intro and going deeper into situation

[Jeremie11231]

Have been following this thread for some time now and figured I’d show some support in terms of what a super job you are doing documenting your (and Emily’s) journey, and what a learning opportunity it is for even for some of the older dogs here like me.

IMO perhaps the most interesting post from you was on Dec 15/23 when you describe the details of Emily’s Birthday Party with Josh in attendance.

“It was also the first time I had to stand there openly in a group of people who knew us, where several people there knew what was going on between Josh and Emily. I couldn’t pretend this was just some bedroom thing we did between us, playing with fantasies.”

Sorry for backtracking somewhat at this point, but is there any way you would consider detailing your above quote any further in terms of your exact thoughts and emotions as you were standing there among these friends. Was Josh there alongside you as well? What was being discussed?

Also (and sorry for so many inquiries) was there any discussion/debriefing between you and Emily on what this had felt like for you later, after the two of you were settled for the night?

Thanks and great thread. Can’t wait for more updates.

Thanks so much for your feedback and appreciation!

Yes - the night of Emily’s birthday party was intense for me. I knew it would be, which is why I was surprised when she casually told me she had invited Josh to her party, like it was nothing, and not something to check in with me about. Since I didn’t really have a choice about whether to be at my own wife’s birthday party, especially since my own friends were also invited, it felt like a really bold move to put us (Josh and me) in the same place in front of all these other people. It felt like a power grab that I wasn’t ready for. Or like she was testing me. But I quickly decided it wasn’t really either. She wasn’t even thinking about it. That almost made it more infuriating – it was so casual. She wasn’t grabbing power to see if she could – she already had it, and truly wasn’t even thinking about – just doing what felt natural to her, inviting her lover to her birthday party.

It did still feel like a test, though – a test she wasn’t watching for me to ‘pass’, but one that would be a problem if I were to fail. And she clearly just expected me not to fail.

As for what was going through my head while at the party – well, to be honest, I was very focused on just keeping things smooth and making it not awkward. Strangely, I was busying myself with making sure Josh didn’t feel uncomfortable, since he didn’t know anyone else, and Emily was hard to get to because it was her party and so many people were talking to her non-stop. I got Josh a drink, and I introduced him to people I thought he might like talking to, and I filled in the gaps by just talking to him myself – asking him politely about work, his life in general.

One way to approach the situation would be to pretend like nothing was what it was, and just connect with him like I was a totally different person and all that other stuff was a game for the bedroom. But that didn’t feel comfortable because we both knew it wasn’t a game and it would be kind of laughable for me to act tough and just bypass the fact that he was fucking Emily in a way I could not, and that I had been showing extraordinary deference to him coming over to do that, repeatedly. So, I walked this fine line, not acting tough or like none of that were true, but also not acting ridiculous either – acting “normal”, but just very soft and respectful, like I would to an authority figure or an older brother I looked up to. It’s all the little things – body language – standing with a humble posture, being overall pleasant and agreeable, making eye contact only for brief moments, but more of it when he was speaking to me, showing with my face that I was giving him my full attention.

I felt humbled – I knew, for instance, that Josh was seeing how I acted with all our friends, and if I were to act really differently from the humble and compliant guy he knew, that would feel kind of silly and embarrassing – like I knew he’d be thinking it was funny. So it forced me to remember, in that social situation, the truth: I’m a guy who has accepted what almost no man would accept: Total stripping down of my masculinity by my wife and by Josh, who was more than happy to displace me from the bedroom.

And of course I did feel self-conscious. I knew her close friends knew who Josh was, and the ones who knew who Josh was also knew that I knew and accepted it. So I knew they’d be looking over at us with curiosity to see how I acted toward him face to face. I had to just absorb their eyes on me as I stood there next to Josh, looking up at him (taller than me), nervous, deferent, and respectful, and obviously accepting him as the alpha male over me, publicly, in my house at my wife’s birthday party.

You have to understand – Josh is extremely good looking, imposingly tall and built, and has this obvious big dick energy about him. And the way Emily responded to being near him, looking up at him with admiring eyes – you’d have to be willfully ignoring that she had sexual affection for him. But she wasn’t doing anything overt to show that. Technically, they were staying within the bounds of normal friendly interaction. Had there not been extended family members of hers at the party, I don’t think she would have held back at all. But because there were several older family members there, she wasn’t interested in having to explain things to them, or to ambush them with seeing her caressing the chest of this big guy and having that confuse them.

As for debriefing afterwards – I don’t remember having any specific conversations about it. It was all just added to the growing body of experience of the new normal. I never did say a word of protest about her inviting him, before or after. I just completely accepted it. Just like she knew I would…

[Jeremie11231]

Thank you so much for this thread. I’m going through the same struggle right now with the loss of control. My wife is about to take on a (probably) long-term, very regular lover. I’ll write about it in my own thread, but your eloquent description of the desire/fear of the truly “involuntary” and how you are coping with releasing control is extremely helpful.

Thanks, Wanderlust! hope it is helpful to you -
Just read your own post and will reply there - here, I guess I would just say that it is very possible to absolutely love the letting go.

[Angsty Cuck]

Amazing story! How often does Josh fuck your wife? How often do you fuck her?

[trecital]

Your story of being at a party, and your wife's boyfriend being there, brought back memories. Short version, because I don't want to divert your thread......I discovered my wife having an affair with a work colleague, and encouraged her to continue with him. We went to quite a few parties with him there. They were mainly parties of his friends, so we frequently didn't know many people there.
His mates were very sociable with me, being keen to chat. It took me a few parties to realise that they were deliberately trying to keep me out of the way while my wife and boyfriend went off to get to know each other better. They, at first, thought that I was totally unaware of what my wife was up to. But more of them got to know that I knew. One or two were quite bold with their questions about my wife and her 'freedoms'. Was a bit embarrassing sometimes, but I generally got a perverse thrill from being the cucked husband.

[Jeremie11231]

Amazing story! How often does Josh fuck your wife? How often do you fuck her?

Recently he's been coming over at least once a week.
For me, sex with Emily has become mostly non-PiV sex -- usually mutual masturbation and other things.
PiV sex has dwindled to about once a month or less - I haven't kept track.

[JackCUK]

Jeremie, thanks for sharing this. As others have said your emotional honesty, thoughtfulness and articulacy make this a particularly compelling thread.

