A virtual cuckold?

[Domingo-ITA]

1. If you're in that state, why would you come back to get an umbrella? Would you care about getting wet if she was going to do what she said she was?

2.

3.

4. If she was really suicidal, do people get over that state so quickly to be happy, smiling and laughing by Sunday night?

You are probably right on your 2. and 3. points, but I would like you to be not too sure about 1. and 4.
People are known - and they are not rare - having long programmed their suicide for a certain day/hour, and still they purchased theatre tickets or took appointment to their dentist for the days after. People are also known to have perfectly dressed or have they hair treated by a hair dresser, minutes before they act. You just don’t know what to expect.
As for your wife’s rapid changing from that state to being happy, yes it’s possible. You may want to read the abstract of this research, for example: https://old.jpsychopathol.it/wp-content ... erugi1.pdf. It seems a well-established knowledge.

I am no psychiatrist so don’t take my words at face value. I am writing this because I am concerned you could underestimate the risks and then regret afterwards. A proper diagnosing by a psychiatrist, with a proper treatment if needed, is in order.

(however, I have two experiences with two familiars: a real suicide preceded by many attempts; and one attempt not repeated)

[whosbeensleeping]

Hope things are going okay and that maybe you got some rest.

[newaussiecuck]

1. If you're in that state, why would you come back to get an umbrella? Would you care about getting wet if she was going to do what she said she was?

2.

3.

4. If she was really suicidal, do people get over that state so quickly to be happy, smiling and laughing by Sunday night?

You are probably right on your 2. and 3. points, but I would like you to be not too sure about 1. and 4.
People are known - and they are not rare - having long programmed their suicide for a certain day/hour, and still they purchased theatre tickets or took appointment to their dentist for the days after. People are also known to have perfectly dressed or have they hair treated by a hair dresser, minutes before they act. You just don’t know what to expect.
As for your wife’s rapid changing from that state to being happy, yes it’s possible. You may want to read the abstract of this research, for example: https://old.jpsychopathol.it/wp-content ... erugi1.pdf. It seems a well-established knowledge.

I am no psychiatrist so don’t take my words at face value. I am writing this because I am concerned you could underestimate the risks and then regret afterwards. A proper diagnosing by a psychiatrist, with a proper treatment if needed, is in order.

(however, I have two experiences with two familiars: a real suicide preceded by many attempts; and one attempt not repeated)

Thank you, yes I do very much agree with your points. After reading back on this and thinking back on her physical state when she first came in, she was most definitely having some kind of episode/break. So yeah who knows what she was capable of. I don't take the situation lightly (which is why I had been a complete wreck for many days) but there's also a limit as to what I could carry. I had already reached that limit just before she snapped. I had nothing left to give her and needed to check out for a while and listen to uplifting music. I should have communicated this better with her and will try to so next time around. Having said that, our relationship and communication were non existent for 3 years so it's tough.

Her online relationship had blown up in her face and then she tried everything she could think of to get me back to her instantly (not remotely possible. Best case is months of work to get where she wanted to be) and so then she snapped/acted out when she couldn't get what she demanded from me.

I guess it's possible she stood outside to think of next moves and see if I cared enough to go find her. If I didn't come then yes maybe she would have done what she said. In that moment she clearly NEEDED me and I didn't abandon her when it really counted.

I guess that's why she's feeling better now. I am still watchful though.

[newaussiecuck]

Hope things are going okay and that maybe you got some rest.

Yes, feeling a lot better today and did manage some sleep last night, finally.

I have the lawyer appointment today. I just remind myself that I'm just setting some things up, getting some plans in place and making enquiries. No go button will be pushed today. One step at a time.

I have another update that I wrote last night which I'll post shortly.

[newaussiecuck]

Hope things are going okay and that maybe you got some rest.

Yes, feeling a lot better today and did manage some sleep last night, finally.

I have the lawyer appointment today. I just remind myself that I'm just setting some things up, getting some plans in place and making enquiries. No go button will be pushed today. One step at a time.

I feel like further discussions are needed before pushing any buttons, but having this groundwork in place will give me the confidence and leverage that I need in order to not back down during the discussion. Without a solid plan I'd likely just fold to her.

