A virtual cuckold?

[whosbeensleeping]

Don't forget the advice from the old guy at the park.
If you had children it would be a thousand times worse than your worst nightmare.
I would be careful about "both sidesing" yourself.
When someone shows you they are incapable of love, don't let them then go on to convince you to settle.
Compassion is good, but compassion for yourself first is where things must start.
Sorry if I sound vague or cryptic. It's past my bedtime.

Past bedtime or not I understand what you mean!

I just finished my next session with the psychologist and we spoke quite a lot about her behaviours over the weekend. Sore back and then going out to pull weeds and then further complaining of sore back etc. Then the splashed oil.

He reminded me that my primary responsibility is to protect myself because of her past behaviours and actions and attitudes have hurt and so far she keeps showing that she's still capable of hurting.

It's getting time to start asking her some questions.

He told me not to take on guilt by her actions if I haven't done anything to earn the guilt. Ie I never told her or encouraged her to go and work outside with a sore back. That's all on her.

When she's acting out like that I should remove myself from the situation and let her deal with it herself.

Interestingly the book I read had a bible quote giving the exact same advice!

"
It is better to live in a corner of a roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman. Proverbs 21:9
"

Okay that certainly resonates!

[whosbeensleeping]

The attention seeking behaviour thing is an interesting observation.

[newaussiecuck]

The attention seeking behaviour thing is an interesting observation.

He was mostly referring to the big stuff like guilt trips, seeking pity, hurting herself etc. But now I can see that everywhere with small stuff. It's an attention vacuum that sucks all my attention away onto her. It's probably why I'm finding it so hard to think of and do things I want to do for myself.

[newaussiecuck]

NAC- Thank you for your explanations. Ihave a clearer view now. To sum up, you’d want to get your marriage how it was before the three-years lag, but of course you can’t do much else than hope your wife comply, which sometimes she seems to do and sometimes not. Probably you’ll eventually need a full disclosure on her part, and apologies and explanations in order to be reasonable sure all this will not happen again - I agree with Long Lurker 34. Who knows, maybe you’ll be able to pass all this even with no disclosure.
I wish you well.

I just wanted to clarify this one a bit more.

In terms of conversations and disclosures these absolutely need to happen. A real relationship can't happen until they've been had and issues resolved. However we're not there yet, and may never be. We're not in a position to have such difficult conversations. Thus we don't have a real relationship at the moment, haven't had for 3 years and in all honesty we've probably never had a real relationship.

I'm realising that we had been able to make it work up until 3 years ago due to me basically giving up my identity and becoming a fake version of myself, one that she wanted to relate with. This is in no way healthy!

It was only very recently (couple of months) that I started seeing through the cracks and getting glimpses of who she is. What I've seen is very troubling indeed. Some behaviours are very difficult to understand and explain. Yet looking back they're also familiar and I can see versions of them have occurred in the past.

I'm still learning about myself, and about "wife" and need to learn and understand this prior to having the required conversations. I understand that trying to have those conversations now without the required work done on my side could even be dangerous.

Right now I'm in self preservation and learning mode rather than relationship mode. I just wanted to make that clear.

I don't feel that I'm "settling" right now, but in the absense of any other prospects there's no immediate decisions needed. Time to grow, understand, protect myself and be sure before taking any actions that are non-reversable.

I still need to build my defences against her manipulation tactics. Each time I think I've got all bases covered she pulls out another tactic that gets through. The two biggest being the suicide threat (won't fall for that again) and the "baby bird with a broken wing" tactic that was used last weekend. Sympathy. That one worked so I can count on it being used again. I'll need to be ready.

[whosbeensleeping]

From Nova Gibson on Instagram:

Narcissists do not have the ability to self-reflect. They do not see anything wrong in what they do.

They only see fault in your reaction.

They believe every argument is caused by you because to them, there was no problem with their actions until you reacted to them.

They 100% believe you are the problem and they are the victim.

[newaussiecuck]

From Nova Gibson on Instagram:

Narcissists do not have the ability to self-reflect. They do not see anything wrong in what they do.

They only see fault in your reaction.

They believe every argument is caused by you because to them, there was no problem with their actions until you reacted to them.

They 100% believe you are the problem and they are the victim.

Yes, from everything I've experienced and also read I can vouch that this is 100% accurate.

[newaussiecuck]

I've been making enormous strides in my learning and self reflection.

