Needing advice for a decision

[Observer1931]

I hope this is not another Tunafish situation waiting to happen.

[Gary_evans77]

motivated hubby: This has been on my mind all day since reading your desperate story.

Despite the fact that a small part of you wants this as an erotic fantasy, and the logical part is against it, I feel as others, this is a final step towards your eventual replacement. Sorry.

I'm afraid tho', that the time has passed where you have much say in the matter.

If you say NO, and refuse to grant the "gift" (which it isn't, it's a forced relinquishment of your marital vows), you will gain nothing. Your wife has already made it pretty clear that she does not want PIV anymore when she brought it up in a sexual moment where you may have indulged in it. So even if you say no, you won't be having any further PIV in future. I also believe that despite their "it's your decision and we will accept it" statement, is a lie, they won't, and will bear a grudge against you.

If you try and force the issue to have PIV as a husband with "marital rights" (would you really want to go that route?), then essentially, she is a non-compliant partner who does not want you inside her!

If you say "YES", then as above, it's a final step toward your replacement.

Words of "love" and "affection" from your wife come cheap and easy for her to say, but your commitment as a provider and supporting loving husband do not.

I wish you well motivated hubby, but be prepared to find your own way out of this, and it unfortunately, probably does not include your wife.

Meanwhile, enjoy the access you have intimately to her at the moment, say YES and give her the "gift", and bask in the erotic situation you find yourself in till your replacement, or at best, kept as a provider and occasional "plaything" for your wife.

Paradoxically, if you agree to their request, you can always play the game of trying to get her so horny that she "cheats" on her boyfriend with you. Now, wouldn't that be disturbingly ridiculous, but such a nice win?

Thanks for sharing your story, and I do hope that you have received some helpful advice on here, since many do indulge in denial to a greater or less extent, and have much more real life experience of this than I can offer.

[FNQLivin]

I have been thinking about a lot of this and considering everyone’s posts. I still haven’t made up my mind yet, but I have been wondering about approaching her with a compromise or at least something to delay my final decision.

I was thinking about not yet or at least telling her that I didn’t want to give up the right to penetrate her at least yet even though she wanted it to be something permanent either way because of all the flip-flopping I did early on when we were getting into the lifestyle.

I thought about approaching her with this idea: not giving up the right to penetrate her yet. And I still could as long as we both wanted to on whatever occasion that it may be, like we have been doing.

But maybe have it be that things continue with her boyfriend with he PIV and going Bare like he has been, but if she and I wish to PIV that I will wear a condom.

I don’t know, it was just some thing that came to my mind this afternoon. Does anyone have thoughts about this as a good compromise? So they could still have something exclusive and special between them, but I would not give up PIV entirely If I don’t want to. This way I can still have the traditional intimacy of PIV with her if we wish, but there could also be something exclusive and something special that strictly they share together. We may both be able to PIV with her, but it would only be his seed that would be inside her.

Apologies again for the graphic writings, I’m trying to be as respectful to the ladies as I can and still get the point across but I’m trying to make.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this? If I change my mind later and wish to give up my right to penetrate her I can, but at least this would be giving them something special that only they would share together.

Any thoughts?

I don’t see why you have to give anything up. You’re her husband. She should want to please and be with you. The only way this is acceptable is if it plays not your kink. If not, don’t give anything away.

[aloneinmorrison]

I would recommend having a heart to heart with your wife about which one of them TRULY brought this idea to begin with. Sounds to me like he’s pulling on your wife’s heart strings to get something that HE wants. Unless she has VERY STRONG cukoldress desires, I can’t see most wives wanting to forgo penetration with their husband. This is something that is typically practiced in either a fairly deep cuckold relationship as a way of humiliating and denying the husband or in a relationship where the husband has ED and cannot physically have sex. Seems odd to just come up out of the blue between the two of them in your particular situation. She may be getting a little too close to him and being coerced…

[Maddie_Hippychick]

Just a thought… despite what she is saying, perhaps deep down she wants you to step up and fight for her. She may lose any respect that she has for you if you don’t put your foot down.

She is your wife. Go reclaim her now!