I have another update that I wrote last night which I'll post shortly.

[whosbeensleeping]

Good to hear. Looking forward to the update.

[newaussiecuck]

I saw L again last night!!!!! I swear to God we must have some kind of connection. She stayed away at the right time and came back at just the right time. I had only just written a couple of hours earlier that I was ready to see her again.

We had fun playing with the dogs and talked. It turns out she got up at 5am to start work by 7am so that she could get to the park. She said she was feeling bad for her dog stuck inside last few days. Secretly I probably thought she did all that to see me (probably wrong as you'll see later or maybe a bit of both).

We talked a lot more about what times are good for each of us to meet there. She'll start coming early on Saturday as her puppy school schedule had changed. So we agreed on what time to meet on Saturday.

When it was time to leave we went for a walk and talk. I suggested switching dogs, so she walked mine and I walked hers. She was asking about my mother in law's dog, I think clarifying the owner. I think she thought it was my brother's dog so I corrected her and said its my mother in law's dog. I then used the opportunity to bring up the topic and I mentioned how my wife and I are having major problems for 3 years, and mentioned I have an appointment tomorrow to start to work on splitting up.

She then mentioned about her partner and we spoke about that a bit. They've been together 4 years. She mentioned they're both kind of into their own thing at the moment. They both have their own dogs to keep them occupied and they're each working on starting their own businesses. I don't really know, but I'm getting the impression that maybe she's not head over heals for him. But she does have a partner so it's just friends for us. I guess you should never say never.

She's a very very good listener though and somehow I just find talking and opening up to her easier than probably anyone I've ever spoken to. So basically I ended up telling her the whole story of the last few years. About the online affair, not being there for my surgery or when dad was sick and missing my dad's funeral. I even mentioned what happened Friday night.

She was really surprised that I've been dealing with all of that because of how happy, confident, calm and together I always am. I told her that my philosophy in life is that if I've always done what's right and always done my best then I can be at peace with whatever happens after that. I said that I've gone so far above and beyond what anyone could have expected of me.

She then thanked me for feeling comfortable enough with her for sharing all that, she was genuine in that too.

So I guess we have a deeper connection now, albeit if only as friends. I do still wonder a bit about all that meeting her brother and her mother asking if I'm working etc. Never know I guess. I'm also not entirely sure that she got up at 5am so that she could go to the park purely for her dog. I also think upon her recent trip to Bali (with her partner as her brother had told me). So they've been together for 4 years, just went on holiday together to an island location and there was no proposal or engagement????? Then put that together with her comments about how they're kind of doing their own thing at the moment, and her mum clarifying that I'm working. Anyway I won't read too much into all this. We have a definite connection but at least for now it's platonic and where I probably need it to be.

I feel really good about the conversation and not devastated at all about her partner. It doesn't really change what we share or how we act I guess and she's a great friend to have if that's all it is.

I left feeling good about things and I guess I'll see her Saturday.

[whosbeensleeping]

Wow, that's powerful. Happy to hear it went so well.

[newaussiecuck]

Wow, that's powerful. Happy to hear it went so well.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence but I finally got a good night's sleep last night. I don't know what it is, but she just has this really calming nature. Wife is 100% opposite, I'm so much more tense and on edge since her online relationship blew up and that was before Friday's incident.

I never intended to tell her all that stuff, but again somehow I always end up talking about stuff with her when we do talk. I never ever ever really talk about myself to anyone, but somehow I find myself doing that with L. Strange in a good way I guess.

She also mentioned that she found out about the park through a friend of her brother's, and I know this lady quite well (it's not PG), but she always pats my dog a LOT when she comes. I haven't seen her for quite some tine, but I've known her for over a year. L said "So we have that connection". Interesting.

[newaussiecuck]

I saw the lawyer and I probably didn't learn too much new. So we're probably looking at a 50/50 split if we do go down that path. It really sucks to be honest, no adjustments for all the crap she's put me through as we have no fault laws here. I guess on the same vein if I start seeing someone even before we separate it wouldn't count against me.

