Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

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TriangleTangle
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Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:42 pm

I am going to warn you up front this is a going to be a lengthy post - so escape out now while you can! It began as a response to the forum question "Why would a guy want his wife to sleep with another man?" in the HotWife forum and I simply got carried away and turned into an article. I will also begin with a disclaimer that like every other post in this forum, this article consists of personal opinions I have formed on the subject and you may respectfully disagree with all or part of what I about to share. I do not want, and I refuse to be baited into flame wars. Your opinions and views are just as valid as mine and may differ extensively, but my intent is to get below the typical response and offer what I believe is deeper insight into the root of the question with which so many struggle and seek a more fundamental answer. With that disclaimer I encourage your thoughts, feedback, intelligent, and respectful discourse on the subject. My personal opinions and perspective are my own based on fair number of years of first-hand experience and extensive reading in what I’ll simply call the lifestyle with its many varied kinks and flavors. I've tried everything from couple swapping to BDSM, Cuckolding, and Hotwifing (both as the male partner and as a Bull) to polyamorous relationships and a variety of fetishes too extensive to list. I have formed, lost, and created new lifestyle relationships over the years and learned many valuable lessons in the process about myself and others. My intent is to provide something a few of you might find useful to share with a partner to whom you are trying to explain or clarify a few aspects of Hotwifing and why you want to try it or expand your experiences or simply provide you with additional fodder to help you decide why you enjoy this lifestyle or why you might to try it. I don't pretend to be an expert or credentialed authority on the subject, but I do have a fair amount of education in the area of human behavior, psychology, and communications which help inform me a little (and just enough to make me dangerous!), but I can at least say that I am an experienced practitioner for a fair number of years. We are all learning – so why not learn from the best source possible? Each other!

I have also provided a bonus condensed compendium of reasons why a man would want his wife to sleep with another man as sourced from the main forum discussion at the end of this article. I took the liberty of reading every post in the referenced discussion thread and netted out all of the reasons that posters provided to the question, Why would a guy want his wife to sleep with another man? and netted them out all into a single consolidated list. In many instances I paraphrased the reasons and lifted them out of their sometimes lengthy contexts, so you'll just have to go read every last post in that forum if you prefer to read the original text along with their contexts. It was just really interesting to see the entire list condensed and I hope you enjoy it.


For myself and for many that can't articulate 'Why would a guy want his wife to sleep with another man?', it often comes down to one word. Compersion.

That one word deserves an entire book to fully explain and explore. I’ve read dozens of books and articles on the lifestyle and I’ve found only one book that provided a whole a chapter devoted to the subject. That book is Opening Up by Tristan Taormino, a terrific read with another key chapter dedicated to the subject of jealousy. If you read that book those are the two must read chapters. Another must read is The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy. Even as good as these books are, I have yet to find a entire book dedicated to the subject of what this forum and most of us term Hotwifing. Another few disclaimers before I continue: I have no association with the authors or promoters of these or any other books or websites I might mention. I am like you, a practitioner of the lifestyle with a lifelong desire to grow and understand my own evolving sexuality through constant introspection as well as learning from the experience and wisdom of other experienced practitioners. Some of you might say I am over thinking things, but I enjoy delving into such matters and no one is forcing you do to so. If you are of that mindset I respectfully suggest that you stop reading this post at this point as I’d not like to frustrate and pain you any further.

[Begin Soapbox]
In my opinion, neither the term HotWifing nor Cuckolding are adequate verbs for the core of what this is all about. Both of these terms are basically limited nouns often twisted uncomfortably into even more awkward non-descriptive verbs. It would be the same as using the term CARing to describe what it is like to drive an automobile, which we all understand as driving which involves a car but more important, describes the experience where the car itself is only a single element of a much broader experience. What we are discussing here is an experience, not a thing. In my opinion, Compersion is at core of that experience to which we either aspire or practice. I will admit that also remain at a loss of an adequate good verb - even now. Thus, after this entire tirade I am resigned to continue using the most common verb, Hotwifing, until some genius coins something new and brilliant.
[End soapbox]

What most here are attempting to do in related discussion thread is to define the many and varied attributes of the activities that lead to Compersion. As I said, HotWife and Hotwifing are limiting terms in themselves. This isn’t just about the wife, it’s about the couple. And if you are really enlightened sexually then who is to say a same sex couple or a polyamorous group can’t experience the very same? In my opinion and after long and deep deliberation, HotWife and Cuckold simply do not do justice to the partners nor the practice. In fact, each often shares attributes of the other, proving that both descriptors fall woefully short. Thus, too many people are left in a quandary simply trying to explain it to a wife or partner for the first time or differentiate between these two distinctly different lifestyles as I had for a long time. Think about it, how many men or woman in a relationship have ever approached their partner out of the blue and blurted out “Honey, I’d like us to try Hotwifing!” Maybe some have, and if he or she doesn’t look at you crooked from the start well, you get my point. Nor would most of us in the Hotwife forum want to say, “Honey, I would like to try cuckolding”, because as many of you know or are learning that the emphasis of the two are fundamentally different even though they have a some overlapping attributes. It does however make more sense to say to the love of your life, “Honey, I’d like to experience Compersion with you” and go on to define what a truly unique and amazing shared experience Compersion is - an experience like no other.

Let’s get back to the original question at hand: Why would a guy want his wife to sleep with another man? The best and more concise answer isn’t simply because it’s fun. So far however, that has been about the best and most concise short answer proffered in 18 pages of terrific posts to the original forum question, but it also falls woefully short and inadequate in its generalization. Try telling your wife want her to fuck other men simply because it’s fun and see how far you get! Heck, lots of things are fun. Taking a trip is fun, bumper cars are fun, and boating or skiing are all fun. So go do those activities if you want fun. Of course what we’re all doing here is fun, but that is simply another general descriptor. So what is the single best answer? It is more concise and simpler than that: Most men wants his wife to sleep with other men to achieve Compersion. .

You see, real Compersion cannot be achieved alone or with just anybody. It necessarily requires your primary dedicated partner - the one with whom you are in love. And while we’re at it, it is not necessarily limited to a wife sleeping with other men. I expect there exists a very small minority of woman that are capable of and do experience the very same, so the question could be or made gender neutral so as to not be so sexist from the very get-go. After all, we’re really talking about true sexual equality here, are we not? I will offer an explanation and theory near the conclusion of this post why the predominant practice is what it is and why there are few women in this lifestyle that want their men to be with any other female partners and why men generally prefer to remain monogamous.

So let’s get down to some specifics. What is Compersion? Books like Opening Up do a far better job than I can, but here is my best shot: Compersion is experiencing pleasure vicariously through your partner by turning jealousy on it head. It requires one to recognize, master, and actively manage the attributes of jealousy to such a degree as to turn it into a higher level of erotic energy and state of being unique unto itself. Compersion is a metaphysical state of being.

Notice that I didn’t say ‘get over’ or unlearn jealousy. Jealousy is an essential and critical set of emotions that provide the fuel for Compersion. Getting ‘over’ or ‘past’ jealousy would be like saying if you don’t like some foods, permanently numb all the nerves in your mouth. Tarmoino does a good job breaking down jealousy itself into its discrete components that include fear, insecurity, envy, competitiveness, inadequacy, possessiveness, fear of abandonment, feeling unloved and feeling left out. I’d like to add my own to the list that include self-doubt, self-worth, and self-esteem in there as well. I am in agreement with the author that jealousy is too broad a term and means different things to different people without specifics. Jealousy manifests itself in different ways and we need to use it as a warning light or a guidepost to alert us so that we can use it effectively. I personally have come to realize that it is really a tool and a skill that needs to be learned, managed, mastered but not overcome.

A good question is, does the woman experience Compersion? My mate says she does, but hers is the vicarious pleasure she gets from the pleasure I am getting from hers. We feed off each other, the more she enjoys the more I do and the more she does and on and on. I would like to hear more examples about aspects of Compersion enjoyed by women from women themselves.

There are also a few fundamental requirements to be successful at achieving true Compersion. The most important one being empathy - a whole boatload of it. You cannot, I repeat, cannot experience anything vicariously without being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes, and for many men in this practice this figuratively means putting yourself in your wife’s stilettos in both the emotional and physical aspects of her very being. No, that doesn’t make you gay, not by a long shot, but it does make you one with your partner and makes a shared experience possible. Because that is what this is all about, a shared experience, otherwise you could just get your jollies through generic porn or watching strangers fuck which you already know doesn’t create the same excitement and rush. No, this is about experiencing something amazing with, and more importantly, through the wonderful partner whom you are committed and who you love with every ounce of your being.

There are also some fundamental prerequisites for successful experience of this lifestyle. The first of these is growing and strengthening one’s own self-security followed by growing and strengthening the security of the relationship itself. The secret to achieving the latter is unbreakable trust, total honestly, and complete loyalty to the emotional primacy of the relationship. That does not mean the lady doesn't become emotionally involves with her partners, but you are number one. By the way, if she and you decide she can take on additional number ones then you've become polyamorous. Also, be careful not to confuse loyalty with monogamy as the two are vastly different.

As many have pointed out, it takes a couple that are open to new ideas and experiences and able to break the bonds of cultural and conventional mores that society has foisted upon us and into which most of us have been passively indoctrinated. I could have said brainwashed as a stronger term than indoctrinated but I don’t think we need to be reprogrammed to break away and think for ourselves as free individuals. All we need is a little courage.

And gentlemen, let’s not be intellectually dishonest and excessively altruistic about all of this. I am going to call a spade a spade that I haven’t seen called often. This lifestyle involves the recognition and admission of both selfish desire and the ability to be completely and utterly selfless - simultaneously. The two can and must coexist. Both are core motivators and both must be present and genuine else you are just whoring out your wife. On one hand (excuse the pun), we seek self pleasure as the driving force, else why do it at all? On the other hand, if you are going to truly experience real Compersion you have to want to please your partner with every ounce of your being but also admit your own selfish desire in the process. As my partner read down the condensed list I compiled at the end of this article she was struck by the very same thing I was when viewing the list in its entirety - that most of the answer comes across as being about only the woman's pleasure. We know that not to be case. She got it when I explained that is actually is about the woman for most men, it is about our focus on our women and not simply gratuitous pleasure. But let's get real, if you men are not getting off and admitting that's the number one reason why you enjoy this, then I'll assume you'll also have no objection to being castrated.

Men, here are two ultimate tests for you. Assume you are a lucky bastard like I’ve been and your wife, girlfriend, fiancée, or primary mate fucks other men and you get extreme pleasure from it. Can you honestly and immediately cease the activities without argument or self pity if she says she never wants to do it again and be totally happy and content for the rest of your life? And an even tougher test, are you ready to let her go if she says she doesn’t want to continue the relationship with you, even if you’ve been married for many years, kids, house, the whole shebang just to see her happy? If not, you lack the selflessness required to be successful in this endeavor. Yes, it is a real risk, trust me, I know from harsh experience but as some others pointed out earlier, who would want a slave for a spouse? OK, some do but we’ll not go there as that is another kink and lifestyle entirely.

What are the reasons people do it? Some here have done a very good job at describing the many and varied reasons. The compendium at the end of this article lists a slew of them. There isn’t a fixed set and like food we are free to choose among many ingredients and combine them and cook them into an endless array of flavors that satisfy the palette. I can list, for myself, a few the ingredients that are in my kitchen; my cupboard contains many more than these.

A Few Reasons Why
  • Experiencing my partner’s pleasure and experience vicariously as if my own. It is about as close to being physically inside her body mentally and physically – a true metaphysical experience and the ultimate sexual and emotional form of Compersion.
  • Feeling the pangs of jealousy in all of its specific variants and transforming them into titillating erotic emotions and feelings.
  • Enjoying the sweet torture of denial. Denial is on a highly variable continuum. Just your wife having sex with another while you watch or wait is by itself is a subtle form of denial. The continuum of denial stretches all the way from very mild to the extreme and crosses into the dominant/submissive realm of cuckoldry. I like to think of it as extreme and extended foreplay: the pleasure derived from the journey is every bit as sweet as the destination and makes the experience a lasting one both during and after for both of you.
  • Experiencing the thrill of competition as well as the real and perceived high stakes of losing. Some here have rightfully referenced the biological foundations of human reproduction and sperm competition. A good book I’d recommend related to that is Sex At Dawn – How We Mate, Why We Stray and What It Means For Modern Relationships by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha – riveting and enlightening to say the least.
  • Watching your wife sexually bloom and become the free and independent sexual being she deserves and wants to be - and that you also want her to be. What man doesn’t want his wife to be a nymphomaniac? Most do. What is that old adage? Men want a good girl by day and slut in bed? The challenge is helping her get over the cultural indoctrination and programming that she has endured her entire life. It is truly ironic in our culture that promiscuous men are held up in esteem as ‘studs’ while a women who enjoy sex are derided as immoral whores to be shamed. Earlier I mentioned the book The Ethical Slut – it’s a must read for both men and woman open to exploring sexuality. My favorite passage in that book is when the authors describe how a ring on a finger isn't some magical chastity device that turns off our sexual attraction to others.
  • Give her a better, different or broaden her sexual experience. What? You really think you are some sexual savant and best she’s ever had or could ever have? Keep dreaming. You might be able to play football but it is highly unlikely you are good enough to play pro ball, let alone be a true pro at balling your wife. But that’s not the point or the goal. We invite the competition because it is exciting and, when she says her other stud is amazing and hits places you never hit and gives her orgasms you never have, go with it and enjoy the ride. You might even learn a thing or two about how to improve your own skills and please your wife better. In some cases her other lover(s) may in fact give her greater satisfaction but in many cases she is just enjoying the shiny and new, the different, the taboo nature of it all, the attention, the chase or all of the above and more.
  • Enjoy your own personal porn star. It is true that there is no porn that can ever compare to watching your mate in action. After all, she is your sexual goddess and the sexiest and most beautiful woman on the face of the earth. I cringe at this a little in that I see porn as a bit more objectification than experiencing it with your wife who is your lover, your best friend, your confidant and partner in crime, but still, it’s a fair analogy from the man’s perspective. Women, think of it this way: What would you prefer – having your man secretly jack off to some generic porn or jacking off to you?

A Few Favorite Games of Ours

Here are a few games my partner and I enjoy.

  • Pillow Talk: This is where many couples start and stay their journey. It can often be the ice breaker where the notion of the wife having sex with other men becomes socialized and acceptable - at least in the mind and is the least threatening. For many couples, fantasizing is where it might stop for any number of reasons. Nevertheless, this can be quite enjoyable and satisfying for many and become quite explicit and intense in nature. I have to admit I was apprehensive at first about really doing the deed after so many that never tried it themselves warned that acting out such fantasies could never live up to the fantasy, but they were dead wrong and blowing words out their asses to put it bluntly. Nothing can compare to the actual experience. Nothing. And yes ladies and gentlemen, the real thing blows away anything you can possibly imagine or fantasize if you are well prepared and mutually willing.
  • Shall we dance? This is a pretty safe way to advance and grow in this lifestyle. Take your girl to a generic dance club, ideally with people in your own age range and part ways from time to time. Let other men ask her to dance as she stands by the edge of the dance floor by herself and encourage her to do so. She doesn’t even have to take off her ring. Trust me, that won’t stop many men and will even encourage as many as it might deter. That allows you to step in afterwards and be with her after as the legitimate primary partner without apology or whenever you begin to feel uncomfortable.

