s coming. This does not seem to be an in-depth emotional relationship, though I suppose it could have become one. I think the guy is glad to get out without incident at this point.

Don't tell her about the prenup or that you're contacting a lawyer. This is the nuclear option, your preparing but hopefully you don't have to use it.

I had the same thing happen to me. It's not the cheating that hurts the most, it's that she knew it would be a big fantasy for me but instead of letting us get any enjoyment from it they hid it and lied. We would have loved them fucking another guy but we should be involved on some level.

Man, I remember the head spinning and anger and betrayal. If you need to talk it out, pm me and we'll make some arrangements

I haven’t brought up the prenup—though she’s aware of it because she signed it before our marriage obviously. I haven’t contacted a lawyer yet and certainly haven’t brought it up as a threat. We have scheduled our first therapist appointment for Tuesday.

Your similar situation has been a big part of my thoughts thus far. She knew my fetish and still did it behind my back. It seems so obvious that there was intent, or that perhaps she felt protected from reprisal because I’d be into if I found out.

However, thus far she has said that’s not true. She is committed to this primarily being about her finding a spark with a new guy and being unable to resist the urge to pursue it. I haven’t really pushed the sex fetish angle on this yet because I’ve been focused on other areas, but it is something I’ll raise with her. I’ve already told her about this thread and I’m open to walking her through it even. We’ll see though.

[jratt85]

Definitely get things set up with a lawyer.. having your ducks in a row ahead of time establishes... not an alibi what's the word I'm looking for?... basically history. If it's marked now then anything that happens from now until then (whenever/whatever then is) is legally recorded and can be used to help your case in the long run instead of just being possibly dismissible as a lie from you to try to screw her over. Remember women are still given all the credit in the world by most judicial systems, it's one area where they are still guarded and we get shafted. As a man you need to have everything doubly noted and varified all the way through if it ever goes to court, whether next month or 20 years from now.. including her trying to turn her family against you. You definitely dropped the ball on not copying her messages for proof.. something I did as well when I caught on that my dad was cheating on my mom.. she still believed me but if she would've had the actual messages... but then they contained things that she really didn't need to read I don't think.. (not that I needed to know that either..) Anyways, just trying to relate not take over.. unfortunately it's one of the few areas I actually have experience in in this world.
As for the lawyer stuff... yeah I've watched FAR too many real life lawyer shows over the years.. no clue why I watch that crap but I do.. Can't stand lawyers and politics but somehow I'm always grabbed by both and know FAR too much about them. I blame being autistic and a Libra-Scorpio cusper.. it's just in my nature to be so analytical and anal in general lol.

Focus on one thing at a time.. protect yourself/your assets and your kids, and work on your relationship, leave any thoughts of her fucking other people or being your Domme or anything like that until after you get shit figured out.

This thread, and numerous others definitely are reminding me of the old Chinese adage/the scene in Men of Honor "you know what the Chinese say Cooky? Be careful what you wish for.."

[drstrangelove]

Definitely get things set up with a lawyer.. having your ducks in a row ahead of time establishes... not an alibi what's the word I'm looking for?... basically history. If it's marked now then anything that happens from now until then (whenever/whatever then is) is legally recorded and can be used to help your case in the long run instead of just being possibly dismissible as a lie from you to try to screw her over. Remember women are still given all the credit in the world by most judicial systems, it's one area where they are still guarded and we get shafted. As a man you need to have everything doubly noted and varified all the way through if it ever goes to court, whether next month or 20 years from now.. including her trying to turn her family against you. You definitely dropped the ball on not copying her messages for proof.. something I did as well when I caught on that my dad was cheating on my mom.. she still believed me but if she would've had the actual messages... but then they contained things that she really didn't need to read I don't think.. (not that I needed to know that either..) Anyways, just trying to relate not take over.. unfortunately it's one of the few areas I actually have experience in in this world.
As for the lawyer stuff... yeah I've watched FAR too many real life lawyer shows over the years.. no clue why I watch that crap but I do.. Can't stand lawyers and politics but somehow I'm always grabbed by both and know FAR too much about them. I blame being autistic and a Libra-Scorpio cusper.. it's just in my nature to be so analytical and anal in general lol.

Focus on one thing at a time.. protect yourself/your assets and your kids, and work on your relationship, leave any thoughts of her fucking other people or being your Domme or anything like that until after you get shit figured out.

This thread, and numerous others definitely are reminding me of the old Chinese adage/the scene in Men of Honor "you know what the Chinese say Cooky? Be careful what you wish for.."

I called the lawyer.

As for messages, I should have copied them, but none of them I saw were literal, just heavily incriminating. So under that logic, I have plenty of texts between us from the other day admitting to what was done—so I don’t think that’s an issue if it comes to that.

[Mad Dog65]

Echoing what many have said here and from similar experiences myself, I think it is great that you all are talking things through and taking the first steps to establish a basis of trust that has been totally destroyed. Start small and work with a therapist that you both like. I totally understand your desire for a tracking app and spyware. While this approach may help in knowing where she is, it does not encourage trust and it could cause resentment from her that you are treating her like an untrustworthy person which she has shown she is capable of as you know. It is really now up to her to now demonstrate that she wants this to work and can be trusted. She may do this again and she may not. She knows if she does it is the end and that she will lose everything. Document as you need to and identify less intrusive rules for each other such as both of you agreeing to not delete your text and phone history and that you both have access to each others phone on demand. I would suggest that both of you step back from PTA and other more public events to families that you are close to to help you focus on your family and what you all need. There is some great advise on this thread!

MD

[afagehi7]

Personally I wouldn't tell her about this thread. You need somewhere to vent and talk it out and she doesn't need to be privy to your thoughts and feelings unless you want to tell her. I wouldn't bring it up again.

Yeah I know how you feel... Even after I busted wife I would ask her to tell me about it, did she suck his cock, did he fuck her good, etc .. she refused... I even asked her to continue but she wouldn't. That was a real knife... She's already fucking him on work trips and obviously enjoying it because she did it more than once... But she refused... WTF, perfect opportunity to make it something we could both enjoy but nope... Not even a little bit... I'm still bitter about it 4 years later... Not the fucking but the deceit and not letting it become something for us both. I haven't brought it up in years but my dream of trying hotwifing is totally dead...

Ya know, if her biggest fantasy was for me to suck a cock while she watched, I would do it for her at least once (and I'm straight). But she loves sucking cock and she won't even try for me... Well obviously she'll do it if I don't know. Unlike you, I don't think she'll do it again anytime soon, 10 years later who knows but for now I doubt it

[Chrislydi]

Most therapists will actually tell her she needs to earn that trust back by being completely transparent, part of that process may well be installing a tracking app and spyware, she needs to demonstrate that she's worthy of trusting before any trust can truly be established.

She can hardly help build that trust between you if she doesn't show willing to build bridges and that she truly had turned over a new page. To me the spyware and tracking app may well help her give you back that confidence and show that she's determined to be as open as possible this time