[Rick3066]

I hear so much compassion from you for this man, and he truly is in a vulnerable place. I have known others in a similar situation, and it can be very painful. However, unless you want to welcome him as a third into your marriage, you and your wife shouldn’t make any “forever” or permanent promises to anyone other than each other. I rarely say what people should and shouldn’t do, but I hear your caring nature being taken advantage of in a manner that will at some point blow up in everyone’s faces. At some point, his wife will die. And the lead-up will be awful. But then he will be free. Would you be willing to let your wife be with him at that point? What if you want to have penetrative sex with someone—are you allowed to seek satisfaction elsewhere? No relationship choice like this should be permanent. If they are talking forever, then you may not be in the picture they imagine.

I’ve got to agree

[CurvyNerdMILF]

I like the condom compromise.

I also want to respond to someone who said that someone whose spouse has dementia is cheating when they have a sexual relationship with someone else.

I have some experience in pastoral counseling and chaplaincy. Living with a beloved person who no longer remembers they are married to you, or even who you are sometimes, is extraordinarily difficult. Tending to that person’s needs, including bathing and toileting, takes extraordinary love and devotion. And the spouse who accepts those obligations deserves compassion rather than judgment if they pursue additional relationships with someone who is not only able to properly consent to sexual activity but provide for their emotional needs, as well. It is pretty clear that the other man here is not a cheater. He is in a vulnerable position in which no one really knows how they’d behave.

[FNQLivin]

I like the condom compromise.

I appreciate your view, but why should he compromise? If this is his kink, then go for it. If it’s not, then why should he give anything up? It just seems so unfair and one sided. I get the cuck dynamic, it’s a tremendous turn on, but only if it’s what you want. Outside of a consensual agreement that both parties agree to and free of coercion or blackmail, it’s just abuse.

Sorry for being so strong on this.

I wanted to add, a woman should be in control of her own body. He doesn’t have a ‘right’ to have PIV sex with her, but that’s a different scenario altogether.

[CurvyNerdMILF]

I like the condom compromise.

I appreciate your view, but why should he compromise? If this is his kink, then go for it. If it’s not, then why should he give anything up? It just seems so unfair and one sided. I get the cuck dynamic, it’s a tremendous turn on, but only if it’s what you want. Outside of a consensual agreement that both parties agree to and free of coercion or blackmail, it’s just abuse.

Sorry for being so strong on this.

I wanted to add, a woman should be in control of her own body. He doesn’t have a ‘right’ to have PIV sex with her, but that’s a different scenario altogether.

(1) I think our OP does find some level of hotness in surrendering this privilege. And he has said that he does feel a great level of intimacy and love in other aspects of his sexual relationship with his wife, perhaps even more so than PIV. Not everyone shares the belief or feeling that PIV is the ultimate consummation of even marital love.

(2) You are 100% right that the only person who makes the final decision here is the OP’s wife. However, I think that she feels tenderness for him and a sense of responsibility to their relationship to give him some power in the situation.

[R_H_NC]

I see this time and time again on OHW. It is the wife's body and therefore the ultimate decision is hers. I find this to be a specious argument at best.

Of course, it is her decision but that over-simplistic statement ignores the obvious ramifications of the decisions a wife makes with regard to her having sex with people outside of the marriage. If she makes a decision, as in this case, if she decides to not allow PIV with the OP even if he decides he does not want to 'give this gift' then she risks damaging the marriage, up to and including the point of ending it (although as we see here time and again, the kink, if deep enough, often has the husband accepting almost anything and then claiming he all good with it). This decision will impact the marriage and in that she is not alone.

This universal statement can be extended to all kinds of scenarios.

- She cheats (even under the umbrella of a HW relationship). It’s ok, it’s her choice.

- He cheats (although the HW agreement in place precludes this). It’s ok, it’s his body, therefore his choice.

When discussing the choices people make, even with regard to what they do ‘with their bodies’ we need to be cogent and inclusive in our thoughts. You do this and this might happen.

My ex-wife was a serial cheater. While she certainly said some stupid things when caught in a hotel room with a guy……”You don’t KNOW what was going on in that room”, even she never said, “It’s my body and my choice”.

I realize this is perhaps an extreme analogy related to the ‘my body, my choice’ argument but with a non-specific, universal statement that is what is inferred.

