Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[Freemans892]

Now that you seen SW transition from suburbia wife to Hotwife. Do you see others in your wider circle of friends where the girlfriend/wife give off the impression or drop hints that they are a Hotwife? Could Mr. G wife be an actual Hotwife herself? Of course there could be other girlfriends / wife’s who have indicted they are happy to play the cheating spouse? From your writings, there has been at least three cheating spouses in the your circle of friends. Of course there are the single females who are quite willing to have affairs with married men, Ms. C and Ms. (pantygate) comes to mind.

[slenderfish]

Now that you seen SW transition from suburbia wife to Hotwife. Do you see others in your wider circle of friends where the girlfriend/wife give off the impression or drop hints that they are a Hotwife? Could Mr. G wife be an actual Hotwife herself? Of course there could be other girlfriends / wife’s who have indicted they are happy to play the cheating spouse? From your writings, there has been at least three cheating spouses in the your circle of friends. Of course there are the single females who are quite willing to have affairs with married men, Ms. C and Ms. (pantygate) comes to mind.

Fair question.

SW loves the Real Housewives franchise on Bravo. I used to think it was a mistake for her to watch it, lest she begin thinking the things those crazy women do are mainstream and acceptable in regular society. Now, 10 years into it, with the Salt Lake City one and the shenanigans there, I compare to our group of friends, etc. and realize it's not that much different. Just more amplified for production value.

Which brings me to our friends. The only one i know about is Ms. SR who was at the birthday party and who was at the dinner last Wednesday night (when I sat in for Ms. F so the girls could claim the table at the snooty French place). Ms. SR is a tall, blonde, former model who also grew up in the MIdwest, and was married for many years to a local and successful real estate agent (think: Million Dollar Listing-level). Legs for forever. Anyway, she confided to SW that she has a 70-something "friend" who takes her out approximately once a month, to dinner, and showers her with gifts, when he's in the area. Apparently he's an old billionaire with a 32-yr-old girlfriend, but who has desire for the conversation of Ms. SR because his young girlfriend has other talents but not deeper conversation. Ms. SR says there is no physical element with this man, but that she also enjoys the company and conversation, and of course the attention and gifts. Ms. SR has promised to arrange for us all to go hang on his yacht in Florida this upcoming summer.

SW has told her that she would love if this guy has any other billionaire old guy friends who would be up for a similar arrangement. Half-kidding, but only half (in my opinion). SW would love to receive a $25k handbag each year for her birthday.

More to your question, the group really does not have any "cheaters" per se, even based on my writings here; rather, we only see people transitioning from one relationship to another. Sometimes there is a break in between, but (apparently) sometimes not. Cheating seems to be something that will get you shunned from the group. No stealing of guys (or girls). But if you are separated or divorced you can sleep with one another and even go back to your spouse if you reconcile.

A perfect example is Ms. RS. She came into the group a couple of years ago, is a lean blonde who runs a lot. She had a serious boyfriend at the time, but they subsequently broke up. I mean, she runs 10 miles in the mornings to burn off excess energy ahead of the day. A couple of summers ago a group of us went to a wine excursion/music festival/long weekend and took a big house with many bedrooms. Some couples and some singles, including single Ms. RS. Once it came out that this Ms. RS has done swinging in the past, all the women started distancing from her. They suddenly considered her a threat. I'll note that she did subtly approach me and, separately, SW with conversation that was subtly inquiring about our openness to "playing" etc. I suppose if she did this with us, perhaps she did with other couples. Then word got around, etc. and she's no longer invited.

[slenderfish]

It's middle of the night Thursday morning and I'm awake. SW still at Ms. A's place overnight but she did make contact with Mr. S on Wed afternoon. Not sure if she went out with him last night or if she was just starting the conversation about schedule. She did say before she left that Fri night was uncommitted. I also recall from the last trip that when she says she has dinner plans with her mother, it really means that she will be done early and can (and did) have a second date with Mr. S.

She did send me a text message early yesterday evening (Wed), her time, that she was with her mother for dinner, etc. I wonder if she pulled together an after-plan?

[regular3]

You aren't going to sleep much this week are you?

[tojanman]

SF is going into hibernation until SW comes back.

[Mark K]

Once it came out that this Ms. RS has done swinging in the past, all the women started distancing from her. They suddenly considered her a threat. I'll note that she did subtly approach me and, separately, SW with conversation that was subtly inquiring about our openness to "playing" etc. I suppose if she did this with us, perhaps she did with other couples. Then word got around, etc. and she's no longer invited.