    A terrific and more advanced variation is to find a local swingers club and attend a couples dance they many of them sponsor. Yes, many of these couples are swingers, but there is little if any explicit sexual activity or overt advances that occur at the social swingers lifestyle dances, many of which are held in private hotel ballrooms. A great site to checkout to find these is SwingLifestyle. In these environments couples meet and are perfectly fine flirting with each others partners, but people remain respectful of boundaries. In fact, only a percentage of couples actually full swap. For many, simply attending and watching others and flirting is exciting enough. Beyond that there are as many variations in between these two extremes as there are couples. In this setting it’s a lot safer to watch your wife flirt and dance with other men than in a vanilla (non-lifestyle) club. You can watch her from nearby in the open and drink it in. And there is absolutely no obligation for the man to couple up with the other woman or even dance or flirt with her. The dancing, flirting and provocative dress at these events is often burning hot and there is no worry that it has to go any further than the dance floor and no clothing need to come off nor any sex involved, but she can experience being pursued safely and you can enjoy the ride. This is not a ploy for the man to fuck other women and get into swinging. Some might want to take it further if both want to, but my partner and I found this a great way to have fun without obligation and in fact met one of her very hot male partners at one of these events who happened to be there with a partner but was actually single.
  • Strangers when we meet: I love this game. You both go to a pub or nightclub, but separately. You don’t go in at the same time, she doesn’t wear a ring, and you don’t sit together or give any indication or clue that the two of you are together or even know each other. We prefer to do this in a city outside of where we live to avoid running into people we might know. It doesn’t have to be far away, maybe just an hour or two, but enough. It is an amazing turn on to watch your sexy wife approached by other men and even more fun to watch her flirt and enjoy herself while the other men pursue her. This a great test to see just how much control the male partner has over his jealousy. If he can resist muscling in and trying to win her from her unsuspecting suitors you are on your way. If you can stand her leaving with one of them even better, even if no sex is involved. If you can go further and can stand her leaving and fucking the guy without you following them, well, you are beyond of most men in this lifestyle. One of the things I’ve done is give her an anklet with a tiny lock and key they she wears on her right ankle. That is the telltale sign of a Hotwife for the men that are aware of it. For vanilla people its just a cute ankle bracelet.
  • Do we match? This is where you begin to seriously consider finding other potential male playmates. Browsing profiles on adult dating sites is one way to approach it. There are many such adult dating web sites including SwingLifestlye and AdultFriendfinder to name two of the larger and more popular ones. Simply browsing profiles together is a fun experience on its own and might stop there as part of the fantasy. You begin to learn what type of men turn her on and why.


What really turns on many women (and this comes from my better half) is the attentiveness of the other male, how he treats her and how he performs, irrespective of the size of his cock. The experience of reliving her first date(s) combined with someone other than you telling her that she is sexy and beautiful and showing her does wonders and you get the full benefits as a result. You might actually be surprised to learn that getting a 9” or 10” dick in her pussy is what you want her to get. Actually, she may not care as much about size as you do. My lady enjoys well endowed gentlemen that are at least as large as me or somewhat larger, but it’s the gentleman aspect that gets her juices flowing. I discovered that her big turn on was a well educated, slightly younger well hung black gentleman with style and class who enjoys smooth jazz, is well spoken, and most of all, is well dressed with the ability to flirt. Who knew? And a larger cock wasn't what her attraction is all about. For her it's more about the still-somewhat taboo nature of interracial relationships and she also thinks many of us older white dudes just don't have as much style and panache. And I see her point because even though I have a lot to offer a woman in one department, I still dance like a white boy if you know what I mean.

Scanning the adult sites is a great way to screen potential partners and if you get really gutsy, exchange some emails through the service and even start chatting with a few through instant messaging. If it progresses further to meeting for a drink to see if there is chemistry, then you are on your way. My partner and I will not meet new partners apart as we are a couple first and want any other partners to respect the sanctity of our relationship first and foremost. Both of us have the right to reject a candidate, but approval rights vary by couple based on the rules they establish. We generally tell potential male partners that the first meet will be only drinks and not to expect sex. We reserve the right to make an offer to go somewhere private to play if we want and if the desire is mutual. More often if it is a match we’ll meet again on some other day for a drink and then all three go somewhere private to have an initial MFM. We are not into random meets though some are and neither is right or wrong. Each couple should make their own rules and not violate them. Rules can and do evolve over time as you grow which is fine as long as you define them together and here is the golden rule - stick to them, even when in doubt.
  • Let’s make it a date! Later, when we’re all comfortable she might meet him out alone and bring him home to play and it might even progress where she goes out on a date and plays without me on occasion. My partner and I prefer that progressive approach but others may choose different scenarios.
  • Instant Replay: Most husbands will tell you that sex with their wife is incredible after she has had sex with another man, whether you were present or not, and either immediately afterwards or for weeks, months, and even years after. My favorite time is after her stud makes his exit after he is totally spent and she and I get alone time. This is when we get to share the intimate details of what just happened. I especially love it when she gets extremely verbal and explicit - describing every detail of what just happened and every minute detail of what she felt and still feels. Many men like me enjoy the exchange of explicit language. It helps communicate and extend or achieve the metaphysical experience of Compersion and fully experience vicarious pleasure. It is the ultimate reward many of us seek.
  • Breed my wife, please! A fairly advanced game is wife breeding. No, it doesn’t mean she actually gets knocked up – there can be serious considerations and devastating consequences to that- tread carefully, but in its essence pregnancy, even the risk of pregnancy is a hugely symbolic act. It doesn’t have to involve backback or unprotected sex either. One game we play is she fucks her bull without me present and then tells me, convincingly, that he pumped several loads of sperm deep inside her pussy and has probably impregnated her. Even better, the game gets more intense if she proudly proclaims a few weeks later that she is pregnant by the other man, even if you know it factually not be the case or even possible. Let me tell you, nothing is more erotic or sexy than a pregnant woman. It is the ultimate symbol of fertility and female sexuality. If you are lucky enough where she cannot get pregnant, and you are careful about choosing partners the same as when you were single, then actually going bareback and seeing your wife take another man’s cum internally is beyond words. I think one poster early on in the referenced discussion thread did the most masterful job I’ve ever read describing what it is like to get sloppy seconds and what a mind blowing experience it is but stopped just short of the erotic pregnancy risk aspect of it.

    Please allow me to explain why this can be so erotic. Men in this lifestyle often crave their wives receiving creampies and getting sloppy seconds. They are accurate when explaining what an immense turn on it is to see a another man’s cock pulsing while spewing his baby-making seed deep into his wife, watching it seep out afterwards, and dive into it with his own cock. Why is that so erotic for the man? Surely if all he wanted was another man’s cum he could get that directly with another male. But no, he isn’t gay, far from it. The other man’s cum symbolizes the taking of the woman away from the primary partner and stokes his jealous fears of loss and potential abandonment. His desire to clean her out his competitor’s seed is paramount if he is to successfully reclaim her. It is said the penis itself is shaped and designed to push the semen of other men out of a woman. Taking it to the extreme, if her suitor impregnates her then he is denied that privilege and her growing belly is a constant reminder that she has been taken and is owned by the competition.
  • Honey, please clean me up!: This one crosses a bit over the line into more traditional cuckoldry but in and of itself does not make someone a full-fledged cuckold. It involves visible evidence of the other man’s cum in or on your wife. It doesn’t require that he male orally clean up his mate and her lovers juices, but for many in this lifestyle that is an extremely erotic experience and represents a number of things beyond submission. Cleanup is an advanced and deep discussion in itself, but in its simpler forms can simply involve watching your wife strut around with the other man’s cum on her body or even hotter, soaking right through her panties when she greets you. She can use that to create subtle forms of humiliation, such as use it to provoke the competitive aspects for you, or it can be taken further into the cuckold real clean up can become an even more intense form of humiliation and domination.

Dom da da Domme:

I’d be remiss if I didn’t discuss the issue of dominance and submission in the realm of Hotwifing. As I mentioned I have a bit of experience in BDSM as both a Dom and as a submissive under the ownership of a skilled and highly experienced Domme (which, by the way, I learned I truly sucked as a submissive but did it for the experience and insights. As I said earlier, empathy). This is a key area that separates hotwifing from cuckolding. With cuckolding there is a preponderance of couples where the female is clearly dominant. Feminine domination – or FemDom, is a key aspect. Humiliation and abuse is often sought by the male and is sometimes intense. Not only are larger percentage of males submissive in cuckold relationships, but there seems to be sizable subset of sissified males and extensive use of denial, including the use of male chastity devices. Not all males in a cuckold relationship are submissive however. A small and growing number of males claim to be the dominant partner (AlphaCucks), but again, are in the minority.

Hotwifing doesn’t prescribe specific dominant-submissive patterns by comparison. I feel that some amount of denial is typically present as is humiliation, but their use is often more subtle than in cuckolding. This is where I believe a great deal of confusion arises. For example, my partner is generally a sexually submissive while I am generally sexually dominant, but neither of us excessively so. When we play it is extremely important to me that she stoke my jealous emotions by provoking me. Speaking for myself, the stronger and more intense her provocation, the better it is. But at what degree when does her provocation switch her from a submissive role to a dominant one - or does it? I tend to agree with few others I have consulted that a woman doesn’t have to become the dominant partner to exercise such provocation, although the degree and intensity of it could create a switch condition where she becomes dominant temporarily to administer provocation and denial.

For example, she might insist I help her get dressed for her date and of course I’ll be motivated to do so. She might also provoke me by telling me I can’t fuck her until after he has. Or she might approach me out of the blue and provoke me by getting into my face and telling me she needs to feel his cock inside her pussy badly and can hardly wait for her next date to see him. She might wax on about how great he was and how his sperm is impregnating her. In these cases and countless others she gets aggressive, even extremely aggressive, but that doesn’t amount to her becoming the dominant in the relationship. In fact, I like her to provoke me to such an intense degree that I’ll turn the tables and let my own dominance surface to forcefully take her back. It can get downright hot if she doesn’t succumb immediately and resists with even more provocation and even a bit if belligerence - making me work harder to win and take her back. That doesn't typically occur in the practice of cuckolding.

As an aside and in my opinion, the subject of provocation in Hotwifing is the least covered subject in most of the articles and books I've read. It is covered better in the realm of cuckolding but for some reason it seems to receive the short end of the cock in Hotwifing. I think the the subject of Hotwifing provocation - which differs somewhat from full on female domination - deserves it own chapter or two if not an entire book of its own.

Where oh Where are the HotHusbands?

Yes, Hothusbands do exist, but they are virtually unicorns in present day practice. The few women I’ve encountered that enjoyed watching their husbands fuck other women and received a vicarious thrill from it were the ones I met in the couple swinging facet of the lifestyle – particularly among full swap couples.

While discussing this with my partner recently I came to the conclusion that the fundamental evolutionary differences between men and woman have a lot to do with it. Stay with me now and think millions of years ago during pre-agricultural times. Again, I strongly recommend the book Sex at Dawn from where I gained this perspective.

Men are built to be ‘always on’ and ready for when the female becomes ready to procreate, which is not constant. Whereas the male sperm competes with other male sperm to reach penetrate the egg, men are less concerned with the more fundamental needs of a woman. On the other hand, the fundamental needs of a woman are not solely sexual satisfaction but to become successfully inseminated, and here it is - to create security for themselves and their resulting offspring. Thus, women are historically programmed to gain and retain a provider/protector for her and her offspring and defend that security at all costs. To wit: I don’t know one woman that doesn’t put the welfare of her children above all else.

Now you can charge this view as being sexist as many of today’s modern women don't need a man but I am talking about historical norms and evolution dating back and eternity. I’d like to hear other views and theories on the subject, but absent that I’m comfortable with that basic theory. And that theory is perfectly consistent with the woman having multiple male partners and the man being monogamous with only one woman. In pre-agricultural times before it was the norm for women to have sex and be inseminated by multiple men – sometimes the entire tribe of men, to impregnate her. This was before the emergence of the agricultural age for millions of years after which agriculture introduced property ownership which changed the entire structure of civilization and transformed our species from our natural state as communal hunters and gatherers to a modern ownership society. I’d contend that women became far more protective and possessive in the post-agricultural era and that has been largely socialized ever since.

So what does that mean for the future? With each successive generation sexual mores are loosening and women (at least in Western cultures) are realizing growing equality. I can foresee a time in future generations where there are larger numbers of HotHusbands than exist today, but as it stands, that is not the norm outside of couple swinging or poly groups where the woman can be with her primary mate(s) and optionally enjoy other woman as well.

In Conclusion

If you’ve stayed with me this entire time then bless you. I hope I’ve added something of worth to the discourse. There are tomes I left out – it deserves far more dissertation than I have time but I think I got the basic parts out. If you think all or parts of this are , then you are entitled to your opinion and I'd enjoy hearing your views. I often play devil's advocate even with myself as I ponder these subjects. As I started out with the disclaimer, these are my personal views that will surely change and evolve even more over time and with each new experience.

Finally, if I have successfully maintained your attention, then you deserve to know why I titled the article The Cool Fire of Hotwifing. I call it the Cool Fire because we are burning, smoldering, molten lava flowing sexual creatures at our very core and are enlightened enough to recognize and proudly proclaim it. The cool is the courage and coolness we muster as we walk straight into the heart of that burning, churning pile of junk in search of shared ecstasy with the partner that we love, cherish and who accompanies us throughout this incredible journey.

I hope you and yours enjoy that journey and discover the joy of real Compersion.



A Condensed Compendium of Reasons

What follow is a condensed compendium of reasons why a man would want his wife to sleep with another man as sourced from the primary forum discussion I referenced at the beginning of this article. I took the liberty of paraphrasing a number of them to condense the list, so you'll need to go read the actual forum for full context as many have been deliberately taken out of their original context for brevity.