I also contest how much power the wife actually concedes in situations like this. I for one am not seeing it here. Perhaps, there is true and honest feelings and affection involved. In fact, my default is to believe the affection is there. But, then again perhaps there is manipulation occurring. It might even be subconscious and not specifically intended. The results could be disastrous, regardless of the motivations involved.

I have a lot of respect for many of our hotwives, I don’t necessarily agree or sometimes understand the lifestyle as they practice it but do understand there are a nearly infinite paths to take. This does not diminish those feelings but sometimes I see something I feel strongly about.

I truly feel for the OP. Maybe it will all work out; I do hope so but I predict we will see a post where he accepts it and has come to grips with it.
We often ‘come to grips’ with things in our life. In mine at least, this is very rarely something good but an inevitable outcome. That is not what I would describe as a win-win (or in this case a win-win-win) scenario.

[Wife4Guys]

" It just seems to have evolved that way but we would still have penetrated intercourse on rare occasions even though it has not been in several months now."
Early OP post^
How many months is several? Seems like all 3 of you have already been happily living the request. Did not seem to be a big deal for you to abstain when she requested. If nothing is broken no need for anyone to "fix" it with a vow. Do guard your queen.

[Christinebitg]

Let's also call a spade a spade. There is a difference between treating you nicely and being nice. He is being nice because he has to, he cannot manipulate you being an asshole. The guy is cheating on his disabled wife. Nothing he says should be taken at face value because he's already broken the most important promise in his life. Just because it's a difficult promise to keep doesn't absolve him from breaking it. Lots of difficult decision are made every day by people. If they are of good character or not is largely what positions their decisions.

Well, let me ask you a question. How long of a period of time would make it okay for you? Ten years? Maybe 20 years? And how much disability on his wife's part?

If your answer is "never," then how about if his wife is in a persistent vegetative state? How bad does it have to be, for you to say "okay"?

This is not a hypothetical question. A friend of mine had a similar situation that existed for decades. Her husband was institutionalized. Most of her friends didn't even know he existed, though she did visit him regularly.

And there's one more question for you. I trust you're aware of which section this discussion is going on in. So my other question is: What's YOUR definition of cuckolding?

[desertsub]

Despite the fact that a small part of you wants this as an erotic fantasy, and the logical part is against it, I feel as others, this is a final step towards your eventual replacement. Sorry.

I'm afraid tho', that the time has passed where you have much say in the matter.

If you say NO, and refuse to grant the "gift" (which it isn't, it's a forced relinquishment of your marital vows), you will gain nothing. Your wife has already made it pretty clear that she does not want PIV anymore when she brought it up in a sexual moment where you may have indulged in it. So even if you say no, you won't be having any further PIV in future. I also believe that despite their "it's your decision and we will accept it" statement, is a lie, they won't, and will bear a grudge against you.

If you try and force the issue to have PIV as a husband with "marital rights" (would you really want to go that route?), then essentially, she is a non-compliant partner who does not want you inside her!

If you say "YES", then as above, it's a final step toward your replacement.

Words of "love" and "affection" from your wife come cheap and easy for her to say, but your commitment as a provider and supporting loving husband do not.

So, you're close friends with the OP, his wife and the other man? You seem to know a lot more about them than what the rest of us have been able to learn from a few posts!

[R_H_NC]

Despite the fact that a small part of you wants this as an erotic fantasy, and the logical part is against it, I feel as others, this is a final step towards your eventual replacement. Sorry.

I'm afraid tho', that the time has passed where you have much say in the matter.

If you say NO, and refuse to grant the "gift" (which it isn't, it's a forced relinquishment of your marital vows), you will gain nothing. Your wife has already made it pretty clear that she does not want PIV anymore when she brought it up in a sexual moment where you may have indulged in it. So even if you say no, you won't be having any further PIV in future. I also believe that despite their "it's your decision and we will accept it" statement, is a lie, they won't, and will bear a grudge against you.

If you try and force the issue to have PIV as a husband with "marital rights" (would you really want to go that route?), then essentially, she is a non-compliant partner who does not want you inside her!

If you say "YES", then as above, it's a final step toward your replacement.

