Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[viking53]

You have repeatedly stated that neither of you wants a separation or divorce and that the family is most important. What is not clear is where you and Sam each set your boundaries and needs and spell this out to each other. You have described how you have had to stretch your boundaries as this journey has progressed but I think that is true for Sam as well. In addition to the feelings she has developed for Bill, she has become sex-fixated with daily multi-orgasmic experiences at a level way above what the two of you were experiencing before. Given the tension between the two of you, I am sure this abrupt lack of sex is also having a major effect on her, on top of her feelings for Bill. I think you both need to make it clear for each other what is unacceptable and what your needs are.

[shitbag]

If you don't kill Bill you'll change the dynamics of your marriage forever. Assuming your marriage survives (can't ignore the risk) any future with Bill will mean you are no longer in a hotwife relationship.

If you are willing to explore a cuckold or poly type relationship then you should probably ask for advice on that.

I also think you need to consider the likelihood of Bill leaving his wife.

[WantMore]

Yes it may be cuckolding presently. If they can come to terms with her being 100% honest and him accepting that Sam enjoys deep relationships with the men that really spark her desires then they can resemble hotwifing. She needs to recognize that he sets the limits and she honors all of his limits then this can also resemble hotwifing.

Question is if Sam can do this? She may enjoy independance and freedom of choice more than pleasing SM needs and wants out of her alternative relationships. If this is so they will have to run with cuckolding to make it work. SM has said that he is a powerful person, she may be also. One will have to give in and allow the other to steer.

Maybe im wrong, but ive always looked at hotwifing as the male steering the ship and cuckolding as the woman steering the ship.

You cant have two doms in an alternative lifestyle. One has to be more submissive than the other for it to work. One gives, one takes.

We may have two very independant people here who arent used to giving in to get what they want.

They will really have to spill the beans as a couple for us to be able to give geniune advice. We are all just guessing for the most part what Sams inner feelings are about her goals and wants from her reiationships with her men that really touch her soul.

[WantMore]

And one gives, one takes is very broad. Im sure we could write all night about how the giver compliments the taker and vice versa.

[Samanthasman]

It sounds as if you're trying to convince yourself that it might still be possible for an arrangement to work out with Bill. I can understand your wanting it to work out, because the highs you have experienced are so high. I don't have a hotwife myself, but she entertained the idea some briefly, so I do know how intoxicating it can be to go down this road, even from my limited experience in this arena. Sometimes, the carrot dangling at the end of that stick can cloud our judgment and make us compromise in ways we had never intended. So I don't blame you for having conflicting feelings about this. If I were in your position, I'd probably feel the same.

I imagine you are sharing your thoughts here because, at least in part, you would like to seek objective opinions from those of us who are a bit more removed from the situation. From what you've told us, I think asking her to end her relationship with Bill was the right move. The fact that she continued to talk to him after she had supposedly ended things (no matter how innocent she claims those conversations may have been) merely proves that you were right to be concerned and ask her to end it. She has now basically lied to you twice. Just as you may be too close to this situation to remain objective about your decisions, she's in even deeper. Think of any addict. What do they all say? They all think they can make it work, that they can control their addiction. They bargain, they deny. They do and say whatever they need to in order to keep obtaining that high. In your wife's case, she seems to have become addicted to Bill, whether that in any way manifests itself as love or not.

I've followed your story since the beginning, and I have to admit that it seems Samantha has been a tad manipulative from the start (threatening to call the whole thing off if you don't acquiesce to her approach). Yes, she has given you a great gift by pursuing this lifestyle, but it is a two-way street. You have given her just as great a gift. Don't let her forget that either. She isn't doing this just for you. She is obviously enjoying it herself. So, as with anything else, you both might need to make some compromises in order to make this work in the long run. But, if I were you, I don't think I could let her be with Bill in any capacity at this point. I'm sure your wife is a great woman, but she has demonstrated that her judgment on this one is questionable. Though she may not agree with it now, she needs you to stand firm on your position just as much as you need it. Sometimes we need someone to protect us from ourselves.

This seems like a pretty accurate assessment and thoughtful set of comments. We both call ourselves "addicts" - both frankly addicted to Bill. She's infatuated with him and I love what he does for her sexually.

I like your comment that it's a 2-way street. She feels that she did a lot for me, and I fully acknowledge that. But, even though it was all my idea, I did do a lot for her as well. Her 800 orgasms from Bill, were my gift to her, in a way. At least I see it that way...

