I though we'd be together for ever - it was not to be

[steveb713]

Its most likely over I am sad to say. I have a history on this forum on and off for several years.

A brief summary. Long married couple and I mean very long married. I'd had a fantasy of wife having sex with others for years always sharing it with her. She clearly wasn't motivated toward a HW lifestyle though at times she'd get into it when we were making love.

One day about 6 years ago she came to me and said I'm giving you your wish. My wish? Yes your wish - I'm ready to have sex as a gift to you.
She'd been playing pickleball at a community court near our house and a fella we knew socially was also playing there. She liked him as did I and they began playing together. On occasion while they were playing pickleball I would go for a run or walk meeting up with them an hour or so later. It was clearly obvious she was flirting with him. Long story short he was the guy she picked to have sex with.

L ( my wife ) and I talked it over and decided we'd meet with him over coffee and explain the details of what we were proposing to him. We did and he was blown away ! Never knew anything about HW or the lifestyle. He said he's think it over. A day or two later he said ok I/m in. Wife and he proceeded to arrange a date. They did get together and had sex - she loved it came home all aglow - we had reconnecting sex it was heavenly.

They continued to meet periodically like maybe once a week or perhaps every four or five days - this went on for a while. It became clear L was having a major case of NRE and I mean major. She was giddy, talking on the phone with him texting frequently and so on. All the while I was becoming more worried as to where this was heading even to the point of my fear of losing her to him. After all here is guy younger than me by 10 years, a retired veterinary surgeon, prosperous, decent looking and so on.

L was in my mind moving to dump me for him. She of course denied this, nevertheless I was beside myself with jealousy fear worry etc. I admit I did not handle things well. At the time I acted in the only fashion I knew how and that was to go full bore full steam ahead. I told her I need her to stop seeing him. She said "thats like taking a present away." Now it was my gift to her not her gift to me.

One thing I'd failed to add is that we were at our ski condo in the Idaho mountains about 2 hours from our home in EA WA.

We were as I say in a very strained place. When discussing this calmly she said I want both of you. I said thats not going to happen. I wasn't up for a ply relationship and neither was he.
We were at a major impasse. Meanwhile we went to bed , I couldn't sleep. I picked up my phone and started going through things, among them one of our seldom used banking apps. To my surprise there was a check for $5000 to a law firm for a retainer. She was going to divorce me.

I woke her in the middle of the night letting her know what I'd discovered. Of course she was undone by this, by my finding this, by my knowing what she had in mind. I said we need to leave right now. We packed up our things and headed for home obviously in a very quiet state. L said I wasn't ready to do anything I just wanted to consult with the attorney to look at my options.

I said it doesn't matter. I'll see an attorney as soon as I can arrange it. I happen to know what is considered the best divorce attorney in our town and promptly reached out to him the next business day.

I hired him and asked him to start proceedings. He was not only a great lawyer but a really nice man. Decent professional, the kind of lawyer you'd want representing you. He said slow down - don't be in a rush - We do live in a no fault state so all the rhetoric is meaningless the law only looks at the facts and they don't care about the "stories."

L decided to move out and move into our ski condo, I remained in our intern condo downtown. We separated and remained so for about 9 months moving slowly deliberately toward divorce. BTW L also had a good and decent attorney - yes a rarity I suppose but it was a factor.

About 9 months or so heading toward either court or settlement L called me and asked if we could meet for a drink/coffee/lunch etc. I said sure - we agree on a place and had a quiet get together - she said she didn't want a divorce - I told her it wasn't up to you - but I agreed to slow things down and see if we can be civil and at least resolve finances properties etc - ( BTW our kids are all out of the house living on their own in distant cities an airplane ride away from us, we're "orphans in our community ).

Long story short we eventually began seeing one another, L had moved into town renting a small very nice apartment in an old lovely house a mile or so away from our condo. We slowly began seeing one another. She made it clear it was over with him, he wasn't interested in anything serious and so forth. I was soft hearted and I LOVED HER DEEPLY -

Which brings this long tale to a near ending thanks for the few of you that have managed to stay with me this long.