There was so much troubling behaviour and red flags at the beginning of our relationship that I misread or ignored. When she was being controlling I mistook that as dominance and being submissive at the time I felt everything was clicking nicely. However I can now see it wasn't the kind of BDSM dominance I was craving, it was deeply troubling behaviour that I misread.

When she was being super critical and picking out all of my faults I mistakenly saw this as a great opportunity to improve myself and get better. Unfortunately I was "improving myself" into a twisted version of myself that would give her the "narcissistic supply" that she needed.

I've come to realise that she had flaws, yet I also have flaws in my own personality that isn’t real good, and it's why I've allowed so much bad stuff to happen to me, even knowingly.

I've started reading yet another book and reading it is absolutely jaw dropping!! It's describing myself absolutely precisely!

The book is called "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Dr Robert Glover. So far it's very very good. I very clearly have "Nice guy syndrome" and I can't yet express what I want, have boundaries
, have much trouble saying no. I have much work to do on myself.

There's another book I'm also reading called "Unmasking Narcissism" and so far it's also very good at helping me to understand what's going on. Only just started reading it, but it seems to be very helpful.

[newaussiecuck]

I decided to stay away from the park this weekend, so haven't been since last Thursday.

A few reasons:

1. It's getting hard going all the time and looking for L and each time she doesn’t come I feel dissapointed. I needed a break from it.

2. Maybe if I'm not there so much it might somehow get back to L, and not to take for granted that I'm always there. I don't want it to look like I'm waiting ever so patently for her. My presence might be missed somehow. Maybe they'll wonder what's going on with me.

3. I have my mother in law's dog this weekend, and showing up with her again mightn't be for the best.

4. Lastly I wanted to experiment and guage wife's attutude if I don't go. So Saturday I didn't go in the morning as usual and took her and the dogs somewhere else for a walk and lunch instead. Result was remarkable, such a different attitude and pleasant all day. Confirming her shitty attitude was atrempts at manipulation and to train me not to go or I'll keep copping shitty attitudes.

Sunday after lunch I had to go to the shops (alone) and I drove past where I park my car for the park. It's where L always parks whenever she goes. I have never taken my dog there at that time. I can't be 100% sure but I'm 95% sure that I saw L's car there. Same make, colour. I SO wanted to pull in and walk to the park and see if she was there and talk to her. However I didn't have my dog with me, and I felt it might be alarming stalkerish behaviour if I did that. So I just kept going, did my shopping and the car was gone on my way home.

I SO wanted to stop and see if it was her, but it might well have freaked her out and backfired. I mean, what could I possibly say? "Hey, I was just driving past and saw a car that looked like it might have been yours, so I turned my car around and drove back. I parked my car and walked 300 meters just on the off-chance that it was you. Oh don't worry it's totally natural that I'm now in a dog park and didn't bring a dog with me. I know you've avoided coming at the times that you know I'll be there, and you're now here at a time I've never been and you have my mobile number but have never messaged but I'm totally sure you're wanting to see me, so here I am. So how are you?".

[Domingo-ITA]

I’d say, if you simply act natural, why should anyone be freaked by you? You seem a very considerate person so I am sure your fears of being freakish aren’t justified. In my opinion, just act natural without thinking too much to what L can think of you.

As for your wife. You are becoming a real expert in narcisism. Good. But this will not change her, only to help you live with a narcisist. Again, very good. But why should you learn how to live with a narcisist? All this pattern of wife’s behaviour - you reading books - you interpreting her and recognizing narcisistic traits - you forcing yourself to act in a way not narural or istinctive to you to protect yourself, seems very tiring.

[newaussiecuck]

I’d say, if you simply act natural, why should anyone be freaked by you? You seem a very considerate person so I am sure your fears of being freakish aren’t justified. In my opinion, just act natural without thinking too much to what L can think of you.

As for your wife. You are becoming a real expert in narcisism. Good. But this will not change her, only to help you live with a narcisist. Again, very good. But why should you learn how to live with a narcisist? All this pattern of wife’s behaviour - you reading books - you interpreting her and recognizing narcisistic traits - you forcing yourself to act in a way not narural or istinctive to you to protect yourself, seems very tiring.

Thank you, yes great observations.

In regards to your comments in regards to L, yes I need to be better at just being myself and not worrying too much what other people think. It's one of the traits I recognise in myself. Too much people pleasing and trying to be what I think others want me to be. I'm not sure how much of that was my nature before "wife" and how much was from being manipulated to behave that way. Probably a combination of both.

