Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[XYAlpha]

Wow Fish!
A sudden HW declaration.
It most certainly sounds like they have discussed this plan in detail - perhaps even the part of her ass being excluded from your access.
Are you OK with that decision?

What about if blowjobs are next?

Then intercourse?

Be careful of the precedents you allow. You are already struggling with her starting her HW'ing with extreme radio silence on her trips away. She still does not share.

It is just my opinion but to me you are at a crossroads. She wants it now - perhaps a great deal. This may be your only opportunity to make the deal to either have the overall HW experience be that which you desire, be a Cuck, or stop altogether.

IMO you are on the road to Cuck. If that is how the adventure is going - and you are OK with that then full speed ahead. To each their own - OF COURSE!

But the way I read the description of your desire - what turns you on about the LS, being excluded access to your wife and the secrecy, not sharing, and the perceived encounter with the Trainer is not congruent with how I understood your description.

Have I missed a change in your direction?

XY

[Aureus]

Maybe now would be a good time to start anal training with her and have her wear the buttplugs regularly you got some time ago. Wouldn't it be hot to train her for his dick?

[slenderfish]

Wow Fish!
A sudden HW declaration.
It most certainly sounds like they have discussed this plan in detail - perhaps even the part of her ass being excluded from your access.
Are you OK with that decision?

What about if blowjobs are next?

Then intercourse?

Be careful of the precedents you allow. You are already struggling with her starting her HW'ing with extreme radio silence on her trips away. She still does not share.

It is just my opinion but to me you are at a crossroads. She wants it now - perhaps a great deal. This may be your only opportunity to make the deal to either have the overall HW experience be that which you desire, be a Cuck, or stop altogether.

IMO you are on the road to Cuck. If that is how the adventure is going - and you are OK with that then full speed ahead. To each their own - OF COURSE!

But the way I read the description of your desire - what turns you on about the LS, being excluded access to your wife and the secrecy, not sharing, and the perceived encounter with the Trainer is not congruent with how I understood your description.

Have I missed a change in your direction?

XY

Good question. It's actually the other way around. I'm trying to figure out Pinky's buttons, what she responds to. She doesn't like anal so I figured if I tease the power play concept, then I can see how it plays out. And in the meantime jump on any momentum that is created, for my benefit. She and I haven't been doing anal (except in super rare instances) in recent years, so I'm not giving anything up. And if she decides she likes it, then all the better for everyone.

To wit: I just completed booking her flights and hotel for the trip. She was appreciative and (like 5 min ago) committed to doing vids/pics if at all possible. I reiterated my assurance that if she couches the request as "for her pleasuring herself" then he as a man will go right for it because a) men are visual so it easily computes and b) he will almost certainly go for it if he is also able to have copies of the vids/pics for himself. Am I wrong on this assurance to her?

I will clarify to her that the denial element does not turn me on, but if it turns her on, we should discuss.

I believe it is the naughtiness that is catching her imagination. I expect we will find out!

BTW I don't think the trainer thing has actually happened. My thoughts went down that road, and I'll keep a keen eye on that, but as of now I'm on the side of the line where she has not crossed any sexual boundaries. As she settles more into her hotwife activities (including the upcoming trip) perhaps she will want to expand. In the meantime, she continues to be more forthcoming and communicative as a hotwife based on our recent conversations. I want to support, encourage and reward this more open approach.

[solstice]

This is such a battle of wills, and it is hard to conclude the outcome, you seem to reach an understanding and then SW has a bout of amnesia and you are back to a state of impasse. You are a man of infinite patience, and a better man than me when it comes to negotiation, I would be tearing my hair by now.

[slenderfish]

In essence you are grounding her like you would a uncooperative teenager. But like a teenager you can't give in or her behavior will just get worse.
Once you get her on track, she'll love you even more and thank you for being strong.
IMHO.

Thank you for reading the entire story. Quite an investment of time.

Thanks also for the above. I know at some level Pinky is calling for more control, but it's not been my way so will be taken poorly. There is a time for a carrot and a time for a stick. We're back on the carrot for now.

