Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[stellers26]

Samanthasman, really simple question, I have asked several times before.

What is she a doctor of? This is really important to me and my understanding of her.

Pretty clear he is not going to answer the question....he reads all your posts and makes no mention of ANY of your numerous request for this info.
I really wonder about the veracity of the entire post, given the unbelievable drama involved. Back and forth, high and low, posts seemingly designed to insight the readership, but without resolution....

[Samanthasman]

Samanthasman, really simple question, I have asked several times before.

What is she a doctor of? This is really important to me and my understanding of her.

Pretty clear he is not going to answer the question....he reads all your posts and makes no mention of ANY of your numerous request for this info.
I really wonder about the veracity of the entire post, given the unbelievable drama involved. Back and forth, high and low, posts seemingly designed to insight the readership, but without resolution....

I responded to MrsT privately.

Yes of course this is a very elaborate hoax. Thx.

[Mojo123]

Question: you get boatloads of advice, action plans, shoulders to cry on (of varying quality) here on this forum. Who is Sam's sounding board as she "processes" the goings on…anyone getting a peek behind her curtain? Anyone she trusts to give her a (different) datapoint on the lying & 75% vs. 100% thing?

[wildrollercoaster]

...

Sexuality is a very emotion-inducing and self-absorbing topic.

Many go off the deep end at the notion that someone else could have more than one lover, although they wouldn't think twice about loving more than one parent, child, sibling, friend or pet. Some ostracize or kill a family member whose lover or spouse doesn't meet their approval. Some fight to discredit or punish those whose sexual orientation varies from their own.

Some recognize, accept and try to understand the power of sexuality, in whatever form it takes. They believe, as I do, that sexuality isn't something you can just turn on or off to suit societal preferences.

Others aren't so accommodating, or can't even see clearly enough through the topic to try. Some feel gay folks should just abstain from gayness. Some feel unmarried people should just abstain from sex. Some wish to deprive others of birth control, because surely abstinence is the answer. And so on.

Though I expect to be burned at the stake for this statement, some forum members seem to be falling into the former group, but in a less mainstream context. They don't seem to accept that your wife may be struggling to be true to both you and herself, recognizing the overwhelming power of her sexuality. Yes, it's true: love/lust/whatever can overwhelm. Some don't get that, while others can't help literally risking their lives for it.

Her sexuality may be selfish by the standards of some, just as many feel gay/unmarried/coloured/teenage/whatever sexuality is, but that perspective (judgement) doesn't solve much. On the contrary, I believe it induces people to lie.

I don't know your wife so I wouldn't dream of judging her character. I've no idea whether she's overwhelmed by her sexuality and lust for another, or simply likes to be bossy. How you feel about where she is on that continuum is subjective, and it's up to you to know how much you respect her character, obviously.

In many cases, sexuality and other driving forces don't quite fit within the context of a specific marriage commitment or societal expectations. In such cases, I believe we'd do well to adjust those expectations instead of pointing fingers at those who don't quite fit them.

Very best regards

[WantMore]

You could always use some force.

Example; Heres the deal. If you want to play with anyone outside of our relationship it will be honesty based. That means if I ask a question, I expect an honest answer. That also means you will always defend us as a couple anytime you are away from me. You dont need authorization from me to chat, date and fuck. You do need to be open to honoring me with the truth as your chatting, dating and getting ready to go fuck.

At anytime your go behind my back, chat, date or fuck without telling me I will consider this cheating or using motives against me. That will only take us backwards not forwards.

Since you enjoy dating so much, its only fair you do it with honor and fairness to your hubby. Its my extension of my love for you to give you the gift of others. I only expect love and honor in return like anyone would.

Ive used these exact words but I was more elaborate. Just giving you the drift of some of the things Ive done over the years.

[WantMore]

I know there are couples whove dived into hotwifing before doing MFMs. Ive often useen posts such as this one from couples who just dived in before including the hubby in the room for a while. Its been my observation that couples who dont go thru the MFM stage are more vulnerable to the wife taking all of the control from the hubby at some point.

Itd be an interesting question for cuckolds if the majority of their wives didnt allow them to be there for a while when they started. I see posts from guys stating that their wives will only go out and hotwife if only they do it solo.

I feel that to have a healthy hw relationship you must start out with hubby in the room, either watching or participating to begin things. Once things are comfortable then flying solo seems to be better handled by hubbys.