If I see L's car there again I'll take a walk and go in, with or without my dog. Maybe she's in fact waiting for me to put some effort in to her. Asking around about her more might also help. I guess I would soon find out and not have to die wondering.

In regards to wife and learning about narcissists and building defences etc. This is something I need to do for myself with or without "wife" around. In my current state I'm very susceptible to being manipulated and falling prey to another narcissist. Being the victim of narcissistic abuse, as unfortunately I have been, greatly increases the odds of it happening again.

I tolerated the intolerable for nearly 3 years, with little to no push back on my part Yes "wife" was horrible to do this to me, but on some level I also have to face up to the reality that I let her.

[newaussiecuck]

Actually, after rereading what I just wrote. No, I shouldn't be taking on the responsibility of her actions!

I didn't ask her to do this. She lied and manipulated her way into it. When I sat her down to talk about it she cut me off and told me to just do more work around the house.

I shouldn't be taking on the blame for her actions!

[Domingo-ITA]

In regards to wife and learning about narcissists and building defences etc. This is something I need to do for myself with or without "wife" around. In my current state I'm very susceptible to being manipulated and falling prey to another narcissist. Being the victim of narcissistic abuse, as unfortunately I have been, greatly increases the odds of it happening again.

Yes, of course please do all that in order to protect yourself now and in the future with other women. I didn't mean don't do that.

[newaussiecuck]

In regards to wife and learning about narcissists and building defences etc. This is something I need to do for myself with or without "wife" around. In my current state I'm very susceptible to being manipulated and falling prey to another narcissist. Being the victim of narcissistic abuse, as unfortunately I have been, greatly increases the odds of it happening again.

Yes, of course please do all that in order to protect yourself now and in the future with other women. I didn't mean don't do that.

Don't worry it's all good. I understand what you're saying and agree with you. It really sucks that I have to get put through all this and go to all these efforts. Then I look over and see that she's all happy and content with herself. Aaaarhh!!! Sorry I'm not feeling very good towards her tonight.

I can't say that I enjoyed coming home. Nothing happened, but I was just feeling annoyed seeing wife acting all happy and content while also dominating the conversation with rubbish and cutting me off when I tried to speak.

However I'm still feeling good tonight, just not towards her.

[newaussiecuck]

I wasn’t planning on going to the park again today as it was going to be hard to make it on time. However I did manage to get there, and I'm a bit glad that I did.

No, L wasn't there. However the lady (who knew my name and I speculated knows L) was there. While talking to her, the younger VN lady I mentioned a few weeks ago (the one who is moving overseas soon) came with her puppy for the first time at this time of day. The lady I was talking to saw the girl and puppy enter and said "Is that . . . " and then named L's dog!!!! I think she slipped up and wasn't meant to say that. So I asked if she's seen L's dog and she said that she hasn't. I mentioned that I haven't seen her for so long and making it obvious that I would like to.

Next time I see her I'll ask to pass on a message if she happens to know her or ever sees her.

I spoke to the girl for a bit just casually as a fellow dog owner.

Then onto N2. She was there again as she is for probably 4 or 5 of the days each week. I do have to say that I'm finding that I'm starting to like her a bit. Although I haven't tried to get too close to her as yet, there's just been lots of small conversations and over time I'm feeling like there's maybe a bit of a connection growing. I think it's fair to say there's been a few laughs, a few smiles and a glint in the eye when saying goodbyes.

Having missed the park for 4 days I really had a great time and feel uplifted after tonight's visit. I think the short time away has been really great for me. I'd missed it.

Finally I just completed a good workout.

[newaussiecuck]

From the no more Mr Nice Guy book:

"The essence of recovery from the Nice Guy Syndrome is the conscious decision to live one’s life just as one desires. I frequently encourage recovering Nice Guys to be just who they are, without reservation. I support them in deciding what is right for them and being that with all of their energy for the whole world to see. The people who like them just as they are will hang around. The people who don’t, won’t. This is the only way to have a healthy relationship. No one really wants to believe that they have to be false or hide who they really are to get someone to love them or stay with them. Yet, this is a common dynamic in the intimate relationships Nice Guys create."