Samantha actually caught up and read this whole thread this afternoon - yes she is reading along at this point (she did not earlier in the experience). I asked her if she thought I was being honest and accurate, and she agrees yes, for the most part. Obviously, it's my perspective on things. She does think I took a few things out of context (I don't think purposely) and positioned her as being a bit more manipulative than she really is. She reminded me that HWing was my idea, and that I encouraged her to go "all out" with Bill early on including multiple days of multiple rounds of hot sex. She even reminds me that after I asked her to split with Bill, I acknowledged that I had mixed feelings about that, which gave her hope and slowed her from letter go, and perhaps encouraged her to keep the communication going (although behind my back).

I'm TRYING HARD to encourage her to post something here. Her side of the story. She's not really warm to the idea - afraid she'd just get attacked by everyone... However, she appeared more open to the idea than in the past.

I do hope that I can get her to post and I do hope that everyone greets her politely. She has not had a voice in this. I fully admit that I made plenty of mistakes and it was the combination to some errors made by both of us that caused this bump in the road.

[tellmeall]

I would love to hear samantha's take on this.

[Samanthasman]

I feel SM handled this wrong from the start. Your outlook about wives scoring hubbys versus boyfriends isnt proper in hotwifing. Its only proper in dating. You need to show her that you rellish in her honesty about hotwifing. I get off totally on my wife going on a date, enjoying herself, fucking all night, then being woman enough to come home and tell me about it part by part without worry of me going off on her for over indulgance. Honesty is the entire secret that drives many of us men to want our wives to be the lil sluts of our dreams!

We need to be just as supportive for Sam as much as SM. This is a couple that jumped into some deep water. She is scared to totally show her feelings to SM because she is worried about hurting him. SM needs to plead to her that he wants her inner feelings to be openly shown to him without worry.

She is a good woman. She just needs molding in a gentle way to understand she is hooked like a fish to Bill. Nothing wrong with this if the relationship is ready for it. Yes they prolly arent right now. But that explains why SM is here!

Samantha is an awesome women. The only women I ever met, that I fell in love with her head before her body. That is why I would never leave her, stop loving her, or stop supporting her.

Today, we jointly agreed... to kill Bill, once and for all.

I'm sad that the relationship with Bill reached this point. I'm a bit angry. We both are. I don't know if/how it might have been different. I can only speculate...

Looking back to your comment, I too always felt that Samantha was matching guys up for their "husband" potential more than their "boyfriend" potential. (Just my opinion) By that I mean that she's attracted to powerful, successful, super-smart, super attractive, alpha males. She has zero interest in a BBC or a dumb stud no matter how gorgeous he is or how big his dick is. Zero. The way to charm her our of her panties is with wit and charm, that comes from being a brilliant CEO-type with game.

Now, I can't argue with someone about what they find "attractive". There is nothing wrong with that. What turns you on is what turns you on, and this is the stuff that turns her on. And, she attracts it in spades.

The "problem" is that (and now this is just my own opinion again) once she meets this guy, she wants to explore his soul to the core in all of the ways that are no different that how people that fall in love do. There is nothing off the table that they don't discuss (family, her relationship with me, our disagreements, my feelings and wants of her - and her feelings about me and my feelings, ambitions and dreams, etc.). So, the relationship has no emotional or physical boundaries, which can lead to off-the-charts infatuation (or more).

And, I ask her "can't you just be friends and lovers?", "Once you know a guy well enough to want to fuck him over and over, is it necessary to still dive deeper and deeper into the relationship?", "Is it not reasonable to say that certain topics or feelings or activities are off the table?" Are boundaries unreasonable? Frankly, I don't know whats reasonable or possible, and many people here have different models. One thing for sure is that you'd better be on the same page and not deviate.

Now, I'm frankly as frustrated and upset about this Bill situation as she is. It's a loss for me as well as her. Her heart is hurting, and our sex lives now retreats to vanilla, and the life-long fantasy is gone.

We both thought Bill could have been perfect for us. And now (sorry for venting a little)... If Samantha could have just enjoyed it for what it was - great sex with a great friend... and not looked beyond that and not tried to manage me or keep things from me (for whatever reason)... And, if Bill could have kept his mouth shut and instead of telling her constantly how important she is to him, and how he dreams about her all the time, and brainstorming with her how to manage me, if he could have just enjoyed it for what it was - great sex with a great friend... He could have fucked the one of the hottest hotwives of the planet every other day for years and we'd have all had the ride of our f-ing lives! Oh well...

[Mojo123]

...Samantha actually caught up and read this whole thread this afternoon - yes she is reading along at this point (she did not earlier in the experience)...