It seems some woman who require solo dating from the start are independant and controlling. Thats fine if you wish to be cuckolded. But if you wish to feel like a couple exploring the lifestyle together, she must include you in the room from time to time if the hubby would prefer that.

It seems to me that women who include there hubbys in the room, either from the start or from time to time are more caring, honest and stay on defense of her marriage.

[WantMore]

And if she is not open to being truthful and honest or feeling like she cant be truthful and honest, there is no way in hell you can be successful in hotwifing, cuckolding for most or poly lifestyles. If she feels like an alcoholic trying to go sober then most likely she has lied to you from the start. In truth you may not know her as well as you think. Like how would you know if shes a chronic liar? Most times you dont.

When you posted this today about her feelings of feeling like an alcoholic I felt like you got a big battle ahead.

Did she actually tell you she felt like an alcoholic about lying? If so your in trouble pal!

[Samanthasman]

Question: you get boatloads of advice, action plans, shoulders to cry on (of varying quality) here on this forum. Who is Sam's sounding board as she "processes" the goings on…anyone getting a peek behind her curtain? Anyone she trusts to give her a (different) datapoint on the lying & 75% vs. 100% thing?

She has absolutely nobody!

I'm her best friend, but not a useful 3rd in this situation. She's very close to her mom, but probably would not discuss this wit mom (although it is possible).

She's never really had girlfriends. Has many business friends, but would not talk about this to them.

I've tried and tried to get her on here. I think she'd get a lot out of it.

No luck, but she is now reading all of this, and getting some perspective from that.

It is surreal reading and writing about out lives in real time. Hopefully this will be a useful thread for others as well...

[Samanthasman]

And if she is not open to being truthful and honest or feeling like she cant be truthful and honest, there is no way in hell you can be successful in hotwifing, cuckolding for most or poly lifestyles. If she feels like an alcoholic trying to go sober then most likely she has lied to you from the start. In truth you may not know her as well as you think. Like how would you know if shes a chronic liar? Most times you dont.

When you posted this today about her feelings of feeling like an alcoholic I felt like you got a big battle ahead.

Did she actually tell you she felt like an alcoholic about lying? If so your in trouble pal!

Could you post a little less often on this thread. I do appreciate your input, but if like a bit more variety.

[WantMore]

These are all thoughts I had throught the day. I was busy today and didnt have time to post.

Everything I said is fair good stuff.

You tend not to answer questions.

Has she lied to you before? Thats pretty important for everyone to know.

[WantMore]

Could you post a little less often on this thread. I do appreciate your input, but if like a bit more variety.

You could post a little less often too. You know, especially when giving advice to others while clearly you are having some big challenges.

You opened yourself up to that and your latest response is a perfect example of why so many firmly believe you are not heeding much of the very sound advice provided to you.

I dont need advice. I have an awesome life! Ive brought a good context of thoughts here. My views are different than many, that can be seen clearly enough.

Knowone has a 100% answer here. When everyone is telling the guy its over and done, Im one of the few who will argue with that.

[HowardRoarke]

You opened yourself up to that and your latest response is a perfect example of why so many firmly believe you are not heeding much of the very sound advice provided to you.

I dont need advice. I have an awesome life! Ive brought a good context of thoughts here. My views are different than many, that can be seen clearly enough.

Knowone has a 100% answer here. When everyone is telling the guy its over and done, Im one of the few who will argue with that.

Seemed to me from the context of his statement that he was talking to Sman, not you.

Best-

HR

[Mia]

First of all: from an Admin standpoint, there are some characterizations about the OP on this thread from a variety of posters that skirt dangerously close to name-calling, which as we all know is a violation of "The Rules," so you are all being put on notice to watch what you post. (The reason why I read this thread tonight is that it has been reported on, for possible violation of "The Rules" by some posters.)

Second: From my standpoint, this just seems like another example of one of the most common scenarios in polyamory: Couple decides to open/is open in their marriage....couple makes rules....the rules agreed on do not fit the evolving new relationship...couple revisits rules to change them to conform to the new circumstances and feelings with particular attention paid to the existing committed relationship(s).

This kind of thing happens every day among poly (and non-monogamous) people. Human feelings (especially developing human feelings) do not always accord with prior agreed-upon rules....so when this happens, those involved communicate with each other to the extent called for by the situation at hand...new rules/guidelines are developed to protect everyone involved...and life goes on, at a new level or in a new way.