"
A WARNING: If you are in a relationship, the program of recovery from the Nice Guy Syndrome presented in this book will seriously affect you and your partner. One of two things will happen: 1) Your present relationship will begin to grow and evolve in exciting and unpredictable ways. 2) Your present relationship will be sent to a long overdue grave.
"

Whether it's outcome 1 or outcome 2 that happens is anyone's guess. However either outcome is better than how things are at present. Working towards being myself, not holding back and saying what needs to be said, making sure my needs are met are all good things. It will take time.

[whosbeensleeping]

Good stuff.

[newaussiecuck]

So I'm definitely noticing N2 a lot more now, she was there again tonight. I must say that she does have quite a nice smile. I've also noticed that we seem to look at each other a bit. If someone tells a joke or makes a comment, or if one of the dogs does something of interest we always seem to look at each other to see the reactions, or to see if they saw it. I can tell she also takes note when I'm patting or playing with her dog, she seems to like that.

I think back to that day a couple of weeks ago when she wished the old retired guy good luck before she left, and then as soon as she left he asked me if I had seen L recently. I think she had asked him to find out.

Apart from that it was a fairly uneventful work from home day. Home life is definitely a lot more peaceful these days, much less drama and crazy behaviour. The craziness seems to mostly happen of a weekend. When things are going like this it seems really easy to drift along and feel like things are and will get better. However I still think back to feeling how good she is at manipulation and maybe it's a ploy to dial things back and play nicer for a while. It always seems like the next crazy episode is just around the corner.

[newaussiecuck]

Or, it could be that the lady who gave the knowing look is interested herself. She did walk past my area on the way out from that workshop and I turned around to see if it was N, but when I turned around and looked she caught my eye and smiled and kinda waved on her way past. At the time I just assumed she was being friendly on account of N but who knows. This lady spends more time on my floor than N, I see her a bit more often during lunch breaks and coffee breaks etc. She's also closer to the lady that came out to invite us for cakes than N is.

Who knows really. I don't even know her first name and have never spoken to her separately. She's always in a group of 3 and I speak to the group in general. Maybe she's shy?

So I just walked into the kitchen in the office to make coffee and that group of 3 from N's department were sitting there having coffees. Only a minute or two after I went in they all got up to leave. Again coincidence??? They just happened to be finishing up so soon after I went in?

Anyway so the girl that gave the knowing look to N on the cake day smiled and said hello to me on their way out, she was the only one and then she ran to catch up to the other 2 and there was a bit of excitement amongst them on their way out Strange.

[joel68]

To say the least. What do you make of it?

[newaussiecuck]

To say the least. What do you make of it?

Not sure, but when I add it to the below occurrence (the one from below that had the strange walk through of my floor was also there this morning), it seems it's something.

I had picked up some other odd behaviour a month or two back of these three, also in the kitchen like a look or comments amongst themselves but didn't think much of it being a once off strange occurrence.

Maybe she's trying to get noticed but too shy to actually strike up a conversation.

"Who knows really. I don't even know her first name and have never spoken to her separately. She's always in a group of 3 and I speak to the group in general. Maybe she's shy?"

I just bumped into one of the 3. Firstly she had no business being on my floor that I could see. 2nd she kind of went long way around to I think use the bathroom on my floor?? The bathroom on their floor is much bigger and nicer. She'd already gone past the kitchen which is the only other reason I could think of for being there. As we passed each other from opposite directions she kind of had a knowing smile and said hello and then quickly put her head down before she passed me. Like a quick eye contact and look away.

Not sure what that was about, probably nothing. None of them came into the lunch room today unless they're coming later.

[newaussiecuck]

Also I haven't seen or heard anything from N since my less than receptive approach at her desk Monday last week (9 days now). I won't be going back to that well again. I would need some definite indication from her (unlikely) before considering any kind of further approach.

[newaussiecuck]

I still need to build my defences against her manipulation tactics. Each time I think I've got all bases covered she pulls out another tactic that gets through. The two biggest being the suicide threat (won't fall for that again) and the "baby bird with a broken wing" tactic that was used last weekend. Sympathy. That one worked so I can count on it being used again. I'll need to be ready.

Well I knew it was coming but not so soon. The baby bird with a broken wing tactic seems to be back.

I got home from work a bit tired (long day and not much sleep last night). She seemed concerned something was wrong and asked if I was ok. I just said that I was a bit tired but ok. I then took the dog for a short 20 minute walk before dinner. When I got back home she was telling me she slipped a bit today and hurt her back. I asked how, and she said when shovelling soil for the garden (probably shouldn't be doing that so soon after the sore back just 8 or 9 days ago, but I didn’t say anything).