Wow, that is very interesting. I would have thought the women would have been super curious to chat with her about it. They must be very insecure in their relationships. I don't know. I think I would have been fascinated with chatting about the LS with her, so would my wife, haha... not that we would participate, but a curiosity none the less. How did you and SW approach the subject with her when she brought it up? Did you quickly change the subject?

[slenderfish]

Once it came out that this Ms. RS has done swinging in the past, all the women started distancing from her. They suddenly considered her a threat. I'll note that she did subtly approach me and, separately, SW with conversation that was subtly inquiring about our openness to "playing" etc. I suppose if she did this with us, perhaps she did with other couples. Then word got around, etc. and she's no longer invited.

Wow, that is very interesting. I would have thought the women would have been super curious to chat with her about it. They must be very insecure in their relationships. I don't know. I think I would have been fascinated with chatting about the LS with her, so would my wife, haha... not that we would participate, but a curiosity none the less. How did you and SW approach the subject with her when she brought it up? Did you quickly change the subject?

You make a good point about insecurity in the relationships. Most of the guys in our group are not in their first marriage (including me) and drive the financial engines in their marriages. So I suppose there is the natural balance of power in that the wives (including SW) are to some degree trophy wives. Also, at least one of the guys (the more financially successful one) has established that he will not marry again, and is practicing what he says. His (now) long-term girlfriend is an example to all the others that relationships better stay together because of mutual desire. All the guys have demonstrated that marriage certificates, children, and other legal entanglements are not pure roadblocks to divorce/splitting up.

In my case, I'm not really interested in starting over with an new love interest and dealing with the financial elements. SW and I have been together long enough that she will likely be awarded permanent support if we did split up. At the same time, I expect to continue boosting my earnings over the next several years such that I could manage just fine even if I had a support obligation.

As for the conversation, I've actually had a pretty close friend in my past life where he and his wife were (are?) active swingers. I am quite familiar with the ins and outs (no pun intended) of that lifestyle and would be open to trying with SW if she ever requested it. SW at one point in the past said she would be curious to attend a swinger's event, but she has since walked that back (e.g. now denies ever saying it).

SW is not as open to these concepts and was critical of Ms. RS, essentially "piling on" with the mindsets of the other women.

At the same time, I'm not generally averse to those with other lifestyles and sexual orientation. Perhaps I've had more exposure via experiences with a broad swath of people. I had one startup that was a skincare products business, started by a gay couple who were friends with a (now ex-) girlfriend of mine, and her hottie girlfriend whom I knew well. She referred them to me and we got the business launched and funded. I invested my money and time, the hottie girlfriend's trust-fund boyfriend also invested money, and it was quite successful. Unfortunately for me, in the horse-trading associated with the split with this ex-, I transferred all ownership to her. But I was fine in the company of these guys and their friends and business associates, social events, etc. Not threatened even though looking back I might have a case of sexual bullying etc. because some of these people were quite aggressive and vowed within their friends group to "turn me" someday. I found it very entertaining.

So I readily engaged in quiet conversation with Ms. RS about my history and experience on the outside edge of a swingers' lifestyle. I think this had the unintended(?) effect of encouraging her to more actively befriend SW with her subtle but suggestive conversations. SW was not into it.

I should also add that Ms. RS is at least 10 years younger (on average) compared to the wives and women in our group. So she was doomed anyway as a single woman, with respect to this group of women. Add to that the openness with sexuality, and it's a no-go. All it took was one night out at a big wine event and about 20 of our group, a photograph of her posing on the lap of one of the husbands in the after-party bar, and poof, she was out.

[slenderfish]

You aren't going to sleep much this week are you?

Lots going on, including SW's trip. Sleep comes and goes, so I'll be fine. Historically I've been good with sleep, so this will be a short-term phenomenon. The key, in my opinion, is to not obsess about lack of sleep, lest that gain its own life.

[slenderfish]

SF is going into hibernation until SW comes back.

My version of hibernation.

[Freemans892]

Are you still personally friends with Ms. RS?

Give it a year or two and you may find that SW attitude towards Ms. RS will change. Ms. RS could be the one female person that SW could confide her Hotwife adventures with.

[il2sw]

I'll also point out that many of life's satisfying endeavors are as much fun imagining all the possibilities, as compared to the actual experience.
...
The various possibilities all work for me, as does the reality. And as I've found, the reality comes with thorns from time to time. Sharp thorns. The imagined or projected versions for some reason never have thorns.

I'll take both versions. Thanks for accompanying me along the way with your thoughts and posts.

These are good observations.

