Candy too (part 2 of Candy)

[Chrislydi]

Thanks goyse, the author's view is the only one that really matters, it giving the driving force and motivations for possible consequent actions. It's most helpful imo as it guides the reader away from any possible erroneous misreading. Now the underlying forces which are driving the principals are clearly spelt out there's the opportunity for a real appreciation of subsequent chapters.

[OOAA]

Thanks goyse, the author's view is the only one that really matters, it giving the driving force and motivations for possible consequent actions. It's most helpful imo as it guides the reader away from any possible erroneous misreading. Now the underlying forces which are driving the principals are clearly spelt out there's the opportunity for a really appreciation of subsequent chapters.

Thanks master Goyse!!!

[OZCPL]

The reader however may have worked out why Michael accepts it. He knows Candy wants this affair with Tod so Michael's love is so strong that he feels he must accept Tod's abuse because he doesn't want to ruin it for Candy. Candy thinks it may be a turn-on for Michael but in fact, he absolutely hates it and it even angers him.

Where to from here?

Yes, Michael is not a cuck, he is a stag and always has been but Candy cant work that out when her pussy is full of Tod.

[Chrislydi]

The reader however may have worked out why Michael accepts it. He knows Candy wants this affair with Tod so Michael's love is so strong that he feels he must accept Tod's abuse because he doesn't want to ruin it for Candy. Candy thinks it may be a turn-on for Michael but in fact, he absolutely hates it and it even angers him.

Where to from here?

Yes, Michael is not a cuck, he is a stag and always has been but Candy cant work that out when her pussy is full of Tod.

, Yes goyse answered one of my posts when I tried to compare Oscar (from Oscar and Irene) to Michael, pointing out that while the character of Oscar was based on his friend on this OHW site, the character of Michael was much more that of himself - I need to keep reminding myself of that!

[goyse]

Now that everybody is convinced that I know who and what Michael is, I ask the question, "Do I really know for sure?" How many of us have watched a movie and have been absolutely certain of what was going to happen because it was obvious but bingo, everything changed. I love writing but sometimes I lose direction and everything changes without me really knowing why. Beware!

But I do fight it.......


Candy too Chapter 21

The next morning Michael was up at six. He carefully left the bed so as not to wake Jill, grabbed a quick shower and joined Candy in the master bedroom. Candy was nude which was exceptional for his wife as usually even if they had sex she would sneak off to put on a nightie at least.

He climbed into the bed behind her and was surprised when she said, “What kept you. I’ve been waiting.”

“I had a quick shower.”

“Where is Jilly?”

“She is still asleep.”

“She didn’t want to come up with you?”

“I didn’t ask her.”

“Then you should have. We are a truple now so we can’t leave her out. When I come back I’d like us to set up a ceremony to welcome her into our marriage.” Typical of Candy she didn’t wait for an answer but just continued talking. “Are you happy that you’re going to be a dad?”

“Yes, I wonder if it will be a girl this time that would give us a girl and a boy.”

“Michael, make love to me.” Michael lifted up above her but she said, “No, do me from behind. I like it that way.”

“Does Tod do you from behind?”

“Yes, he does sometimes but more often he goes on top like you used to.”

“And what do you like from him?”

“Should we be talking about Tod?”

“Not if you don’t want to.”

“I just thought that I might say things that hurt you if we talk about him too much.”

“It’s reality, Candy. Tod fucks you and I can’t change that so I don’t have any option but to accept it so I may as well get you to tell me more about it.”

“Okay, what would you like to know?”

“I’m not sure but it needs to be good, not bad. I don’t want to get angry.”

“Okay, when we have sex he often videos us and then we sometimes watch the videos as a means of getting us turned on. He does things like open me up with that thing you used and checks me out internally. Next time he checks me out he’ll look for the thingy but it won’t be there.”

“But you’ll have the diaphragm in, won’t you?”

“I’m not sure yet but I probably will but if I use it I’ll go to the John and insert it just before we have sex so if he wants to stuff around before it won’t be in there. Besides I’m just past my danger time at present so I won’t need the diaphragm for a couple of weeks.”

“You once told me that he liked to show you off. Has he ever talked of letting other men have sex with you?’

“Yes.” Candy said no more but just looked up at him.