Words of "love" and "affection" from your wife come cheap and easy for her to say, but your commitment as a provider and supporting loving husband do not.

So, you're close friends with the OP, his wife and the other man? You seem to know a lot more about them than what the rest of us have been able to learn from a few posts!

While I might agree that his words were strident, there is nothing he said that couldn't, with certainty, be declared untrue. Presently, it's all in the realm of possibility.

If we don't look in the box. Those that say the cat is dead and those that say the cat is alive are both correct.

[2inUPMichigan]

She (or they) asked for this "gift" and said it was up to him to decide and they would accept his decision.

I'm sure this wasn't easy for him to work through to get to a compromise that he could present to them.
This is a compromise because he does not lose that intimate contact with his wife and they gain "something special just for them" which is what they both said they wanted.

It may not be the choice that anyone else would make but we always talk about each couple making the best choices for them (not us).

[slowsteady]

The genie is freed from the bottle. He has already forfeited any opportunity to retain his throne. One way journey hence. He shall learn...

[motivated hubby]

She (or they) asked for this "gift" and said it was up to him to decide and they would accept his decision.

I'm sure this wasn't easy for him to work through to get to a compromise that he could present to them.
This is a compromise because he does not lose that intimate contact with his wife and they gain "something special just for them" which is what they both said they wanted.

It may not be the choice that anyone else would make but we always talk about each couple making the best choices for them (not us).

Thank you

[R_H_NC]

She (or they) asked for this "gift" and said it was up to him to decide and they would accept his decision.

I'm sure this wasn't easy for him to work through to get to a compromise that he could present to them.
This is a compromise because he does not lose that intimate contact with his wife and they gain "something special just for them" which is what they both said they wanted.

It may not be the choice that anyone else would make but we always talk about each couple making the best choices for them (not us).

Thank you

Have you proposed the 'condom compromise' yet?

If so, what was her reaction (well their reaction since this train is being driven by both of them) ?

[Gary_evans77]

So, you're close friends with the OP, his wife and the other man? You seem to know a lot more about them than what the rest of us have been able to learn from a few posts!

Thanks for the feedback desertsub, but could you please point out anything in my post that the OP did not himself say or infer?
Apart of course the "replacement" - which other posters have already envisaged as a real possibility?

Keep it short please, I do no want to invade the original OP's exciting thread with a spat!

As a caveat, I do think you should have replied to the original OP if you disagreed with me, and explain why you think I'm wrong. That would be more in keeping with the thread.

[BigHotMess]

Let's also call a spade a spade. There is a difference between treating you nicely and being nice. He is being nice because he has to, he cannot manipulate you being an asshole. The guy is cheating on his disabled wife. Nothing he says should be taken at face value because he's already broken the most important promise in his life. Just because it's a difficult promise to keep doesn't absolve him from breaking it. Lots of difficult decision are made every day by people. If they are of good character or not is largely what positions their decisions.

Well, let me ask you a question. How long of a period of time would make it okay for you? Ten years? Maybe 20 years? And how much disability on his wife's part?

If your answer is "never," then how about if his wife is in a persistent vegetative state? How bad does it have to be, for you to say "okay"?

This is not a hypothetical question. A friend of mine had a similar situation that existed for decades. Her husband was institutionalized. Most of her friends didn't even know he existed, though she did visit him regularly.

And there's one more question for you. I trust you're aware of which section this discussion is going on in. So my other question is: What's YOUR definition of cuckolding?

An infinite time. A good person does not break their word, no matter how hard it is.

But as it pertains to this particular question it has not really been a long time and from within the context of OP making a decision is the perspective to take here. He’s breaking the most important promise to presumably his most important person, so when he ‘promises’ something to him where he has incentive to break the promise you just can’t assume that he is operating in good faith.

An opinion on cuckolding does not matter because the definition of cuckolding as it applies to this loser cuckolding his unknowing, disabled wife is not germane to this particular situation.