Isn’t it an interesting twist that by her having been somewhat secretive before, SW is now fueling your imagination? Even if she’s not hiding anything now, you’re still imagining the possibility of her being naughty. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I wonder if you aren’t actually hoping that she had some plan she didn’t disclose, perhaps because it wasn’t certain, and she ends up fucking Mr. S again.

Thanks for keeping us posted!

[slenderfish]

Isn’t it an interesting twist that by her having been somewhat secretive before, SW is now fueling your imagination? Even if she’s not hiding anything now, you’re still imagining the possibility of her being naughty. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I wonder if you aren’t actually hoping that she had some plan she didn’t disclose, perhaps because it wasn’t certain, and she ends up fucking Mr. S again.

Thanks for keeping us posted!

Yes and yes. I spoke with her today and she said she is attempting to get together with Mr. S on Saturday night "as friends" so that he may introduce his friend Mr. I to SW's friend Ms. A.

A double date?

She called this morning and I'd missed the call, and when I saw it about 10 minutes later I realized that our prior process is for her to call in the morning "the morning after" and leave me a voicemail with all the details of Pinky's shenanigans from the night before. Yes, I was hoping that she had been in full Pinky mode and was calling for the voicemail purpose. But my voicemail was already full! SHIT! Not possible for her to leave a message.

I quickly cleared out the voicemail box and sent her a text to call again, that there is now room in the box.

But she did not. She asked me to call her and when we did speak there was no hotwifing to share. But I did take the opportunity to tell her my thinking and encouraging her to leave me a surprise voicemail if she ends up with anything to share. Like, perhaps if she gets together with Mr. M or Mr. S?

She said it would be doubtful and I said never say never. She forgets that guys readily "go back there" when given the opportunity, etc.

So I've been trying to have no pressure on her but still encouraging her to be open to what may develop.

[slenderfish]

Are you still personally friends with Ms. RS?

Give it a year or two and you may find that SW attitude towards Ms. RS will change. Ms. RS could be the one female person that SW could confide her Hotwife adventures with.

I have remained loosely in touch with Mr. RS. So I/we could go back to her if it becomes germane.

[afagehi7]

Just pinky diddling herself thinking about Mr S taking her ass is hot in itself... And her telling you about it. Even if she doesn't do anything that is way more adventurous than most women.

[eb4cplslooking]

Just my humble opinion, but I don't see SW going back home during winter unless
she had plans with Mr S. - whether she was forthcoming with you or not. She tells you what she wants you to hear...but she has a secret side too as we all know from reading your story. Enjoy the ride.

[slenderfish]

Just my humble opinion, but I don't see SW going back home during winter unless
she had plans with Mr S. - whether she was forthcoming with you or not. She tells you what she wants you to hear...but she has a secret side too as we all know from reading your story. Enjoy the ride.

I agree, at some level. Ever since returning in early December when she was carrying a good dose of NRE with her, she has been playing with the concept of seeing Mr. S prior to her usual trip in May.

- The first concept was his promising to visit her in our area last weekend in January, so they can celebrate their early February birthdays together. At the time she was all full of energy about my planning a ski trip for late January and that Mr. S would visit her while I was out of town.

- There was the upswing in Covid and inability to plan such travel (his side and mine) and also my insistence that I will may or may not leave town if he comes out, that I encourage him to come out but he will stay in a hotel and not at our house anyway (according to SW), so she is free to see him as he may invite her but I don't necessarily want to feel like I'm giving way for him. If I go based on my own plans, then fine. He never really pursued this as far as I can tell, unless she told him not to bother and that she will find a way to see him.

- After a few weeks passed, she brought up her desire to see her mother and sister in late February. She has been positioning this as unrelated to Mr. S, that she's over it with him.

But of course as the date approached she seemed to hope he would call but he did not. She was resolved not to make the first contact but a couple of days prior to her departure she finally gave up and called him. Seems it took a couple of tries before she got him on the phone and they did talk for 75 minutes.

I was wondering about how much draw there may still be there, so I went back and listened to a) the voicemail she left on "the morning after" in late November/early December and b) what she described as the play-by-play during the reclaiming after her return home.

Some points on those:

- He is so nice to her, she really likes his kind manner

- He thinks about her in advance, asks if he can bring anything or if she needs anything

- He is gentle with her, despite his large body

- He likes to kiss but he moves his tongue around with a bit more vigor than she prefers but overall very nice

- He has a large body and proportionate arms, legs and cock. But it goes in her with ease, not painful, even though it clearly goes quite deep

- He knows intuitively she likes to finish with him on top, in missionary position

- She likes the feel of the ejaculation inside her and the slipperiness of the aftermath

- The volume of his ejaculate is much more that she expected

- She feels bonded to him in that his cells are inside of her body, merging with her cells and some of them were certainly absorbed into her

Was a bit enlightening after reviewing the above. So I'm also thinking there must be more there than she lets on, that she's downplaying it for her own reasons.