I'll note I started showing a more limiting side a couple of weeks ago, for many reasons including to see her response, when I put a limit on a credit card that's tied to my high-limit (no limit?) account. I actually expressed to her the reference of a teenage girl acting out and seemingly asking for someone to put a curb on her behavior, with respect to her overuse of the card. I was both surprised and pleased when she took it in stride and did not overreact.

[Parsifal]

In essence you are grounding her like you would a uncooperative teenager. But like a teenager you can't give in or her behavior will just get worse.
Once you get her on track, she'll love you even more and thank you for being strong.
IMHO.

Thank you for reading the entire story. Quite an investment of time.

Thanks also for the above. I know at some level Pinky is calling for more control, but it's not been my way so will be taken poorly. There is a time for a carrot and a time for a stick. We're back on the carrot for now.

I'll note I started showing a more limiting side a couple of weeks ago, for many reasons including to see her response, when I put a limit on a credit card that's tied to my high-limit (no limit?) account. I actually expressed to her the reference of a teenage girl acting out and seemingly asking for someone to put a curb on her behavior, with respect to her overuse of the card. I was both surprised and pleased when she took it in stride and did not overreact.

Let me offer this perspective on the parent-child dynamic because it played out that way for a while in my marriage. My wife was indulged as a child but still rebelled, and part of the sexual turn on of hotwifing for her is the "naughtiness," or rebelliousness aspect to it. I realized that it was counterproductive for us as a couple for me to play the role of the scolding, repressive parent in this dynamic because ultimately I didn't want her to use the practice of extramarital sex as a form of rebellion against me as parent. If she needs to set up her sexual dynamic as a fight against parental repression (which is really an internal fight against her own punitive super ego), then it is far better for your marriage not to become manipulated into taking on the father role. I'm not sure how I was able to shake my wife out of the rebellious phase we went through, but miraculously it happened. Certainty we brought it into consciousness, a la talk therapy, with several conversations along the lines of me affirmatively wanting to be a soul mate that spanned both sides of her inner conflict and rebellion against her own upbringing and me as an ally rather than antagonist. There's a lot more to it but this may give you some ideas for a more productive synthesis of the conflict.

[slenderfish]

I'm not sure how I was able to shake my wife out of the rebellious phase we went through, but miraculously it happened. Certainty we brought it into consciousness, a la talk therapy, with several conversations along the lines of me affirmatively wanting to be a soul mate that spanned both sides of her inner conflict and rebellion against her own upbringing and me as an ally rather than antagonist. There's a lot more to it but this may give you some ideas for a more productive synthesis of the conflict.

This is quite close to where I believe we stand. Long before we started the hotwife effort, I have been navigating this conflict of hers and jumping from the lover/friend over to the guy that has to lay down the law. I believe that ultimately the soul mate solution is where we are headed, and that we are on the precipice in that the hotwife experience is another place where she can see that a deeper level of trust, commitment and sharing is possible and ultimately more rewarding. This is the premise upon which I laid out the challenge to her, which then opened the door to the hotwife desire/conversation.

To be clear, I don't look to hotwifing to be any solution, but just another layer of demonstrating the value of mutual trust, full honesty, etc.

[slenderfish]

How long were her conversations with Mr. M?

No mention of the trainer, I take it?

No mention of the trainer. I do believe she hasn't actually done that yet. She was training with him today (her usual pattern Wed and Fri).

Mr. M it turns out were not conversations but her leaving voicemails. He hasn't replied, according to Pinky.

She has now started her usual "perhaps Mr. S doesn't even want to see me" lead-up self-talk. It's kind of nice to know how the cycles go, now that we have a bit of history.

[afagehi7]

Mr M and S are nuts. They should be working hard to get her into bed. I guess Mr S is hot enough he doesn't have to but I can't believe Mr M is not courting her.

1. Was the anal talk just hot pillow talk or under serious consideration?
2. What does she think you can't handle?

[slenderfish]

Mr M and S are nuts. They should be working hard to get her into bed. I guess Mr S is hot enough he doesn't have to but I can't believe Mr M is not courting her.

1. Was the anal talk just hot pillow talk or under serious consideration?
2. What does she think you can't handle?

I agree these guys are nuts. Mr. S is into himself more than Pinky, but of course he must at this point know that she will respond once he makes any sort of effort. That's been demonstrated enough by now. Mr. M is very provincial in his attitude and approach to life and women, apparently, and can't handle this new Pinky.