Reasons why men want their wife to have sex with others:

o Because it is fun
o Because I am I am voyeuristic in nature
o It makes my wife feel beautiful and sexy
o Because I want my wife to have the most fun and the most powerful orgasms she can have
o Because that is exactly what she wants to do
o I am not sure why
o I have given up on trying to really understand exactly why
o She comes back a new woman; I must fuck her again to call her mine and reclaim her
o Because she enjoys it
o Because it helps cure me of thinking possessively
o Because I enjoy viewing her as the free independent spirit that she truly is
o Because I like watching my wife have sex
o Because I want to see a larger cock in her
o Because I get a sexual high when she plays
o To get more sexual stimulation than the norm
o Because I get off on sloppy seconds
o Because I want her to experience as much variety and pleasure as possible
o Because she is too good to keep her for myself and I want to see others enjoying her
o I want her to enjoy sexual freedom
o It turns me on
o Because it’s all about her
o To see other men enjoy her womanly charms
o Because I am proud of her and want others to validate that
o Because it is exciting to tempt fate for excitement and adventure
o Because I want to push the envelope of the relationship and risk the ultimate sacrifice
o Because I want to bring out the sexy and confident woman in hiding
o Because her fucking other men turns me on like nothing else
o Because it flies in the face of conventional societal mores
o Because I like to see the crazy animal in her come out from her usually conservative self
o Because she makes the best live porn
o Because it makes the sex better between the two of us
o Because I like how she turns other men on and them knowing she is mine
o So I can lose her then win her back again and again
o I could never put my finger on it
o Because we men are whores
o Because men wish they had been born a women to get all the sex we want
o Because I want to see the cum of a stranger in her pussy
o Because I want to clean another man’s cum out of her pussy
o To get the psychological kick I am looking for even more than the physical pleasure
o Because we both love it
o Because I have some voyeuristic tendencies and she is an exhibitionist
o Because we trust each other
o Because I love seeing her enjoy herself and seeing others appreciate her
o Because she loves the way I feel so possessive, not jealous, afterwards
o Because I love seeing her enjoy herself and participating in her pleasure
o After all these years, I really still do not have any clue
o Because I wanted to share her beauty and deliciousness
o Because I enjoy fucking my wife’s cum-filled pussy
o Because it is forbidden and taboo
o Because it is a total turn on and it does a lot for her too
o Because I like to watch her fuck from another perspective and from a distance
o Because I want her to lose her inhibitions
o Because I get to see what I can’t see when I’m having sex with her
o Because it recaptures the spark and rekindles the fire between us
o Because we both enjoy seeing each other pleasuring and being pleasured as a shared experience
o Because it drives us mad
o Because I learn things about what she likes and doesn't like
o Because it makes us closer as a couple
o Because my dick is too small and I enjoy seeing her cum
o Because she has a much higher sex drive than I do and it fills her sexual needs
o Because I get rewarded with a hot wet pussy
o Because it makes me feel sexier and more of a man
o Because I enjoy the vicarious thrill out of her ability to enjoy her sexuality so fully
o Because I love the taste of a cream pie
o Because I love helping her prepare for the long hours of heavy fucking and sucking that will take place as soon as he enters our very private home
o Because I love the complete serenity that follows after all of us have share the most intimate pleasures, kinks and taboos that so many do not get to experience
o Because I get off watching her kiss another man
o Because he fucks me more frequently as a result
o Because I love sexually aggressive women
o Because it re energizes our love life, our sex life, our friendship, and adds passion
o Because I want her to enjoy the best sex possible (different styles, shapes, sizes)
o Because I want other men to envy me
o Because It adds another level or dimension of intimacy in our relationship
o Because it allows her to venture out
o Because I get off knowing she is getting off
o Because I love sluts
o Because I can’t keep up with her libido
o I know exactly why I do it. Addiction.
o Because it generates that rush of emotions and bodily chemicals that can only be induced by her giving another man attention
o Because I’ve become bored with vanilla sex
o Because there is nothing more erotic, taboo, and challenging as watching your wife act slutty for a moment
o Because it motivates me to bust my ass to keep her!
o Because when sex is wild we want more
o Knowing she loves being a slut....because in real life she isn’t, she is the honorable, loyal, committed loving wife
o Because she becomes everything you’ve ever fantasized about
o Because it boosts the ego for both of us
o Because we both get excited and turned on by it
o Because it brings me closer to my wife than I ever thought possible; it is like a Vulcan mind merge.
o Because it helps to settle male/male competition issues and creates a more cooperative erotic life
o Because I like not having to be in charge all the time, to give up control, to be in a sense dominated and still be loved and accepted by the one that we love the most. All without the guilt or judgment that would normally come with it.
o Because it allows to give one's love the freedom to be what they're not supposed to be, or so says society yet secretly want to be
o Because it enables one to be sexually alive and fully aware of ourselves with the safety and security of love's ultimate acceptance and understanding of one's needs and desires to be fulfilled and the craving satisfied.
o Because it allows a typical woman or wife to be or act like a slut without the negative ramifications that has always come with it.
o Because I enjoy the 100% visual aspect of it
o For her it is because she is a very sexual lady and enjoys sex
o Because it is so taboo and so sexy!
o Because I love eating pussy cream pies when another guy fills her up
o Because I brings me pleasure seeing my wife enjoying herself sexually, not giving a dam about society rules
o Because it brings the husband and wife closer together physically, emotionally and sexually
o Because she enjoys a big black cock once in a while and since that's what she wants and it doesn't have any bearing on our relationship
o Because I view my wife in a state of euphoria in a sexual climate. This not only enhances her pleasures but ours alike.
o Because you have no idea how sexy your wife is until another man is fucking her
o Because it makes our sex better/sexier somehow
o Because there is no sexual thrill like it for me.
o Because the best thrill of all is knowing my wife was coming home full of cum after screwing another man
o Because it keeps it completely hot and smok'in and growing as a couple
o Because I enjoy seeing excitement and enjoyment in her face and eyes. It’s like Christmas every time.
o Because I love my wife and feel the need to allow her to enjoy ultimate sexual fulfillment.
o Because I have an even deeper desire to have her after he is finished with her.
o Because there is nothing more satisfying to me than to see my wife orgasm while being made love to by her lovers and then being invited to add my sperm to theirs inside her.
o Because I don’t have to try to “please her” after she has just been fucked by another man. I can concentrate just on feeling good myself because she is trying to give me the best she can because she’s already had her orgasms. I can feel her love coming through in the way she moves her body.
o Because besides being healthy and great exercise, sex is what we live for as a species
o Because men enjoy the idea of their wives being attractive to other men. It validates their choice of that woman
o For me it is all about her pleasure
o My primary motivation is living all the "firsts" vicariously again through another guy
o Because I have a hard time giving my wife an orgasm
o Because I love having sex with her after another man has cum in her; there is nothing better than "sloppy seconds".
o Because I enjoy knowing that other men find my wife attractive
o Because I am intensely pleased that she is being pleased by another man
o Because afterwards the talk always seems to intensify our sex
o Because she will eventually tire of you and cheat. So why not give her Prince Charming and head it off at the pass and save each other the nasty break-up and divorce?
o Because I just love seeing my wife in sexual euphoria
o Because of how much more attractive she has become to other women and by default me as well - although I attribute that mostly to having to "fluff my plumage and feathers and beat my chest" more often to keep up with her.
o Because I enjoy the way she works out, glows, tans, trims, primps and stays date hot all the time.
o Because I just want to watch the expression on my wife’s face when she has a huge cock stretching her pussy
o Because watching the love of my life being passionately fucked by another man is the most beautiful and erotic thing I've ever seen in my life. The way her whole being responded to his touch and thrusts, the way she clung to him and tried to get every bit of him inside her and the look of complete surrender in her eyes was the most gorgeous thing I had ever witnessed.
o Because every time she goes out or her boyfriend comes over that craving begins and I can't wait to get my hands on her
o Because it is very stimulating to have that rush of emotions of desire, jealousy, fear, anger, humiliation, and other passions… This excitement conquers the boredom and routine that can enter into any long-term relationship.
o Because it increases a couple’s own pleasure and excitement.
o Because romantic love occurs during the chase of a potential partner, but passion declines when the sex object is obtained and secure. The hotwife or cuckold scenario starts the chase all over again.
o Because men become more aroused when the female partner also is aroused and when other men want her or have had her -- the "sperm wars" competition. This arousal can be further increased by adding other emotions to the mix.
o I enjoy the fact that she is driving another guy crazy, plus visualizing it or watching is the best porn you can get-starring your wife of course.
o Because she enjoys the chase, being desired by other men, and especially the seduction of younger men.
o Giving her the freedom to do something that's pleasurable for her but not usually socially accepted.
o Because of the groin-tingling thrill of it.
o Because if you're lucky enough to witness it. It is porn and your wife is the porn star! What ordinary porn could ever compare with that?
o Because of the excitement of the honesty and openness - she can tell you she prefers the way another guy fucks her, adores his cock, that her favorite lover is the best sex of her life. Wow! I personally think that's unbelievably hot.
o Because I enjoy her coming home and telling me all the juicy details
o Because it makes her horny and wet. Hell, even talking dirty on msn with one of her lovers gets her really wet. So, more sex and more exciting sex (due to new material for pillow talk) when she communicates or has sex with her lovers.
o Because the smell of his dried cum/sweat on her skin excites me sexually
o Because it excites me when she when she daydreams about sex with one of her lovers, and says she looks forward to getting thoroughly screwed by him as soon as possible
o Why the hell not?
o Because I feel it is a deeper need to make her feel happier because she worth it!
o Because it spices up your sexual life especially if you feel sexually inadequate to cover her needs
o Because it SUPERCHARGES a man’s own relationship with his wife. Fucking rocket fuel, I tell you
o Because knowing that she is lusty in this way makes my woman even more exciting to me. And knowing that she possesses the strength of will and free-spiritedness to act on such wants is irresistible.
o Because me giving her up to other men are all a part of learning to let go while keeping love and devotion intact; it fosters deeper appreciation and arousal for each of us.
o Because I tend to think of her fucking someone else as foreplay. If she is going alone, I have all these thoughts, fantasies, feelings and emotions running thru my head. I'll think to myself, is she there yet? Is she sucking him now? Is he fucking her now? Damn I wish she'd hurry home... Some call it angst; I think of it a sense of wonder. If we are together, I still get those feelings, but I am more visually in tune, I enjoy watching her, and I enjoy listening to her get pleasured. My senses are heightened.
o Because men love to adore women and women love to be adored. What could be more adorable than a woman who is adored by others and enjoys them adoring her?
o Because we only live once - why not have fun while we can?
o She loves telling me the play by play afterwards and loves how it turns me on and can't wait to come home after so she can be ‘punished’
o The Obvious: I get off on my pretty wife getting ravaged by another guy's big dick and seeing how much excitement and satisfaction it brings her.
o Because it pushes some psychological buttons that give me thrill unlike any other. It's like stroking an exposed nerve, which in this case is some kind of deep insecurity and related submissiveness.
o Because it is adventurous, perks us up and we both know she wants it once in a while.
o She gets a kick out of it and turns her on.
o Because it is a huge ego booster and motivates her self-care and exercise. It helps to settle male/male competition issues and creates a more cooperative erotic life. The whole mindset is something like a multidimensional vibrator.
o Because nothing is hotter than seeing her in ecstasy or savoring memories of the events while she describes them to me. I get to see her as a sexual being, a loving wife, and of course my lover as well.
o Because the thought of her... with him, dressed like a slut, begging for it, pleading with me to let her see him even as I twist in mishmash of jealousy, rage, and horniness.
o Because it’s a naughty dream that make me want her so much more each day
o Because I enjoy the bonding opportunities to both shop for the wife's clothing and accessories as well as physically helping prepare her for dates (dressing, makeup, shaving, advice on what's hot, etc.)
o Because it is hot entertainment when witnessing the wife being picked up on (pride in her attractiveness)
o Because it gives me goose bumps watching her smile and unwavering attention on someone other than yourself that she's attracted to.
o Because it releases her conservative, vanilla personality and watching it slowly bloom into a hot smoldering temptress.
o Because it rekindles the feeling of that "new" relationship, not only by rediscovering ourselves but also discovering her new fuck buddy.
o Because it allows her to re-entering the world of dating without the added pressure of finding the perfect mate. We are able to ignore the qualities normally looked for in a new relationship and focus on the more seductive, basic physical desires that often take a back seat in relationships.
o Because I enjoy watching her become more of a person for me to win back - someone in-demand by other men but who chooses to come back to me
o Because it provides an opportunity to renew her self-confidence by being told by multiple men that she is desirable (hubby's opinion means little as it's "expected" he will say those things).
o Because of the evidence it provides when other men are truly aroused and satisfied, receiving their cum - boosts her self-confidence.
o Because she suddenly taking an aggressive interest in improving her body and appearance as she dresses for other men, feeling sexy and desired
o Because it allows her to openly admit which men she finds attractive and the willingness to start initiating meetings herself
o Because I like the enjoyment from the role-play involved in acting like she is single again, being picked up on by guys at bars and the anticipation of new activities with new men
o Because it makes her feel young and alive again, like the world is new when being pursued with sexually satisfying results
o Because it grows her desire to explore the world, to get out of her box and escape some deep-seeded and emotional insecurities placed upon by others (and herself) over the years.
o Because I love lying in bed getting the details of a night out with a fuck buddy while she is sucking me. I love watching her make out with him, culminating with an orgasm while wrapped around his cock. It strengthens our bond while creating a lot of hot sex.
o Because seeing her enjoy sex without any attachment or attraction to her partner gave me a new vision of her when she becomes purely a sexual being.
o Because sharing her with other men to me, is like one more way to make love to her - to give her even more pleasure than I am capable of giving her by myself.
o Because I have pride in my wife's beauty, desirability and her sexual ability to give and receive so much pleasure. Like someone said, it is kind of like having the hottest, fastest, coolest car around; who the hell would want to hide that and not show off its performance to ah-struck, envious other guys. But that is just one of many factors.
o Because there is nothing hotter than to see the woman I love in the throes of passion and orgasm with one or more other men. Well, there is one more better thing - the sensuous and loving reconnection and the incredible sight, smell, feel and taste of my wife's freshly fucked, cum filled pussy. Even sound too, as the sloshing sounds, sighs, moans, screams and shared verbal pleasures and sounds as she fires off an incredible string of orgasms. The wild stimulation of all five senses, plus the love, wow!!
o Because the more my wife has sex with other men, the more sex she has with me.
o Because I get my thrills from seeing her suck and fuck him (your own porn up close), plus I get to experience the semi-submissive feelings of giving her to another man and yes (hopefully) I will get to experience the thrill of silky seconds.....but I also want very much for her to experience the release and freedom of opening up sexually with another guy where she feels safe...with him and me.
o Because it renews the entire relationship. I feel like I'm dating my wife all over again.
o Because jealousy, lust and excitement are all tied and her sleeping with other men really saved our marriage.
o I need to see the ‘action’, whereas hubby can get just as turned on imagining my goings on when I go off to a club.
o Because every man loves to see his wife as a slut.
o Because I enjoy the vicarious erotic thrill knowing that my wife and her lover are enjoying each other. The more pleasures and enjoyment they give each other serves to increase my vicarious pleasures.
o Because I want to keep her well-dicked and happy, to see that glow, and then to go crazy with her when it's your turn to `reclaim' her.
o Because my wife never looks sexier than when she's naked, staring right at me, moaning and cumming while another man has his dick buried deep in her pussy
o Because it brings out her naughty side
o Because some boys like to share their toys
o Because I enjoy how hot it makes her thinking and talking about it, seeing and feeling how hot her orgasms are after 20 years of marriage, seeing her dress sluttier, showing pride in her sexual liberation, watching her flirt with other men, glowing as she dances with them, seeing her orgasm on another man's cock, taking pride in her oral skills as she sucks another man's cock, fucks my brains out, whether when we are with another, or by ourselves, little things like flashing a trucker, playing with a toy while we go down the road, seeing her excitement as she begins the search for another lover and how she gets hotter as the day arrives, oftentimes becoming a cock craving slut when the moment arrives...and oh so much more.
o Because I believe it prevents the two partners from cheating on each other and I think shows the husband's love for his wife. He is not locking her up and keeping him all for his own desires, but allowing her to meet her needs as well. Love and sex is not the same thing and most people don't understand that. And loving someone is not the same as being in love with them.
o Because it’s a special gift from me. I love her and trust her love for me unconditionally. There is no greater proof of that than to allow her to be with other men
o Because it is extremely exciting. It is probably akin to a pilot training for emergencies in a flight simulator. In the back of your mind you know there will be no real harm but that does not stop the front of your mind from setting off all the appropriate alarm bells and letting the adrenalin flow
o Because it is adventuresome. I doubt that many old people sit around later in life regretting wild things they did when they were younger. Far better to look back and smile to yourself remembering the good times.
o Because it enhances our sex life. After four years sex between us is still almost as hot as ever largely due to our 'extra-curricular activities'.
o Because it makes me love her more. After she is with someone else I practically burst at the seams with love for her. It’s almost like being in love for the first time again complete with butterflies in the stomach. The state of pseudo 'competition' for her affections causes me to 'woo her' all over again, just like when we were first dating.
o Because it makes her feel sexy and beautiful. It’s easy for me to tell her that she is beautiful but of course I'm biased. For her to attract and bed another man makes her feel that she really is attractive and desirable. And the more she believes it the sexier and beautiful she gets. It’s a win-win situation.
o Because it's HOT. The images in my mind (and every once in awhile live and up close!) of her in the arms of another man and her letting him use her is extremely arousing to me. I don't know why that is but it isn't too uncommon (and there are certainly a thousand other things that people get off on that are way kinkier than that!).
o Because it’s natural. It’s an undisputed fact that men and women are pre-disposed to be promiscuous. Acceptance of this is so much easier than denial.
o Because it’s smart. The number one cause of a relationship failing is infidelity. If you can find a way around that you're much more likely to live happily ever after. Is the grass really greener over the fence? Go roll around in it and find out, just be home by morning.
o Because I think we're perfect for each other. We are so much alike yet just different enough to keep things interesting. I don't worry (much) about her finding someone so much better than me that she'd consider trading me in.
o
o Because underneath the goody goody, church going, homeschooling mom she is there was there is a Slut aching to get out. I figured it was a matter of time b4 she found some stranger on her own.
o The thrill of `reclaiming' her after she has been with a lover/boyfriend, the physical thrill of the release into her, knowing you are making her your wife again.
o Because it is truly amazing to watch her face, hear her moans, and see her with cum sprayed on her. It makes for a thrilling marriage. I guess I am a voyeur. I participate after he is done, usually when we get home.
o The way she works out, glows, tans, trims, primps and stays date hot all the time.
o Because I just love seeing my wife in sexual euphoria.
o Because it is so fucking hot and incredible. Just like her.