[MrPepeLePew]

I stopped reading about halfway through these pages. You can debate / fret over this and hear all of the success / failure stories you want. Folks on here are going to reply based on their own experiences and therein lies the rub. Our own experiences are not yours and this situation absolutely would not fly with some, with others it may be encouraged. Hearing for / against probably won't help you much and it may even distract you from the point. I will say part of what's great (as well as terrifying) about this kink is eventually, as things progress, you come to the hardcore realization that you're out of control. You're moving in a direction that you're incapable of controlling on your own. You both control the direction (regardless of whoever else is involved). The relationship dynamics shift, as things progress and the act of seeing it change can make us freak out and want to regain control again. I would argue we never really did have much control over a relationship involving 2 people, this lifestyle just reveals it. We find ourselves wanting to 'go back' to a place we never really did come from. That's the terrifying part of this lifestyle.

I think the important point is that you communicate, above all else. You will eventually arrive at the same place eventually, whether you think you're doing it on purpose or not. It sounds to me you guys have a pretty healthy relationship. So here comes my advice:

You originally asked her to do something she wasn't initially on board with, but she came around. She's asking you to try something that you may not be 100% on board with yet, I think you should return the favor. This lifestyle is not about remaining in (or trying to get back to) that safe space, it's about exploring a scary space together.

Good luck. You take a chance either way.

[R_H_NC]

……………………You originally asked her to do something she wasn't initially on board with, but she came around. She's asking you to try something that you may not be 100% on board with yet, I think you should return the favor. This lifestyle is not about remaining in (or trying to get back to) that safe space, it's about exploring a scary space together………………….

I think you make some good points. And I agree that he takes a chance no matter what his decision is.

I found it interesting that you posited a variation on one of my comments regarding an eventual change of heart/mindset.

……………..What do you envision their relationship will be beyond her providing comfort to him in the immediate aftermath of the wife’s death?
I know you have stated in various ways that your wife has stated and you believe she wants to stay with you and will never leave. I feel the distinct possibility is that she is sincere when she says that.
In the beginning of the journey to the lifestyle she was against it. Probably pretty intensely based on input from other HW’s here on OHW. Over time, ‘she started to warm to the idea’. So, she had a sincere position and mindset at one point and changed that over time. A pretty human trait. Could that happen again? Make sure you consider all the facts of the situation, not just what is being said. For instance, she is in love with her lover. That alone is a pretty big fact.

[motivated hubby]

Let's also call a spade a spade. There is a difference between treating you nicely and being nice. He is being nice because he has to, he cannot manipulate you being an asshole. The guy is cheating on his disabled wife. Nothing he says should be taken at face value because he's already broken the most important promise in his life. Just because it's a difficult promise to keep doesn't absolve him from breaking it. Lots of difficult decision are made every day by people. If they are of good character or not is largely what positions their decisions.

Well, let me ask you a question. How long of a period of time would make it okay for you? Ten years? Maybe 20 years? And how much disability on his wife's part?

If your answer is "never," then how about if his wife is in a persistent vegetative state? How bad does it have to be, for you to say "okay"?

This is not a hypothetical question. A friend of mine had a similar situation that existed for decades. Her husband was institutionalized. Most of her friends didn't even know he existed, though she did visit him regularly.

And there's one more question for you. I trust you're aware of which section this discussion is going on in. So my other question is: What's YOUR definition of cuckolding?

An infinite time. A good person does not break their word, no matter how hard it is.

But as it pertains to this particular question it has not really been a long time and from within the context of OP making a decision is the perspective to take here. He’s breaking the most important promise to presumably his most important person, so when he ‘promises’ something to him where he has incentive to break the promise you just can’t assume that he is operating in good faith.

An opinion on cuckolding does not matter because the definition of cuckolding as it applies to this loser cuckolding his unknowing, disabled wife is not germane to this particular situation.

Wow! Did you really just call me a loser??? I turned to the members here for comfort and insight. So far some have seemed a bit negative to even hostile, but I jogged all that up to emotional feelings connected to this. But now somebody calls me a, “loser cuckold!”

Thank you to those of you who were open and honest and caring. But I think I just will not post anything here further. I will be having that discussion with my wife this evening to give her my decision. But I really don’t mean negatively nor to be called a loser. I was actually feeling pretty good about myself today and my marriage and relationship and my wife’s relationship with her lover, but now ……..