Thank you!!

I have a few questions, if you have time to answer.
First of all you said that you'd confided in a couple of your friends about your cuckold status, and that some of them were at the Birthday party and chatted with you and Josh there. How did you come to tell your friends, what was your reason for doing so? What were those conversations like? And can you say more about how it was for you to be in 'public' with Josh and the friends that knew who he was to you and Emily? I ask partly because I can't imagine ever sharing that kind of information with my friends; I think it would be intensely humiliating in a way that was too extreme to eroticize.

The first people I told were two different "best-friend-level" female friends who are both very sexually experienced, open-minded, queer, etc. And it made perfect sense to them, they just thought it was great. I think connecting to sex-positive people is key!
On the topic of other people knowing, and being "out" - I could write a long post just about that -- and maybe I will. At the sober/serious level, I think it can be really helpful and relieving -- just to discover that it actually is okay and we are all complex, multi-faceted beings, personally and sexually, and people understand that, especially people who know you and love you. And that the thing in me that makes me feel ashamed to think of telling about this to a friend is the same thing that feels ashamed about myself in the privacy of my own mind. So, being 'out' to anyone I'm *actually* really close with as a friend has led to me just not feeling ashamed in myself, with myself. Also, sharing vulnerably invites vulnerable sharing from others, and everyone has lots of stuff of their own to share. And now people tell me all kinds of things. At the more sexy level, I find it to be a huge turn-on to be 'outed' to certain people -- specifically, female friends of Emily's. Something about that -- I think lots of people here could relate to that -- it's half a mystery why that is such a turn-on, but there is something about the mischievous, teasing knowingness (even if they never say anything) of other attractive females... So at the party for instance, there were a couple of those there. And then there were some very close male friends of mine who knew who Josh was. Like a lot of things in all this, there was that mix of things going on, a blend -- sexy turn-on + slightly uncomfortable exposed feeling + healthy vulnerability and integrating different parts of my life and experience.

But you bring up an important point -- there is such a thing as a situation being too 'intense' to eroticize -- at least *yet* -- I think it's often just a question of getting accustomed to the heat. It's a mistake to look to the left and right and see what someone else is doing and feel like you should be able to do the same. It's important to know what's too much. (And there can be just *slightly* too much, which is hot, versus just completely too much, which is not hot.) Like with food -- we take these little peppers that make chemicals to ward off animals from eating them, and we sprinkle them on our food. We like a little bit of a hot sting on our tongue. Some like just a little black pepper. Others like super hot habanero peppers.

I think straight men who never even think about cuckolding but who look at porn are basically doing black pepper -- they're aroused seeing a woman they find attractive with another man. But they don't have an actual personal relationship with that woman, and they don't feel threatened, and they don't feel like a cuck for looking at that because it's considered a normal male thing to find that hot. So that's like black pepper. Just a little tingle. Full on cuckolding with your actual wife in person, that would be extra hot habanero. But to me, it's just one big spectrum. And obviously, this is a ridiculously simplistic analogy that omits a lot of relevant elements, but I still think it's helpful to think of it in this way.

Secondly, although you've written a lot and very eloquently about your 'cuckold training' sessions I'm still curious. What do you think those sessions mean to Emily? It's obviously very hot that you are coaxed to accept your status and teased about her lover's prowess while you masturbate/are masturbated by her, and I can see that it would be intimate. But beyond that it sounds like you really gain a measure of acceptance or comfort about your situation from this practice. How much do you think, for Emily, that these sessions are kinky/intimate play and how much a real attempt to 'retrain' you?

Yeah - good question -- those sessions are really fun for her. There are things in sex that are nearly equal in pleasure for both partners at the same time, but most of the time, there is some asymmetry, and one person might be getting more physical pleasure while another gets more of another kind of pleasure, like the pleasure of giving pleasure. And good sex is about being okay with moving around in those asymmetries. Emily knows that this kind of play really turns me on, and that turns her on. She also *genuinely* likes exercising her power and playing with it. It's fun and fascinating to her. As far as how 'serious' or genuine the intention of "retraining" -- well, like a lot of things in all of this, it's that difficult-to-describe blend between playful and serious. And yeah, there is so much intimacy even just in sharing that space together and playing with it. And that's serious! ha ha. I think the idea of "retraining" is a really hot idea, and that it's an open question/mystery whether or not those things seriously 'retrain' me in the sense of having the power to take a guy and completely change what they like and want. I think it's more about scratching away some barriers to letting go into what a guy (me) actually already wants or is open to, but is afraid of openly wanting or surrendering to. And inviting me to settle into it more. And for that, it works great!

The other thing those sessions mean to Emily is, I think, they are reassuring to her. Especially in the beginning, there are those doubts that surely come up, like, "am I hurting my husband?" and "is he *really* okay with this?" or "he said he was okay with this, but is he really okay with *this*?? now that I'm having *this* much intense fun?" and it's reassuring to get a kind of answer to that by making me squirm around and reaffirm my okayness with all of it. And that then allows her to go back and enjoy sex with Josh even more, to plunge herself into that exploration with even more abandon, and more sexual pleasure. And that's another thing that is real and serious, that comes out of playful play.

And finally, I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on Emily's 'transformation'. From what you describe she is petite, loving and gentle with submissive tendencies. But it seems she is now quite at ease with teasing and dominating you in quite humiliating ways. Are you surprised at how she manages this? Do you think that taking control over you in this way is a real turn-on for her, or is it more that she loves the sex with Josh and that 'forcing' you to accept it is a way for her to enjoy that? i.e. is it a means to an end for her?

Yeah, that's another really good question (it seems you think about lots of the same things that I do!) --
So, Emily is -- still -- overall a very gentle and submissive woman. Even her teasing and domination is never cruel or biting -- it is more of a loving 'you're so cute' quality, with a touch of dead serious authority to it. Or sometimes more than a touch. Her dominant side is something she has uncovered, and that she clearly enjoys. She also knows I enjoy it. So it is both -- she genuinely gets turned on by realizing her power and playing with it. AND she also does some of it because she loves me. And it turns her on to see how I react to it. So it's just round and round - a mix. One way of answering your question: a lot of the enjoyment she gets from having a sexual relationship with Josh comes from the pleasure of cucking me, and our dynamic around that. BUT, if I simply didn't exist and that whole part of the experience wasn't there, she would absolutely still meet Josh and want to have sex with him, and have lots of sex with him, and thoroughly enjoy it. And that is really hot to me. In fact, I wouldn't want it any other way.