“Just yes, I thought you were going to tell me things?”

“I don’t want to talk about that.”

“Oh, I see. He has already let other men fuck you?”

“Yes.”

“Why won’t you talk about it?”

“I don’t want to make you angry.”

“Okay, so he hurt you.”

“No, he didn’t.”

“So someone else hurt you?”

“No, Can we talk about something else, please?”

“Yes we can but I want to ask one more question first.”

“Okay but I don’t know if I’ll answer it.”

“That’s okay because if you won’t answer I’ll know the answer anyway. Did you enjoy it?”

“If I told you that I did, would it upset you?”

“No, not at all, I’d be extremely happy for you.”

“I loved it.”

“I’m glad and happy for you.”

“You didn’t get upset.”

“No way, I want you to be happy and if that made you happy then I’m all for it as long as what you did was safe.”

“They were all tested.”

“All, there were more than two?”

Candy could now see that Michael was okay with it so she opened up to him. “Yes, there were seven altogether with Tod. They were all black and all had cocks as big as or bigger than Tod. They all went bareback so I was very messy.”

“Did he tape it?” Candy was shocked when Michael said ‘Tape it’ because she had tried to use the term ‘record it’ each time. Taping was old hat stuff and not many people did it anymore. She guessed that she must have slipped up somewhere but couldn’t remember when.

Candy looked at Michael funny. He wondered why but he let it pass. “Yes, he recorded it all, most of it as close-up. He did copies of the recordings and he gave me a copy. I have it in the black box in my wardrobe.”

“Why did you tell me where you keep it?”

“You will want to watch it, won’t you?”

“You’d let me?”

“As long as you don’t get angry about it then, of course, I will let you.”

“Okay, I’ll try to watch it while you’re away.”

“With Jilly?”

“I’m not sure that’s a good idea, Candy.”

“I’ve shown her other videos of me with Tod.”

“Why did you do that?”

“Tod asked me to.”

“Okay, now that could make me angry. You must not do anything to allow Tod to get closer to Jill. That’s a no go area now or at any time.”

“Why?”

“You can’t do that because of what he does. He seduces women, gets them pregnant then he walks away.”

“He hasn’t walked away from me.”

“No, that is true, not yet anyway.”

“You think he will walk away?”

“I believe so but I do hope that I’m wrong.”

“You hope you’re wrong, why?”

“I don’t want you to be hurt. I love you too much.”

“Michael.”

“Yes, Candy.”

“Fuck me, make me cum like you used to.”

“I’ll try.”

And he did. He made her cum and he blasted as much of his sperm as deep into her as he could while thinking that she was unprotected so maybe, just maybe if she ovulated a couple of days later than normal on this cycle he might have a slight chance of beating Tod to doing it. He knew that when she returned to him in a month’s time that the container with the diaphragms in would be untouched or at least seldom touched.

He knew that Candy was too far gone in her search for the ultimate sexual experience that it was likely that she wouldn’t even think of protecting herself. She was a lost soul when it came to Tod. He just hoped that Tod was sensible enough that he would not organize a Gangbang the next time she was ovulating.

Finished, he kept his cock inside her and held her tightly so she couldn’t get away to clean herself. He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix. If it was then at least some of his seed was now travelling up along her tubes searching for that egg that may or may not be there. In the position she was presently in he had help on his side, gravity. He liked the idea.

“Michael.”

“Yes, Candy.”

“You’re getting hard again. I can feel you.”

“Yes, I believe so.”

“Good, let’s see if you can make me cum again before you have to go to work?”

“Okay. Why don’t you tell me all about the gang bang especially the parts where you had your orgasms and where they filled your pussy with their seed.”

Michael was already working away on her.

“You like the parts where I cum with other men don’t you?”

“Oh, yes, I do.”

“But you like the parts where men cum inside me too especially if you think I’ll be unprotected, don’t you.”

“Oh, yes, I do.”

“Well, I’ll get Tod to record me bring fucked by his huge cock and make sure he includes when I cum and then when he blasts his seed inside me just like you did but you won’t know if I have fitted the diaphragm or not, will you.”

“Oh, Candy, I’m going to cum.”

“Oh, Michael so am I.”