I'm TRYING HARD to encourage her to post something here. Her side of the story. She's not really warm to the idea - afraid she'd just get attacked by everyone...

Dude, you are SO fucked. She's doing "recon"…she knows your every thought, can anticipate your every move. Hell, when she prints this shit out & drops it on the divorce court judge's desk, he'll give her the house, at least half of all your shit/assets AND might only allow you supervised visits with your kids 'cause you're a perverted fuck (in the eyes of society & most likely the judge).

Get yourself the best divorce lawyer in town — you're gonna need it…

[Jaxunman]

SM, keep encouraging S to post. Many of us here would seriously like to hear her side of things. There is no room or cause for anyone to attack her. I am sure such behavior would be dealt with swiftly by Allengt and Mia. You have described her as a wonderful woman and we all know she is a hottie, she belongs here in the community

All that aside SM, no matter who started what or carried whatever too far, that is still playing a blame game that is counterproductive at this point. None of it can be undone now. All you can both do, if you both want to continue, is make decisions, more informed ones now that you both know what can happen, and set your boundaries accordingly. SM, I know you have posted several times about you not feeling comfortable setting strict rules and such on S's activities, but, unless you want to constantly revisit this all over again down the road with another Bill-like partner, then it must be addressed now. You have posted that S has stated that your subtle hints as to things getting out of control went unnoticed by her. She is asking for direct and decisive guidance from you to keep the marriage and relationship with you safe. The question is, SM, are you willing to put aside your discomfort and be the decisive hubby your wife is asking you to be?

[Samanthasman]

...Samantha actually caught up and read this whole thread this afternoon - yes she is reading along at this point (she did not earlier in the experience)...

I'm TRYING HARD to encourage her to post something here. Her side of the story. She's not really warm to the idea - afraid she'd just get attacked by everyone...

Dude, you are SO fucked. She's doing "recon"…she knows your every thought, can anticipate your every move. Hell, when she prints this shit out & drops it on the divorce court judge's desk, he'll give her the house, at least half of all your shit/assets AND might only allow you supervised visits with your kids 'cause you're a perverted fuck (in the eyes of society & most likely the judge).

Get yourself the best divorce lawyer in town — you're gonna need it…

Too late - you just gave her the idea - lol...

This is silly... She's known since day one I posted our story...

[WantMore]

Dude, you are SO fucked. She's doing "recon"…she knows your every thought, can anticipate your every move. Hell, when she prints this shit out & drops it on the divorce court judge's desk, he'll give her the house, at least half of all your shit/assets AND might only allow you supervised visits with your kids 'cause you're a perverted fuck (in the eyes of society & most likely the judge).

Get yourself the best divorce lawyer in town — you're gonna need it…

Lol man holy shit! Where do these guys come from?!?

You gotta understand that they are together on this decision. Down the road if Sam and Bill were to see eachother behind SMs back that she would be just as much at fault. The post above said they killed the Bill deal.

You give this to each one of their lawyers. There is equal incriminating evidence on both sides here.

Dude our state passed legal weed, gay marriage etc. Hell old conservative Colorado is now more liberal than cali. Do you honestly think a couple hotwifing is going to affect a divorce if good representation is presented? Hell no! Dude politicians, CEOs, movie stars, etc practice hotwifing all the time! Its nothing that unusual anymore.

Its a different world than it used to be pal!

You know somethin SM! I feel people are picking on you because you say your successful! I think some are jealous!

Hell, whos to say I or any of us is just as successful? Whos to say I dont own the biggest chain of weed stores in the state! whos to say I might work at Walmart? Whos to say Im not a trucker who only showers once a week! Whos to say im not the biggest lotery winner in history! Do ya get my point?

SM told us they are a successful couple to help us understand the situation. Who gives a rats ass how much money they have. But it seems some here are jealous! Thats bullshit cause being a successful CEO doesnt mean your gonna be successful at hotwifing!!

Hotwifing is a horribly addicting tough sport not taught in life or colleges. Its a very deep mental game for all involved! The success rate is prolly about equal to people with money versus people with none per capita.

Just cause someone has it all in there personal life does not mean they are gonna have success at hotwifing!

You guys need a break. Take some time. You guys might not be done yet. Just done for now!

[WantMore]

Thanks Meteor. Im sure not tryin to be the super star advice giver here! Its just we have been playing this deep boyfriend stuff for years! Her current boyfriend took her to the Dodge dealer and bought her a 60000 dollar dodge challenger srt8. Has every option, 450 some hp. Etc. He put the dam thing in her name to prove to her he was serious about devoting his personal life to her. This has been the f craziest thing ive ever seen! Most of you guys would be so f jealous you wouldve divorced her as soon as you found out about him buying into her. The guy is successful. Hes 30 with a doctorite in geology. He has it all together! makes about 500k a year. Im proud she got him.