I suppose what's behind all these questions is that it seems that you are finding a way to reconcile your kinky desires with Emily's needs, even though you are maybe starting from slightly different places, if that makes sense? For instance, you started off (this time at least) more as swingers or having opened your relationship, but you are now most definitely a cuckold. And what I wonder is, how much of that transition is because you both felt and kept feeling like this dynamic was working for you, or - the slightly different position where you and Emily are getting your needs met but in a way that is about your individual satisfaction rather than as a couple?

It's both / and.
It *started* with me having fantasies and sharing them with Emily.
She responded with being open to fulfilling my fantasies, but also out of genuine interest just in having sex with another guy, just because that's something she knew she would enjoy, regardless of whether I liked it or not.
Then, the cuckolding kink dynamic between us felt really hot for us, and her seeing other guys felt like something she was doing to feed into that.
But then, at the same time, she was really and truly enjoying sex with other men, having nothing to do with our cuckold dynamic.
And then, naturally, that sex for her developed into its own thing -- real sex, amazing sex, real connections, especially with Josh -- that had its own life and momentum. And at that point, the cuckolding dynamic between us became a way to connect and to keep me supportive of her newfound freedom and awesome sex life.
We both have our own individual satisfactions from it, and we also both have our shared satisfactions from it.
If I didn't like being dominated or teased, she would simply not do that stuff, and continue having sex with Josh. The fact that I do respond to that in the way I do, just makes it more fun for her.
While she's having sex with Josh, the fact that I'm out there and might hear them is a turn on (for both of them), and the fact that she is married and it feels more naughty and hot, all of that is a turn on, but mostly their sex is just about their sex and how good it feels, not thinking about all the cuckold stuff.

I thought what you wrote about the eroticim of 'involuntariness' was really insightful, and it really resonated with me; with both chastity and cuckolding, the involuntariness or total loss of control is what makes it so hot. But I guess for me (and maybe a lot of cuckolds or wannabes) the tension is between our wives/partners enjoying something that takes them out of our 'control' (or takes events out of our control) but them doing so partly because they want to bring something back into the relationship; and a different situation where they enjoy that same thing (sex with others) and humour or accept our cuckold desires because it enables them to continue with something they need for other reasons. That's not a judgement on either situation; people come to all sorts of compromises in relationships and everyone has to do what works for them.

Yeah, control and 'involuntariness' are interesting and complicated -- what I want, and I think what most people want, is to be plunged into the feeling of lack of control and involuntariness, but when and *because* it leads to deeper connection, not less.

But I suppose for me the potentially problematic thing about that 'involuntariness' is that it means that it automatically fulfills my fantasy without the need for my partner to do more. Or to put it another way, it might satisfy my kink (need to be controlled/out of control) without her having to intentionally do anything to, or with me. And while maybe the acts performed are the same, I feel like it's healthier for our relationship (or at least, I would rather) if they are something she is doing where a significant part of her motivation is to turn me on. The one scenario is something we are definitely doing together, whilst the other is a thing we are doing separately, though it happens to bring us both pleasure.

Chastity is like that -- it's not likely to be fun if you're just locked up and literally no one even cares. It doesn't take much, though, to infuse the entire experience with a lot of turn-on, because it feels like someone is consciously and intentionally holding the key, aware of your predicament, and that there is meaning to it all, to them and to you. That kind of goes for a lot of this stuff.

I'm mainly interested because your posts are so insightful and it has inspired me to reflect on my own situation and desires, and as you are really living it, I'm curious to know more how these issues have been resolved in your relationship. For me, I am still a wannabe and though we have come very close and constantly flirt with the possibility, I think neither of us quite trust that if she did take the plunge and find a lover, that it would end up being something we did 'together'; for her part, because she doesn't naturally have a desire to dominate me or play with the cuckold dynamic; and for mine, because I fear that I would (and do) push her deeper because the 'involuntariness' satisfies my kink, even though she is not doing it 'for' or even 'with' me. So it would become more like masturbation for me (in not just the physical sense but the real sense of a solo, selfish activity), while she satisfied a need for intimacy only outside the relationship.

Yeah - well, I think it can be "both/and", like it is for me/us. And that it kind of has to be 'both/and'. It's not realistic for someone to have amazing sex with someone else and not really enjoy that and have it be something that exists outside the 'box' of your relationship and your kink dynamic together. It is its own thing, a very real pleasure and a real connection between your partner and another person. AND it can be brought back into your connection and fire it up even more, and bring you closer together. Or not -- it could just literally be a totally separate thing and you maintain and build your connection around other, unrelated things.

But for me, a key thing has been to be able to accept that the 'final outcome' does not have to be, and is in fact unlikely to be, that I am the ultimate last stop "best" most intimate and hottest sex partner for her -- she's going to have sex that is better and more intimate with Josh -- better and more intimate in *some* ways, and not others. And our sex will be "better" and more intimate in other ways. There's only one me, and our connection is its own thing. But I had to let go and accept that it's okay for her to have certain kinds of sexual pleasure and connection with someone else that I don't have to (and can't) "top off" and reclaim or "best" -- honestly, for anyone, cuckolding situation or not, to me the only viable way to live is to let that go. That was hard for me, though! It's supposed to be hard... we're human.

Hi Jeremie, as you can tell (!) I don't often have time to post here but I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough and thoughtful response to my questions.

Also please do keep us updated - your writing is always fascinating. Just seeing your recent post raises a question for me. There is something innately humiliating about the difference in sexual frequency (PIV sex) between you and Josh. Is that difference something that enters into your play with Emily, i.e. does she comment on it or use it to humiliate or tease you in any way? If so, and it's anything you could share, I'd love to hear more about it.

In any case thanks again.

[JackCUK]

I don't want to interrupt Jeremie's thread, but, JackCUK, I wasn't entirely sure I followed what you were saying, above.
And I think that the reason I found it difficult was that I don't know your story. Therefore it was difficult to relate what you were saying, to what has happened in your sexual relationship.
Maybe you could post something of your story in a separate thread?
I'd be interested to hear it.