I mentioned what happened Friday night and he said that was domestic violence and I could have called the police. I'm actually considering dropping by the police station and filling out a report.

He doesn't know about custody of the dog, what would happen.

[newaussiecuck]

Wife is a big old bag of fun to be around at the moment. She seemed happy when I came home from work last night. I took the dog for a walk and we then ate dinner. Then as I sat down I noticed that the sullen, quiet mood was back. I think the fact that I was feeling in much better spirits triggered her again. She seemed happy last few days since Sunday when I was really shaken up and upset.

As soon as I get over it and start feeling better about everything and standing on my own 2 feet again, she's triggered and the upset, sullen sad mood is back.

I can't keep walking around pretending to be upset so that she'll stay in a good mood. Wow!

Next day and I'm back at home working. She seemed ok this morning but just called me to see if I wanted a cup of tea. I said yes and went out a couple of minutes later. I could see she was upset. I asked her if she was ok, and she quietly said yes. I hugged her for a bit but there's nothing really that I can say.

I think most of the problem is she got dumped from her online relationship that's filled her life for nearly 3 years. I think she's probably also taken it as a personal affront that she got dumped. She's now trying to fill that void and finding she hasn't got much to fill it with. This is why I could not demand she end her online relationship. Could you imagine what I would be copping now if she ended it because I forced her to? I could not imagine it. I'll try hard to get her to go get a job.

I had also just been reading more about NPD and I think she has the "covert narcissist" type which can be much harder to spot. It's the same, but basically for when the person is introvert rather than the extravert big personality in the room type. All the tactics she's used are pretty much text book. I'm doing what's suggested by keeping boundaries etc to keep myself from being hurt again, so I think she's getting frustrated and upset that all her old tricks are no longer working on me.

When she's in these moods I think I mostly should leave her be to deal with the emotions herself. I give her a hug and show compassion when I notice them, but I shouldn't take on the responsibility of solving her problems. Solving her problems in her eyes seems to mean unrealistic things like quitting my job so I can spend my time with her and travel etc. She's living in fantasy land.

I'll ask her today if she'll be willing to go to counselling and set up an appointment. I found a psychologist that has information on their website about NPD but they also offer couples counselling. Seems like it might be a good fit.

[whosbeensleeping]

Sounds like a wise next step. It's good that you are arming yourself with knowledge, and that you are enlisting professional assistance. Wishing you good luck.

[newaussiecuck]

Sounds like a wise next step. It's good that you are arming yourself with knowledge, and that you are enlisting professional assistance. Wishing you good luck.

Thank you. I've decided that since it's only this coming Monday, I'll wait until my next session with the counsellor and get her input on next steps in light of what happened last Friday. I very much doubt she would willingly agree to see a psychologist/counsellor. Both because of her repeatedly stated distrust of them, to the fact that it's exceedingly rare for a narcissist to agree to counselling (if that's what she is, but I think it's overwhelmingly obvious now that she is). So it's 2 factors going against the likelihood of her agreeing.

I'll keep arming myself with knowledge to avoid getting hurt again. I had convinced myself that she would never be able to hurt me again, I had moved on within myself so thoroughly. However last Friday night she found a way. However, I'll use that experience to fortify my resolve that I need to get out.

[newaussiecuck]

I found a very interesting book on Amazon, that I think I'll purchase (might get the audio version as it will be difficult for me to get enough time and space to read it. It's titled:

"The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist: Recognizing the Traits and Finding Healing After Hidden Emotional and Psychological Abuse" by Debbie Mirza.

There's a few relevant points I can see already from the book description.

From the book description:
"The most common description a survivor of this type of relationship will use is crazy-making. The emotional abuse and gaslighting makes you question your own view of reality, and sometimes your own sanity. You will know after reading this book if the person you are with is a covert narcissist, and your experience with them will begin to make sense for the first time.