Reasons in Her Words:

o It really gets him going when I tell him the number of men I'm aiming at fucking whilst out. Also great pleasure in seeing the names of the guys I've just played with being texted through.
o Because it makes me feel like a princess, a very turned on, sexy, hot, wet, slutty, dirty, naughty, fucked little Princess. I love it.
o Because I love the thought of men pawing over me
o Because I'm turned on knowing he is so turned on
o Because I am extremely excited seeing him excited.
o I need to see the ‘action’, whereas hubby can get just as turned on imagining my goings on when I go off to a club.
o Because the wife is a desired sex object wanted and enjoyed by other men. The husband may be lagging behind his competitors. The wife is excited to be pursued and desired, and to have the power of choosing among her suitors. She can retain the security of the marriage while enjoying the variety and vanity of dating knowing all the while that her husband loves her more for playing this game.
o Because there is there's more to the motivation when seen from a woman's viewpoint like, higher self-esteem and narcissism when desired by many men, and the "Dating Years" being the high point in many women's lives.
o Because I think of this as a challenge for him. He sees that there are multiple men out there vying for my attention, him included. I would think that if he sees this he would be the one trying the hardest to keep me. In this situation what would keep him from losing me if some "knight in shining armor" decides to come and sweep me off my feet? Obviously he does not want to lose me, he loves me. I am his best friend. So in turn he has to try harder to keep me happy in all aspects of our life.
o Because I can make the decision to be with whomever I want, if they are lucky enough. I can cut him off if "I have a headache tonight". I can tell him that I want him to do certain things to me right now after I have been with one of my "fuck buddies". He will always be the one I come home to. He will always be my comfortable place. I do not ever want our sex life to be mundane and boring. I always want there to be this deeper level of excitement and passion. I want to learn new things and bring them home to him because at the end of the day he is mine and I his. So regardless of who I am with that day we will always have each other.
o Because seeing a woman writhing as my husband gives her cunnilingus sends such horny feelings through me. Feeling his arse as he pounds her - such a rush and makes for lots of dirty talk about it for weeks after (a rare HotHusband!)


Common Hotwifing Myths:

o He is a latent homosexual
o He is looking for an excuse to fuck other women
o He is not manly
o He is a closet submissive
o He doesn’t satisfy her
o His dick is too small
o He’s trying to get rid of her
o He’s crazy
o He had damaging childhood or emotional drama in his past
o Because there are issues with the marriage or the relationship
Last edited by TriangleTangle on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:53 pm, edited 7 times in total.

roadrunner
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by roadrunner » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:02 pm

Thanks for taking the time to write this up! It is a great summary of "Why we enjoy this so much".

Of course, as you acknowledge, this is a very complex subject with many different motivations, even within a single individual. But you've covered much of it.
Two words that should rarely be used when discussing human behavior are 'always' and 'never'!

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Luv It » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:56 pm

Interesting read.

I will just comment on one section .

"A good question is, does the woman experience Compersion? My mate says she does, but hers is the vicarious pleasure she gets from the pleasure I am getting from hers. We feed off each other, the more she enjoys the more I do and the more she does and on and on. I would like to hear more examples about aspect of Compersion enjoyed by women from the women themselves.

Personally, I definately get vicarious pleasure from my wife having relationships with other men and it is major turn on for me .
She also told me early on that it turns her on that it turned me on and we also feed of each others pleasure just as you described.

As far as "Compersion", I can say that I do indeed want my wife and her boyfriend to experience the most pleasure possibe from each other
The more pleasure they give each other, the more pleasure I get and the more I get turned on .
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by hornedhubby » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:48 pm

Bravo!! :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

And congratulations on a very fine synthesis of compersion as it relates to hotwifing. Just very well thought out, organized and succinctly written. While I've previously arrived at similar conclusions and drawn similar relationships on many of the points you made here, it was intellectually eye-opening to see it all laid out so thoroughly well.

Obviously I'm in enthusiastic agreement with your thesis. I expect I will allow your essay to sink in and then respond further in a few days.
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by NEOhioHubby » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:18 am

Wow.... Thank you so much for writing all of what I have been thinking , but unable to put into words,all along! Very well examined and explained re: HW!
"When you realize that she’s getting turned on by seeing you getting turned on by seeing how slutty & freaky she can be; that’s an aha moment"- NEOhioHubby

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by craven mohr » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:21 am

This is a fine treatment of this topic. Well said, sir!~

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:26 am

Thank you all for taking the time to read it! I know it is long winded, but that's just my style. I'd like to find the time to write a similar article dedicated to provocation. I am of the strong belief that is a fundamental to what many males in Hotwifing seek, but too often provocation is confused with strong dominance/submission in the more classical BDSM or cuckold realm and is a large source of confusion and not well understood by either the male or the female in this end of the lifestyle.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Luv It » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:37 am

TriangleTangle wrote:Thank you all for taking the time to read it! I know it is long winded, but that's just my style. I'd like to find the time to write a similar article dedicated to provocation. I am of the strong belief that is a fundamental to what many males in Hotwifing seek, but too often provocation is confused with strong dominance/submission in the more classical BDSM or cuckold realm and is a large source of confusion and not well understood by either the male or the female in this end of the lifestyle.

TT

Exactly what do you specifically mean by "provocation"?

As I said many times on these fourms, I'm not into any sort or dominance or cruel verbal humiliation .
Am I correct that in saying "provocation" it simply refers to reacting to events and situationsthat turn us on?

BTW, I would be interested in heaing your (welcomed) "long winded" take on submissivness and how it pertains to the husband being submissive to his wifes affairs.........not necessarily being submissive to his wife or her lover....... just to her affair(s). :)
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:20 pm

OK, since you twisted my arm I'll cough up an abridged version of what I began to write on the subject as a response :-)

Entertain me for a moment and assume my assertion about Compersion being at the root of Hotwifing is valid. That leads to the next key question: What are the most fundamental elements for required for successful Hotwifing? Other than the obvious surface answer of your wife fucking some other dude, I’ll go out on another limb and suggest there are two fundamental elements, provocation and evocation. Let’s examine these in more depth.

Evocation is the act or process of eliciting a response or effect, or in the case of Compersion, summoning up powerful emotions, many of which are specific aspects of jealousy, competition and in the case of Hotwifing, acting or reacting in some fashion. After all, if your woman takes a lover and but doing so has no effect on the husband, then why do it at all? If that’s the case it is certainly not a shared experience.

Provocation is about inciting or stirring emotions or feelings such as anger, fear, resentment, violence – the list goes on. My favorite expression I’ve read is ‘to get a rise out of someone’, meaning to tease or goad someone in order to evoke a desired response; to provoke a person to react; to bait.’ Provocation is very close in meaning to evocation, and some might ask why try to contrast the two terms. In this context I assign the act of provoking to the Hotwife and I assign evocation to the husband because the effect we’re after is to cause the husband to act or react, to evoke a response, reaction, or emotion.

Now that the technicalities are out of the way, let’s examine what these concepts mean in practice. Remember in the article we broke down jealousy in discrete components that include fear, insecurity, envy, competitiveness, inadequacy, possessiveness, fear of abandonment, feeling unloved and feeling left out. Right or wrong I added self-doubt, self-worth, and self-esteem to the list. The provocative acts are targeted at evoking (and if really effective, stoking) one or more of these emotions.

Little more needs to be done consciously by the Hotwife to create the most powerful provocation of them all than simply taking a lover. Heck, even if your wife won’t become a Hotwife or you’d never have the guts to even approach and ask her to do so, just imagining her taking on a lover suffices for millions of men. I think many women would be shocked to discover that their fears that husbands might be secretly imagining some other woman while they are having sex are misplaced – many men are imagining their wives getting pounded and inseminated by some faceless stud!

It could be enough simply by your wife taking one or more other men as lovers. If you are not there to participate directly (she plays without you), then your imagination fills in the blanks and can evoke a power response. If you are present to watch or participate in person, then you have no need to imagine it and for many that can evoke and even more powerful responses.

But the provocation doesn’t stop there. I consider everything leading up to a play date for the Hotwife foreplay between her and her husband and a potential for her to provoke the husband in many ways. For example, she might text her lover and not let you know, providing little or no provocation and evoking little or no emotional response from you which is no fun. Or, she might instead intentionally and wickedly share when she gets or send texts from her lover – even be giddy about it. That is most certainly a provocative act. These acts might range from subtle to overt, intentional or not. I prefer my lady be cognizant of them and be intentional and enjoy what she evokes in me. An overt and explicit provocation by the wife might be that she gets in your face or whispers in your ear with an air of lust “I can't want to get his big juicy cock inside me and feel his balls pounding my ass!". Another overt provocation might be that she asks me to help her get dressed for a date and have me listen while she waxes on about her lover or her anticipation. To me that separates Hotwifing from cuckolding. In a cuckold world it will less frequently be asking but instead, demanding or instructing and the cuckold submitting and complying. There is a fine line between the two and I will contend again that this is on a continuum along with humiliation which also falls more on the cuckold side of the line but neither are exclusive nor are they mutually exclusive.

My personal favorite provocation is when she comes in the front door after a date still dressed in her ‘fuck-me’ dress and heels, closes the door behind her, greets me with a big smile , lifts up her skirt and proudly shows me a massive load of cum seeping through her semi transparent panties. Can you say provocation in big bold capital letters? Such an act is a direct provocation of competition and harkens back to much that has been written about Sperm Wars (A great read by the way).

Provocation can be verbal or non-verbal, subtle or overt, passive or aggressive. I’d like to make a list of provocative acts that include physical, verbal and mental (a mind fuck popular in BDSM) ones and map them to the core emotions they stir, especially those of jealousy which I suggested are the very fuel of Compersion.

Allow me to make one final but critical point, especially for the ladies that might read this who wonder what her husband wants. It is the provocation we want from you the most, before, during, and after your play dates. That is our reward and all that we seek in return. You see, it tickles that array of jealous emotion and stokes the competition for us males. In fact, many of us want you to pour it on and not let up. We want you to provoke us to the breaking point where we fully assert ourselves and fight to win and take you back - with a pleasant degree of force if necessary. And this brings to attention what I believe is a common misunderstanding for the wives - don't give in! Many new Hotwives mistakenly think their mate's reward is to praise them, let them know they've won you back and conquered - not so fast! In fact, personally, I love it when my lady continues to provoke me all the way until we're totally spent, creating a war of the wills in the interim. It is after that we prefer to cuddle and coo and bring the tenderness back into it. Not all husbands prefer this, but I'll wager the majority does and many can't find the words to express it well to the Hotwife that is their goddess.

I am sure many reading this can list good examples of power provocations. In my opinion this subject deserves its own discussion thread we could title: “What are your favorite provocative acts from your Hotwife and what response does each evoke in you?” or something on that order.
Anyhow, that’s the essence of my thoughts on the subject (since you asked!) and I’d love to hear other views and opinions.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Luv It » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:46 pm

yes....
I call that my wife knowing how to "push all the right buttions to turn me on" concering her hot wife activities. :)
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Cody Alston » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Tangled Triangle's original posting was on September 10. Although I keep up with the board, somehow I missed it. On September 19 he sent me a PM, asking me to critique his posting. I have now done that.

I was originally going to send it to him via PM. But after reading his posting, and realizing that it in effect is a primer on hotwifing, I figured it would be better to post my critique here. So here it is:

Tangled Triangle,

First off, I completely agree that your original posting is LONG! LOL.

Second, I must confess I'm just a bit irked that you did this post without having read Hotwifing, even though your PM said "I can hardly wait to read the book".

So here you went to all the trouble of posting, but said "I have yet to find an entire book devoted what to what this forum and most of us term Hotwifing. If you'd read Hotwifing and not liked it, that would be one thing. But to say in your POSTING that you're not aware of it just flabbergasts me. (And it's particularly ironic given that there's been a thread on it for maybe a year now, and Inigo and Agatha Montoya---the co-founders of this board---have a blurb on the inside front cover of the book saying that it's the first of its kind.)

I'd not even heard of Taormino's book. So thanks for mentioning it. I have a copy of The Ethical Slut, but lost interest in it early on. I need to get back to it and finish it.

I don't like the word "compersion." It hasn't caught on. It reminds me of the author (her name has slipped my mind) who coined the term "limerance" to mean what heretofore had been referred to as "romantic love." That didn't catch on either. "Compersion," I know, suggests "compassion," and is drawn from it. But to me it also suggests "compression," which is the main reason I don't like it. Just the sound of the word. And I think "compersion" is far too broad to be used to cover "hotwifing" in a way that makes it clear what's being referred to.

You note that "Hotwife and Hotwifing are limiting terms in themselves." So? ALL words are limiting. If they weren't, they'd not be much use. Even vague words such as "love" and "honor" are limiting.

You said it would be rare for a husband to get anywhere by saying to his wife "Honey, I'd like us to try Hotwifing!" Well, if she has no idea what it is, of course he won't get anywhere. But then you say he'd get a lot farther if he said, "Honey, I'd like us to try compersion!" ----AND THEN EXPLAINED IT TO HER.

You're using a double standard here: criticizing him for referring to hotwifing without defining it, but then telling him to use "compersion" and IMMEDIATELY define it.

"Compersion" is a feeling, apparently. Assuming it's a great concept (and I do not), it would make more sense, seems to me, to say that compersion is what hotwifing can lead to...as can an open marriage, polyamory, or swinging, one would suppose.

Besides, "hotwifing" has a clear definition that distinguishes it from those other things: she does, he doesn't; she can, he can't.

My book talks about broaching the subject of hotwifing, in a way that defines it, and only later should the husband (who's nearly always the initiator) discloses that what he wants is for his wife to become a hotwife. I don't see that there's any problem with that. Nor do I really see that it's any different from your suggested approach re. compersion.

You're right that it's not much help for husbands to say they want their wives to have sex with other men because it would be "fun." That's a cop-out, a non-answer. But I noticed that most men don't want to be particularly introspective or articulate about this, for whatever reason. They want it, bad. But we Americans, in particular, tend to use "fun" as an explanation for wanting something when we don't want to really think about why we want it. So, while on the one hand it's fair to criticize them for using "fun" as their rationale, in fact they are using "fun" only because they want to give SOME reason but without having to engage in the introspection that might lead to their REAL reason...which is probably buried in the subconscious anyway.

Okay, now, I have to flat-out take issue with you when you say "Compersion is a metaphysical state of being." Metaphysics is a branch of philosophy...a branch that dried up centuries ago. I don't see that it adds anything, except, well, some pretentiousness, to add "metaphysical" to the statement.

Further, I would even disagree that compersion is a state of being, metaphysical or otherwise. As I said above, it's a feeling. Call it a state of MIND if you wish, or a "condition of the soul" (whatever that might mean), but "a state of being" is so vague as to be meaningless.