The next minute or so was a mixture of moans and groans from both of them until finally, Michael collapsed on top of her back holding his shaft as deep inside her as he could to allow the last droplets of his sperm to leave him. They could have remained that way for some time if it hadn’t been for the clapping.

“Wow,” Jill told them, “Is it always that energetic when you make love to her Michael?”

Michael laughed but didn’t comment. Candy however told her, “Only when I’m unprotected and he thinks he has a chance to beat Tod to get me pregnant.”

“You’re unprotected and you’re going to Europe with Tod?”

“That is what Michael thinks. He thinks that I’ll come back pregnant.”

“Will you?”

“Yes, I probably will if I stay the full month.”

“You’d let Tod take you unprotected?”

“I don’t plan to but I do get so carried away sometimes that I don’t know what I’m doing………, like now.” She added.

“Then you should stay home, Candy. It’s wrong what you’re doing.”

“Yes, you’re right. It is wrong but somehow I’ll work it out because I am going and Michael wants me to. I can tell.”

Michael didn’t comment. He simply pulled out of her and gave her a kiss. He walked over to Jill, kissed her and said, “I’ll go to work because you don’t want me here when Tod arrives.” No one said a word or disagreed so he left and moved to the bathroom.

[veub]

Is the reason Michael is holding back on the big reveal of the secret he believes will destroy Tod is to get payback to Candy for the pain he has gone through? After all, he is waiting for her to commit even more deeply to Tod before he springs the trap - won't that increase the pain to her?
And did she use the diaphragm while fucking Michael? "He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix." It seems that Michael thinks she might have.
It's been decades since I fucked a woman using a diaphragm (they were very popular during the 70s before AIDS made condom use popular) but I can recall being able to feel it during sex with some of them.

[Chrislydi]

Wow that was absolutely immense and so many underlying undercurrents too. The gangbang/pregnancy risk theme was so reminiscent of your own experience with ex-wife Sue, re the organised 'skating meeting' (unprotected) gangbangs just at her most fertile time of the month. While on about Sue's misadventures, did you ever hear what happened to Merv the swerve after he neatly swerved away from the scene after Cherie had had him? I would assume you would have drawn on your own experiences of that time in describing Michael's reaction to hearing Candy reveal selected details

Candy seems to seriously get off on the same pregnancy risk and thinks Michael does too. Sometimes it's hard to tell how much is just teasing, because she thinks Michael likes to hear it, and how much is real.

[Chrislydi]

Is the reason Michael is holding back on the big reveal of the secret he believes will destroy Tod is to get payback to Candy for the pain he has gone through? After all, he is waiting for her to commit even more deeply to Tod before he springs the trap - won't that increase the pain to her?
And did she use the diaphragm while fucking Michael? "He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix." It seems that Michael thinks she might have.
It's been decades since I fucked a woman using a diaphragm (they were very popular during the 70s before AIDS made condom use popular) but I can recall being able to feel it during sex with some of them.

Must admit I wondered that too re the diaphragm with Michael. I was a little surprised Michael didn't recognise it when he asked he what it was in a previous chapter or perhaps he just wanted Candy to spell it out for him, but the pill is now so universal that maybe it was something entirely foreign to him. I've noticed old methods of contraception occasionally in xleg's Jen and Mike stories too. I think Jen used a sponge with Frank Tower in the first Jen and Mike saga .

[veub]

Is the reason Michael is holding back on the big reveal of the secret he believes will destroy Tod is to get payback to Candy for the pain he has gone through? After all, he is waiting for her to commit even more deeply to Tod before he springs the trap - won't that increase the pain to her?
And did she use the diaphragm while fucking Michael? "He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix." It seems that Michael thinks she might have.
It's been decades since I fucked a woman using a diaphragm (they were very popular during the 70s before AIDS made condom use popular) but I can recall being able to feel it during sex with some of them.

Must admit I wondered that too re the diaphragm
with Michael. I was a little surprised Michael didn't recognise it when he asked he what it was in a previous chapter or perhaps he just wanted Candy to spell it out for him, but the pill is now so universal that maybe it was something entirely foreign to him. I've noticed old methods of contraception occasionally in xleg's Jen and Mike stories too. I think Jen used a sponge with Frank Tower in the first Jen and Mike saga .