There is no reason I can see why those involved cannot--if they want to, which they also may well NOT want to--change the rules to fit the current realities. There are obviously extremely NON-poly elements in this (the dishonesty, first and foremost), but I don't see any particular reason for the doom and gloom posts. Although the doom and gloom forecasts might be spot on....they might also be very wide of the on-the-ground realities of this situation. From what I read here, there isn't enough information to make a substantive prediction.

Mostly, everyone: couch your words in ways that indicate possibilities, not certainties.

No one knows what is REALLY going on in this situation other than the four people directly involved.

[Samanthasman]

First of all: from an Admin standpoint, there are some characterizations about the OP on this thread from a variety of posters that skirt dangerously close to name-calling, which as we all know is a violation of "The Rules," so you are all being put on notice to watch what you post. (The reason why I read this thread tonight is that it has been reported on, for possible violation of "The Rules" by some posters.)

Second: From my standpoint, this just seems like another example of one of the most common scenarios in polyamory: Couple decides to open/is open in their marriage....couple makes rules....the rules agreed on do not fit the evolving new relationship...couple revisits rules to change them to conform to the new circumstances and feelings with particular attention paid to the existing committed relationship(s).

This kind of thing happens every day among poly (and non-monogamous) people. Human feelings (especially developing human feelings) do not always accord with prior agreed-upon rules....so when this happens, those involved communicate with each other to the extent called for by the situation at hand...new rules/guidelines are developed to protect everyone involved...and life goes on, at a new level or in a new way.

There is no reason I can see why those involved cannot--if they want to, which they also may well NOT want to--change the rules to fit the current realities. There are obviously extremely NON-poly elements in this (the dishonesty, first and foremost), but I don't see any particular reason for the doom and gloom posts. Although the doom and gloom forecasts might be spot on....they might also be very wide of the on-the-ground realities of this situation. From what I read here, there isn't enough information to make a substantive prediction.

Mostly, everyone: couch your words in ways that indicate possibilities, not certainties.

No one knows what is REALLY going on in this situation other than the four people directly involved.

I will say that I have tried to give an honest assessment of our situation. This is for my benefit, and I sincerely hope others learn here as well. I really am being brutally honest and out there because otherwise this would just be poor fiction and the advice would be useless.

My wife, Samantha, is also reading along at this point. I've asked her repeatedly if she feels this is accurate, and she agrees it is. She has some additional or different perspectives, and may post these when she is ready, although she is turned off by some of this tone and is not sure she wants to participate unfortunatly.

I think there has been excellent advice given here, especially by some of the seasoned members of the forum. Some other advice has been silly or just off the mark. We all miss the mark occasionally. I've learned to filter, which is necessary. I continue to be baffled that people are offended when they give advice and I don't jump to implement immediately. My style is more to accumulate advice, filter some, use the balance to influence the wheel of the ship to the right or left.

My wife and I talk and even laugh a lot about where we are. Yes, at times the discussions are tough and decisions are hard, but neither of us has felt like anyone is looking for a divorce or separation or anything like that. Repeated dire warnings of imminent divorce feel strange. My wife reads these comments and says "we're great, right!??", and I reply "of course!" And then we read another comment and just shake are heads...

I think it's accurate to say that we jumped in at the beginning of the year. We had a set of rules (from this forum). Some rules were bent or broken. One rule was that if either party is uncomfortable, it ends, and ultimately that's what happened to Bill.

Of course ending a relationship is hard and causes grief. We are dealing with the grief and trying to design a set of rules to move forward and accommodate our evolved situation. Options include quitting HWing or negotiating acceptable boundaries and compromises.

[Samanthasman]

What model are we?

As we define our "new rules", we are searching for boundaries and compromises that make everyone happy. We both see, for example, a combination of cuck and HW Hubby in me and a combination of HW and Poly in her. Now we are trying to define what we are together going forward.

[MrsTruckstar]

This is not an impasse, it is actually a decision point. Do you go Ahead with your plan what is your plan? Her plan is the most robust at the moment, it ensures everybody is happy. At least a little happy.

Your plan leaves you happy, kind of, her unhappy and Bill unsatisfied.

So based upon your current post and the things you said to me in a private message, my advice would be if you're not going to take counselling then bite the bullet and choose Sam's option.

Sam; I believe you are reading this, you may be surprised on this advice. I read everything I don't always comment. Some of the comments I write test the resolve of the OP however in this situation I think he has tried everything, doesn't really believe his own point of view, plan, or fully understand your situation. I think you would benefit from being a member here.

I wish you both the very best for the future. I wish you all three very best for the future. Ha ha.