We will find out!

[superb101]

I am curious to know where you think things would be today between you and her if you had never told her about your hotwife fantasies.

[eb4cplslooking]

Sometimes it is nice to find out “ after the fact” that she’s been naughty. If you end up getting what you want what’s a little white lie here and there. In my humble opinion of course.

[eb4cplslooking]

Eroticise it. See if she plays along. Something along the lines of “you like to keep me guessing about you and your men”. You might you might make a giant leap forward in what her reaction will be.

[slenderfish]

Well, the planned "double date" introduction of Mr. S' friend M. I to Pinky's friend Ms. A happened last night. Or didn't happen. Or both. Some initial notes:

- She said she was planning for this on Saturday night, and that Friday was unplanned.

- Said she was spending Friday with her other niece (the older sister of the niece who lives with us).

- Never updated about any change in plans, even though we were communicating much more frequently this trip.

So last night, after the fact, she texted me that the intro dinner was all set up and Pinky met up with Mr. S and Mr. I and they waiting for Ms. A but she cancelled at the last minute. Pinky said the guys had to go home around 10:30 so she made a point of texting me at 10:48 that she's alone at the bar. I assume they met at the hotel restaurant or somewhere close to there.

The funny thing, I was at a really fabulous social event with my friend Mr. E (he was throwing a birthday party for his longtime wingwoman) and she is very popular so it was outdoors and very well attended (40+ people). A lot of blonde hotties, but a bit higher than usual (for us) on average age. Anyway, one of the girls who was there (Ms. L) had met SW a few weeks ago via these same friends (of Mr. E) and she asked me to take some pics of her and me and send to SW, which I did.

Well, apparently while sitting at the bar alone (I'll take her word for it) and probably on her third glass of wine for the night, she received my text which had also this girl added to the group text. Pinky replied to this text the info about her being alone at the bar because Mr. S (she used his actual name) had to leave. Not sure this was intended (for Ms. L to see) but there it was.

A couple of hours later (10:55 my time) we were singing karaoke and I was running the music, a group of at least 12 of us dancing singing etc. and the music suddenly stopped because of an incoming call. Everyone looked at me bewildered at the sudden quiet. It was Pinky, it was 12:55 a.m. her time. We all laughed and Mr. E grabbed the phone and put it up to the microphone to say hi and so Pinky could say hello to the group and to wish a happy birthday to the birthday girl. When I got the phone back and asked Pinky to hold her thought until the morning since we were mid-song on karaoke, she would not let me go. She said she was still at the bar and had met and passed the time with this couple who was staying at the hotel on a local romantic weekend/getaway, and that she was gonna go up to bed.

Nothing unusual, per se, except that Pinky is not communicative like this and apparently (in my opinion) wanted to take extra steps to demonstrate to me that she was not in her hotel room with Mr. S.

I didn't need this extra effort, nor did I expect it. As such, the skeptical and the hotwife-desire part of me wants to tell me it's a cover story. The trusting part of me thanks her for the effort to clearly avoid any misunderstanding or mistrust.

I will go with the trusting part of me unless or until demonstrated otherwise.

We may have actually reached a true turning point in the relationship between Pinky and Mr. S. It either is defaulting back to friends (likely) or it's gone underground (less likely).

She texted me again a few times today (many more times than normal) and even went to the trouble of letting me know that she has dinner plans tonight over by her hotel, at a steak place with the niece and boyfriend. I suppose lest I wonder what she is doing on a Saturday night.

On a side note, it was a fun party and I didn't get home until 2:00 a.m. Was up early for 8:30 bike ride with a couple of my riding buddies. At the party there was one unusually attractive woman, the kind that I understand better than most (e.g. super hot and most guys are not willing to start conversation lest they get shut down). About SW's age, and just my type (well-kept blonde hair, nails, stylish outfit, showing her long legs, perfect makeup). She attended as a friend of a friend, and didn't know anybody. Of course, being the considerate inclusive guy I am, I made it my job to integrate her into the group. By the end of the night she'd invited me to visit her at her ski home in a famous ski resort area in Colorado. Apparently she did well in a divorce and/or has family money. She also has a house in a very expensive area on the coast in Southern California. I took that cue and asked her if she had met the host of the party, my friend Mr. E? So I remedied that and we are now both invited for a ski weekend in Colorado as her guests.