When most people think of a narcissist, they think of someone who is grandiose, obviously self-absorbed, sees themself as superior to others, and throws fits of rage when they don’t get their way. But what if the narcissist is one of the nicest people you’ve ever met? What if they are a great listener, seem to care about others, or are a pillar of the community? What if they are the mother that volunteers at the school, the husband that your friends wish they had, the boss that your co-workers feel so lucky to work for? Parents, spouses, partners, bosses, and friends who are covert narcissists come across as the nicest people. They can be spiritual leaders, therapists, moms who bring over casseroles to needy people, and bosses who everyone loves.

A covert narcissist has the same traits of narcissism as the well-known overt type. The difference is when they control and manipulate, when they demean and devalue you, it is done in such a subtle way you don’t notice it.

This type of narcissism is one of the most damaging forms because the abuse is so hidden and so insidious. You can be in a relationship with a covert narcissist that can last for decades and not realize you are being psychologically and emotionally controlled, manipulated, and abused. There are no visible scars with this form of abuse, and you are usually the only one that experiences their destructive and psychologically debilitating behavior."

This quote apparently many readers highlighted and it explains exactly what I wrote yesterday. About how she seems to get triggered now when I'm seemingly happy:

"Narcissists are deeply unhappy people. They get jealous of you when you are experiencing life and happiness. They do not want you to be happy and strong as those feelings threaten their ability to control you"


So yes, I'll be buying this today and start listening/reading. The comments in the reviews are also interesting to read, and helps me to realise that I'm not the only one going through this.

[whosbeensleeping]

Bravo, and thanks for sharing.

[newaussiecuck]

I didn't see L yesterday at the agreed time, and was starting to think I had overshared the other day. OK I know I did, but I think she was genuine when she thanked me for feeling comfortable enough to share that. I'm still feeling a little off centre until I see her again and see if she feels differently about me for it.

I then found out during that morning that L had actually been there the night before on Friday night. From what I heard she stayed quite a while and left just before I got there, so it seems she was wanting to see me. I got there very late as I was a bit late from work and I was not expecting her then. So she probably realised she couldn't make it Saturday and decided to go Friday night instead. It sucks so badly when I hear that I missed seeing her.

She wasn't there again last night either so maybe during next week. It's likely I'll see the councillor before seeing her again. Also, after everything I shared maybe it's good she can have some time to digest it. It would have been quite the revelation and maybe shock for her. I wish I didn't say so much. Sigh.


Wife was really aweful to be around yesterday. She called when I was at the park this morning and I didn't hear it, then she messaged saying she was going for a walk (maybe another threat like last Friday who knows). Then another missed call just before I got home. I then found her (still on her coat from her walk), in bed covers pulled up over her head. I climbed in and just hugged her without saying anything. I just don't know what to say to her anymore.

Reading the book has been a real eye opener so far. I'm only 1/4 of the way through. I couldn't get audio version. However I do see quite a lot of similarities. I was gobsmacked when I read a passage saying somthing like "You've probably just found yourself snooping or spying on their emails or computer use, and never ever thought you would do something like that". It's exactly what I did.

It said that we find it so hard to realise that somebody could lie so easily because we're not like that. Also the projection, being so often accused of what they're doing.

Another bit of information that I found so relevant for me. Apparently it's in middle age that it can really escalate (exactly where she is now). So many things learned.

The passive aggressive behaviour and manipulation attempts were off the charts. We went for a walk with the dog after lunch and for parts of it I could have sworn she was in a funeral procession.

Onto some good news. I now have phone numbers for 2 people from the park that I could call in times of emergency. One lady said she has a room to rent if I need it. The other guy is an older retired man and would also likely have a spare room. I feel a bit relieved to have some people to call on.

[whosbeensleeping]

That last part is awesome news! Glad the book is helping too.
Sorry to hear about the rest.
Hopefully connecting with L will become more frequent over time.

[newaussiecuck]

That last part is awesome news! Glad the book is helping too.
Sorry to hear about the rest.
Hopefully connecting with L will become more frequent over time.