And I further disagree with your implicit (explicit?) statement that jealousy is essential if one is to achieve compersion. Well, there are those rare individuals who are not jealous. Are you saying they are incapable of achieving compersion?

And at this point, I am going to express annoyance that you didn't even mention Nancy Friday's book, Jealousy. Nancy Friday is brilliant, and her book is brilliant. Because I've not read Tarmoino's book, I can't say anything about him. But my hunch is that his book has nowhere near the insights that Friday's does.

And then you say "jealousy is too broad a term." You're playing both ends against the middle here. On the one hand, you said that "hotwifing" was too limiting a term. Now you're saying "jealousy" is too broad. I don't think this is fair of you. When you want a word to have a wider meaning, you say it's too limiting. But when you want to parse into to new words, apparently, you say a word is too broad.

You said that "empathy" and "self-security" are two keys to success in achieving compersion. Well, I had a chapter on keys to success. There were six. One of them was "sensitivity" (which I think could work as a synonym for "empathy"). You then say that to achieve self-security requires "unbreakable trust, total honesty, and complete loyalty to the emotional primacy of the relationship." Well, I also spoke of honesty, trust, and transparency as three of the six keys to success. So, we seem to be in agreement here, just using different words.

You said "brainwashed" would be a better term for what happens to people than "cultural programming." This may seem like quibbling on my part, but "brainwashing" is a specific set of techniques to, in effect, totally undo someone's previous values, world view, way of thinking, etc., and to replace it with new values, a new world view and way of thinking, etc.. It's a pejorative term, of course, meaning that the result of the brainwashing is bad. Yet, our cultural conditioning is NOT brainwashing. It's just our cultural conditioning. Not to be a smart-ass here, but: shedding one's old values, world view, and ways of thinking about sex and love, via reading a book such as Tarmino's Opening Up are what comprise the brainwashing---though you (and perhaps I) would agree that in this case the result is good rather than bad.

Besides, one cannot discount the fact that the cultural conditioning about sex is pretty much the same in every civilization that has ever existed, anywhere. Yes, there are pockets of alternatives. But they're almost always in what are rightly called primitive cultures or in society's that remained marginal to major civilizations. Why is that? Because the rules WORKED. They preserved social stability, predictability, etc..

That doesn't mean the rules were good in a moral sense, or the moral values they imposed were good. It just means they worked for society---which is a good in itself.

But the very nature of society has largely changed, especially in the past 200 years, with vastly more individual freedom and mobility. And the Pill and other reliable forms of contraception have eliminated the basis for most of the old rules.

So my point in this digression is this: the old rules are "bad" only insofar as times have changed, and we need new rules for those who no longer desire to be under the control of the old rules. Maybe what you're writing about "compersion" is part of a new set of rules that we ought to have. But what counts is what stands the test of time and what promotes a creative balance between social stability and individual fulfillment. There's no need to lambaste the old rules and label them "brainwashing." They served a useful purpose for the vast majority throughout history, and even today in most places.

This emphasis on compersion is a bit annoying. It seems to be saying that a roll in the hay for a wife whose husband wants her to be with another man is inadequate justification all by itself for the encounter. It reminds me of the people (mostly women) who apparently feel guilty (though they won't admit it) about sex and thus insist that a good fuck is somehow inadequate---that sexual intercourse always has to be a spiritual encounter, almost a religious rituatl, that unless the soul is elevated the sex is somehow impure. Pull-eeze.

There's nothing wrong with a good horse-fuck, or a quickie, just as there's certainly nothing wrong with true love-making. Any one couple can engage in all of these, at different times, depending on their mood. So, when some husbands say it's "fun" to share their wives, well, sometimes that IS the explanation, and there's nothing wrong with that. ---And it's obvious that for many hotwives, quite often it's simply FUN to have a romp in the sack with a man other than their husband. That's fine too.

I just don't understand, or agree with, this positing of "compersion" as the gold standard by which to evaluate anything and everything connected to hotwifing. To do so is to do what intellectuals typically do: to intellectualize something, to set up a hierarchy of analysis and valuation of its variations, and so on.

It was right of you, TT, to note that most men claim "it's all about her," yet in reality it's the men who are the initiators of hotwifing almost all the time. If it were "all about her," they wouldn't push so hard for it, as so many men do---often to the point of destroying any chance of their wife's becoming a hotwife. There most certainly is very much something in it for the husband/boyfriend: sexual excitement of a new and often astounding sort. I made that point in Hotwifing.

And now I must thoroughly disagree with you on something else. You said, "[A]re you ready to let her go if she says she doesn't want to continue the relationship with you, even if you've been married for many years, kids, house the whole shebang just to see her happy? If not, you lack the selflessness required to be successful in this endeavor." (Italics in the original.)

Your previous sentence in your posting referred to her wanting to quit hotwifing. So, in context, "if she says she doesn't want to continue the relationship with you" means that she wants to LEAVE her husband.

I am floored that you think a husband is somehow defective in the development of his soul because he doesn't want to let her go.

Good grief. Think through what you said. You mentioned KIDS. So, she wants to end the relationship her husband---and all the husband is supposed to think about is that if that's what she thinks will make her happy, all that counts is that. Not the husband's feelings, not the kids'. Wow.

Yet, you seem to contradict yourself when, toward the end of your posting, you said, "I don't know one woman who doesn't put the welfare of her children above all else." YOU might not know one, but in my line of work I've met and dealt with several. You are generalizing from your own experience---and, frankly, helping to perpetuate a myth. Read any newspaper on any given day (with the possible exception of the NY Times and the Christian Science Monitor, and with the definite exceptions of the Wall Street Journal and Investors Business Daily, and the chances are good you'll see at least one news item about a mother who has done one or more children, of her own, wrong---sometimes in appalling ways.

There have been many postings over the past 12 years about wives who, well, lost their heads (figuratively speaking) over an "other man," and marginalized their husbands. Yet, eventually, they came to their senses. Sometimes, they came to their senses only because the husband kept his head while she was losing hers, and (to shift the metaphor) put his foot down.

Granted, sometimes the wife is right to leave. But sometimes she would be making a terrible mistake---a mistake that's obvious even at the time, but would be obvious even to her in hindsight. So, IT'S (soemtimes) IN HER BEST INTEREST for the husband to not meekly acquiesce in her desire to walk out on everything, even if the husband IS truly selfless.

The same is true for a wife who tries to bring her husband back down to earth when he says he wants to quit his job, sell everything, and become a Buddhist monk in Sri Lanka.

You seemed to assume that if the husband tries to get his wife to stay, he wants "a slave for a spouse." Well, excuse me. Turn it around: the nature of the master-slave relationship was that the master could sell the slave at any time, even kill the slave. The slave had to always be "selfless." So, given what you said, isn't the ideal husband you've described here actually a slave?

You spoke of compersion as being about the COUPLE. Yet now, suddenly, it's all about her. The husband's/boyfriend's only mission is to see to her happiness. No doubt many women entertain that idea in fantasy. But in reality, even a cuckold/wittol who wants to be totally denied sex is still in effect making demands on his wife to get himself pleased.

Hotwifing, as you initially noted, is about the couple. And so, I am flabbergasted that your discussion of "empathy" has suddenly turned into a one-way empathy.

I have the feeling that there's a cult aspect about your discussion, as though people would have to take courses and so forth, to be deemed worthy of advancing into the "metaphysical" state of being of true compersion.

As for your reasons men and women, respectively, like hotwifing, I believe that I covered them in Hotwifing. Although my list of reasons is vastly shorter, each reason covers many of those you listed. And I have more than one chapter on the myths about what's "really" behind a husband's expressed desire for his wife to take up hotwifing.

You have what in effect is a book of your own on hotwifing here. I assume your posting was meant to test the waters, and that you intend to seek a publisher. I welcome books, articles, etc., on hotwifing that are reasonably fair and accurate. But I would not be able to give a favorable review to a book that retains most of what you have here.

I can see that you meant well, but I really don't think you've thought this through in a way that's sound.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:26 am

Cody,

Thank you for your thoughts and opinions. Yes, I privately asked for those and you did - but I didn't expect that much of a public response to a private message. In any event, I thank you and keep an open mind. I have much to contemplate on all of the points you made and will. Remember though, what I wrote is based on years of personal experience and extensive discussion with others on boards other than OHW. We're all entitled to our own views. That is why I spent considerable time on the opening disclaimer - these are views from one practitioner's perspective and experience, not everyone has to agree but I found many do.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear, as I said in the opening this was a post to a forum thread that just got long. As I read the opening and closing of your response I get the distinct sense you think this is a precursor to a book - it isn't isn't and I can underscore in bold boldface that I am not even contemplating writing a book and can put that in 24 point typeface to ally that concern. In fact, I wasn't even aware of your book at the time I wrote and posted this and didn't know it was even shipping now when I first read the post about the book only yesterday. Is it actually shipping? Though I am flattered you think that is my intent! I would however, implore you do take a deeper look into compersion at a deeper level. One cannot truly understand compersion until one experiences it - its somewhat similar to a Freudian 'ah ha!' moment.

Thank you again, and I am looking forward to reading your book!

TT

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by phaedruscj » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:12 pm

I'll try this again. In my opinion Mr Alston's response is unnecessarily condescending and dismissive as if only he can write on the topic. I find Triangle's explanation compelling. Mr Alston's response seems to be more oriented to protecting his brand.

I am confused about the availabiltiy of Mr Alstons book as I see repeated reference to the fact that it is delayed in being available on Amazon. I'll go back and review the site to find the necessary instructions for purchase.

Thanks to the moderator for saving me from humiliation and embarassment as I'm more into the hotwifing than cuckolding side of the equation.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by allengt » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:59 pm

phaedruscj wrote:I'll try this again. In my opinion Mr Alston's response is unnecessarily condescending and dismissive as if only he can write on the topic. I find Triangle's explanation compelling. Mr Alston's response seems to be more oriented to protecting his brand.

I am confused about the availabiltiy of Mr Alstons book as I see repeated reference to the fact that it is delayed in being available on Amazon. I'll go back and review the site to find the necessary instructions for purchase.

Thanks to the moderator for saving me from humiliation and embarassment as I'm more into the hotwifing than cuckolding side of the equation.
The book is not available on Amazon yet but still can be ordered through this site.
http://ourhotwives.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 60#p281660
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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Cody Alston » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:10 pm

Minor point, first: as to whether I'm a "Mr." or a "Ms.," the opinion is evenly divided. Allengt, who owns the OHW board now, is apparently convinced I'm a he. The co-founders of the board, Inigo and Agatha Montoya, have told me they're convinced I'm a hotwife. I try to keep my gender out of it, so people will concentrate on the message rather than the messenger.

As for your comments about my condescension: you might well be right. If you are right, I don't apologize for it. As I said in my critique, it's irksome that someone would claim that there was no book already out on hotwifing, when mine has been out for a year. Further, David Ley's book was out almost a year before mine, and CLAIMED to be on hotwifing, though I would argue it isn't. Moreover, Tangled Triangle said he'd done a lot of research on this, yet had been unaware of the existence of either my book or Ley's. That suggests no real research at all, other than his own personal experiences and reading about "compersion." Granted, in a more recent posting, he noted that he was unaware of my book (although apparently also unaware of Ley's) at the time he drafted his posting. But, again, that bespeaks a lack of research, given that Ley has posted about his book several times, and allengt has an entire featured thread on mine, which OHW sells to raise funds to defray its expenses.

So, put yourself in my shoes: a guy who says there is no book on hotwifing then contacts the author of what is the first book on hotwifing, and asks that author to critique the guy's posting. How do you think I felt? How would YOU feel? ---To first be insulted by someone, and then asked for a favor to that same someone.

The other thing that really annoyed me is that "compersion" is apparently part of a New Age philosophy that's being promoted to those who want to fancy themselves avant garde. It sets up a hierarchy of purity in "compersion," with judgment rendered as to who and who is not sufficiently enlightened.

The posting was supposed to be about hotwifing, but it turned out hotwifing was just the platform from which to launch a manifesto about compersion.

I have always taken issue with those who want to establish a hierarchy with respect to hotwifing. Those who've been around awhile can perhaps remember my ongoing argument with those who insisted it isn't "real" hotwifing unless the husband is present when the wife plays. Then, of course, there were those who insisted that it isn't "real" hotwifing unless the husband PARTICIPATES when the wife plays. And so on.

My attitude has always been that if it works for a couple, that's all that counts. There is simply no need for others to butt in and insist that hotwifing is actually part of compersion---and only those who meet the spiritual criteria of a gury of comperson can be said to truly be practicing hotwifing.

I further pointed out what I regard as several logical and factual contradictions in the posting.

Now, if you think it's "condescending" to point out the flaws in someone's reasoning, well, that's your choice. Do what you want, and as long as no one gets hurt and you like it, that's fine by me---whether you regard yourself as a disciple of "compersion" or not. I am not trying to set myself up as a guru and to develop a cult following. My book was meant to survey hotwifing and cuckoldry. Although I don't beat the drum for either, I do provide what I think is a balanced treatment. People can then make up their own minds as to what to do or not do.

I doubt that at this point you're still interested in reading my book. But in case you are: allengt said the deadline for ordering was August 31, but my publisher tells me orders are still coming in from stragglers. So you might PM allengt and ask if it would be okay to order the book even though the deadline has passed.

My publisher keeps telling me that the book will be available "soon" on Amazon, in both print and eBook form.

And as long as I'm on the subject of availability: my collection of short stories, Wives' Tales, is going to the printer next week, and should be on Amazon in November, both in print and eBook form. Each of the 12 stories illustrates an aspect of hotwifing/cuckoldry in action. It's written mostly for those who are THINKING ABOUT taking up hotwifing, and might benefit from reading an entire scenario of how it might go, from just thinking about it through doing it and the feelings afterwards.

The final book (for now) is The Other Man: A Guide to No-Strings-Attached Sex via Hotwifing. It's short (less than 100 pages), and is now being typeset. It too should be available in November. It's mostly written for someone who's a would-be "other man" (as I call it, rather than "fuck buddy"), but can help couples in that it helps them to become aware of red flag situations.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:08 pm

phaedruscj,

I have a thick skin and prefer to take the high road. Cody Alston made some interesting observations to which s/he is entitled. For example, I tend to agree that my use of the word 'brainwashed' would normally be over the top - in a formally published manuscript that is. What I wrote was written casually and most readers in an informal discussion forum such as this one will get the intent of what I meant; I don't know why s/he didn't. On that point, I do feel that in historical terms, ruling aristocracies do a sort of cultural conditioning that borders on brainwashing. After all, they do not want women to be sexually liberated and independent; they culture women for traditional post-agricultural roles as breeding machines in nuclear families so they can generate obedient soldiers to protect their fortunes that ignorantly fight and die as pawns in a crusade for more wealth - so yes, I call that a subtle form of cultural brainwashing and more accurately as Cody Alston points out, cultural conditioning.

On compersion, I feel s/he is wildly off-base calling it a new age concept. Only in recent years has a term been coined to uniquely identify a previously unlabeled powerful and compelling emotion. I’d ask Cody to reconsider because by his/her own admission, and I quote:

“in fact they are using "fun" only because they want to give SOME reason but without having to engage in the introspection that might lead to their REAL reason...which is probably buried in the subconscious anyway”.

I am contenting is that comperson is that REAL reason that is buried in the subconscious. If s/he does not agree then I challenge Cody to provide his or her own theory of exactly what that root element is that is buried in the subconscious. If in fact Cody Alston is really a she, then that would certainly explain why she doesn’t grasp sexual compersion as it is generally a male experience - and it’s no wonder why she doesn’t get it.