Youll laugh how she met him. She was shopping in the auto section at walmart buying a pack of air freshners. He was pushin a cart looking at some cute young girls ass walking away. He ran my wife right over. The well trained slut that she is said dude what the hell! YOU BRUISED ME! What are trying to get a date or somethin? He said what if I was? The rest is history! Shes 43, hes 30, the base of his cock is exactly the same size as a pop can! He makes her squirt buckets!

I cant make her squirt!

Am I bothered by all this? Nope! I control the deal. She honors me and my needs. No it wasnt easy! Been 20 plus years in the making.

Did I have as big of balls as SM when I needed advice? Hell no. I dealt with it myself and almost drove myself crazy back in those years!

All Im doing here is rather then bashing, trying to give advice that I have learned from my wife.

Over the years ive posted her pics, her stories etc. We are pretty much above all that now. We would rather remain annonymous! She refuses to post her thoughts. She wont even read forums. In her spare time she plays pot farm on face book. Yeah she has her red card. Smokes a quarter ounce of med weed weekly!

We play the hw game hard and all in! No rules! We bet and dare eachother to make it crazier and crazier! We hoth havent found the end yet!

I get in the mood to post my thoughts every few years. I cant even remember my last sceen names and passwords so i just start a new one every few years.

Id love my wife to chat with yours. Aint no way in hell shell do it. She refuses to discuss it with anyone but myself and that sucks ass! Ive begged her to write. She says she aint a writer, shes a do'er. Pisses me off to no end! Nothing I can do about it and Im sorry!

I sure wish they could get together cause she reminds me of Sam.

Thanks for the balls to post your thoughts SM! Im sure you have helped many. Ive read here for years. Your thread is a top 2%er!

Thanks SM!

Ps. Im not allowed to drive her new hot rod. It sits in his garage to only be used by them! Is a ring next? She has a very expensive ring from me, but its 20 some years old. Hopefully I dont have to deal with a ring next or I may be asking for advice myself! In reality its all good! We get off on honesty so why should I be worried? Lol

[SSQ]

And now (sorry for venting a little)... If Samantha could have just enjoyed it for what it was - great sex with a great friend... and not looked beyond that and not tried to manage me or keep things from me (for whatever reason)...

Sam'sMan, I figured I'd throw out my $0.02 again because your story resonates with me so much, and I haven't shared all the details here before. I told my husband about your story because I was curious to see what he'd say. One reason I kept chiming in is because H and I had a situation that was similar in a lot of ways to yours. It was supposed to be only sex. But shit happens. I'm apparently not wired to have casual sex (except occasionally), but I didn't know that. All the poly people I know laugh when I tell them my story because they ask, how exactly did I plan to stop myself from having feelings? You can promise it all you want but it's not something that is within your control to promise. And saying you'll end things when there's feelings... that doesn't make sense in my head. I mean, why would I want to hurt myself over and over, when I know what will happen if I find a partner I am very compatible with?

My husband faced a similar dilemma as you, except that he did NOT get me into the lifestyle- I initiated it. So when I came to him and confessed that I'd fallen for a partner, he was not exactly thrilled, to say the least. The one thing that I did right is that he never worried that I would leave him. I made sure to reinforce that constantly- showing him, not just saying the words. But he did not like seeing the emotional highs and lows over another man, he didn't like sharing my heart and time. He did love the awesome sex and the happy wife- he told me that he had never seen me as happy as I was, ever.

So his choice was to let the relationship play out. He told me that he could never deny me something that made me so happy. Did it damage our marriage? Absolutely. I hurt the man who loves me very much. I pushed past his boundaries. The things I can say in my favour are that I never lied to him- I was always open and up front about my thoughts and desires, and I continued to show him how much I loved him and appreciated him. In a lot of ways our relationship got stronger as he saw that I was able to continue to meet his needs while getting mine satisfied.

Was it that easy? No. It took him a long time to fully forgive me for hurting him like that. He thought that in our situation, asking me to end things would have caused more damage than his choice. He knew it would hurt but that he could handle it, and he loved me and was committed to us. He knew that I loved him and was equally committed to our marriage.

My point is that we can have all the expectations and rules, but life is messy. It doesn't fit into neat little boxes and models. The human heart especially. Love is not rational or logical or based on "scores", just like a marriage is more than the sum of its parts. My husband knew I was not deliberately trying to hurt him when I fell for someone else- in fact, I went out of my way to show him how much I love him.