Hi trecital,

I did actually at one point detail some of our earlier explorations but it seems to have been culled at some point. I don't often get time to write but if/when I do I might recount some of it. Thanks for your interest.

[ucaneffher]

Jeremie11231, you have seriously described things that I have been trying to convey and express while telling my own story. For 15 years I have been trying to put my experience and feeling into words and I don't possess the talent and skill that you have to do so.

You have described every emotion, transition, and even experiences that I lived for a total of 7 years. Like yourself, I witnessed the miniscule transitions that my then submissive girlfriend was making within her new freedom. Everything that she did was so gradual and mildly incremental that I would not notice as she took control over the situation until I would put the perspective into words and realized that we weren't in 'point 4' anymore but instead she had taken us to point '58' and without me having felt the transition. It's truly amazing to watch our women take control in such a subtle manner that we don't necessarily feel emasculated but the fact is that we are indeed giving up control and submitting, even if we aren't noticing our submission.

Like your wife, my gf started doing this for us and as my fantasy but soon after it was fully for her. She was single, she was available, and she was making the calls as to who she dated, when she dated, how long she dated, how often, etc... I was not asked, I was only informed of her plans for the same reason just so that our plans wouldn't clash but that fact was that it would happen if she wanted it, and she did. My role wasn't to allow or give permission, my role had become to be her support when, especially when she was overwhelmed and needed time for various men. I took over many tasks so she could accommodate 2, 3, sometimes 5 different men in a week. That was my way of acceptance and being supportive of her choice to tackle on multiple men.

In the beginning she would ask or at least tell me prior to going on a date or going to spend time with a man but as she took more control of the situation, I would find out afterwards, sometimes not even right away but days later. Most of the time I'd find out that she was spending the night when it was already late and she had been having sex all evening and felt tired to come home.

Just like with you, she trained me and I accepted our new normal. Sometimes I'd object but overall I was very compliant and just accepted new implementations that she would make in our relationship, she would initially repeat them a lot until I no longer objected and became supportive of the things that I initially fought.

After doing some self reflection on my relationship with her, I would say that it took her just under 2 years to fully train me to her specifications and the following 5 years were of me being a compliant partner who was essentially living as her cuckold full time. 5 whole years I was a cuckold in the bedroom and outside the bedroom. It was my new normal and reality. Just like with your wife, mine started bringing her boyfriend around our circle, family, even social media. People soon learned that I was accepting of her relationship and even supportive of it. Many if not most of her friends knew that it was her lover who gave her PIV orgasms, that he was the one ejaculating inside of her, many of my friends also ended finding out because she wanted them to find out and not because it was my choice yet I accepted her call. All of our mutual friends on social media had front row to her not so private relationship with her boyfriend and everyone saw the same pictures of her hugging, kissing, holding, sitting on his lap, partying, vacationing together date nights and I had no say about her decision to make their relationship Facebook official and all I could do was answer everyone's curiousity about her with another man.

As a dominant man who is masculine, I admit that her two years of training truly made me a whole new man. I went from stag to full blown cuckold and still cannot believe that I was not only accepting of how she changed me psychology but I fully let go and just embraced being her cuckold 24/7 365, for over 5 years entire years and not only that... Despite not being with her, her training remains deeply rooted within and now in my current relationship, I want to continue things the way I left off in the last relationship but I know that if my current girlfriend accepts, we will have to start from the bottom again. My current girlfriend is naturally dominant so things can really intensify if she ever gets into it and comes with momentum which could be scary.

Her training and me living as her cuckold 24/7 for so many years followed me all these years later and naturally has me wanting to transition into what I feel is the next natural progression. She had a long term serious relationship where her boyfriend became her primary but I was still involved. Although he was her primary, they never lived together. In my opinion the next progression from where her and I left off would be a poly/cuck relationship where the 3 of us live together under one roof but he is her primary partner and I am the secondary partner/spectator/3rd wheel (whichever you want to call it) they are the couple full time and he shares her with me once in a Blue Moon in order for us to maintain a connection/intimacy but normally they'd share a bed at night while I hear them making love from my own bedroom. I wish I could be normal but I feel that after 5 years of accepting all of her conditioning, my ex truly rewired me to accept and like what she was doing and to me that is the path that she was directing our relationship, to me becoming a very accepting cuckold who enabled her and was supportive of all of her decisions, even if it meant watching her give herself to another man.

Again, thank you for such clear and perfect example of self expression that allowed me to plug my own numbers into the formula. I lived what you lived/are living and it is a scary but amazing way to live.

[Jeremie11231]

Just seeing your recent post raises a question for me. There is something innately humiliating about the difference in sexual frequency (PIV sex) between you and Josh. Is that difference something that enters into your play with Emily, i.e. does she comment on it or use it to humiliate or tease you in any way? If so, and it's anything you could share, I'd love to hear more about it.

No, she does not specifically tease me about that -- well, it's hard to say, depends what you call tease...
Mainly she'll just do it -- or *he* will do it -- keep coming over and fucking her more frequently than I can end up keeping up with.

I might have talked about this before, but the way I envisioned it when we first agreed she would try having sex with another guy -- the way we both envisioned it -- was that it would always be this thing added on to our own sex life, as a really hot thing to spice our sex up. And that it would be something where of course we had sex together far more often than she would have sex with someone else. And that's how it was for quite a while. In fact, there were times when there was a lot of life stress going on and we hadn't had any sex in a month or more, and she would actually avoid seeking or making plans with someone else until she and I were back online together.

But then eventually there was such a time like that and even though we weren't having sex, and I was definitely not in a good mood (in general) nor a cuckold frame of mind, but she went ahead and said yes to Josh coming over and fucking her. And it turned out that did not make things worse between us -- if anything, it actually helped. I immediately snapped into that cuckold way of seeing things. My mood improved. I was more attentive to her.

Naturally following that, there came the first time where Josh came over to fuck her again even though he had just been over days before and I hadn't even had a chance to have sex with her since then. Right there, that's the turning point -- might be only twice in a row where it's him and not me, but that's the beginning. Soon it's 3 or 4 times he has fucked her and I haven't. And it becomes understood that not having had sex with me in a while is not a reason to say no to Josh. Meanwhile, it also becomes more and more understood that sex with me and sex with Josh are two completely different things, and also that it’s not just about Emily and me and what we are doing together and how often, but that Josh has sexual needs that are important.