Diaphragms could have problems. I was at a bar with a girl who who was fairly drunk. She went to the restroom and decided to put in her diaphragm. Not a good idea in her condition. One foot up on the open toilet she dropped it and it landed in the toilet. Not in a condition to make the best decision, she didn't want to put her hands in the toilet so decided to flush it away. They don't flush. She wound up flooding the restroom. Worse still she explained to the bartender what happened. That eventually got back to her husband - it was not a happy day for her.

[Chrislydi]

Is the reason Michael is holding back on the big reveal of the secret he believes will destroy Tod is to get payback to Candy for the pain he has gone through? After all, he is waiting for her to commit even more deeply to Tod before he springs the trap - won't that increase the pain to her?
And did she use the diaphragm while fucking Michael? "He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix." It seems that Michael thinks she might have.
It's been decades since I fucked a woman using a diaphragm (they were very popular during the 70s before AIDS made condom use popular) but I can recall being able to feel it during sex with some of them.

Must admit I wondered that too re the diaphragm
with Michael. I was a little surprised Michael didn't recognise it when he asked he what it was in a previous chapter or perhaps he just wanted Candy to spell it out for him, but the pill is now so universal that maybe it was something entirely foreign to him. I've noticed old methods of contraception occasionally in xleg's Jen and Mike stories too. I think Jen used a sponge with Frank Tower in the first Jen and Mike saga .

Diaphragms could have problems. I was at a bar with a girl who who was fairly drunk. She went to the restroom and decided to put in her diaphragm. Not a good idea in her condition. One foot up on the open toilet she dropped it and it landed in the toilet. Not in a condition to make the best decision, she didn't want to put her hands in the toilet so decided to flush it away. They don't flush. She wound up flooding the restroom. Worse still she explained to the bartender what happened. That eventually got back to her husband - it was not a happy day for her.

That's so funny - I bet she has a laugh about it now even if it's only in a dark humour sort of way. Probably the worst nightmare of her life I would have thought.

[OZCPL]

Jilly asks “Why do you have to lie Candy? I’ve told you before people know the truth, in most cases, so if you lie you achieve nothing other than disgracing yourself.”

Candy has made a lot of promises. Apart from others she made a lot of promises, in the above chapter, about how it will be when she comes back. That is about her pussy tightness, how the three of them will live together, how Tod will be out of their lives and most importantly just that she will in fact return.

I wonder what implications all that could have for Michael's long term future and the future of the Truple.

[OZCPL]

Candy has admitted there is something she is not telling Michael but after his further questions said she will tell him when it is time.

When Tod arrives to pick up Candy then Jilly will also be there and we have now learned that Candy has been helping her big cock lover to condition Jilly to be curious about him. There is potential there for Tod to have a threesome with the two girls before leaving for the airport.

I think, an interesting thing is, Jilly has not told Michael about seeing the tape that Candy showed her and has not told him what Candy has been telling her. Candy used to tell Michael she is different to Candy.

[OZCPL]

Diaphragms could have problems. I was at a bar with a girl who who was fairly drunk. She went to the restroom and decided to put in her diaphragm. Not a good idea in her condition. One foot up on the open toilet she dropped it and it landed in the toilet. Not in a condition to make the best decision, she didn't want to put her hands in the toilet so decided to flush it away. They don't flush. She wound up flooding the restroom. Worse still she explained to the bartender what happened. That eventually got back to her husband - it was not a happy day for her.

That's so funny - I bet she has a laugh about it now even if it's only in a dark humour sort of way. Probably the worst nightmare of her life I would have thought.

Yes, I have to admit I had a chuckle at, that one, especially when presuming she was a cheating wife and not a hotwife. Still, at the same time, I could not help but feel sort of sorry for the poor girl who was really just trying to put a bit fun in her repetitive married life. There was a song "Girls just want to have fun" and from what I have seen of life's lessons it is very good for them, so long as they don't let a bit of fun tangle up their lives too much. After all girls could successfully be with a lot of men in one day but but the same could not be said of men.

[OZCPL]

Finished, he kept his cock inside her and held her tightly so she couldn’t get away to clean herself. He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix. If it was then at least some of his seed was now travelling up along her tubes searching for that egg that may or may not be there. In the position she was presently in he had help on his side, gravity. He liked the idea.