And for the record, I did read Dr. Ley’s book on Insatiable Wifes but did not consider it a practical book on Hotwifing, but in retrospect could have cited it. I actually found that book to be quite shallow when it came to the male perspective. Cody says him/herself: "Further, David Ley's book was out almost a year before mine, and CLAIMED to be on hotwifing, though I would argue it isn't". So I ask why s/he argues first I should have cited it then find that s/he actually agrees with my own view that book really wasn't about hotwifing - odd to say the least!

When I read Cody Alston's opinions, which I personally and privately requested by the way, I needed to read past a number of statements that I considered quite unnecessary and unproductive and focused on only the relevant comments. I wish only that Cody Alston would, as an credible author, respect and give credence to multiple points of view such as this one that resonate with many males or the book for sale will be quite myopic.

This is a discussion forum and, if this forum has any integrity whatsoever, it will encourage the free and open exchange of ideas with respectful and civil discourse and not censor anything but troublemakers that violate the terms of the site. I'd like participants to discuss more of the subject than create conflict; most of us are an intelligent bunch we don't need to devolve into personal attacks when we disagree. Hopefully we can all rise above that.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Cody Alston » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:13 pm

TT,
You might well be right that "compersion" is the ultimate motivation, from a man's point of view, for wanting to share his woman. But that's beside the point. Psychology has split into as many sects as Protestantism has, with each claiming to have the "ultimate" Christianity or explanation of the roots of human behavior, respectively. Althought here is anecdotal evidence to support virtually any psychological theory, that hardly means it's possible to prove one or the other. So, I must decline the challenge to create my own theory; I think that would be extravagantly pretentious.

My book's subtitle says what it's about---"Hotwifing: Whether to Try It, Ways to Go about It, How to Handle It." I do not try to develop some grand theory. And I do not think a grand theory is advised. Grand theory has a way of becoming dogma, and from there, rigidly enforced orthodoxy. And, as I noted, to start with the grand theory of "compersion," and to work down from there to comparing the varieties of hotwifing/cuckoldry experiences to the gold standard of the grand theory, is to get things backward. Unfortunately, it's been a characteristic of Western thought even since Plato's "Forms." I prefer the Aristotelian approach.

Had you cited Ley's book with approval then yes I would have taken issue with you on that. But my complaint was based on your claim that no other book existed on the subject of hotwifing. Although I think Ley was being disingenuous when he (or at least his publisher) claimed that his book was about hotwifing, at least there was _A_ book out there, even before mine, that CLAIMED to be all about hotwifing. False advertising, perhaps. So, just as a matter of showing that you'd done your homework, I think you should have at least acknowledged its existence---albeit to then perhaps disparage it.

I do not see it as a personal attack to critique someone's work when that work is made available to what might be called the general public. For example, right now I'm reading the new book The End of Men. It's made quite a splash in the media. However, it now appears that the author's research was quite sloppy and the statistics she claimed were true either do not exist at all or else are taken completely out of context. As a reader, I am grateful for the critiques, because those critiques help me to put the author's propositions into better perspective.

That is one of the blessings of our society and its freedom of speech: you can pretty much say what you want, but others who want to criticize it are also free to do so. (Contrast that with the attitude in certain other countries.) If someone puts out a large writing, which is mostly theoretical in nature, then he or she is---or should be---implicitly inviting criticism, both favorable and unfavorable.

You have made much of the fact that you asked for a private critique from me. But your posting was public, BEFORE your request for my comments. So in effect, you're saying that because you requested a private critique, I was obligated to provide ONLY a private critique, and to eschew a public one, even though your writing was posted publicly.

In effect, you would be censoring me. I could have sent you exactly the same thing I posted, and perhaps that would have mollified you. I simply do not know. Regardless, I had a right to go "public" with my critique of a theory that I believe is quite wrong-headed and rigid.

Had you sent me your writing before posting, and asked for a critique, it would have been dirty of me to post a public critique that quoted from your unposted work.

I would have sent you a purely private critique. You could have then either argued with me about your theory, and we could have ended up respectfully disagreeing, or you might have changed my mind---or I might have changed yours.

But as it was, you went public before asking for my comments. So I also had a right to go public, especially since I was engaging in a good faith effort to counter what I think was a bogus theory.

As for whether "compersion" is "New Age" or not, it makes no difference. I do stand by what I said in that regard, however.

You took me to task for not giving credence to multiple points of view. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, true. But an opinion with no evidence to back it up, and based on no logic but just on a theory pulled out of thin air, is not worthy of credence. It can be quite useful as food for thought, but so can almost anything.

Those who want to believe what you say are free too. But I do think decision-making should be based on more than a leap of faith. I always prefer facts, and logic, both based on reality rather than a purely theoretical construct.

In sum, I don't think you played fair with me, at all. It's even more annoying that you're now tacitly accusing me of not playing fair with you when all I did was to not be manipulated into public silence because of your private request. If this is a "personal attack" on my part, so be it.

But my original posting was a criticism of the message you posted, rather than the messenger. I would argue that it's your subsequent references to me that have made this personal. And I am sorry about that, because I for one have always loved the give-and-take of intellectual discourse, of open debate on the merits of each side's position.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:21 am

Cody,

Then by all means, let's continue the discourse without any direct or veiled attacks, personal or otherwise. In my response I fail to see where I attacked you. Your original post was the one to openly reveal that yours was in response to my personal request and I subsequently defended your right to respond and have openly welcomed it - especially because I requested for your input. How anyone could perceive anything I have responded with as a personal attack thus far is quite perplexing to say the least, but that is beside the point. I think you had every right to respond in the open forum and I am glad that you did. It expands the discussion and let's others weigh both of our views - isn't that what these boards are for?

....and I am still eagerly looking forward to reading your book. If folks reread my opening disclaimer they will read that I invited all points of view and expected some who agree and some who disagree as it is a highly controversial topic, and so far my original points have resonated with most here. That says something and I suggest you pay a bit more attention to their responses and not dismiss them so easily. Oh and by the way, its TriangleTangle, not TangledTriangle - although your point is clear that you consider my points of view tangled - whereas I contend most of the people on this site (including yours truly) to be quite tangled or wishing to be so :-)

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by peakmb » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:46 am

OK, enough you two. Polite it may seem but pulling each other gently apart in this way isn't adding much to the sum total of human knowledge and, in my opinion, has got beyond the point of edifying reading. You may believe what you both write is received wisdom but I think most readers of this site will not be naive enough to read it as such. Opinion stated as fact is nearer the mark. Still very interesting, and I think you both made insightful points which I am glad you posted, but let’s move on. Please.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by stand77 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:44 pm

Compersion? "Compersion is a state of empathetic happiness and joy experienced when an individual's current or former romantic partner experiences happiness and joy through an outside source, including, but not limited to, another romantic interest. This can be experienced as any form of erotic or emotional empathy, depending on the person experiencing the emotion."
I wasn't aware of the word before and I find it accurately describes my feelings. I agree with most of your article. And I haven't read "Hotwifing the Book". I don't plan to either because it doesn't seem to be available.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by tlink » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:00 pm

I have to agree with the criticism of the criticism here. Alston you need to chill and loose the arrogance.

TT, I am impressed at your restraint in your response. (I also am impressed with your analysis. At this point I doubt I will bother with Alston's book.)

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:45 am

I have an open mind and feel that mine is not a one-size fits all analysis; it represents one perspective, and, to be fair, any thorough dissertation of the subject would include this perspective one as well as several other perspectives and present all of them without bias. What I find really telling is the preponderance of males with whom this resonates deeply - and that is the measure upon which credibility is measured. Judging from the book's table of contents I doubt that book will conflict with these views and offer far more depth and breadth on the subject - but I have yet to buy it and read it which I plan to do and encourage others to do the same.

TT

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by TriangleTangle » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:38 am

I have received a copy of Hotwifing, Whether to Try It, Ways to Go About It, How to Handle It and I’ve read it though completely once and now starting through it again a second time. As I said previously, I am am experienced practitioner of Hotwifing for years as well as other alternate lifestyle facets and come at this review with a fairly balanced view. What follows are my own personal opinions after reading the book and as the author, Cody Alston says in the book’s forward, “take this with a grain of salt”. Cody Alston goes on to say some of us might change his/her mind for a second edition. I hope that is a sincere statement.

That said, let me congratulate Cody Alston on ‘Hotwifing, Whether to Try It, Ways to Go About It, How to Handle It’. Like the author, I’ve read a lot of books and articles on lifestyle over the years and have been a prolific forum participant on another site for many years, but am new to the OHW site. I honestly didn’t know about this book at the time I made my original post - I was that new of a member of OHW at the time (less than a week and it was clear in the forum that I was), so I was a bit appalled at Alson’s initial indignation that I hadn’t yet read the book before posting my thoughts and opinions in this thread, and that was entirely unfair as was what seemed to be a fear of competition that there might be someone floating a test balloon to publishing – but I digress.

Back to the book. What did I think about it? Frankly, it is arguably the first real and almost comprehensive book on Hotwifing, period. The book reads well and the author has obviously done extensive research on the subject. The opinions expressed are backed up exceeding well by the actual words of practitioners and aspiring practitioners. This book is an absolute must-read for anyone contemplating or actively practicing this aspect of this alternate lifestyle.

Did I personally get anything new and revealing from the book? No, but it confirmed and reinforced much of what I have personally experienced as the husband of a Hotwife. Remember also I have been a Bull in the past for couples, I was in the couple swapping lifestyle for years, I was a Dom in the true BDSM sense and a sub for a while just to experience the ‘other’ side and far, far more – so little is new for me save for some historical and largely irrelevant factoids. Maybe that is why experienced folks explore the deeper aspects and seek a deeper, more fundamental understanding than others that prefer to stay on the surface or just don’t have enough experience to know or want to be as self-introspective.

I have lots to say about this book, but I’ll sum up a few initial observations here since the author says “So I invite you, as you read, to think about, and perhaps discuss this book with anyone else, to note your responses, with a view to perhaps sharing them with me.” Thanks for that invitation! This is it my first contribution.

Just an aside – after a full reading am 100% thoroughly convinced that Cody Alston (pen name) is female. I can go on at length about why I feel certain of that beyond a shadow of a doubt due to certain patterns with which I am familiar. If I am mistaken I will buy the author a bottle of fine wine and congratulate him on being a masterful Chameleon, but I will leave it at that. I feel this also explains why, as a female, Alston cannot experience the deeper male psychology of what my original post is all about and dismisses it as some 'new age' concept or philosophy when it fact it identifies what many can't put into words on a more fundamental level.

I have many wonderful things to say about this great book – and it is just that, a great book, but it could be even better. Let me explain.

Alston knows already that chapters 7, 10 and 12 are generally superfluous and goes so far in the Forward to imply that with a disclaimer. In fact, all of Section 4 is pretty much worthless for most of the audience that I suspect will be mostly male and I think most readers will agree with me. It more likely has greater value to female readers and for that I can see a (scant) argument why it could remain, but has the appearance that the author wanted to include it more to bolster his/her credibility as a researcher on the subject, which was entirely unnecessary in my opinion - the author is credible enough.

Worse, it took valuable space that could have been put to better use to cover what was blatantly absent from the book, which I’ll get into in a moment. Chapter 10 and its addendum is essentially an unprofessional and unbecoming rant against another author’s work, Insatiable Wives, by Dr. Ley. It was an attack and hatchet job and I am left scratching my head as to Alston's motivation for including it. Granted, Alston’s dissection and points about Lee’s book were 100% spot on, no argument at all there. I also read that book a few years ago and dismissed it after having high hopes from its covers but that is beside the point. The one passage Alston did cite as positive was in fact the only golden nugget of that book, but that was still somewhat gratuitous at best. I am certain the author “won’t apologize” for that attack either - that is becoming a pattern if you pay close attention, I am seeing a subtle pattern of paranoia unfolding and I sincerely mean that as constructive advice to the author. Perception is every bit important as actual intent. Please let readers come to those conclusions about other works themselves – we don’t need authors bashing and attempting to discredit each other in their formal published works at an attempt to bolster their own credibility.

Now back to what is missing. As I read though the book I saw dozens of examples and evidence from people’s quotes that drove right to the root of jealousy. Only a few could actually identify and label their feelings as jealousy or rooted in aspects of jealousy because many don’t have a deeper understanding of jealousy and its many subcomponents. I was really disappointed there wasn’t a chapter devoted to a full discussion of jealousy as it is at the root of male motivation for so many males in Hotwifing. All one has to ask is why does it have to be your wife and not some other random woman? in every instance and keep asking ‘why?’ when you get male responses on motivation. Inevitably it comes down to erotic excitement rooted in these subcomponents. Chapter 22 punts the issue of feelings to people’s quotes with virtually no analysis or even opinion - argghh! As I went through each excerpt I could easily label the specific component of jealousy underlying each of them one after the other. Chapter 18, The Six Keys to Success avoids any real discussion on how to handle jealousy. Managing and mastering jealousy is a major key to success and in my experience, the most important key for men. The six keys covered are very good, but exactly what a woman would emphasize from a non-male perspective.

Alston admitted in an earlier post not having read the books Opening Up or The Ethical Slut. I personally know dozens of couples across the alternate lifestyle world and these two books are universally read by most who read non-fiction lifestyle literature. When asked, experienced couples recommend them highly and frequently to each other. I am aghast, horrified, and disappointed the author hasn’t read them (or only started one of them) after having done 10 years of research; these are among the very few non-fiction books in print on lifestyle and have been around for years. Though they tilt more towards swinging and polyamory on occasion, they contain critical discussions Alston omitted that are also critical to Hotwifing. Moreover, Alston previously cited a book in an earlier response dedicated to jealousy yet didn’t think it important enough a subject to Hotwifing on which to spend considerable time - odd. Mr/Ms Alston, I implore you to consider this for a second edition to expand upon an otherwise excellent book on Hotwifing.

Finally, I stand by my original post that compersion is a critical aspect of Hotwifing for men. That truth is more than evident in the responses in this thread and cannot be ignored. There is no way I’d recommend Alston’s book to anyone without strongly suggesting they first read the chapters on Jealousy and Compersion in the book Opening Up, even if those are the only two chapters they read. The Ethical Slut is great for just that, understanding that even Hotwifing requires ethical behavior which the author also skimmed over and drives to explaining why being sexually independent – especially for women, is something to embrace and of which not be shameful, but proud like men are 'studs'.

I hope the author takes this as constructive input that was invited explicitly in the book. The fact is I had no disagreement about what was in the book, my criticism is what was omitted and the wasted space on superfluous material in Section 4 that could have been used instead to cover critical missing pieces. As I said, ‘Hotwifing, Whether to Try It, Ways to Go About It, How to Handle It’ is terrific and a must read. I'd give it 4 stars; the 5th star is reserved until the second edition is published. :up:

Regards,
TriangleTangle
Last edited by TriangleTangle on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by craven mohr » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:56 am

TT's original treatise on compersion resonated enough with me that I pasted it to a file on my (then soon-to-be) HW's computer. She read the entire thing. (and a bunch of other stuff too) A couple weeks later, we were popping the HW cherry. There's obviously much more to the story, but that suffices here.

Having now skimmed the discussion above between TT and CA, ‘Hotwifing, Whether to Try It, Ways to Go About It, How to Handle It’ is now on my must-read list. I wish it had been available 25 years ago . . .

I'm going to find it and buy it asap. Thanks for the ongoing discourse, TT and CA.

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Re: Non-Fiction: Compersion and The Cool Fire of Hotwifing

Unread post by Cody Alston » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:57 pm

Craven Mohr---I doubt THIS is more of what you're cravin', but here goes...


This is in reply to Tangled Triangle’s critique of my book, Hotwifing.