So that's how it happens -- then soon I realize it's been weeks and Josh has fucked Emily 5-6 times (or really 10-12 times, since he always fucks her two different times when he is here) while I have had only hand play from her. And then there was the first time he came over two nights in a row.

[DLD]

Just seeing your recent post raises a question for me. There is something innately humiliating about the difference in sexual frequency (PIV sex) between you and Josh. Is that difference something that enters into your play with Emily, i.e. does she comment on it or use it to humiliate or tease you in any way? If so, and it's anything you could share, I'd love to hear more about it.

No, she does not specifically tease me about that -- well, it's hard to say, depends what you call tease...
Mainly she'll just do it -- or *he* will do it -- keep coming over and fucking her more frequently than I can end up keeping up with.

I might have talked about this before, but the way I envisioned it when we first agreed she would try having sex with another guy -- the way we both envisioned it -- was that it would always be this thing added on to our own sex life, as a really hot thing to spice our sex up. And that it would be something where of course we had sex together far more often than she would have sex with someone else. And that's how it was for quite a while. In fact, there were times when there was a lot of life stress going on and we hadn't had any sex in a month or more, and she would actually avoid seeking or making plans with someone else until she and I were back online together.

But then eventually there was such a time like that and even though we weren't having sex, and I was definitely not in a good mood (in general) nor a cuckold frame of mind, but she went ahead and said yes to Josh coming over and fucking her. And it turned out that did not make things worse between us -- if anything, it actually helped. I immediately snapped into that cuckold way of seeing things. My mood improved. I was more attentive to her.

Naturally following that, there came the first time where Josh came over to fuck her again even though he had just been over days before and I hadn't even had a chance to have sex with her since then. Right there, that's the turning point -- might be only twice in a row where it's him and not me, but that's the beginning. Soon it's 3 or 4 times he has fucked her and I haven't. And it becomes understood that not having had sex with me in a while is not a reason to say no to Josh. Meanwhile, it also becomes more and more understood that sex with me and sex with Josh are two completely different things, and also that it’s not just about Emily and me and what we are doing together and how often, but that Josh has sexual needs that are important.

So that's how it happens -- then soon I realize it's been weeks and Josh has fucked Emily 5-6 times (or really 10-12 times, since he always fucks her two different times when he is here) while I have had only hand play from her. And then there was the first time he came over two nights in a row.

It sounds like things are heating up between them. And some of the limits that they may have been putting on themselves are slowly falling by the wayside.

[Jeremie11231]

Jeremie11231, you have seriously described things that I have been trying to convey and express while telling my own story. For 15 years I have been trying to put my experience and feeling into words and I don't possess the talent and skill that you have to do so.

You have described every emotion, transition, and even experiences that I lived for a total of 7 years. Like yourself, I witnessed the miniscule transitions that my then submissive girlfriend was making within her new freedom. Everything that she did was so gradual and mildly incremental that I would not notice as she took control over the situation...

Her training and me living as her cuckold 24/7 for so many years followed me all these years later and naturally has me wanting to transition into what I feel is the next natural progression. She had a long term serious relationship where her boyfriend became her primary but I was still involved. Although he was her primary, they never lived together. In my opinion the next progression from where her and I left off would be a poly/cuck relationship where the 3 of us live together under one roof but he is her primary partner and I am the secondary partner/spectator/3rd wheel (whichever you want to call it) they are the couple full time and he shares her with me once in a Blue Moon in order for us to maintain a connection/intimacy but normally they'd share a bed at night while I hear them making love from my own bedroom....

Again, thank you for such clear and perfect example of self expression that allowed me to plug my own numbers into the formula. I lived what you lived/are living and it is a scary but amazing way to live.

Wow - first, thank you so much for the compliments on my writing - I really appreciate that.
Second, just the summary you laid out of your own process was super hot - absolutely loved it - thank you!

Re: the primary/secondary/poly topic --
Emily and I definitely believe in poly - we had a conversation about that and agreed that "just sex" is not even really desirable, if it is even possible (I have my opinions on that -- maybe for some people sex isn't emotional, but I see it as intrinsically very emotionally impactful) and that Emily should never feel like she cannot *love* a man she is having sex with. And I think there are different kinds and flavors of "love" -- sexual love is a thing. And affectionate, long-term partnership love is a thing. The way we love a little kitten or puppy, and love a motorcycle ride are very different.

I do not see things in terms of primary and secondary, though --
Emily has different needs, and it's not that some of them are above another -- well, there isn't really a need to place them above one another, because they can be met in different way.
I like to think about evolution and the whole bigger picture, and relating it to modern relationships and marriage.
Any woman, or any person, really, has different needs, that often conflict, and are unable to be met by any one single person.
A woman who wants children wants a partner who can be a good father, be stable, loyal, dependable, supporting, affectionate, transparent, and all the rest. Many women *also* want excitement, virility, some measure of risk and danger perhaps -- passion, naughtiness -- the kind of men who have always, since the beginning of time, slipped into bedrooms and tents and fields for passionate sex all the more exciting and satisfying because maybe it wasn't allowed, or it was with someone who was very much not a husband-partner-predictable type.
It is very difficult for one man to be both those things.
Also, a woman might just want different bodies. A woman should never have to choose a life partner based on penis size, for instance. But if they want that, too, why not have it?
So different partners might be 'primary' for different things, but it makes sense for different people to meet different needs and desires.
Josh is also very kind, reliable, and dependable, but she doesn't have to rely on him for general life support, like she does me. His integrity just plays into being a better sex partner and romantic friend.
Sexually and romantically, she also enjoys having me as a different kind of partner, one who she can wrap around her finger and who provides her with an ever-present source of, confidence, validation, and sense of being admired and desirable.
So far, it's been working out pretty great...

[Jeremie11231]

But to actually respond to what you were bringing up, about wishing you could be "normal" - I totally get that... kind of hot and frustrating at same time. But looking at it through this idea I'm talking about above, we don't have to consider ourselves secondary or any less valuable because our presence actually often is a main thing that makes it possible for a woman to feel safe, confident, and supported, so they can really embrace a very sexy role with other men. And that is hot...

[DLD]

Jeremie11231, you have seriously described things that I have been trying to convey and express while telling my own story. For 15 years I have been trying to put my experience and feeling into words and I don't possess the talent and skill that you have to do so.