Maybe I didn’t give enough sympathy, ok I didn't give much as I don’t want to reward this kind of behaviour. So while eating dinner I could feel the mood shift VERY quickly and I started getting the silent treatment. I made a few comments about the show trying to ignore the silent treatment but was just met with more silence and a few sighs. Then she got up (gingerly) and got some heat cream. I offered to massage her back with it but that was declined with a very quiet "It's ok".

We watched another show in pretty much silence and then I left her to it and went to the back room and did a small workout. Just took it easy for 5 minutes and then did some stretching but at least it's something.

Not really sure what that's about, and at this point I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel trying to figure it out. Old me would have, but I'm done with taking on guilt for her actions. I still feel it, it's not pleasant, but I'm not going to stick around there and try and fix her. I offered to give a massage, it was declined, nothing further I can do.

I'm really starting to wonder if this is beyond narcissism and is going into sociopath territory.

[newaussiecuck]

Day 2, working from home today and hardly a word has been spoken.

I hugged her this morning, I told her "I love you" and meant it and I told her to look after her back, she said "It's ok". So she's spent most of the day working outside, wincing during lunch (mostly in silence). It's very uncomfortable.

I don't think there's much more that I can do other than show compassion and hugs, but nothing I can really do or say. Maybe she's upset that I haven't broken.

I just want her to be happy and healthy, but she has to do it herself. I can't fix her.

[newaussiecuck]

As if by magic, "wife" was in a much better mood yesterday morning, as if the craziness of the last 2 days never happened. I guess she got me again. I guess she got what she needed, reassurance that I don't want her gone (really??) and maybe more importantly knowing that she can dictate my emotions at whim.

Thursday morning, when I wrote my last update was VERY uncomfortable. She was in that really weird state again. I got up to make breakfast and in this really weird strange broken voice she told me that she doesn't want anything, not to bother with making her coffee. She lives off coffee and this was VERY strange. I made her one anyway. When she got up as I was about to take the dog for a walk I saw her standing there, so broken and defeated I felt like she was about to go and do something really stupid to hurt herself. I caved and huggged her and told her I loved her. She stood there facing away from me as I hugged her and she put her hand on mine and rubbed in and she cried quietly. I think maybe she was thinking to end it until I said that. End what I'm not sure, marriage or herself.

After the walk I came back and she was weirdly just sitting in silence, hands folded on the edge of the bed. Like in a trance or something. It was really weird and creepy as f*ck. I hugged her and asked if she was ok and she said "yeah" and then I mostly let her be while I worked from home.

I hadn't slept much the night before (which was 2 nights in a row) and I was probably in a weakened state from sleep deprivation, but I couldn't stop my human emotions to show compassion to someone looking so broken and defeated. I guess maybe she knows me too well and was counting on it. I'm starting to wonder if it was planned due to my poor sleep the night before all the craziness happened out of the blue.

I had started reading a bit about sociopaths and apparently it's not uncommon for them to use sleep deprivation as people are easier to control without sleep, it's another form of psychological torture. So on the third night (the night after I gave her the hug and said i love you) she woke me up with exaggerated tossing and turning and some loud sighs. Then when I woke up she told me she couldn't sleep and was getting up to watch tv. Why did she need to wake me to tell me that? Again I couldn't get back to sleep while she was out there. She came back in an hour or so later (her phone was still beside the bed) but I still couldn't get back to sleep due to wondering whether she was keeping me awake on purpose. An hour or so later I rolled over and I think maybe she confirmed my suspicions. She said "You can't sleep?" and I said "yeah" and then she said "Did I wake you earlier?". I could be wrong but it felt off, like she was wanting confirmation that she had indeed woken me and wanted to bask in and enjoy her accomplishment of keeping me awake. I think she might have been enjoying my discomfort in not having slept for 3 nights in a row and the part she played in it. The made up cold shoulder business out of nothing and then purposely waking me up.

Anyway so next morning (Friday) everything was back to "normal" and she was being nice again and still is again today (Saturday).

So there it is, I guess I got played again and can see how easily she can dictate my emotions.

[whosbeensleeping]

That doesn't sound like a situation that's going to get better.

Hopefully you are still working on an exit strategy.
I read this interesting quote:

Narcissism is not a personality disorder but an addiction to activating endorphins through
enmeshment.
April Dawn Harter, LCSW

Let me know if it speaks to you.

All the best.