At the outset: I am indeed grateful for his critique. It’s certainly engaging. Even though he and I differ as to his objections, it’s a thorough critique that’s quite thought-provoking. That’s the sort of review an author values. And as you can see from what follows, I did put a lot of thought into this reply.

So what I’ll do now is to go through what are arguably secondary points, then discuss his stress on “compersion” a bit, and wrap up with related matters.

SUPERFLUITY?

Tangled says that chapters 7, 10, and 12 are “generally superfluous.”

Chapter 7 is “Famous Women Sometimes Thought to have been Hotwives.” It should come as no surprise that I don’t see it as superfluous. It’s in the book for two reasons:

First, during the decade that I researched the book, there were several postings on the OHW board asking about certain famous women, wondering if they were hotwives or claiming that they were hotwives. Examples: James Joyce’s wife, Nora, and Ayn Rand. Those weren’t hotwives. Only one woman in history is known to have been a hotwife: Edwina, Lady Mountbatten, the wife of Louis, last Viceroy of India (and Prince Charles’s uncle). To me, it was important to try to set the record straight. The information was not central to the discussion of hotwifing, but it just seemed right to address those questions that at least some people had.

And that brings me to the second reason for including that chapter, and others Tangled Triangle disparaged. It was (and still is) important to me that hotwifing be taken seriously. So I positioned the book (with the publisher’s agreement) in large part for those who just wanted to understand hotwifing for the sake of understanding it. (Of course, the other major audience is those who are thinking about taking it up themselves—as well as those who are already in it and perhaps could use some information on hazards to avoid, or at least how to deal with them if and when hazards become problems).

Were the book not the way it is, I’m quite sure I would not have gotten any review at all from Midwest Book Review, which is a prestigious outfit. I would not have gotten a review from Christopher Ryan, co-author of the nonfiction book Sex at Dawn. And I would not have gotten a review from Alan Soble, an academic who’s one of the founders of “the philosophy of sex.” Not only did the book get reviews from these people, they were highly favorable reviews. (You can see them, and others, in the “Hotwifing: The Book” thread in the HW Forum.)

I wasn’t trying to preach to the converted. I wasn’t trying to preach at all, let alone to win converts. The first phrase in the subtitle is “Whether to Try It.” That was not a subtle come-on. I meant it seriously. I wanted the presentation to be objective, so people could make up their own minds. Perhaps above all, I wanted people to look before they made the leap. (Longtime readers of the HW Forum are familiar with several threads about hotwifing that went badly awry, and even ended marriages.) True, I did say that hotwifing (and wittolry) can work quite well, and has worked quite well for many couples. But even that was largely for the purpose of getting readers to see that this is not some crazy fringe practice, and can be a legitimate part of a couple’s erotic life and the deepening of their love for each other.

This is especially important re. mental health professionals. So far, they’ve nearly all been downright HOSTILE to hotwifing. Even when they’re being charitable, they say—with rare exceptions, such as David Ley, discussed below, or Dr. Susan Block (who also provided a highly favorable review)—that hotwifing is neurotic at best, and whoever wants it or does it and likes it is badly in need of “counseling.”

A book that beats the drum for hotwifing would have no effect on them. Their response would be: “This is just something by someone who is so obviously deeply into this that he/she also is badly in need of therapy.” I was trying to get these people to open their eyes, to not be so dismissive—even contemptuous—of something that they themselves don’t do, don’t want to do…and don’t want others to do.

Our Sexuality is the leading college textbook on human sexuality, now in its 12th edition. One of its two authors is a psychotherapist. I’m quite sure that my book’s tone and approach had a lot to do with why hotwifing will be RESPECTFULLY discussed in the forthcoming 13th edition (next spring), and why the authors include a citation to my book. That is a huge achievement, if I may say so: it puts hotwifing on the map for serious discussions of sexual relationships.

That brings me to Chapter 12, “For Christians and Jews with a Strict Religious Code re. Extramarital Sex.” And it was quite a surprise to see that Tangled Triangle regarded that, too, as “generally superfluous.” (The co-authors of Our Sexuality, in contrast, thought it was especially illuminating, if I remember right.)

Those who’ve been following the postings on this board for any length of time know that one of the most common objections a wife has to taking up hotwifing is religious: “forsaking all others.” Even many who’ve long been hotwives have strongly mixed feelings about “betraying” their wedding vows. And even though many people no longer regard themselves as religiously devout, the moral thinking of probably 95% of us was largely shaped by religious doctrine----especially as to sex. (Even most of the mental health profession’s theories about “proper sexual attitudes and behavior” is derived from Christian and Jewish scripture. That’s why, until the most recent edition of the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, homosexuality was listed as a mental disorder in need of “cure”...via therapy, of course.) And many of the PMs and e-mails I get, from men and women, express concern on religious grounds about hotwifing.

So, Chapter 12 set out to show that “what’s in the Bible” arguably does not mean what so many say it means. If you look at the words, they are open to other interpretations. I speculated as to those other interpretations. As George Gershwin wrote in his opera Porgy & Bess: “I take the Bible whenever it’s poss’ble, but it ain’t necessarily so.”

Tangled Triangle may well have long since worked through the typical hang-ups caused by religious dogma, but many, many people are still deeply troubled, because of religious doctrine, about hotwifing. Chapter 12 is for them. And I’m disappointed Tangled Triangle apparently was unconcerned at their anxiety.

I assume he had his own reasons for not also saying that chapters 8 and 9 were generally superfluous—although he states, “all of Section 4 is pretty much worthless for most of the audience….” (Ellipsis supplied.) I assume he meant to say Section 3, because that’s Chapters 7 through 10. (Chapter 10 is discussed below.) I certainly hope he did not MEAN to say Section “4,” as Section 4 (which is “Reasons Against [Hotwifing]”) includes two chapters that are among the most important in the book: Chapter 11, “Fear of Latent Homosexuality,” and Chapter 13, “Why (Some) Women Hesitate to become Hotwives. (Chapter 12, discussed above, is also in Part 4. So perhaps Tangled Triangle did indeed mean to say “Section 4.” In what immediately follows, I shall assume he instead meant Part 3, however.)

Chapter 8 is “Hotwifing in Film;” Chapter 9, “Hotwifing in Literature.” Those chapters were in there for the same reason as Chapter 7: to set the record straight. For example, the mental health profession’s term for sharing one’s woman is sometimes “Troilism.” And sometimes it’s said that’s from Shakespeare’s play Troilus and Cressida. But the play has nothing to do with sharing one’s woman. (The usual term the mental health professionals use is “Candaulism.” The book discusses King Candaules—a.k.a. Myrsilos—as arguably the first known historical figure to favor what might be called PROTO-hotwifing.) I think it helps those who discuss hotwifing to be on solid ground as to their literary and historical allusions. (That’s why Part Three is called “Facts & Ficitons.”)

As Chapter 8 makes clear, there are only two films about hotwifing that present it in a positive light. Most either are not about hotwifing at all, really, or else present it in a very negative light. (Even one of the two that presents it in a positive light ends up reversing itself at the end.) And as Chapter 9 makes clear, there has never been a LITERARY work that presents hotwifing in a positive light. (Jasmine Haynes’s most recent novels and novellas do present hotwifing in a positive light. But they’re “popular fiction” in the eyes of the Literary Establishment, and thus not taken seriously.) I was trying to render a service, to set readers straight that so much that’s touted about being about “hotwifing” is in fact either not about it at all or else is quite negative. I wanted to help them save their money and their time.

For example, Howard Jacobson’s novel, The Act of Love, was marketed as a novel about hotwifing. (The title “Act of Love”—and the basis for the plot—was apparently taken from a play by Joyce that Chapter 9 discusses.) It wasn’t. It was about a very twisted husband who wanted to play some very sick games with his wife. He manipulates her into what or might not have been an affair with a man he hates, which she thinks he knows nothing about. Then he reveals all. His wife and the “other man” are devastated; his wife leaves her husband, and dies without ever seeing him (or the “other man”) again. His business is ruined because he’s falling apart. The novel is a CAUTIONARY tale—in the old Hollywood film tradition of “If you break ‘the rules,’ here’s what’ll happen to you and your marriage!”)

PERSONAL ATTACKS?

Speaking of misrepresentation: Chapter 10 is “A Misbegotten Effort,” which was indeed a scathing review of David Ley’s book, Insatiable Wives. I felt much the same way about Ley’s book as about Jacobson’s novel. It was tantamount to consumer fraud. And I felt obliged to alert others to what I still regard as a “bait and switch.” I do not see that as being at all superfluous, which Tangled Triangle claims it is.

Tangled appears to be saying “If you can’t say something good, don’t say anything at all.” But when an author does a book—or a writer does an article, or a politician gives a speech—he or she is injecting his or her ideas and arguments into the public discourse. It hardly seems fair for someone to take the attitude of “I’m putting this out here, but it isn’t ‘professional’ for anyone to analyze it...unless his or her response is favorable.”

Again, I felt I was doing a service to my readers, and even felt I owed it to them in the interest of completeness. For one thing, the cover price of Ley’s book was $34 (it was only in hard cover then, not paperback). Even with the Amazon discount, it was pricey. For another—and more important—it was touted as “the first book on hotwifing.” It wasn’t. There was hardly anything at all about hotwifing in it. It was a confused mishmash of all sorts of things. As Tangled Triangle noted, “I also read that book…and dismissed it after having high hopes from its covers….” (Ellipses added.) So he too apparently felt victimized by a “bait and switch.” Perhaps he did not mind the wasted money and time he spent on it. But I felt certain that others might, so I let them know what they’d be getting (and not getting) for their investment in it.

No need to rehash my criticisms of Ley’s book here. But the reason I spent an entire chapter on it was that it would not have been fair just to make a negative comment in passing. For readers to be able to evaluate my critique, I had to present all the “evidence”—Ley’s words, and my analysis.

So, I don’t understand why Tangled Triangle took me to task for “an unprofessional and unbecoming rant against another author’s work.” Apparently he believes I should have just taken a “live and let live” attitude, and said nothing about it at all.

But that would have made no sense. I don’t see how I could have credibility as a researcher had I not even mentioned Ley’s book. But then, having mentioned it, it would have been misleading for me to let it go at that, because many would assume that the mention was a tacit endorsement. Nor do I see that laying out all the evidence for my negative evaluation of his book was “a rant.” To me, a rant is purely emotional, illogical, not based on reason or facts. And Tangled did say “Granted, Alston’s dissection and points about [Ley’s] book were 100% spot on, no argument there at all.”

Tangled also criticizes me as follows: “The one passage Alston did cite as positive was in fact the only golden nugget in [Ley’s] book, but that was still somewhat gratuitous at best.” I don’t understand how that was at all “gratuitous.” What Tangled called the “only golden nugget” (which I quoted in full) in Ley’s book was quite golden indeed. But it wasn’t the only one. I quoted a lengthy passage from Mark Twain’s book, Letters from the Earth, that had been presented in Ley’s book. I’d heard of the Twain book, but never knew what it was about. Twain’s passage is wonderful. And I went out of my way to thank Ley for including it in HIS book. I was trying desperately not to be totally negative. That’s why I make it such a point to end that chapter on a positive note about him. (By the way: I delayed finishing my book for a year, after I heard that his was in the works. Had it been what I was hoping it would be, I would never have finished mine. There would have been no need for it.)

Query: if it was wrong of me to criticize Ley’s book, why didn’t Tangled Triangle just point that out and move on? Instead, he too criticizes it. So why is it okay for him to do so, but not for me? Is it solely because his criticisms were only online, rather than in a printed book? If so, why is the one acceptable and not the other? Does an author get automatic immunity from criticism in other authors’ books? If so, why?

Here’s my position: hotwifing is dismissed as whacko or sick by most “vanilla” people. So, it’s important for anyone trying to get some respectability for it to present the best possible evidence and reasoning. Ley didn’t do that. Tangled Triangle said “[W]e don’t need authors bashing and attempting to discredit each other in their formal published works at an attempt to bolster their own credibility.” However, given that Ley’s book was touted as the first book on hotwifing, but in fact had almost nothing to do with hotwifing, I again would argue that criticizing it so thoroughly was called for. I fancy it contributes to a better-informed discussion of hotwifing, and thus to a better understanding of it.

Make no mistake: Ley is one of the good guys. He certainly means well. But with “friends” like that, hotwifing is done a disservice. If Ley wasn’t going to try to do the job right, he shouldn’t have undertaken the task at all. I quoted Shakespeare’s play, King Lear, in this regard: “We are not the first who with best meaning have incurred the worst.” (I’m quoting from memory, and might not have gotten that completely right.)

Moving on: what I simply do not understand is Tangled Triangle’s dismissal of the addendum to chapter 10 as being part of the alleged “rant.” The addendum is “A Contrarian Interpretation of Famous Experiments in Psychology.” It didn’t even mention Ley or his book. And I speculated that the results of those famous experiments shed light on the hotwifing phenomenon. That’s all. No grandiose theory, no extravagant claims, let alone an “unprofessional and unbecoming rant against another author’s work.” If you choose to get and read the book, though, you can decide for yourself.

AMATEUR PSYCHOANALYSIS

I am grateful for Tangle’s (many highly) favorable comments about my book. That hardly gives him license to take shots below the belt, though. For example, “I am seeing a subtle pattern of paranoia unfolding and I sincerely mean that as constructive advice to [Alston].” He offers as evidence my criticism of Ley’s book. Ley’s book came out before mine, and I did heavily criticize it. I don’t see how that can be called “paranoia” at all. But I’ve already given my reasons, above, for my criticism.

(Also by the way: Ley’s new book, The Myth of Sex Addiction, is very good, vastly better than his first. I highly recommend it—and posted my enthusiasm for it on the HW forum months ago.)

Tangled also said I’m paranoid because I noted at the end of my critique of his “compersion” posting that it read like material from a book in progress. I just don’t see how that’s “paranoid.” Tangled said he’s a former professional writer, of several books. So it makes sense that what he’d written sounded like something from a book in progress—even if in fact he was not writing it for a book in progress. True, he states “how I write informally in these forums is entirely different from the way I write for publication, which is highly structured and formal….” (Ellipsis added.) No doubt his writings for publication were/are different from his postings. But that hardly means I’m wrong to say that his material read like something from a book in progress. (It’s odd for a former professional writer to think he can just “switch off” skill acquired over years.) I don’t see why my comment was taken as an attack, rather than as a compliment.

True, I said I would not give a favorable review to what I thought was his book in progress, but again, that hardly makes me “paranoid.” This prospective lack of favor has to do with his discussion of “compersion,” which I’ll (finally) get to now.

COMPERSION

Tangled Triangle was displeased at my comment that “compersion” has a New Age ring to it.

Well, here’s what Wikipedia says, in part: “[The concept “compersion”] was originally coined by the now defunct Kerista Commune in San Francisco.” Under “Kerista Commune,” Wikipedia says this, in part: “Kerista was a new religion that was started in 1956…. [Note: a new RELIGION...and note too the similarity between “Kerista” and “Christ.”] Throughout much of its history, Kerista was centered on the ideals of polyfidelity and creation of [‘]intentional communities[’]. Kerista underwent several incarnations that later became known as the ‘Old Tribe,’ which was associated with a fairly large, but fluid membership. What was called the ‘New Tribe,’ a period of more stable membership and ideology, began in 1971 based in the Haight Ashbury district of San Francisco.”

It’s hard to get more New Age than that—unless the concept had instead originated at Esalen.

Yes, I’m highly skeptical of just about anything associated with New Age stuff. But more important, so is just about everyone else.

Put it in context: hotwifing is little known (unlike, say, swinging or open marriage). The media already seem to go out of their way (when they cover it, which is rare) to sensationalize it. They conflate it with “cuckoldry,” which involves the man’s abject humiliation by his own woman—as the media present it, anyway. So, anyone who’s trying to get hotwifing taken seriously (as I do with the book), has an uphill fight already.