His comments to you are to really think about what you want to do in the future. Hotwifing is your fantasy, and you initiated this with her. If she does not want to just have sex with random guys, then this situation may happen to you over and over. NRE is powerful, and it's going to be very difficult for her to keep to the limits that you and she proposed to stop this type of interaction. And she isn't going to want to. The endorphin mix is absolutely like drugs- NRE hits the same mental receptors in the brain as heroin.

So if you want her to stick to casual sex, and that isn't going to make her happy, where will you go from here? That's something you guys really need to talk about. My husband thinks you guys both need to be more flexible with each other. Remember that you love each other and want each other to be happy. Is there a way to make this work, or would you both be happier going back to a vanilla marriage and just remembering the experience?

I don't agree with anyone here who is calling your wife a terrible person or saying that you need to put your foot down or that you should separate. You're supposed to be a team. Yes, she made mistakes (in my mind the critical one was the dishonesty, but I understand why she did it and I think you do too), but you also did by not taking into account this could happen, especially in the way you guys handled things, and by being so rigid in your thinking.

Certainly, I think you guys could benefit from seeing a kink friendly professional. There's a list (https: //fetlife.com/groups/1908) here if that would help you find someone who is truly open minded about your lifestyle choices who might be able to help you structure something to make you both happy.

I just think the bottom line is, can you find a way to make this work for both of you? If Samantha is like me (and your comments make her sound like a headstrong woman who knows what she wants, and I identify with her a great deal), I don't think she will be happy with what you want, even if she thinks she could be. Her comments that she doesn't think you should trust her and her constant attempts to try to get Bill back make me believe that now that she knows how good it can be to have the emotional connection and the great sex on the side, that she isn't going to want to go back. That her promising to try it your way again will only lead to her having her heart broken again, or being dishonest with you- neither are good outcomes. If that's the case- how do you feel about it and what happens next?

Whatever you guys decide will work for you, this is definitely an opportunity for the two of you to grow together and become closer. You've had some pretty fabulous and intense experiences and you'll always have those memories. Take this time to communicate, to learn more about each other's needs and wants and fantasies, and strengthen your marriage. Look at the positives and not the negatives.

All the best to you both. I hope this helped just a little.

[WantMore]

Now there is the star post SSQ, you should mentor Sam!

This is the best advice of the thread!! Dam good stuff!!

[Samanthasman]

And now (sorry for venting a little)... If Samantha could have just enjoyed it for what it was - great sex with a great friend... and not looked beyond that and not tried to manage me or keep things from me (for whatever reason)...

Sam'sMan, I figured I'd throw out my $0.02 again because your story resonates with me so much, and I haven't shared all the details here before. I told my husband about your story because I was curious to see what he'd say. One reason I kept chiming in is because H and I had a situation that was similar in a lot of ways to yours. It was supposed to be only sex. But shit happens. I'm apparently not wired to have casual sex (except occasionally), but I didn't know that. All the poly people I know laugh when I tell them my story because they ask, how exactly did I plan to stop myself from having feelings? You can promise it all you want but it's not something that is within your control to promise. And saying you'll end things when there's feelings... that doesn't make sense in my head. I mean, why would I want to hurt myself over and over, when I know what will happen if I find a partner I am very compatible with?

My husband faced a similar dilemma as you, except that he did NOT get me into the lifestyle- I initiated it. So when I came to him and confessed that I'd fallen for a partner, he was not exactly thrilled, to say the least. The one thing that I did right is that he never worried that I would leave him. I made sure to reinforce that constantly- showing him, not just saying the words. But he did not like seeing the emotional highs and lows over another man, he didn't like sharing my heart and time. He did love the awesome sex and the happy wife- he told me that he had never seen me as happy as I was, ever.

So his choice was to let the relationship play out. He told me that he could never deny me something that made me so happy. Did it damage our marriage? Absolutely. I hurt the man who loves me very much. I pushed past his boundaries. The things I can say in my favour are that I never lied to him- I was always open and up front about my thoughts and desires, and I continued to show him how much I loved him and appreciated him. In a lot of ways our relationship got stronger as he saw that I was able to continue to meet his needs while getting mine satisfied.

Was it that easy? No. It took him a long time to fully forgive me for hurting him like that. He thought that in our situation, asking me to end things would have caused more damage than his choice. He knew it would hurt but that he could handle it, and he loved me and was committed to us. He knew that I loved him and was equally committed to our marriage.