Thank you, yes I really hope I see L in the coming days. No reason to think I wouldn't, but it does tug at me a bit. I guess I will find out a bit about her by how she reacts to what I shared. If she runs for the hills then I've probably dodged a bullet, but if she still seems keen then I'd think she's a keeper. I also think a bit about her partner situation. I want to ask her out now, but if she's not single can I still do that? I mean she's given indications that maybe she isn't seeing him as her life partner, but who knows. There's her apparent interest in me (but have I just been misreading signals?). Meeting her brother and mother. The trip away with him that she booked at least 6 months earlier that she seemed to regret going on (because of missing her dog), the no engagement from the trip away and the comment "We're doing our own things at the moment". So I guess I'm not really sure where we stand. Nothing is ever easy in love is it? Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and ask her out already.


As for the wife, I don't know where to begin. If she just came to me and said something like "I'm sorry I made mistakes and hurt you and screwed everything up. I'll do everything I can to make it up to you. Can we please get some counselling or something so that we can work through this together?" then I would at least give it a try if she was genuine.

Unfortunately instead of that she's lied further, hasn't owned up to anything, she's gaslighted and shifted blame for things she's done onto me. Her whole strategy for getting things back on track seems to be doing housework and demanding things from me that I don't feel inclined to give right now and then threatening suicide or just generally acting pissy when I don't immediately give in to her demands. It's not a strategy that's going to win me back. I'm hating every minute of being around her at the moment.

So after yesterday's 2 missed calls and text saying she was going for a walk, this afternoon there were no calls or texts when I went to the park. I did however return to an empty house! She was missing!!!!!! I checked the house and she was nowhere. I couldn't find her phone, so I called it. She answered hello but then hung up. I called back and she answered. I asked where she was and she said "I'm walking. I'm near the . . . . . . (pause, she didn't say where) ok I'll turn around". I think she was trying to make me think she was near to where she said she was going to go that previous Friday night. I went outside to wait and not too long after I could see her coming. Even if she sprinted home, she couldn't have made it back that far in that short time. She wasn't too far at all. She said "I went for a walk but I got lost".

So the fun times continue. I'll see what the counselor says in the morning. Hopefully she can recommend someone she can get help from.

[Long Lurker 34]

I didn't see L yesterday at the agreed time, and was starting to think I had overshared the other day. OK I know I did, but I think she was genuine when she thanked me for feeling comfortable enough to share that. I'm still feeling a little off centre until I see her again and see if she feels differently about me for it.

I then found out during that morning that L had actually been there the night before on Friday night. From what I heard she stayed quite a while and left just before I got there, so it seems she was wanting to see me. I got there very late as I was a bit late from work and I was not expecting her then. So she probably realised she couldn't make it Saturday and decided to go Friday night instead. It sucks so badly when I hear that I missed seeing her.

She wasn't there again last night either so maybe during next week. It's likely I'll see the councillor before seeing her again. Also, after everything I shared maybe it's good she can have some time to digest it. It would have been quite the revelation and maybe shock for her. I wish I didn't say so much. Sigh.


Wife was really aweful to be around yesterday. She called when I was at the park this morning and I didn't hear it, then she messaged saying she was going for a walk (maybe another threat like last Friday who knows). Then another missed call just before I got home. I then found her (still on her coat from her walk), in bed covers pulled up over her head. I climbed in and just hugged her without saying anything. I just don't know what to say to her anymore.

Reading the book has been a real eye opener so far. I'm only 1/4 of the way through. I couldn't get audio version. However I do see quite a lot of similarities. I was gobsmacked when I read a passage saying somthing like "You've probably just found yourself snooping or spying on their emails or computer use, and never ever thought you would do something like that". It's exactly what I did.

It said that we find it so hard to realise that somebody could lie so easily because we're not like that. Also the projection, being so often accused of what they're doing.

Another bit of information that I found so relevant for me. Apparently it's in middle age that it can really escalate (exactly where she is now). So many things learned.

The passive aggressive behaviour and manipulation attempts were off the charts. We went for a walk with the dog after lunch and for parts of it I could have sworn she was in a funeral procession.

Onto some good news. I now have phone numbers for 2 people from the park that I could call in times of emergency. One lady said she has a room to rent if I need it. The other guy is an older retired man and would also likely have a spare room. I feel a bit relieved to have some people to call on.