You have described every emotion, transition, and even experiences that I lived for a total of 7 years. Like yourself, I witnessed the miniscule transitions that my then submissive girlfriend was making within her new freedom. Everything that she did was so gradual and mildly incremental that I would not notice as she took control over the situation...

Her training and me living as her cuckold 24/7 for so many years followed me all these years later and naturally has me wanting to transition into what I feel is the next natural progression. She had a long term serious relationship where her boyfriend became her primary but I was still involved. Although he was her primary, they never lived together. In my opinion the next progression from where her and I left off would be a poly/cuck relationship where the 3 of us live together under one roof but he is her primary partner and I am the secondary partner/spectator/3rd wheel (whichever you want to call it) they are the couple full time and he shares her with me once in a Blue Moon in order for us to maintain a connection/intimacy but normally they'd share a bed at night while I hear them making love from my own bedroom....

Again, thank you for such clear and perfect example of self expression that allowed me to plug my own numbers into the formula. I lived what you lived/are living and it is a scary but amazing way to live.

Wow - first, thank you so much for the compliments on my writing - I really appreciate that.
Second, just the summary you laid out of your own process was super hot - absolutely loved it - thank you!

Re: the primary/secondary/poly topic --
Emily and I definitely believe in poly - we had a conversation about that and agreed that "just sex" is not even really desirable, if it is even possible (I have my opinions on that -- maybe for some people sex isn't emotional, but I see it as intrinsically very emotionally impactful) and that Emily should never feel like she cannot *love* a man she is having sex with. And I think there are different kinds and flavors of "love" -- sexual love is a thing. And affectionate, long-term partnership love is a thing. The way we love a little kitten or puppy, and love a motorcycle ride are very different.

I do not see things in terms of primary and secondary, though --
Emily has different needs, and it's not that some of them are above another -- well, there isn't really a need to place them above one another, because they can be met in different way.
I like to think about evolution and the whole bigger picture, and relating it to modern relationships and marriage.
Any woman, or any person, really, has different needs, that often conflict, and are unable to be met by any one single person.
A woman who wants children wants a partner who can be a good father, be stable, loyal, dependable, supporting, affectionate, transparent, and all the rest. Many women *also* want excitement, virility, some measure of risk and danger perhaps -- passion, naughtiness -- the kind of men who have always, since the beginning of time, slipped into bedrooms and tents and fields for passionate sex all the more exciting and satisfying because maybe it wasn't allowed, or it was with someone who was very much not a husband-partner-predictable type.
It is very difficult for one man to be both those things.
Also, a woman might just want different bodies. A woman should never have to choose a life partner based on penis size, for instance. But if they want that, too, why not have it?
So different partners might be 'primary' for different things, but it makes sense for different people to meet different needs and desires.
Josh is also very kind, reliable, and dependable, but she doesn't have to rely on him for general life support, like she does me. His integrity just plays into being a better sex partner and romantic friend.
Sexually and romantically, she also enjoys having me as a different kind of partner, one who she can wrap around her finger and who provides her with an ever-present source of, confidence, validation, and sense of being admired and desirable.
So far, it's been working out pretty great...

I love that idea of a lack of hierarchy in the relationship. No primary or secondary, just everyone communicating and getting and giving what they need out of the relationship! How did you cultivate that mindset and how did you get Josh and Emily to think that way as well? Was it organic or did you three have to work at it?

[Jeremie11231]

I think it came pretty naturally -- Or, really, it's not something Emily had to specifically confront or struggle with -- she's the one in the middle, so her men have the values they have to her, she doesn't necessarily have to reckon with figuring that out. Whereas in the beginning I had a lot of jealousy and insecurity and questioning what my role or value was or would be if she had this totally next level kind of sex with Josh, and so this was the understanding that I slowly settled into, in order to understand why a woman would value her relationship with a husband she was cucking no matter how great a lover she had.

[Jeremie11231]

Also just my attempts to understand relationships, couples' conflicts, why people have affairs, how unnecessary it might be for it to be a big problem for a woman to just flat out admit they want sex with other men and for space to be made for that -- to let go of conflict over trying to make one man be everything, even when I could see that it is impossible for a man to be both mysterious, new, exciting and 'dangerous' AND safe, reliable, dependable, committed, etc.

[venus-can99]

All good points Jeremie. Society frowns upon women wanting to have sex with multiple partners - especially if she is married. They are labeled as sluts. It is more tolerant towards men - labeling men as "studs".

[Jeremie11231]

Thanks for the brand "spanking" new update Jeremie . Have you and Emily experimented with pegging at all yet ?

Yes... just haven't written about it yet... but I will at some point soon!

Brother you don't know how much I am anticipating this update. This thread and your retelling of it all is just chef kiss.

Since pegging is on the table too, is that part of Emily and your PIV play or does she use it as a form of domination like the spanking.

Okay, finally getting around to writing about pegging and how that got started up. Once chastity was in play (with or without device – mostly without) and there were more periods of time when PiV sex was off the table, it created even a reason to explore other ways of interacting sexually.
And once it was established that I responded the way I did to being instructed to bend over for spanking, it was a natural and very quick progression to experimenting with the psychological impact of anal penetration. In fact, looking back it feels like they arose almost at the same time. Neither one is a super frequent part of our sex life, but what I would say about that is that it doesn’t take much — a little goes a long way.

The first time was quite a long while back, and the context was that Josh had been over the night before and I had been told I was not allowed to release until the following night, almost 24 hours after he left, and that it would be conditional on me being obedient. In fact, I think maybe release wasn’t even promised — it was just to be able even just to hear details about what had happened the night before. She knew I needed to know, that it drove me crazy not to hear any details at all. So, the next night she said the way to hear was to cooperate with something she wanted to do —- she would only tell me while fucking my ass with a dildo. So that was the ‘price’ for the story.

At that point we had already experimented with anal penetration with some toys, for prostate stimulation, especially while in chastity. So, I knew how to relax and let it in. In fact, we had even done pegging *once* before, many years ago (like, more than 10 years ago), as an experiment, but it just didn’t ‘stick’ in our sex life and we had never done it again, not for any particular reason. For this first time in a new context, which had a very different tone to it, she chose a relatively merciful dildo on the smaller side, or maybe the ‘average’ side, and put it in a harness.