[R_H_NC]

Let's also call a spade a spade. There is a difference between treating you nicely and being nice. He is being nice because he has to, he cannot manipulate you being an asshole. The guy is cheating on his disabled wife. Nothing he says should be taken at face value because he's already broken the most important promise in his life. Just because it's a difficult promise to keep doesn't absolve him from breaking it. Lots of difficult decision are made every day by people. If they are of good character or not is largely what positions their decisions.

Well, let me ask you a question. How long of a period of time would make it okay for you? Ten years? Maybe 20 years? And how much disability on his wife's part?

If your answer is "never," then how about if his wife is in a persistent vegetative state? How bad does it have to be, for you to say "okay"?

This is not a hypothetical question. A friend of mine had a similar situation that existed for decades. Her husband was institutionalized. Most of her friends didn't even know he existed, though she did visit him regularly.

And there's one more question for you. I trust you're aware of which section this discussion is going on in. So my other question is: What's YOUR definition of cuckolding?

An infinite time. A good person does not break their word, no matter how hard it is.

But as it pertains to this particular question it has not really been a long time and from within the context of OP making a decision is the perspective to take here. He’s breaking the most important promise to presumably his most important person, so when he ‘promises’ something to him where he has incentive to break the promise you just can’t assume that he is operating in good faith.

An opinion on cuckolding does not matter because the definition of cuckolding as it applies to this loser cuckolding his unknowing, disabled wife is not germane to this particular situation.

Wow! Did you really just call me a loser??? I turned to the members here for comfort and insight. So far some have seemed a bit negative to even hostile, but I jogged all that up to emotional feelings connected to this. But now somebody calls me a, “loser cuckold!”

Thank you to those of you who were open and honest and caring. But I think I just will not post anything here further. I will be having that discussion with my wife this evening to give her my decision. But I really don’t mean negatively nor to be called a loser. I was actually feeling pretty good about myself today and my marriage and relationship and my wife’s relationship with her lover, but now ……..

Well, that is unfortunate and of course, your choice. I believe he was calling your wife's lover a loser.....pay attention to the commas.

Have to say though that the negativity is par for the course in anonymous forums. I think overall you have had people posting from a place of care and concern.

[2inUPMichigan]

Let's also call a spade a spade. There is a difference between treating you nicely and being nice. He is being nice because he has to, he cannot manipulate you being an asshole. The guy is cheating on his disabled wife. Nothing he says should be taken at face value because he's already broken the most important promise in his life. Just because it's a difficult promise to keep doesn't absolve him from breaking it. Lots of difficult decision are made every day by people. If they are of good character or not is largely what positions their decisions.

Well, let me ask you a question. How long of a period of time would make it okay for you? Ten years? Maybe 20 years? And how much disability on his wife's part?

If your answer is "never," then how about if his wife is in a persistent vegetative state? How bad does it have to be, for you to say "okay"?

This is not a hypothetical question. A friend of mine had a similar situation that existed for decades. Her husband was institutionalized. Most of her friends didn't even know he existed, though she did visit him regularly.

And there's one more question for you. I trust you're aware of which section this discussion is going on in. So my other question is: What's YOUR definition of cuckolding?

An infinite time. A good person does not break their word, no matter how hard it is.

But as it pertains to this particular question it has not really been a long time and from within the context of OP making a decision is the perspective to take here. He’s breaking the most important promise to presumably his most important person, so when he ‘promises’ something to him where he has incentive to break the promise you just can’t assume that he is operating in good faith.

An opinion on cuckolding does not matter because the definition of cuckolding as it applies to this loser cuckolding his unknowing, disabled wife is not germane to this particular situation.

Wow! Did you really just call me a loser??? I turned to the members here for comfort and insight. So far some have seemed a bit negative to even hostile, but I jogged all that up to emotional feelings connected to this. But now somebody calls me a, “loser cuckold!”

Thank you to those of you who were open and honest and caring. But I think I just will not post anything here further. I will be having that discussion with my wife this evening to give her my decision. But I really don’t mean negatively nor to be called a loser. I was actually feeling pretty good about myself today and my marriage and relationship and my wife’s relationship with her lover, but now ……..

No! He was talking about a "lover cuckolding his unknowing disabled wife" so they are definitely NOT talking about you. They are talking about your wife's lover.