I know that feeling and every time it has produced a pregnancy for me.
A cervix is usually closed tight but it is obviously able to open a huge amount at the right moment in a girl's life. If it is her fertile time she is probably feeling more sexy than usual. If she has sex and gets really turned on and lets herself enjoy the fucking then deep inside her body her cervix may open to accept an engorged hard cock and milk it. For a man I think this is easily the best PIV sex to have. Maybe it should be called PIVNC sex.

[veub]

Finished, he kept his cock inside her and held her tightly so she couldn’t get away to clean herself. He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix. If it was then at least some of his seed was now travelling up along her tubes searching for that egg that may or may not be there. In the position she was presently in he had help on his side, gravity. He liked the idea.

I know that feeling and every time it has produced a pregnancy for me.
A cervix is usually closed tight but it is obviously able to open a huge amount at the right moment in a girl's life. If it is her fertile time she is probably feeling more sexy than usual. If she has sex and gets really turned on and lets herself enjoy the fucking then deep inside her body her cervix may open to accept an engorged hard cock and milk it. For a man I think this is easily the best PIV sex to have. Maybe it should be called PIVNC sex.

Sorry, that's medically impossible unless she is suffering from a severe medical condition or your penis is a couple millimeters around. What you may be feeling is pushing up the cervix slightly into the uterus.
If the cervix could open like that IUDs wouldn't stay in the uterus and tampons could wind up in the uterus.

[OZCPL]

Finished, he kept his cock inside her and held her tightly so she couldn’t get away to clean herself. He had felt that same thing that he had once before that seemed to grip hold of the tip of her cock and hoped that it was in fact her cervix. If it was then at least some of his seed was now travelling up along her tubes searching for that egg that may or may not be there. In the position she was presently in he had help on his side, gravity. He liked the idea.

I know that feeling and every time it has produced a pregnancy for me.
A cervix is usually closed tight but it is obviously able to open a huge amount at the right moment in a girl's life. If it is her fertile time she is probably feeling more sexy than usual. If she has sex and gets really turned on and lets herself enjoy the fucking then deep inside her body her cervix may open to accept an engorged hard cock and milk it. For a man I think this is easily the best PIV sex to have. Maybe it should be called PIVNC sex.

Sorry, that's medically impossible unless she is suffering from a severe medical condition or your penis is a couple millimeters around. What you may be feeling is pushing up the cervix slightly into the uterus.
If the cervix could open like that IUDs wouldn't stay in the uterus and tampons could wind up in the uterus.

Well I'm sorry also, to have to be so direct but I really don't understand how you can so confidently make a statement like that. It appears you have never experienced it and may not have considered what happens, when a woman gives birth. Do you have any relevant professional medical knowledge because I would be interested in knowing more about it, if anyone has some reliable factual information on the subject.

[veub]

When a woman gives birth hormones are produced (prostaglandin) that, together with repeated uterine contractions allow the cervix to thin and relax. Even then it's a long process.
As to medical information just google cervical penetration. I'd be interested in hearing about any non-porn site that says it's possible unless the woman has a severe malformation of her cervix.

[OOAA]

GREAT chapter and debate!!!!

Thanks Goyse!!!

[OZCPL]

When a woman gives birth hormones are produced (prostaglandin) that, together with repeated uterine contractions allow the cervix to thin and relax. Even then it's a long process.
As to medical information just google cervical penetration. I'd be interested in hearing about any non-porn site that says it's possible unless the woman has a severe malformation of her cervix.

Well I did say 'relevant professional medical knowledge" but I also mentioned "reliable factual information" because I don't regard the internet as being that. I know for a fact that, on at least two occasions, there was nothing in there except her cervix and my penis and I know what I felt and how extraordinarily good it was, as it wrapped snugly around me. I did not have to force in, it dilated for me when I nudged it centre top.

You mentioned that when a woman has a baby it is a long process. Well that certainly is so and is necessary, because she has to fit a whole new baby through there but that only goes to show just what wondrous things her cervix is capable of. My penis is only of ordinary size and nothing even comparable to the size of most new babies. With that in mind I am not about to change my opinion of what most likely occurred. I don't have a medical degree and at this time I suspect that you, my friend, don't either so I am not prepared to debate the subject any further.