She had me bend over a big cushion on top of the bed, facing the head of the bed, keeping my hands out in front of me. Like with the spankings, keeping my hands in one place, palms down on the bed out in front of me, was the signal we had adopted to show I was accepting and would not resist or interfere. Palms down out in front is me continuously saying “okay” to whatever is happening.

Pressing the tip into me, it took a while and a couple additions of more lube to get past the resistance and enter all the way in. There is something about being anally penetrated that creates this deep psychological state of acceptance. The only way to let it in is to get into that state. I have to consciously let go of resistance and feel acceptance and openness in my body. And once it enters me, I have to stay with it, stay in that openness to letting it in. It’s not just the psychological acceptance that I have to muster from other things – I have to bring all that into my body and open up this most vulnerable of places.

I whimpered out as Emily pushed it all the way in and gently pumped it back and forth, her hips giving my butt a little push each time, making me lurch forward as I let the sounds out. I sounded like a girl. Even though at first it felt very uncomfortable, as these things do, once I totally relaxed, I felt this unbelievable sense of intimacy, which was pleasurable and very emotional for me. Just feeling her looking at me bent over like that, gently moving into me, each plunge I accepted from her becoming more and more undeniably and irreversibly accepting the role she needed me to accept – as her emasculated husband who would stay reliably and consistently docile as Josh progressively took over the role of determining which nights I was expected to politely vacate the bedroom.

“So are you ready to hear about what I did with Josh last night?”
This is when she rolled out the stuff that was tough to hear.
And as she talked to me, it was like her words were not just something I had to take in psychologically, but with my body – relaxing my lower body to accept that penetration causes me to open my mental willingness, too. It’s almost impossible to stay stubborn and closed off to what you’re being told while simultaneously letting the most intimate muscles of my ass and lower body relax.

She talked about how they always start making out with their clothes on, and how turned on she gets just from feeling the mass of his cock when it’s hard pressing against her through their clothes. She told me how she took it out and sucked his cock – and that she always sucks his cock every time she sees him, no matter what else they do. She reminded me that even when she opens her mouth as wide as she can, she can only fit a small portion on his cock in her mouth, and that she gets on her knees or lies at the edge of the bed while Josh stands over her and pushes his cock deeper into her mouth. (This is unlike anything she has ever done with me, if that even needs to be said.)

She told me how Josh has taught her what he likes, which is for her to use lube and put both her hands around his cock in tandem and rotate them back and forth in opposite directions while she sucks on the end of his cock, so that even though she can only fit some of it in her little mouth, she is pleasuring most of it at the same time. However she sucks him, she does it for a long time every time he comes over, usually as one of the first things they do, and that it’s what he’s come to expect. And that he also likes to lie on his back and have her get between his legs and going between sucking him and licking all up and down his cock to going down to lick all around under his balls, sucking each one into her mouth. She also dropped the bomb that she licked his ass. I was surprised to hear that – I had no idea and she said that she had been licking his ass regularly for months. It really dropped my stomach out to learn that. I had never experienced any of the above. I didn’t even know that was on the table for her. I imagined Josh had taught her, step by step, how to do everything he wanted for him.

Would it even be possible to get jealous or protest while bent over getting fucked by Emily with a big silicone cock? Well actually, yes – jealous yes – but there was no way I could take my position seriously, much less protest or try to assume some authority. I couldn’t take offense to her choosing to let Josh overtake me for the #1 spot in her sex life, or that she did things for him that I didn’t even know or imagine.

She described, as she had in different ways before, the unparalleled experience Josh gave her of being totally filled up and her pussy lips being stretched around him. Not surprisingly, she told me she wanted me to feel it in my ass as I imagined what she felt taking Josh’s cock. Telling me how she has been masturbating thinking about him and really wanting to have sex with him more frequently, and asking me if I would be able to handle that. I said I would handle it.
Then she told me that because of some work changes, it’s possible Josh might become more available to come over more often. And that it might mean her sex with him could far exceed her sex with me, in frequency. (That was not the case back then when she first pegged me, but has since indeed become the case… at least if we’re talking about PiV sex. It’s just another thing I never wanted or expected – when I first brought up the idea of her having sex with another guy, I never would have dreamed or wanted it to be the case for another guy to be the main one getting his cock sucked and fucked all the time while I waited patiently, but that is exactly what has happened, and now it seems normal and okay.)

These quotations are not verbatim, but they’re an attempt at reconstructing the exchange Emily and I had while she fucked me in the ass –
“Josh is going to be pleased to hear how well you’re taking this.” It was ambiguous whether by “taking this” she meant taking the pegging or taking the news that Josh might soon be taking over as number one in her sex life.
“You’re going to tell him??”
“I already told him I was going to.” She said, “He asked me if I told you about the things I do with him. And I told him some things I tell you about, some things I don’t… And I told him this time if I was going to tell you anything at all, you were going to have to bend over and show me how badly you wanted to know… and how ready you are to handle the truth…”

The thought of there being things that I didn’t know made me feel burning jealousy - especially knowing that Josh knew I didn’t know the things she was doing for him behind that closed bedroom door – that only he knew just how much of a cuck I really was. I imagined him lying on his back enjoying feeling her wet lips and tongue kissing and sucking every crevice, and wondering if her husband really had any idea the true and full extent of what Emily was doing for him.

I asked her what Josh said when she told him that, about the pegging. She said he liked it. And that she got the sense he’d want an update to hear how I took it.

Those conversations got me wondering who was really cucking me – was it Emily cucking me for him and for herself? Or had it become Josh? Was he pulling the strings and enjoying watching what she would do out of devotion to his role in our bedroom? She presented it as coming from her, but I didn’t know what was actually said in their conversations – and maybe he didn’t even have to say much to convey to her that it pleased him for her to take his hints and suggestions and follow up on them to show him he had nothing to worry about as far as me challenging his position. I mean, maybe there is no real distinction to be made – they’re in it together… She always tells him when she pegs me. I have come to see it like this: My emasculation is like a donation to increase their sexual pleasure. Their sex is hotter and more satisfying when they both know I am bending over to take it like that. And it releases Emily from having to worry about holding back her pleasure and desire, or from having to hide anything going on, knowing that if I’m in a place where I’m bending over for her to peg me with Josh knowing about it, that I’m definitely not anywhere near getting upset and putting up a fight against her moving things forward with Josh.