We're now 6 years later - We've been together and have been happy - we did manage to put things back together or so it seemed. We did see "him" call him J at a few social events, we remained friendly or cordial and L would always brighten up when she saw him. She still had it for him, no doubt it, it was very apparent to me. I mentioned that to her and she said we're just friends.

In the meantime, I was diagnosed with blood cancer, also known as multiple myeloma cancer. It was a shock as I was in perfect health but it was a real diagnosis. I began treatment. There is no cure for MM. If you're lucky and don't have the most aggressive form you can be treated with immunotherapy ( infusions and oral medications ). I was fortunate that I was able to get some of the latest drugs and went in to remission though I was sick some of the time. L became a caregiver. I may have added I am 12 years older than she. During this time our sex life was dead. It just wasn't something that came into our consciousness.

Now I/m pretty much whole again. L came to me in April of this year and said I got hold of J and made a date with him. I/m going to meet him for sex. I wanted you to know. I said this is scary - she said it's different - I know myself - I know him neither of us want anything more than sex and a bit of conversation- she assured me I'm her guy. I continued to be torn with lust and reservatiion. I told her so and again she reassured me of how it's not like it was.

So here we are in late August - and we're back worse than we were - she's full blown back as much or more so - this time shes' seeing the age disparity, my cancer, her being a younger woman than her husband by 12 years. She told me she wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left. I told her I understand and yes you won't be able to the things with me that we did for over 40 years because now the cancer has restricted some of my physicality. Cycling, hiking. European trips and more - I went along with it for these past few months finally deciding it was not for me amy longer as I was feeling totally left out - her emotional side had moved over to J - he was getting her physically intimately and seeing the best of her while I was getting the leftovers. I decide last week that it was not for me as bleak and dark as it would be. I told her she had to choose. A simple yes or no J or me. She deflected and wouldn't answer blaming me and accusing me of wanting to restrict her friends and what she does and with who. I said no, it's just simple either J or me. I told her by refusing to take a side she was telling me it was him. I said in that case I will have to do for me whats best for me !! plain and simple - so there we are - One last ironic twist of fate. J was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer. It's a full blown case of prostate cancer - his choice total prostectomy or radiation therapy. He is choosing radiation therapy - but first because his prostate is so enlarge he has to undergo large doses of testosterone shrinking medicine which of course will leave him without erections and a few other issues. This treatment may go on for a few months before he actually undergoes the radiation therapy or it might coincide with the testosterone blocker.

In either case the sex for L will stop though knowing her she'll be fine - so this my HW Forum long time friends - I/m sorry this went so long I'm sending this without editing for typos or nonsensical grammar - I am at a dark place. All alone with a sparse support group surrounding me while L has J and ay lady friends to support and comfort her. I will check in from time to time. Please support me in any way you can - tell me how stupid I've been for not enjoying what we had - I found that while I loved the idea of L being the HW and did comfort in seeing her happy it became overwhelming when I felt I'd lost her to someone else - that was the part that left me in my mind no choice - no choice as I had to protect my sanity, my health and my well being -

[leggysman]

It's very sad to read this, steveb713

While the sexual side of all this is tremendous fun, I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to be replaced in her heart. My wife is both my lover and my best friend. I'd never be knowingly willing to lose (or compromise) either of those.

I don't know for certain what I'd do; I hope I never have to find out. Any couple can experience this, but in this lifestyle, at least the existence of the outside relationship is in theory out in the open, so we can all make our decisions with eyes wide open.

[tauras]

All I will say,take it with care, because all I know in life style is based upon I understand reading from others experience,and I maybe wrong....

I'm giving you your wish. My wish? Yes your wish - I'm ready to have sex as a gift to you.