Bottom line give it a go on Sam's plan
X

[WantMore]

You opened yourself up to that and your latest response is a perfect example of why so many firmly believe you are not heeding much of the very sound advice provided to you.

I dont need advice. I have an awesome life! Ive brought a good context of thoughts here. My views are different than many, that can be seen clearly enough.

Knowone has a 100% answer here. When everyone is telling the guy its over and done, Im one of the few who will argue with that.

Seemed to me from the context of his statement that he was talking to Sman, not you.

Best-

HR

Exactly.

In my best Carly Simon voice..."You think this post is about you....you're so vain...."

Lol man your right! I was so tired all I was qualified to do was post, not reapond. Had gotten up at 2 am to prepare for meetings. I shoold have went to sleep by 8 but by the time I was done for the day it was 10pm. I wanted to write my thoughts before I forgot.

Anyway sorry! Not vain, just too tired and stupid to respond. Had the brain of a bowl of jello!

Mrs. T your right. He needs to jump into that!

[john jasson]

Don't agree with Mrs. T on lots of things over the years but she called this right. You have to give it a go if you want to go forward with the marriage. I honestly don't see how you would be any worse off than you are right now, particularly since you want her to be fucking him anyway. However, you HAVE to be strong and confident in yourself because the way I read it, Sam is attracted to strong confident men and wimping around in insecurity is the best way to turn her off you. Be the man she fell in love with - always.

[tellmeall]

Mrs. T seems to have given the best advice yet. All the best in the decision that you make or the actions you take.

I have often thought this lifestyle is like heroin, it can be so addictive and feel so good but can kill you too.

[Mojo123]

So I'm confused…Sam's admitted "plan" includes her inability to be completely honest - and this is (now) judged to be a good and/or permissible thing?!

I still think this is a HUGE red flag that calls into question the fundamental underpinnings of the foundational binary relationship…

[upforit74]

Reading this thread initially was a bit like watching a car accident in slow mo; but then it turned into one of those times when everyone slows down because there is an accident by the side of the road but when you get close there isn't that much damage - just two wally's that can't drive.

I think the issue here is that SM, you are turning Sam off. Why? (and without any disrespect intended) you're needy, you're indecisive and you don't stack up against Bill - which is why she fell in love with him. The very fact that you have invited her to read all your innermost thoughts on this thread while she has told you little of hers shows that she wears the pants in your household. She is probably quite sick of wearing the pants and wants a man who is a little more, um, manly. On the other hand she is torn because she doesn't want to lose her family and sense of security on a gamble with Bill (who after all is married).

I have a recommendation for you. Read 'No more Mr. Nice guy'. I think it could help you in the long term.

The fact that Sam even reads this means that she is at least partly interested in you (unless she feels guilty and wants to know you're ok - unlikely but possible) So she probably wont leave....Unless Bill leaves his wife, then its over mate.

If you ever consider HW'ing with her or someone else again I would chose someone who you would trust 200% You'll know if you have someone like that and you won't even have to ask her.

[Artimas]

Amen daddydom.

[Samanthasman]

Uugghh... More "get ready for divorce" stuff... If the thread pisses you off to the point that you feel the need to go there, then just tune out...


OK.. where we are...

Samantha wants 100% of what she wants (an unbounded ability to date), or nothing (quit HWing)...

My suggestion/plan is compromise - be happy with 75% of what you want.

I cannot live with 100%, and I don't want 0%
She thinks she can live with 75%, but is not yet ready to commit to that yet...

Because we have not decided, we are at this impasse

[agawim]

Hi SM,

Probably it will save you alot of time and grief if you go along with Samantha on this. You could perhaps say that you will give it a try and in three months for example you will review how things are working out and if this is what you both want.

I think that this kind of lifestyle needs to be open to adjustments all the time, you need to communicate alot with eachother, rules/bounderies are subject to change as time passes.

Good luck!

[a_unique_being]

Hey SM,

This is quite the impasse.

This might be a dumb question but if you guys agree with her plan would she be able to see Bill with out any sort of boundaries?

Is she wanting more of a poly arraignment where you are the primary partner but not exactly the primary lover? As in she would get her sexual satisfaction from her BFs as well as developing emotional bonds as a true boyfriend / girlfriend relationship ( in this case with Bill) but you would be the primary partner? Would you be up for this arraignment?

What is your take on a poly arraignment?

Continue to update us on how this works out for you. Don't be discouraged.

Good luck