My point is that we can have all the expectations and rules, but life is messy. It doesn't fit into neat little boxes and models. The human heart especially. Love is not rational or logical or based on "scores", just like a marriage is more than the sum of its parts. My husband knew I was not deliberately trying to hurt him when I fell for someone else- in fact, I went out of my way to show him how much I love him.

His comments to you are to really think about what you want to do in the future. Hotwifing is your fantasy, and you initiated this with her. If she does not want to just have sex with random guys, then this situation may happen to you over and over. NRE is powerful, and it's going to be very difficult for her to keep to the limits that you and she proposed to stop this type of interaction. And she isn't going to want to. The endorphin mix is absolutely like drugs- NRE hits the same mental receptors in the brain as heroin.

So if you want her to stick to casual sex, and that isn't going to make her happy, where will you go from here? That's something you guys really need to talk about. My husband thinks you guys both need to be more flexible with each other. Remember that you love each other and want each other to be happy. Is there a way to make this work, or would you both be happier going back to a vanilla marriage and just remembering the experience?

I don't agree with anyone here who is calling your wife a terrible person or saying that you need to put your foot down or that you should separate. You're supposed to be a team. Yes, she made mistakes (in my mind the critical one was the dishonesty, but I understand why she did it and I think you do too), but you also did by not taking into account this could happen, especially in the way you guys handled things, and by being so rigid in your thinking.

Certainly, I think you guys could benefit from seeing a kink friendly professional. There's a list (https: //fetlife.com/groups/1908) here if that would help you find someone who is truly open minded about your lifestyle choices who might be able to help you structure something to make you both happy.

I just think the bottom line is, can you find a way to make this work for both of you? If Samantha is like me (and your comments make her sound like a headstrong woman who knows what she wants, and I identify with her a great deal), I don't think she will be happy with what you want, even if she thinks she could be. Her comments that she doesn't think you should trust her and her constant attempts to try to get Bill back make me believe that now that she knows how good it can be to have the emotional connection and the great sex on the side, that she isn't going to want to go back. That her promising to try it your way again will only lead to her having her heart broken again, or being dishonest with you- neither are good outcomes. If that's the case- how do you feel about it and what happens next?

Whatever you guys decide will work for you, this is definitely an opportunity for the two of you to grow together and become closer. You've had some pretty fabulous and intense experiences and you'll always have those memories. Take this time to communicate, to learn more about each other's needs and wants and fantasies, and strengthen your marriage. Look at the positives and not the negatives.

All the best to you both. I hope this helped just a little.

Excellent.,thank you!!

This is hard stuff. I know my wife can't have casual sex most of the time. She not wired that way, and I get and respect that. I know she needs the connection. And frankly, it makes the sex way hotter. Yes, like your husband, that was hard for me to adjust to. I was adjusting, but slowly.

Boundaries were pushed and I struggled to adjust, and of course my confort level declined. Still she and I both wanted the same thing - to make it work.

What could have been better:
- had boundaries been push a little slower pace (taking trips together, exchanging deep feelings) there would have been more time to acclimate
- when I started to feel jealousy and abandonment, she could have doubled down on her commitment to us, but instead took more of the "man up" approach... Or she just didn't see how some things effecting me as she was pretty focused on the new guy
- The lying was done to "protect me" but was absolutely the death nail. You can't push a guy to feel uncomfortable, tell him to man up, and then lie to him and not expect a reaction.

What could I do better:
- reign in the jealousy more
- be more decisive. I felt funny explicitly saying "this is ok, but this not" but she did ask for that and frankly she did excite to it pretty well.
- open my mind to all possibilities

I really wanted this to work. I really want to make it work in the future.


Question for you: how did your husband know you would never leave (or did he)?





The lying was the death nail.

[SSQ]

My husband's reply to you:

Well [SSQ] you always showed me a great deal of dedication and investment in our relationship and trying to please me/ make me happy. You told me how much you loved me and how much you loved having sex with me and how special and wonderful I made you feel. Why would you leave?

In terms of what you said... yes, I agree that the lying was the nail in the coffin. That's one thing that I think made the big difference for us; I never lied to my husband. I was open and honest about what I felt and what I wanted. All this time when he was hurting and we were trying to sort out feelings and where things were going (and it did take a really long time), he always knew he could trust me.

As for pushing boundaries... Sman, all I can say it, you gotta be there. We recently opened up my husband's side of the relationship as well, and he finally understands why I pushed so far so fast with my boyfriend. The possibilities are intoxicating. The NRE is intense. It feels so good... you know you're hurting your partner but you hope they can deal with it because you don't want to stop.