That seems to me a very bad start. She started trying to put whole responsability upon you from start..You grabbed the possibility...it was better to decline it and talk more with her,until you & she agree it was because both of you want it, sharing a truthful better communication. And talk about envolment,maybe limits,and in early stage how to handle NRE,Jealousy...fears..not letting until last moment.

L was having a major case of NRE and I mean major

That was to be expected L & lover are the same age ,better chance of intellectual not just sexual connection,you a decade older....

Without the communication from the start you tried the nuclear push, her to stop or to choose between, "take her gift away"..that was she sees: she made your fantasy,now that she enjoys it you want to take it away, she doesn't see your fear of loosing her,your marriage.....because from start you do not comunicate! About feelings..etc.....ultimatums are not communication ...

She put in balance: to stay with old husband ( pro the children's, property,finances, & loyalty ) or to eventual jump and start a new life with younger same age man (pro love,better sex ,prospect for more years together)? So she as a smart woman wanted to know the financial cost if she will make the jump, that's why the discovered attorney.

said we need to leave right now. We packed up our things and headed for home obviously in a very quiet state. L said I wasn't ready to do anything I just wanted to consult with the attorney to look at my options.

Zero communication,just ultimatums.
That moment could be a turning point with good communication...but it was not, she weighted a possible divorce cost,but already decide it,in a rush

As now we know he could be the perfect bull,he was interested only in sex to your wife,not want to steal her,or break your marriage (he did not offer to marry her when she was almost free,in separation period)

You not divorced,L came back, was loyal and caregiver for you,even the fate will put her sex partner in impotency,no sex for a long period or all his life ,so no "threaten" (as impact you) in long term......

she's full blown back as much or more so - this time shes' seeing the age disparity, my cancer, her being a younger woman than her husband by 12 years. She told me she wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left.

Well she has that right,you can't (shouldn't try) to stop her. You can choose to be part of it,is her offer,loyalty,care,health support, or reject her offer and be unhappy to remain single in this not so easy years of life,because you cannot share her . She ask for her freedom to socialize outside marriage,to openly give support for friends and yes the other man who was also in love with (even is no sex anymore)....do you remember when first she says " she need both of you"?
That's the deal and her offer: accept part of her (love,care) ,the "leftovers" & her freedom or probably loose it.....it is not her choice as you try to force her to choose, in reality it is your choice between accepting the reality , her new partial life with you or your pride and maybe loose her.
It seems she already is ready for both future possibilities: either living near you as loyal wife and caregiver,support...but with the new freedom not under your control, or separated not accepting to block her happiness. What you will choose? With that you have to live with.

[Hellion4u]

Wow that’s a Tale of Tells so to speak. At some point all parties had what they wanted and at the end all were left with nothing more less unfortunately . Hope it works out best it can for all involved. This lifestyle is like a lot of other things. We have heard of it We have seen it We think it’s for us. Then we try it. And sometimes it doesn’t turn out like we planned or hoped it to

[LI_hotwife]

Sorry this happened. We are just getting back into her blossoming as a sexy hotwife vixen. It puts things in perspective.

We try to keep the bulls at least 10 years younger but aim for 20-25 years younger for reasons that are evident. They are much less threatening and more collaborative and eager.

[steveb713]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments. The points are well made and thought provoking. I have to dig deep into myself to decide whats best for
me. Yes the thought of spending the rest of my life alone isn't very pleasant. I ask myself now is it false pride pushing me ? The need to "show her"?
Possibly - moreover, is it too late for me to talk reconciliation ? She actually called it when we were going through this "you'll regret this." And yes in part I do, already. Again thank you all for your insights and compassionate comments.

[tauras]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments. The points are well made and thought provoking. I have to dig deep into myself to decide whats best for
me. Yes the thought of spending the rest of my life alone isn't very pleasant. I ask myself now is it false pride pushing me ? The need to "show her"?
Possibly - moreover, is it too late for me to talk reconciliation ? She actually called it when we were going through this "you'll regret this." And yes in part I do, already. Again thank you all for your insights and compassionate comments.

