A delusional stag/vixen outcome

[Domingo-ITA]

Please excuse any error or lack of clarity, as English isn’t my first language.

Me and F. have lived an extraordinarily strong love; both of us we had not experienced so overwhelming feelings before. When we fell in love with each other, I was 52 and she was 43. 5 years 3 months later we broke apart but after 3 months we restarted to talk many hours a day (yes, hours), we restarted to see each other, and to have sex. Sex was as amazing as it was previously. I would need 100 pages to tell everything about our love and our relation, both pre-break and post-break.

During the last year of the relation pre-break, we had played a fair bit about cuckold and stag/vixen; often we had sex by telephone or video while telling each other some stories of stag/vixen or bisex cuckolding. F. knows everything about Life Style and its meaning, we had discussed about it many times, she had read things etc. So, she knows everything is worth to know. I am stressing this point because it’s important later.

Post-break, we slowly restarted our fantasies on stag/vixen, and these fantasies became more and more concrete, until one day, in february last, 2 years after our break, it happened. I was very nervous while I waited her to go back home and call me to tell me everything. When she called me and told me everything, it was incredibly exciting, we had telephone sex and it was smoking hot.
She said a lot of important things: why did she decide to do that hotwife thing? Because she wanted do it with me and for us. Had it been exciting for her? Yes, it had been very exciting, but not more exciting than sex with me or sex fantasies with me. If I was not there, would she have done it anyway? No way, she wasn’t interested in him or in other men, and the only reason she did what she did was she found it incredibly exciting to do it with me, knowing I was waiting for her telling the story soon after. Why she wasn’t interested in him or in other men? After all, we were not in an exclusive relation anymore. Because no man could raise her interest after she had been in love with me (this she had said many times before and after that day).
This stag/vixen or hotwife adventure was unforgettable for me, not only for the sex part but for the “romantic” words and concepts. Remember: F. knows everything about LS and its relational background: it’s a game for couples, so you must be a couple to play the game. And indeed, in those two years post-break we were exclusive not because of a decision or a promise but because we only were still interested in each other. To me and to F. this is the best form of exclusivity.

So in March last we had amassed 5 year 3 months of love relation, plus 2 years post-break with a lot of sex and romanticism, and so I asked if she believed we could again re-join as a couple (spoiler: no; but this is another story).
We continued to talk about this subject and she recalled that 15 days before I had said something like “once in a while, it’s great, but I wouldn’t be happy if you saw [the other man] too often.” It didn’t seem a big deal to me, after all this is what she had said herself. But now F. said:

“Remember what did you say about me seeing the other man too often? Well, you have no rights anymore to say who I can see and how often.”

I was distraught: first of all, stag/vixen or hotwife is a game for couples, so if we do it, we are a couple de-facto, so I am entitled to express my opinion; second, it’s a game, a game which involves me as well, so I have the right to say when and under what circumstances and how often etc. I am willing to play that game. I felt betrayed and fell I had lost my trust in her. Her (I believed it was “our”) hotwife adventure I was fully supportive of, provided there was clear communication and peovided we were on the same page. We weren’t.

I asked for some days of silence, distraught for the love story which would not be resumed and for the humiliation for the story I have just told you. Then something else and unrelated happened that has not been recovered from, yet, and so we have never resumed our habit of staying hours talking etc. (in brief: after that conversation I searched relief by talking to another woman who is interested in me; F. discovered that and was furious: every other woman ot was my right to talk to and have sex with etc., every ither woman but not precisely that one (there were reasons partially understandable but overall insufficient). She said never talk again (eventually we had restarted talking but very rarely).

I tried to discuss the vixen thing and how I felt; I was thinking that probably there was a reasonable point of view which would have demonstrated that there was no breach of the trust. But F. didn’t want to discuss with me. She replied she was too distraught on her part, to be able to discuss about her (I can’t say “our” anymore) hotwife adventure.

I realized that F. was not willing to discuss with me about something I was a part of; then I realized she was selfish in being furious with me because I was trying to overcome my frustration for both the love story which was deemed not resumable and the hotwife adventure, by talking to another woman. I told her that it seemed jealousy on her part, but she replied harshly that it wasn’t.

In order to evaluate, I am no novice, as I have had my fair share of cuckold/hotwife/stag-vixen experiences in my past, only, not with F.

Bottom line: I feel my trust in F. betrayed; I believe she should have no vixen/hotwife adventure if she didn’t count me as a couple partner; or on the contrary she should have all sexual or emotional story she would want, without having me believe I was a fundamental part of it.