As for your questions:

1) Last night she said she "can't be sure it'll happen with Mr. S" and I took that to mean her photographing or videoing. When I told her she shouldn't fret and just look for the opportunity if it arises, she corrected me and said she can't be sure about the anal. She then followed up with her thinking that she may not even get together with him or if she does, they may not have sex. I attribute this to her usual cycle of doubt when she points to his lack of ongoing attention during the in-between times. So I just said she should play it as it comes and I'm sure his proven desire will take care of it all.

2) My take on this is that she does not yet fully trust herself, and by extension me, to fully acknowledge and share her thoughts and feelings about hotwifing and the guys, etc. She continues with the internal struggle, but I'll note she also seems to be finding progress that she doesn't yet realize.

[BallSpanking]

It would not be unusual for SW to have qualms during a prolonged period of distance from Mr S, but I would not bet on her assessment that next time they met there may not even be any sex involved. Possible, but unlikely.

As to the 'anal' question, there may be some very legitimate reasons for SW's reluctance to take Mr S up her rectum, particularly if he is large. That could easily ruin her enjoyment and is understandably a strong reason for concern.

[slenderfish]

It would not be unusual for SW to have qualms during a prolonged period of distance from Mr S, but I would not bet on her assessment that next time they met there may not even be any sex involved. Possible, but unlikely.

I say it is not possible. Past experience has shown that he merely needs to start his communicating and she's in (well, he's "in"), without hesitation.

As to the 'anal' question, there may be some very legitimate reasons for SW's reluctance to take Mr S up her rectum, particularly if he is large. That could easily ruin her enjoyment and is understandably a strong reason for concern.

Yes, this is an acknowledged consideration, by each of us and both of us. Especially if she does not prepare or practice in advance. At the same time, she and I did have a substantial anal period some years ago so she knows how to do this in a more pleasurable way for her.

[rncinmd]

hoping yall are having a good weekend. Is the birthday get together still planned? how goes the planning? will put in a request for more videos of her dancing.

[Parsifal]

I'm finding this Dipping Toe series so well done. I love the analytic treatment of the subject matter, she the Queen, SF the Rook. I sense a major plot shift in the works. The trainer maybe, with contrasting skin tones that bring her pole dance moves to mind. No longer toe dipping; now she's fully immersed.

[TheHammer]

Have you started the anal training?

[slenderfish]

Have you started the anal training?

It's ski season and I was away again this past weekend, returned home late last night. We have a "sex date" that was to happen last night if I returned early enough, but that had to be deferred.

She has her trainer today, I assume noon-ish. Does that make it a "nooner" or something?

[slenderfish]

hoping yall are having a good weekend. Is the birthday get together still planned? how goes the planning? will put in a request for more videos of her dancing.

Yes, I have to spend some time getting the details pulled together for Saturday night. I'm confident about the pole dancing as an element because Ms. M is coming into town from out of state for the party; she's the one who started the whole pole thing. Also attending is my friend Mr. E who was so interested in the pole being installed, he insisted on paying for half of the cost.

[slenderfish]

I'm finding this Dipping Toe series so well done. I love the analytic treatment of the subject matter, she the Queen, SF the Rook. I sense a major plot shift in the works. The trainer maybe, with contrasting skin tones that bring her pole dance moves to mind. No longer toe dipping; now she's fully immersed.

Thank you, I do enjoy writing it, and the feedback is certainly encouraging.

Also enjoying living it.

[il2sw]

I finally caught up with your thread, which I discovered about a month ago. I enjoy threads like yours that cover the journey into hotwifing. Thanks for taking the time to write in detail what happens and what you think. Oh, and the fact that your wife is a sexy gorgeous woman is definitely a good incentive to follow her evolution from wife to hotwife.

I suppose you haven’t read my story, so I wanted to share a few thought’s that perhaps might help you, at least by providing another perspective.