[trecital]

Nice description, as usual.

I think it's both of them 'putting you in your place'.
Josh and Emily are reinforcing their position by making you more subservient and sexually passive. I'm pretty sure that Josh encourages Emily to tell you what she is doing with him. Particularly if it is something that he discovers that she hasn't done with you (the arse licking for example).
It's only right, and natural, that Josh should know all about what Emily is doing with you.
Also, if there are any 'secrets' that Emily knows about you, that have previously only been shared between the two of you, then you should tell Emily to tell them to Josh. For example, if you masturbate by yourself, then you should confess to Emily each time that you do it. And Emily should tell Josh. Also, if you think about Emily and Josh while you masturbate (of course you do, who are we kidding here?), then you should tell Emily what you think and fantasise about. And again, she should tell Josh. Basically he should know about every aspect of your sex life, both past and present. Particularly any embarrassing shortcomings you might have.
Maybe Emily could arrange for you to tell Josh directly, face to face, about things. Would be good fun if you were to explain to Josh about your thoughts when Emily was pegging you.
Also, would be exciting for you if you agreed for Josh to discipline you in some way. Maybe a spanking for every time you masturbate without his or Emily's permission.
Basically Josh and Emily are already subtly controlling your sex life. I'm thinking that this control should now be overt. Or perhaps it already has gone to this stage?

One thing you didn't mention..... How did the pegging finish? It would be excellent if, with your hands passive, laid on the bed, that Emily had made you ejaculate from the pegging. Or perhaps you were required to finish yourself off?
Whatever the outcome, Emily should definitely have told you that she would report it to Josh.

[elina]

...............
Those conversations got me wondering who was really cucking me – was it Emily cucking me for him and for herself? Or had it become Josh? Was he pulling the strings and enjoying watching what she would do out of devotion to his role in our bedroom? She presented it as coming from her, but I didn’t know what was actually said in their conversations – and maybe he didn’t even have to say much to convey to her that it pleased him for her to take his hints and suggestions and follow up on them to show him he had nothing to worry about as far as me challenging his position. I mean, maybe there is no real distinction to be made – they’re in it together… She always tells him when she pegs me. I have come to see it like this: My emasculation is like a donation to increase their sexual pleasure. Their sex is hotter and more satisfying when they both know I am bending over to take it like that. And it releases Emily from having to worry about holding back her pleasure and desire, or from having to hide anything going on, knowing that if I’m in a place where I’m bending over for her to peg me with Josh knowing about it, that I’m definitely not anywhere near getting upset and putting up a fight against her moving things forward with Josh.

Thanks for a wonderful update,
To me, it is just beautiful to see how Emily was not only cucking you, but how She thaught you to fully accept not just that, but your new life as Her submissive supporting cuckold husband.

Will be very interesting to hear about when you were made to tell Josh about that conversation and that you would like him to have even more frequent sex with your Wife and Cuckoldress. Maybe you figured out then to what extent it was he pushing Emily, or Emily enticing him to do this...

Sincere regards
elina
(submissive male)

[Angsty Cuck]

I love this thread so much. The detail is superb.

Do you think Emily loves Josh?

[avid fan]

Lovely update, thanks...I'm very interested to hear in due course if you get to eventually participate directly when they're together, or even passively observe...or if their time together is always away from you.

[Jeremie11231]

Nice description, as usual.

I think it's both of them 'putting you in your place'.
Josh and Emily are reinforcing their position by making you more subservient and sexually passive. I'm pretty sure that Josh encourages Emily to tell you what she is doing with him. Particularly if it is something that he discovers that she hasn't done with you (the arse licking for example).
It's only right, and natural, that Josh should know all about what Emily is doing with you.
Also, if there are any 'secrets' that Emily knows about you, that have previously only been shared between the two of you, then you should tell Emily to tell them to Josh. For example, if you masturbate by yourself, then you should confess to Emily each time that you do it. And Emily should tell Josh. Also, if you think about Emily and Josh while you masturbate (of course you do, who are we kidding here?), then you should tell Emily what you think and fantasise about. And again, she should tell Josh. Basically he should know about every aspect of your sex life, both past and present. Particularly any embarrassing shortcomings you might have.
Maybe Emily could arrange for you to tell Josh directly, face to face, about things. Would be good fun if you were to explain to Josh about your thoughts when Emily was pegging you.
Also, would be exciting for you if you agreed for Josh to discipline you in some way. Maybe a spanking for every time you masturbate without his or Emily's permission.
Basically Josh and Emily are already subtly controlling your sex life. I'm thinking that this control should now be overt. Or perhaps it already has gone to this stage?

One thing you didn't mention..... How did the pegging finish? It would be excellent if, with your hands passive, laid on the bed, that Emily had made you ejaculate from the pegging. Or perhaps you were required to finish yourself off?
Whatever the outcome, Emily should definitely have told you that she would report it to Josh.

I like the way you think! Very diabolical sense of the psychology. : )

[Jeremie11231]

I love this thread so much. The detail is superb.

Do you think Emily loves Josh?

Emily has never been quick to "love" - she is more slow burn. But I think she does -- I see love a spectrum of shades and flavors -- we love even a cute puppy we run into on the sidewalk for a few minutes. Sexual love is a real thing, I believe -- I don't think you can have sustained, repeated deep sexual intimacy with them and not have deep feelings of care and admiration for the person. But it's not necessarily the same as wanting to marry them. Outside the bedroom, love shows as just deep respect and care -- for other things going on in each other's lives, or just around scheduling and cancelling. Or being willing to have a less sexy night, opting for more talking and cuddling instead -- i.e., it's not just about fucking, there is real companionship and care there. And that is definitely the case with them.

[Jeremie11231]

It *was* always behind closed doors, until a few months ago -- I'll write about this in the next post - asap.

Lovely update, thanks...I'm very interested to hear in due course if you get to eventually participate directly when they're together, or even passively observe...or if their time together is always away from you.

[DLD]

You are an extremely good writer! Thank you for sharing in such a detailed fashion with us. Obviously, things are evolving, but can you share with us a little bit about how the intimacy has changed between Emily and Josh and explain a little bit about your relationship with Josh. And how that’s evolved over time.