NAC - Seeing as you have the possibility of using two bug out rooms should your situation require it, give some thought to setting up a go bag too.
Remember to breath.

[newaussiecuck]

NAC - Seeing as you have the possibility of using two bug out rooms should your situation require it, give some thought to setting up a go bag too.
Remember to breath.

Thank you, yes that is a great suggestion. Actually the counselor suggested the same thing this morning and then I saw your post. She said that I could possibly even leave a few things in the car.

I have a few options of how to proceed. I might make an appointment for her to a doctor (General Practitioner) for a mental health assessment and see if she can get treatment. I think she will refuse. If so then I could call one of the helplines for advice or make a visit to the police station.

I know what she's trying to do. She's lost control of me and is trying to get me to cut ties with the outside world to try and regain control. That's why she's suggesting I work less and we take a long trip away. Also why she's acting out when I go to the dog park. Hearing that I have friends was like waving a red flag to a bull.

On Sunday when we were out and about we bumped into not 1 but 2 separate people that I know from the park. She could see how popular I am. I don't think she liked that one bit. Plus we ran into some random people with dogs, and she could see how easily I could strike up a conversation with complete strangers. She could never do that. It was quite an eye opener for her I think.

I can't fall for her emotional blackmail and I can't allow her to regain control over me. I'm a very different person now than I used to be. Although it will suck so bad, I also can't let fear of losing so much money in a divorce to be what keeps me in chains.

[newaussiecuck]

Another couple of quotes from the book I can relate to:

"CNs are very passive. They put the responsibility on you to make sure they are happy and blame you when they’re not."


This one is almost exactly what I'm facing right now:
"CNs will go to bizarre measures to sabotage you and keep you from enjoying your life. When you start doing things you want to do—things that delight you—they lose control of you and don’t have the power to keep you down. They use whatever means they have to punish you and keep you contained."

[Long Lurker 34]

NAC - Seeing as you have the possibility of using two bug out rooms should your situation require it, give some thought to setting up a go bag too.
Remember to breath.

Thank you, yes that is a great suggestion. Actually the counselor suggested the same thing this morning and then I saw your post. She said that I could possibly even leave a few things in the car.

I have a few options of how to proceed. I might make an appointment for her to a doctor (General Practitioner) for a mental health assessment and see if she can get treatment. I think she will refuse. If so then I could call one of the helplines for advice or make a visit to the police station.

I know what she's trying to do. She's lost control of me and is trying to get me to cut ties with the outside world to try and regain control. That's why she's suggesting I work less and we take a long trip away. Also why she's acting out when I go to the dog park. Hearing that I have friends was like waving a red flag to a bull.

On Sunday when we were out and about we bumped into not 1 but 2 separate people that I know from the park. She could see how popular I am. I don't think she liked that one bit. Plus we ran into some random people with dogs, and she could see how easily I could strike up a conversation with complete strangers. She could never do that. It was quite an eye opener for her I think.

I can't fall for her emotional blackmail and I can't allow her to regain control over me. I'm a very different person now than I used to be. Although it will suck so bad, I also can't let fear of losing so much money in a divorce to be what keeps me in chains.

NAC - Glad you saw a councillor.

[whosbeensleeping]

Good to hear you continue to learn and take steps.

[newaussiecuck]

I can't help thinking that I really screwed things up with L by revealing too much too soon, and then by not being there on Friday when she went.

I was sure that she would have been there last night, as it was really good weather and the weather is looking a bit bad now for the next week. Maybe I've just really badly misread her signals? I'm such a mess.


Or maybe I'm just feeling low after all the emotional stress and exhaustion from the suicide threats and not having slept properly for at least the last 3 nights. She's really worn me down and I'm feeling the fight leaving me.

I'm just feeling so stuck with every option available seemingly to lead to such hard times ahead, I'm not feeling the energy right now to face any of it. Then I see the facade she's putting up and it sometimes feels easier to just give in.

I know I will feel better again after some good rest.

[whosbeensleeping]

Yes, we all need time to recharge. When our brains are tired is when we especially overthink.
Guess the real prize is a fresh start. L would be the bonus prize!
Here's hoping of course you're lucky and get both!