Right before Thanksgiving, you posted that you thought that SW was more of a slut that she lets on, and how you think she’d be fine being a hotwife once she’s ok with it in her mind, and how she’s a lady, lovely and beloved, but can have that wild side. All that resonated with me. I only learned about this a couple of years ago, but my wife was also a bit slutty when we started dating. I say that in the most positive way, as a sexually empowered woman who enjoys sex. After our communication became exponentially better as the journey into hotwifing progressed, she felt comfortable telling me about it. I asked her if she’d like to be fucked like that again, but in the security of our marriage, and she said she definitely would. So, if SW has a slutty past like you suspect, probably she would like to continue enjoying the benefits of being a hotwife, i.e., having the sexual freedom and variety she had when she was a single woman, but now with the security of being in a marriage with a husband who loves her. If that’s the case, that could be an incentive for her to work with you to make it work.

It seems that when you started with this fantasy and then opening up to her, you had an idea of what you wanted, including videos and threesomes. Well, many times the plan of the husband does not match what the woman eventually wants; there are several examples of that in this website. The reality is that without our wives doing it, we’d have no hotwives, so they have more power in this.

At one point, before my wife became full-fledged hotwife, she told me that if I wanted her to be a hotwife she didn’t want to have any rules; that I should not ask with whom she texted or what; that I would have to trust that she was not going to do anything to damage our relationship. She said that in order to be a hotwife she had to create some space between us; to have a piece of her world that was less about “us” and more about “her.” I know this goes against what many tell you, that this is a team sport and you need rules, so please hear me out.

I accepted her proposal, and that was probably one of the best decisions I’ve made in this journey. She eventually met a guy, they started dating and she became a hotwife. And here comes the part in which how things developed didn’t match how I had envisioned it. This guy was like her boyfriend. They texted or talked every day and even had some vanilla dates. She was not in love with him, but she needed that kind of personal relationship with him to have sex (well, actually she didn’t needed daily texting, but he initiated it). Much like your wife, my wife is gorgeous and flirty, so she has no shortage of men who would die to fuck her. But that doesn’t mean she’s easy (and that’s why I use the term slut in a positive way). That’s one of the reasons I think she needs that connection, kind of like SW’s three date pattern. If I had tried to impose my rules, I would’ve tried to limit the frequency of their dates and texting, not letting her have vanilla dates after they started having sex, etc. That would not have worked for her and I would’ve missed experiencing things that went beyond my fantasies. She did things that I never thought she would, like putting her panties back on before getting off the bed after fucking with her boyfriend so that she could bring home more cum in her and her panties. If you take into account that she’s a lady, a very refined woman, her doing that and other things was mind blowing. It was my fantasy come true and beyond. I would’ve missed it if I had tried to limit her with rules.

It’s not like she was having an affair with my blessing. Before having a sex date, she always asked me if I was ok with it. And even though at first she was reluctant, she started telling me more details about her trysts because she understood that that was important to me, and one way for me to enjoy it. Reclaiming her was one of the most intense experiences I’ve had. And like you, I’d die to watch a video of her fucking with her boyfriend, but that is not something that she wants. But still, she sent me pictures before, during and after her dates. They were nothing wild, but progressed a lot from a single picture of her getting ready to leave the hotel after one of their first sex dates, to a picture of her with her stomach splattered with cum and her boyfriend still holding her. Just for full disclosure, because this may bias my perspective on this, we are also swingers, and although we don’t play very often, I’ve watched her having sex with other men and women. The hotwife experience (or perhaps I should say the hotwife husband’s) is a very different one, though.

Of course, all the texting, calls and vanilla dates with her boyfriend plus her doing things that she had said she’d never do concerned me. Coastalkid posted something insightful in my thread: “Initially it's the wife's insecurities and perceptions that need reassurances, then it's the husband's insecurities and perceptions that need reassuring.” It seems that you’re in the second phase now, as I was after my wife started dating her boyfriend. I discussed my concerns with her and she reassured me that she wasn’t falling in love with him or anything like that. Multiple times she asked me if I wanted to her to stop. But rationally thinking about it, why would I? I wasn’t getting any less love from her, she was happy, and I was having more frequent and intense sex than before.

So, perhaps SW is like my wife and needs to be more independent to be a hotwife. If that’s the case, that doesn’t match what you had envisioned, with you more involved. Perhaps you have to evaluate the tradeoff: going back to vanilla, which SW doesn’t seem to want, or enjoying the ride with a compromise between what you and she wants.