My advice to you, should you decide to go forward (after you take time to focus on your marriage and rebuild your trust- I would NOT stay open at this time), would be to talk about what both of your needs are in this type of relationship. My husband needed the same things from me- he needed to feel like he was first in my life. Even now, I have to check myself with NRE, and I know what the pitfalls are like. When he pointed out I was spending three overnights a week with my current boyfriend (dating three months), I realized I was falling into that trap again and redoubled my efforts to be an amazing wife.

Decisive is good- it seemed like you were second guessing all your thoughts. But remember to be flexible. Nonmonogamy takes a different shape for all of us because we all have different needs and want. May I suggest you and your wife both making lists- one of firm NEEDS if you go forward in this lifestyle and one of WANTS. See where the common ground is, and what you can work together on.

Definitely be explicit. Neither one of you is a mind reader. Like I said, this is your opportunity to really develop some awesome communication skills. Look at SmilingHusband's threads, where he talks about how much things have improved between them because they are so open with each other. For example, one of my husband's limits in the past was "Don't text your boyfriend until after our son has gone to bed." I wasn't the world's biggest fan of that- I like a lot of texting, and in particular I like a good morning and a good night text from my boyfriend. But this was one of the ways he made himself comfortable, and he expressed his boundary in a measurable way that I could comply with. Saying "Make me feel like I come first" doesn't help me do it. Giving me ways to do it- that, I can do.

As time went on, that limit got relaxed because he didn't need it anymore. He saw that I was willing to respect his needs and meet him halfway since my needs were getting met, too. It's certainly interesting now that the shoe is on the other foot and I'm doing my best to be clear about my needs and boundaries, too.

And there was back and forth- I didn't agree to things I knew I couldn't keep. For a while he wanted to have a limit that I could date women but only fuck men. He said he had a hard time coping with me having relationships with men. Instead of going behind his back, we had a frank and open discussion where I explained that while I like women and would be open to dating them, I prefer guys and I can't promise that I wasn't going to meet a man that I had chemistry with first. That wasn't a limit I was willing to live with. So we continued discussing and negotiating until we were both in agreement with our boundaries. Communication truly is the magic word.

But what really got us through the hard times? And I feel like I am understating how tough the growing pains were- because there was a lot of heartache figuring out if we could both be happy. But we got through it because we never forgot that we loved each other more than anything, that we genuinely wanted the other person to have their needs met and to achieve their goals and desires, and that we wanted to stay together.

[MrsTruckstar]

SSQs posts here are fantastic but there is a subtle difference in the two situations.
Sam is the HW and she did not see any problem, it was SM that went to her. In the SSQ post. it was SSQ that went to H with the perceived problem

So it is exactly the same 'scene' where the HW is seemly getting in too deep in somebody's view, viewed from differing perspectives.

Analogy
The HW is driving a car at 120 MPH through country lanes. The husband is the passenger.
In SSQ story she says, this is faster than I have ever gone before but I think I can control it it is scary, I promise I will do my best, enjoy it and not hurt you. H trusts her and they continue. There is a minor bump, all survive and SSQ decides not to go that fast again. It doesn't mean she won't but if she does, she has learnt some valuable lessons.

In the SM car it is the passenger that is scared. Sam the driver is still driving fast and sees no trouble, nor does she doubt her ability to control it. At this stage, she feels in control and does not have the benefit of hindsight as a learning point. SM is asking her to slow down or stop, even change her car for something less racy but where there is no perceived problem, she struggles to see his fear. She has just pulled into a lay-by (parking area), the journey is far from over and the car is still firmly in the hands of Sam and they are discussing things together. She feels she should drive the car at the speed, that scares SM, although the speed does excite him, he feels nervous of continually doing this in this manner.

Yes with coaching and therapy people will get over their fears. Those with severe vertigo do manage to work on the fourth floor but they rarely sky dive. Those with Agoraphobia, realise they have to go outdoors but they plan it well.

My point SSQ saw the problem, she took it to H. She continued and people got hurt. However they rebuilt it.
Sam didn't/doesn't see any problems.

Notwithstanding there are some fantastic lessons in the SSQ script.

The title of this thread asks a question. Did SSQ kill her Bill? Yes she did. Not straight away.

Thank you for telling us your story above SSQ, very brave of you, x. We all knew last year it had gone wobbly and we missed you while you were away.