Now I am asking to you: do you find any weak point in my reasoning? Am I entitled to feel how I feel? How do you interpret all of the story I have told you?

[patw3268]

This is the game we play when we sign up for this lifestyle. If she agrees to do it, you can’t lock her into changing feelings. Just accept them as you come.

Seems to me, based on what I read, that you guys would be better off breaking up. Bro, she doesn’t respect you. Unless you are okay with feeling less than an equal, you need to move on.

[Wifewithothers]

One of the most important things to do in any non-monogamous lifestyle is to communicate often. Not during sex, but when you are both clear headed. Discuss what you are or are not enjoying. What rules/guidelines that you want to do away with, add, alter etc. Do you both still want to continue in the lifestyle. Anything else you might want to change about how you do or do not play.

[ugcp]

I think the issue is less to do with stag/vixen/hotwifing, and more to do with the integrity of your relationship with her. You glossed over the specifics of why the relationship ended, but I have a feeling the fact that it wasn't resolved is the root cause of why you are in the current situation.

You and F saw the new situation differently. It is often not helpful and inaccurate to generalize, but sometimes women don't see relationships in solid, specific structures the way men do. Dynamics can be more fluid, nebulous, without hard definition or solid form.

I've been in a similar situation as you, regarding having an extremely intense love and sexual connection, losing the relationship, becoming on/off with unofficial relationship connection yet still having a sexually charged connection. I'm afraid it didn't get better for me/us in our case. You likely have to accept that it isn't going to work out and be the way you want, even though there is still strong love and sexual desire between you. We like to think that love is enough, but in reality it just isn't sometimes.

[Her number1]

Now I am asking to you: do you find any weak point in my reasoning? Am I entitled to feel how I feel? How do you interpret all of the story I have told you?

You didn't really address your prior breakup. That seems to be a key in this.

[coastalkid]

I agree with Her number 1 and ugcp that the original break up has/had leftover issues that cloud the relationship. You never mentioned if you and F were married. I get the impression that it was a "relationship" and not a marriage. Even though a marriage in and of itself doesn't necessarily assure love and happiness, it does publicly proclaim a shared commitment to each other.

When she explained to you why she did it she may have been holding back some of her deeper feelings. She may have just been telling you what she felt comfortable saying. It could very well be that F discovered she very much enjoyed being a hot wife/vixen, especially after saying, "Well, you have no rights anymore to say who I can see and how often.”

Since you weren't married, and weren't living together, and she didn't feel it necessary to follow any previously discussed rules, she further established her independence during your time apart. She may have thought that she just couldn't do her vixen thing and share it with you the way you wanted it shared.

The part about her being angry regarding you reaching out to a female friend to discuss your situation makes me laugh! I'm not laughing at your situation. I'm laughing at the fact that this sort of thing keeps getting reinforced in this general lifestyle. It is expected that husbands/bfs are to suppress their jealousy no matter how extreme or difficult it may be. It is also expected and to be accepted that wives/gfs are justified to be insanely jealous of even the most innocuous of things. I've never understood this.

I think you're entitled to feel the way you do just as F is entitled to feel the way she does. What do you want to do?

[Domingo-ITA]

Thank you all. I think our breakup has never been properly addressed by me. My fault, though I was encouraged by her behavior and her words to think we were still in love, even after the breakout, only in a less structured relation.

Since my first post, something has happened. One day F. told me I am the most important person in her entire life and we shouldn’t set apart, we shouldn’t lose each other. Than she asked to discuss the things I have told you in my OP. We started but we fought. Silence again. Then we started to contact each other again, and one day she said we should meet again, probably before the end of November.
Then again, she didn’t say anything about that, and now we are still contacting each other briefly and rarely (2-3 times a week as a maximum).
During the discussion on the stag/vixen thing she said I had misinterpreted. We didn’t finish the discussion, but I can’t trust her yet. I just don’t see how should I have interpreted. I don’t know if and when we will take the discussion again.

Sorry for not being clear in the original post: we are not married, we live far away (1 hour by plane). We have been profoundly in love for 5 years, then we broke and then we passed two years being reciprocally exactly what we had been during the previous years, with a lot of confidence, trust, sex, fun.

What I want now is to lose any residual love for her and to be able to restart the relationship as it was in the two years post-breakup. I don’t think it’s possible, though.