So now, Tangled Triangle wants to put “compersion” at the very center of hotwifing—to, in effect, associate it with polyamory, open marriage, etc.. There’s nothing wrong with hotwife husbands using that concept to express their attitude—just as there’s nothing wrong with polyamory, open marriage, etc.. But it seems counter-productive as a way of trying to gain a fair hearing with a mainstream audience. In fact, it seems to make the task all the more arduous. As soon as vanilla people and the media hear about “compersion,” and realize that its origins are in a New Age counterculture commune in the California, they’ll roll their eyes, smirk—and dismiss the whole thing as just so much nonsense of a “deviant” sub-culture.

But regardless of its origin, if the concept is truly helpful, who cares?

Here’s Wikipedia’s definition: “Compersion is a state of empathetic happiness and joy experienced when an individual's current or former romantic partner experiences happiness and joy through an outside source, including, but not limited to, another romantic interest. This can be experienced as any form of erotic or emotional empathy, depending on the person experiencing the emotion.”

Perhaps the book Opening Up (which Tangled recommends—see below) presents a different definition. I don’t know, because the copy I ordered hasn’t arrived yet. But even if it does, is the book’s definition privileged?

Regardless, what does this definition add to the understanding of hotwifing? Nothing. The feeling and attitude behind it are what many a hotwife husband and cuckold/wittold has spoken of. “Compersion” merely creates a specific term of jargon for it. Besides—assuming Wikipedia got it right----the woman [in hotwifing] experiences “happiness and joy” (which is redundant) through an “outside source,” which can include another “romantic” interest. But the “outside source” might also have nothing whatsoever to do with sex—which is obviously what Wikipedia is euphemistically referring to. Hotwifing, in contrast, definitely concerns the wife’s extramarital SEX.

Again, I ask, what does this add to the understanding of “hotwifing”? I just don’t see that it adds anything at all. On the contrary, it muddies the discussion.

So, even if I had no objections to New Age “philosophy,” I would still argue that there’s no need to complicate the discussion of hotwifing by putting “compersion” at its core. A concept from legitimate philosophy should be invoked: “Occam’s razor.”

Further, given the way Tangled Triangle’s original posting established a hierarchy of purity as to compersion, embracing the concept is an invitation to all sorts of doctrinal disputes as to just what is, and is not—and who is, and is not—“compersive” (the adjectival form of “compersion”).

In my response to Tangled’s first posting, I noted the difference between the approach of Plato and that of Aristotle. Plato was arguably the first Western philosopher to create a Grand Schema. He posited the existence of unseen Forms that are a “higher reality” than what we perceive as reality. His approach was deductive: with theory primary, real-world facts secondary. Aristotle took the opposite approach: inductive—facts first, develop theories from factual patterns later. (Aristotle is thus the ultimate ancestor of the scientific method.)

Tangled Triangle says he has vast experience in sex. He’s “been there, done that”—all of it. So, maybe he too would claim to be basing his theory on facts. However, psychologists are well aware of two mistakes theorists often make. The first is “selective perception,” in which they see only what they want to see. Tunnel vision. The other is related to it: “confirmation bias.” They interpret facts in a way that fits their theory. Other possible interpretations are ignored or else explained away. I think that trying to fit hotwifing under “compersion” is an example of that. While “compersion” certainly explains at least part of hotwife husband’s attitude, it’s hardly the alpha and omega of hotwifing.

I noted that I was firmly in the Aristotelian camp. I was content to catalogue such things as obvious reasons some men want their women to take up hotwifing (Chapter 5), reasons some women do take up hotwifing (Chapter 4), and problems that can arise (Chapter 23). To me, it seems highly presumptuous to subject males to a Grand Theory that evaluates their purity based on their degree of “compersion,” and to tell them that compersion is the solution to jealousy. Compersion (and Tangled’s apparent theories about jealousy, discussed below) are inherently Platonic.

As I said in the Foreword, “Not being an expert, my goal is modest: to distill the collected wisdom of others’ experience and research, to cover every major topic on hotwifing, and to organize the material into a one-stop go-to reference manual of sorts. I’ve also taken the liberty of offering my own thoughts (for what they’re worth to you).” That’s it.

TANGLED’S REFERENCES—OPENING UP, and THE ETHICAL SLUT

Tangled Triangle takes me to task for not having read these two books (or at least certain chapters in them), which he says are crucial to understanding hotwifing itself. “I am aghast, horrified, and disappointed [Cody Alston] hasn’t read them (or only started one of them) after having done 10 years of research….” “Aghast”? “Horrified”? Jeez.

I’ve long been aware of “compersion.” For reasons stated above, I see no merit to including it in a discussion of hotwifing. (I’ll present further arguments against it, below.) Although I was indeed not even aware of the existence of Opening Up, it would have made no difference had I been, again for reasons stated above (and below).

Further, while I was researching and writing the book, several people (including members of the HW Forum) read chapters from Hotwifing, in manuscript. And several people suggested books for me to read. I got and read them all. In all the years of my research, not once was there mention of Opening Up: not in e-mails to me, or private chats, or IM conversations, and not in any posting that I ever saw. I got The Ethical Slut because there were favorable mentions of it in postings from time to time, but no one I was in touch with ever recommended it. (I’ll discuss that book, below.)

JEALOUSY v. COMPERSION

Tangled Triangle was distressed that Chapter 22 (“Feelings: Before, During, and After”) presents quotations with “no analysis or even opinion.”

The “no analysis or even opinion” (from me) was intentional. In fact, that was the whole point. I wanted, with that chapter (and also Chapters 1 and 24), to let readers see at length (especially in Chapter 22) what people had to say in their own words, so readers could reach their own conclusions without directives from me. I did not want to come across as a know-it-all who took anything and everything and always made pronouncements on it. That’s why (with rare exceptions) I didn’t add my own thoughts to what was in those chapters.

What’s ironic about this is that several people who’ve contacted me have said those were their favorite chapters—for reasons just stated. I even got a complaint or two that I should have included far more such material.

Just goes to show: you can’t please everybody. Tangled Triangle apparently found Chapter 22 worthless, and maddening. So be it.

He makes much of my alleged neglect of (male) jealousy as a key factor in hotwifing/cuckoldry. For Tangled Triangle, it’s always a negative factor, apparently. I disagree, on both counts. At many points, I discussed the “strongly mixed emotions”—including jealousy—that hotwifing evokes. This was especially so in Chapter 23 (“Major Hazards”).

Evidently Tangled Triangle wanted me to discuss jealousy (and compersion) at great length, as part of some sort of “philosophy of hotwifing.” It might well be that I should have included a discussion for husbands on “how to deal with your jealousy.” But I did note that the major threat husbands feel is the sense of a loss of control, of being left out. And I spoke of how, with sensitivity, honesty, transparency, and self-control on the part of the wife, the husband will feel reassured and thus the negative emotions subside in favor of the positive ones.

I saw no need to go into a lengthy discussion myself. I still don’t. And I certainly am not going to make a hasty generalization that the desire for hotwifing/cuckoldry is solely motivated by jealousy…though Tangled Triangle is convinced it always is. I cited Nancy Friday’s book, Jealousy, for those who wanted to delve deeply into a discussion.

Tangled states: “I was really disappointed there wasn’t a chapter devoted to a full discussion of jealousy as it is at the root of male motivation for so many males in Hotwifing.” As evidence, he then says “All one has to ask is [‘W]hy does it have to be your wife and not some other random woman?[’] in every instance…. Inevitably it…[is] rooted in these subcomponents.”

I don’t see that as proof at all. Rather, it strikes me as circular reasoning. Further, unless he’s stretching the definition of “jealousy” far beyond my understanding of the word, the fact that hotwifing inherently means sharing one’s OWN woman does not necessarily implicate jealousy at all, as the motivator. As Chapter 5 showed, there are many possible motivations.

Further, this: as I noted, the excitement jealousy induces is often one of the very things that hotwife husbands savor most. (It’s sort of like teenagers who love to go to horror movies, or people who love to read Stephen King’s horror novels. The “fear,” the insecurity, is often part of the thrill.) I don’t see anything wrong with that. What counts is what works for a given couple. If a husband thrills to jealousy, more power to him—as long as his jealousy does not become counter-productive to the hotwifing (though Tangled believe it inevitably does).

MY GENDER

Tangled states “[A]fter a full reading am 100% thoroughly convinced that Cody Alston (pen name) is female. I can go on at length about why I feel certain of that beyond a shadow of a doubt due to pattens I have learned over many years in the publishing industry, and computers are wonderful things.”

I will not rise to the bait on that. As soon as I disclosed my gender, other criticisms would start. If I say I’m male, people would demand to know if I’m a hotwife husband, a cuckold, or an “other man.” If I say I’m female, people would demand to know if I’m a hotwife or a cuckoldress. And then there would be a barrage of questions about what I’ve done and haven’t done, how long I’ve been at it, etc.. As I’ve repeatedly said, I want the focus to be on the message, not the messenger.

Tangled is in good company, by the way. The co-founders of this board, Inigo and Agatha Montoya, are both convinced I’m a hotwife. (In contrast, allengt---who was also quite involved in the founding of this board and is its new owner---is convinced I’m male.)

But Tangled Triangle then says “I feel that this also explains why, as a female, Alston cannot experience the deeper male psychology of what my original post is about….” Later, he says that my “Six Keys to Success in Hotwifing or Cuckoldry/Wittolry” (Chapter 18) are “exactly what a woman would emphasize from a non-male perspective.”

I think it’s sexist of him to assume that if I’m a woman, that means I don’t understand the male psyche. I believe most women would quickly assert that almost any woman understands the male psyche better than almost any man does. But as we’ll see below, his campaign on behalf of The Ethical Slut evinces a projection onto women of the male psyche—along with a tacit encouragement for a woman to be “more like a man.”

If his initial assumption (actually, presumption) is wrong, the entire analysis based on it is wrong. But regardless, he might be right as to my gender. I’m not saying. But his own conclusion is merely that: his own conclusion, based on the flimsiest of evidence and reasoning. It is not conclusive, but merely conclusory. And even if he’s right as to my gender, that hardly means his renewed amateur psychoanalysis based on that is correct.

IT’S ABOUT THE COUPLE

And this brings me to one of my biggest criticisms of compersion. As presented by Tangled Triangle, compersion is, in effect, a noble sacrifice a man makes with regard to the woman he wants to share. It’s one-way. No similar argument is presented on behalf of women, because to Tangled, apparently only the male in a hotwifing/wittolry relationship can feel compersion. (In polyamory, swinging, and open marriage, in contrast, the sharing and “compersion” are two-way, of course.)

This leads to a tacit assumption that “It’s all about HER, and HER happiness.” I debunked that in Hotwifing. If it were really all about her, and her happiness, husbands would rarely be the prime movers in getting their wives into hotwifing. It would be the other way around. There very clearly is something in it for the husband: something very big—so much so that many husbands spoil it all by nagging and pressuring their wives to the point where the wife is permanently turned off by the very idea. (Other would-be hotwife husbands have prodded patiently for DECADES.)

Yet, from his discussion of The Ethical Slut, it’s clear Tangled Triangle believes that what hotwifing is about is “being sexually independent—especially for women, is something to embrace and of which not be shameful [?], but proud like men are ‘studs’.”

Three things wrong with that:

First, the husband in a hotwifing relationship is not “sexually independent.” Unlike the other forms of wife-sharing (open marriage, polyamory, swinging), hotwifing is unique in that it’s a reversal of the old double standard. Now, she does, he doesn’t; she can, he can’t. With rare exception, a wife does not agree to share her husband with other women just because she is a hotwife. In fact, perhaps the most common reason a wife objects to taking up hotwifing is she fears her husband has the ulterior motive of wanting to use her hotwifing as the excuse/justification for being with other women. And nearly all who are hotwives say “If he wants me to share him, I’ll quit hotwifing.”

Second, the overwhelming majority of hotwives evidently do not see themselves as the female equivalent of the male “stud.” Of course there are exceptions. You can see them in postings in the HW Forum. But as Chapter 23 in my book noted, once hotwifing is underway the biggest hazard is that a wife’s newfound power—yes, power—can go to her head and cause her to become insensitive to her husband’s feelings. (Hence several of my “Six Keys to Success in Hotwifing or Cuckoldry/Wittolry,” which Tangled Triangle dismissed so cavalierly.)

Third, the overwhelming majority of hotwives evidently see their hotwifing as part of a process for getting even closer EMOTIONALLY to their husbands. Yes, hotwifing nearly always perks up the COUPLE’S sex life, not just the wife’s. But even so, the prime motivation for a wife to stay in hotwifing is nearly always that her sexcapades with other men bring her closer to her husband emotionally than the couple has ever been before. They also tend to be far more honest with each other, more caring, etc.. (Again, my “Six Keys.”)

Yet, Tangled Triangle apparently sees hotwifing only as a quest for a wife to become “more like a man”—a female equivalent of a skirt-chaser, really.

Yes, he (inexplicably, to me) says that I “skimmed over” ethical behavior. Good Lord. He of course is not aware of how much flak I’ve received for saying that a hotwife should not play around with married men because in doing so she is possibly contributing to the demise of another woman’s marriage and to the breakup of someone else’s family—with the well-known long-term harmful effects divorce has on children. And how can my “keys to success” such as Honesty, Trust, Transparency, Self-Control, and Sensitivity NOT be seen as INHERENTLY moral in nature? Beats me.

And he misses the biggest point of all: it’s nearly always the potential hotwife who has the final say-so as to whether a couple takes up hotwifing, how often they engage in it, and how long it lasts in their lives. As a rule, the husbands are so “hot to trot” that they want it all “yesterday.” But as my book emphasizes again and again, a woman’s sensibilities in this matter are quite different—for reasons not worth repeating here. Perhaps that’s why Tangled Triangle is convinced that I am female.

Regardless, as nearly all hotwife husbands and cuckolds/wittols will attest, even getting her to agree to try a hotwifing experience requires an appreciation that goes far beyond the limited thought process involved when a MALE is horny. And that, ultimately, is why I wrote the book the way I did, and included—and excluded—the things I did.

I was not interested in developing a crackpot philosophy of hotwifing that would have no more value that Hugh Hefner’s so-called “Playboy Philosophy,” on which he wrote extensively—and sophomorically (I would say “sophomoronically”).

There is something very, very deep at work in the human psyche with regard to hotwifing and cuckoldry/wittolry. I don’t know what it is, though I have some hunches. By writing the book in such a way as to try to get mental health professionals to take hotwifing seriously, I hope the day will come when solid research is done to try to solve the mystery of hotwifing. For it is a mystery, really.

IN CONCLUSION

I am well aware that Tangled Triangle says many very nice things about my book. Yet, I constantly had the feeling that his praise was like Mark Antony’s funeral oration for Julius Caesar, in Shakespeare’s play of that name----the part where he speaks, with heavy irony, of Brutus and Cassius and says “So are the all, all honorable men.”

No doubt he and others will say this reply has been quite harsh. Perhaps so. But what came through to me in Tangled Triangle’s critique was this: “Hotwifing is a great book—but the author gets it all wrong as to the most important aspects of hotwifing.” Those are not his words. They’re what I think is, in sum, the “bottom line” of his appraisal. He did say this: “[E]xperienced folks explore the deeper aspects [of hotwifing] and seek a deeper, more fundamental understanding than others [who] prefer to stay on the surface or just don’t have enough experience to know or want to be self-introspective.” I think many who are in hotwifing would not appreciate such one-upmanship (as it were) re. others.

I’ll stick with the Aristotelian approach, and let others take Plato’s role.

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