It is a subject that I would enjoy seeing a medical research group study, to determine the probability of a woman's body being capable of accepting a man, in that way, and in the correct circumstances.

[Chrislydi]

I could try and text my brother as he's a consultant in a large hospital, not a gynaecologist though, but maybe it's fairly basic medical knowledge. Tbh I found the 'debate' quite entertaining.

[OZCPL]

I could try and text my brother as he's a consultant in a large hospital, not a gynaecologist though, but maybe it's fairly basic medical knowledge. Tbh I found the 'debate' quite entertaining.

Any thig could be possible but I doubt it has ever been studied unless somebody finds a financial incentive to motivate them.

[Chrislydi]

I could try and text my brother as he's a consultant in a large hospital, not a gynaecologist though, but maybe it's fairly basic medical knowledge. Tbh I found the 'debate' quite entertaining.

Any thig could be possible but I doubt it has ever been studied unless somebody finds a financial incentive to motivate them.

Yeah tbh it's not that easy to text him about anyway considering we normally only have limited contact, and the majority of texts are about some sport - cricket, rugby etc - he'd laugh, want to know details and be convinced I'm playing away and wanting 'advice'

[veub]

When a woman gives birth hormones are produced (prostaglandin) that, together with repeated uterine contractions allow the cervix to thin and relax. Even then it's a long process.
As to medical information just google cervical penetration. I'd be interested in hearing about any non-porn site that says it's possible unless the woman has a severe malformation of her cervix.

Well I did say 'relevant professional medical knowledge" but I also mentioned "reliable factual information" because I don't regard the internet as being that. I know for a fact that, on at least two occasions, there was nothing in there except her cervix and my penis and I know what I felt and how extraordinarily good it was, as it wrapped snugly around me. I did not have to force in, it dilated for me when I nudged it centre top.

You mentioned that when a woman has a baby it is a long process. Well that certainly is so and is necessary, because she has to fit a whole new baby through there but that only goes to show just what wondrous things her cervix is capable of. My penis is only of ordinary size and nothing even comparable to the size of most new babies. With that in mind I am not about to change my opinion of what most likely occurred. I don't have a medical degree and at this time I suspect that you, my friend, don't either so I am not prepared to debate the subject any further.

It is a subject that I would enjoy seeing a medical research group study, to determine the probability of a woman's body being capable of accepting a man, in that way, and in the correct circumstances.

You can live with your fantasy if it makes you happy.

www.medicalnewstoday DOT com/articles/321574

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More information
What is cervical stimulation and is it safe?
Medically reviewed by Janet Brito, Ph.D., LCSW, CST — Written by Nicole Galan, RN on April 21, 2018
Frequently asked questions
Before trying
Staying safe
Takeaway
The roles that the vagina and clitoris play in sexual pleasure are well-known. However, there is a third “spot” that some people say can produce intense, full-body orgasms. This form of stimulation is known as cervical penetration, although this term is misleading, as the cervix is not actually penetrated.

The cervix is a small canal that sits at the top of the vagina. There is a tiny opening that runs through the center and connects the vagina to the uterus. This is called the external os.

Except during childbirth, the cervical os is not open and is too small to be penetrated. However, the stimulation that occurs when a penis or other object rubs or pushes against the cervix is what causes a pleasurable sensation for some people.

During sexual arousal, the vagina will elongate, which pulls the cervix up and out of the way. As a result, cervical stimulation cannot usually be achieved with just the fingers and requires penetration by the penis or a sex "

MDs penetrate the cervix using a device (sound) that is 5mm or so in width. Even with that suze some women compare the pain to childbirth.

[veub]

As an experiment make a loose fist with a gap of an eighth inch. Then try to force a finger of your other hand into the middle. Don't squeeze or loosen the fist. See how far you get.

[OZCPL]

Verb
First, I wasn’t stimulating the cervix nor was I trying to.
And on your second comment, I didn’t force anything, there was no need to.
So that looks like you are needlessly filling this thread with text on a debate about a subject that looks like it can neither be proved nor disproved at this time.

I think both of us should return this thread to the OP and let readers read the fine story that they came here for.