One issue that is troublesome is that several times she hasn’t been truthful with you. I think that for you to let her do this more independently, she has to be honest with you so that you can trust her. Since it seems that she wants to have this independence, perhaps she’d be willing to stop hiding or denying things if she sees that as a way to get that independence. She needs to understand that hiding things with the intent of protecting your feelings is much worse than telling you those things, since those are things that, for the most part, you want her to do.

In terms of sharing details of her dates with you, be patient and give her time; she’s just starting. My wife doesn’t like to give me details, and I know she only does it to please me. But it has been a gradual progress since we started.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to give you another perspective from what has been my experience. Maybe there are some things I’ve mentioned that you can relate to, and perhaps it helps.

I hope you and SW can continue this journey in a way that suits both of you.

[afagehi7]

I think fish has made every reasonable accommodation. The communication issue isn't on his side. If sw/pinky would open the channels of communication I think fish would go with just about anything to make her happy.

[regular3]

il2sw your words are very wise indeed and work very well in your hotwifeing world. Hopefully Fish will take these thoughts on board and they work for him as well as it has for you.

[slenderfish]

Latest update after a night of torrid sex with Pinky is that she informed me of her intention to find a new FB in her hometown area, because Mr. S has not lived up to his commitment and to her expectation regarding ongoing reasonable contact between trysts. She said he will go into the friend zone.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, in that she has already let him know her travel plans (dates, hotel reservations, etc.). They also share a birthday (next week) and I'm curious to see how she may change her tune if/when he reaches out for her/their birthday.

And Mr. M remains in his hiding place, whatever that is.

She travels for a week in late February.

Birthday party on Saturday. Her girlfriend Ms. A flying in from her hometown and other girlfriend (pole dance instructor) from the adjacent state where she moved in November.

As previously noted, Mr. B will attend without his FB Ms. R, who is not invited. Ms. R did finally indicate to Mr. B that she is developing feelings and that she needs to stop seeing him if he remains in a mindset of FB and not to become boyfriend. So they are done, according to Mr. B.

And I didn't really ever mention Ms. T who has been a regular attendee at our little shindigs. She is small in stature and has great legs, is a wonderful conversationalist (she came over to watch Super Bowl with me two years ago because she didn't want to watch alone), and has been a consistent and reliable friend to SW. I mention her now because a) she and Mr. E (the pole guy with whom I went skiing in the Rockies a couple of weeks ago) got together a couple of years ago as FB's after I introduced them, and have remained friends; b) she is finally completing the residual details of a divorce and has become more aggressive in dating (her diminutive size causes her to get drunk quite fast); c) she ended up in major snog with my son at our last get-together (there's at least 15 years age difference). She has been texting again with Mr. E. We'll have to see what develops on Saturday with her and whomever. If SW were to discuss our hotwifing with any friend, I'd expect her to be at the top of the list.

[slenderfish]

I finally caught up with your thread, which I discovered about a month ago. I enjoy threads like yours that cover the journey into hotwifing. Thanks for taking the time to write in detail what happens and what you think. Oh, and the fact that your wife is a sexy gorgeous woman is definitely a good incentive to follow her evolution from wife to hotwife.

I hope you and SW can continue this journey in a way that suits both of you.

Thank you for the outreach. Yes, so many similarities.

I believe I have read your story.

And yes, we are coming into a sort of "settling in" stage even though quite new. SW apparently desires someone new, and (in my opinion) one who dotes on her more like a boyfriend. I'll share how/when that develops. She still remains steadfast that she will not pursue anyone here in the area where we live, that it must remain far away, in her hometown area for when she visits there.

I'm curious if it may develop into a stable of men in that area. She seems to be very attracted to Mr. S but he does not dote. She would readily go with Mr. M based on the comfort level and their history; she really loves their conversations. Perhaps these two will remain in contact and the new third guy will fill the as-yet-unmet need for doting.

Time will tell.

[superb101]

Ever think about inviting the instructor to your party (minus his wife)? Or just have him drop by earlier in the day to wish her an happy bday?

[slenderfish]

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