[2inUPMichigan]

This is what I am getting from your last post:

She was out with a man she has told you she considers a friend along with his friend to introduce him to her friend. Her friend calls off at the look last minute so the evening ends early.
Do I have that right so far??

You are at a birthday party having fun and a woman (who your wife only recently met in a party setting - not a good friend!) asks you to take pictures of the two of you together at the party and send them to your wife. (Can't you see there is a motive behind that?)

You having fun with another woman at a party while she her evening didn't turn out so good - follow me?

She is drinking now by herself at a bar and calls you and she is put on speaker phone. You ask her to "hold her thought" until morning.

I'm just saying that I would be hurt and pissed if my hubby sent me pictures like that. Then ignores my need to talk and make a connection with him.

Your comments seem to be mainly focused on her actions. I encourage you to look at the entire picture.

[anonymister1948]

This is what I am getting from your last post:

She was out with a man she has told you she considers a friend along with his friend to introduce him to her friend. Her friend calls off at the look last minute so the evening ends early.
Do I have that right so far??

You are at a birthday party having fun and a woman (who your wife only recently met in a party setting - not a good friend!) asks you to take pictures of the two of you together at the party and send them to your wife. (Can't you see there is a motive behind that?)

You having fun with another woman at a party while she her evening didn't turn out so good - follow me?

She is drinking now by herself at a bar and calls you and she is put on speaker phone. You ask her to "hold her thought" until morning.

I'm just saying that I would be hurt and pissed if my hubby sent me pictures like that. Then ignores my need to talk and make a connection with him.

Your comments seem to be mainly focused on her actions. I encourage you to look at the entire picture.

As 2inUP points out, SW was feeling down and you were having the time of your life. Even the next day she has been insecure. I find it hard to believe that a person as aware as you are would miss something that obvious. That said, could both of you be passive-aggressive in your communication?

[anonymister1948]

This is what I am getting from your last post:

She was out with a man she has told you she considers a friend along with his friend to introduce him to her friend. Her friend calls off at the look last minute so the evening ends early.
Do I have that right so far??

You are at a birthday party having fun and a woman (who your wife only recently met in a party setting - not a good friend!) asks you to take pictures of the two of you together at the party and send them to your wife. (Can't you see there is a motive behind that?)

You having fun with another woman at a party while she her evening didn't turn out so good - follow me?

She is drinking now by herself at a bar and calls you and she is put on speaker phone. You ask her to "hold her thought" until morning.

I'm just saying that I would be hurt and pissed if my hubby sent me pictures like that. Then ignores my need to talk and make a connection with him.

Your comments seem to be mainly focused on her actions. I encourage you to look at the entire picture.

As 2inUP points out, SW was feeling down and you were having the time of your life. Even the next day she has been insecure. I find it hard to believe that a person as aware as you are would miss something that obvious. That said, could both of you be passive-aggressive in your communication?

[slenderfish]

This is what I am getting from your last post:

She was out with a man she has told you she considers a friend along with his friend to introduce him to her friend. Her friend calls off at the look last minute so the evening ends early.
Do I have that right so far??

You are at a birthday party having fun and a woman (who your wife only recently met in a party setting - not a good friend!) asks you to take pictures of the two of you together at the party and send them to your wife. (Can't you see there is a motive behind that?)

You having fun with another woman at a party while she her evening didn't turn out so good - follow me?

She is drinking now by herself at a bar and calls you and she is put on speaker phone. You ask her to "hold her thought" until morning.

I'm just saying that I would be hurt and pissed if my hubby sent me pictures like that. Then ignores my need to talk and make a connection with him.

Your comments seem to be mainly focused on her actions. I encourage you to look at the entire picture.

Thank you for the reality check. Nice to have people who suggest other perspectives.

I have been trying to connect with her today but no callback. But plenty of text messages.

I believe she is having a good time, to be honest. Her friend Ms. A is notoriously flaky and SW no longer really expects her to show up to anything. So she was out with her (former?) FB and his buddy to dinner at a restaurant where they can actually dine-in.

The night before, she was at a popular restaurant with friends who took her out for a belated birthday dinner. A large group was gathered as a bit of a surprise party, in her honor.

The night before, she was with her mother.

Tonight she is taking out her niece and the fiance, which completes her stated main purpose of the trip, to see family.

But I'll certainly ask the questions, etc. when she sets aside time for us to talk.

[Parsifal]

Her complexities are as much a source of entertainment and stimulus for engagement as the beautiful package it all comes in