Your though can be a good restart....is better living the old days with a caring,supportive wife than alone, your children's cannot assist you,they are far away, grown up with their life & family.

Try to put yourself in her position too:

She told me she wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left.

What is your offer?:

I told her she had to choose. A simple yes or no J or me. She deflected and wouldn't answer blaming me and accusing me of wanting to restrict her friends and what she does and with who. I said no, it's just simple either J or me.

...no friends,no lover,no sex,no freedom , just care giving obligation to older health issues husband....and that can be accepted sacrifice....and in the end what future are you leaving for her? To be an old widow to young to to not have wishes,too old to have chance for remaking her life with a new friend,so a lonely life......

So resuming what is your offer:stay with me,but no freedom,sacrifice your life as caregiving for ME to NOT LIVE ALONE, and if you do so you will earning the rest of your life as alone living widow.....sounds like a great offer...maybe for you...but not for her.

"wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left". Do you have compersion to offer that for her?

[Restarting]

I feel for you on a number of levels.

We are of similar age. My wife and I have an incredible bond after so many years together. Yet, a few times over the years, including after an argument last month, I had reached a point of peace if our union dissolved. In most cases it revolved around inadequate communication. Non-responses like your wife's refusal to choose seemed unresponsive.

Our problems never centered around her sexual choices (except when she didn't want sex at all). It was always a matter of trust.

I'll rely on my PhD in Always-Right-and-Knows Everything to postulate on the weakness of your marriage.

Communication
If clearer communication existed between you two, I doubt your relationship would have gotten to this point. Dropping a bomb on you that she was not only contemplating, but actually took action to meet him without the courtesy to listen to your thoughts on it, is not communication.

Jealousy and control
My sense is that jealousy drove the whole him-or-me ultimatum. I'm guessing you feared losing control of your relationship. You took full control with the ultimatum. Over the years, you no doubt had significant influence over her decisions. You've now learned that you never controlled her decisions. Was it selfishness on your part for wanting that control? Possibly. You never owned her and I think her choices illustrate her emphasis on that fact.

When I've reached a point where reconciliation was in doubt, I considered a range of outcomes: Separation without a formal divorce, living under the same roof in a roommate relationship with no further responsibilities to each other, to full blown, divide assets to the dollar, divorce. Each time communication left us better than ever.

As long as trust exists, we can get through all of the challenges and enjoy the best of each other. Without it, there's little point.

Communication put the brakes on your divorce. You both chose, individually, to continue together. But communication requires two willing receivers and transmitters of messages. Hurt feelings interfere with that willingness. That's where you are.

Time by yourself gives you an opportunity to pull back and view your life and relationship from a 40,000 foot level and consider the totality of your experience together. This is your "count to ten before reacting" moment.

Ironically, you're in a no-lose situation. Do nothing, and everything remains status quo, a broken marriage. Is there a worse scenario?

If real communication can be restored, something can change. Maybe your view of L's feelings can soften your stance on sharing time and attention. Maybe L will determine that communication is better than acting solely on her impulses. Any change would be an improvement.

Finally, J's interest is of zero concern to you but he matters to L. IMO, that shouldn't be held against her. If you reopen communication, it's important to allow her those feelings. They can coexist while still prioritizing your happiness. Stay true to yourself without compromise, while listening with empathy. Avoid any tendency to stubbornly cling to old positions. Maybe a win-win outcome is possible.

Happiness is a choice.

Hoping the best for you and L

[SilverStag]

I empathize with your situation. Life does have its ups and downs and occasional curve balls. I wish you the best, but I also think you would benefit by talking to a professional therapist. We have our thoughts and words, but a pro may be able to get you to a better place than we can. Get help, please.

[Hellion4u]

Would like to chat with u if u see me online same time as u!

[steveb713]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments. The points are well made and thought provoking. I have to dig deep into myself to decide whats best for
me. Yes the thought of spending the rest of my life alone isn't very pleasant. I ask myself now is it false pride pushing me ? The need to "show her"?
Possibly - moreover, is it too late for me to talk reconciliation ? She actually called it when we were going through this "you'll regret this." And yes in part I do, already. Again thank you all for your insights and compassionate comments.

Your though can be a good restart....is better living the old days with a caring,supportive wife than alone, your children's cannot assist you,they are far away, grown up with their life & family.

Try to put yourself in her position too:

She told me she wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left.

What is your offer?:

I told her she had to choose. A simple yes or no J or me. She deflected and wouldn't answer blaming me and accusing me of wanting to restrict her friends and what she does and with who. I said no, it's just simple either J or me.

...no friends,no lover,no sex,no freedom , just care giving obligation to older health issues husband....and that can be accepted sacrifice....and in the end what future are you leaving for her? To be an old widow to young to to not have wishes,too old to have chance for remaking her life with a new friend,so a lonely life......

So resuming what is your offer:stay with me,but no freedom,sacrifice your life as caregiving for ME to NOT LIVE ALONE, and if you do so you will earning the rest of your life as alone living widow.....sounds like a great offer...maybe for you...but not for her.

"wants to live a full life for whatever time she has left". Do you have compersion to offer that for her?

can you be a little bit more direct ? and yes - you can see my latest post

[steveb713]

i again appreciate all the positive and yes truthful straight to the heart of things.
I did speak with a therapist on Monday morning. One that I’d seen over the years and who knows the two of us. I told himI was thinking of rescinding my ultimatum. Telling him I had pretty much decided that the “line in the sand “ position was wrong and
way off base for me. I asked his thought on how I could tell L that I wanted to rescind what I said and that I want to remain married to her. He replied just say it - ( he knows the both of us ). Followed with L will I believe respond with a loving reply.

As I mentioned we’re currently miles apart as I’m in MN waiting for my sister to die while L had to remain in WA State due to prior commitments.. I took the dr;s advice on a morning phone call and as predicted she welcomed me/us back with open arms. SHe said
I never wanted a divorce. I love you and want to be in your life. She never threw it up to me that I’d regret what I did she simply responded the way I had hoped. I know we have work to do when I get home. I know she needs to know that I am not trying to in any way control or manage her life.

I know we have issues to face but I/m ready to face them with her. I do not live in a fantasy world regarding how life should look. And yes as some accurately pointed out our HW beginning got off to a wrong start - all my doing- but thats behind me I cannot change the past. I can only correct and face the now.

Again, most appreciative for this forum. There’s are so many wise and deep thinking individuals here. I truly appreciate you all for helping me through this troubling time.

Steve

[tauras]

Sorry for your sister, wish you power and strength for the coming hard days. Glad that your wife L will remain on your side and you'll have her support too.

Sorry if maybe I expressed my point of view in a harsh way,or not choosed the proper words, but I am not native English speaking,and writing in any language I know is not so easy for me.

I wish you all the best

[steveb713]

Tauras your remarks were spot on. I completely agree that my aggressive direct hit to my wife to choose was a terrible approach knowing my wife
would never positively respond to that kind of attack. In fact when I called her yesterday to tell her out of my mind I was for that attack, he first words were "you must have been really hurting." And yes I was. But, the hurt was of my own doing in large part.

I'm hoping that this is a lesson well taught. Yes we have work to do when I get home. I'm hoping that I have the necessary emotional stability to approach things properly. I know I have my work cut out for me.

You and others pointed the many pieces that were wrong from the outset in our HW journey. We will remain in this lifestyle because L will not give up her friend. I won't ask her to. As I've said it's never been about the sex thats bothered me. It's been my need to have more of her than she had to give.
She has been a caring responsive loving wife for many years. No reason to think she'll stop being there for me and us.