I too have been a HW for ages. I also had a 'Bill' I should have throttled. I didn't. I wrote about it here. I decided to thrill not kill my Bill and my marriage broke down. That was 12/13 years ago. I was with the new guy three months and realised it was totally wrong. I missed my husband every single day of that three months but I had lost my hub's trust. It took nine months to get back with the best man in my life. His hurt was; he had let me push my boundaries, I took the piss. i told Hubby I had fallen for this guy, he asked me to end it or cut it down. I ramped it up. I came home one day and told hubby that, my HW days were over. He was neither happy or sad, he hugged me but could sense there was something else. we sat down and it took me two hours to tell Mr T that I was leaving. He didn't shout, he din't get angry. He said - We can work anything out. Do not leave me for him, however if you do, don't come back. I left. The one decision in my life I think about most days and regret everyday. I hurt the only man that ever trusted me and truly loved me.

I was very lucky that a certain circumstance lead us to fall back into each other's arms. That was pure luck. I will never lose that man again.

You never know if, how or when you will fall, or if they will fall for you. If you don't manage your feelings then you only have hope. With the benefit of hindsight, I know when it gets tricky. I have had guys fall for me since, I manage them. I have had one or two, that I have got too close to, I leave them. Sometimes you will be lucky but under normal circumstances you only get to be unlucky once. Plans are better than wishes and they have a much better success rate.

[john jasson]

Now there is the star post SSQ, you should mentor Sam!

This is the best advice of the thread!! Dam good stuff!!

I agree. And you too Wantmore. Brilliant posts with such profound insight, particularly the parts that consider Sam's feelings in this too. So much more helpful than the "divorce papers" posts. I refrained from posting because I know what the result would have been. Hope you work it out S & S.

[SmilingHusband]

SSQs posts here are fantastic but there is a subtle difference in the two situations.
Sam is the HW and she did not see any problem, it was SM that went to her. In the SSQ post. it was SSQ that went to H with the perceived problem

So it is exactly the same 'scene' where the HW is seemly getting in too deep in somebody's view, viewed from differing perspectives.

Analogy
The HW is driving a car at 120 MPH through country lanes. The husband is the passenger.
In SSQ story she says, this is faster than I have ever gone before but I think I can control it it is scary, I promise I will do my best, enjoy it and not hurt you. H trusts her and they continue. There is a minor bump, all survive and SSQ decides not to go that fast again. It doesn't mean she won't but if she does, she has learnt some valuable lessons.

In the SM car it is the passenger that is scared. Sam the driver is still driving fast and sees no trouble, nor does she doubt her ability to control it. At this stage, she feels in control and does not have the benefit of hindsight as a learning point. SM is asking her to slow down or stop, even change her car for something less racy but where there is no perceived problem, she struggles to see his fear. She has just pulled into a lay-by (parking area), the journey is far from over and the car is still firmly in the hands of Sam and they are discussing things together. She feels she should drive the car at the speed, that scares SM, although the speed does excite him, he feels nervous of continually doing this in this manner.

Yes with coaching and therapy people will get over their fears. Those with severe vertigo do manage to work on the fourth floor but they rarely sky dive. Those with Agoraphobia, realise they have to go outdoors but they plan it well.

My point SSQ saw the problem, she took it to H. She continued and people got hurt. However they rebuilt it.
Sam didn't/doesn't see any problems.

Notwithstanding there are some fantastic lessons in the SSQ script.

The title of this thread asks a question. Did SSQ kill her Bill? Yes she did. Not straight away.

Thank you for telling us your story above SSQ, very brave of you, x. We all knew last year it had gone wobbly and we missed you while you were away.

I too have been a HW for ages. I also had a 'Bill' I should have throttled. I didn't. I wrote about it here. I decided to thrill not kill my Bill and my marriage broke down. That was 12/13 years ago. I was with the new guy three months and realised it was totally wrong. I missed my husband every single day of that three months but I had lost my hub's trust. It took nine months to get back with the best man in my life. His hurt was; he had let me push my boundaries, I took the piss. i told Hubby I had fallen for this guy, he asked me to end it or cut it down. I ramped it up. I came home one day and told hubby that, my HW days were over. He was neither happy or sad, he hugged me but could sense there was something else. we sat down and it took me two hours to tell Mr T that I was leaving. He didn't shout, he din't get angry. He said - We can work anything out. Do not leave me for him, however if you do, don't come back. I left. The one decision in my life I think about most days and regret everyday. I hurt the only man that ever trusted me and truly loved me.

I was very lucky that a certain circumstance lead us to fall back into each other's arms. That was pure luck. I will never lose that man again.

You never know if, how or when you will fall, or if they will fall for you. If you don't manage your feelings then you only have hope. With the benefit of hindsight, I know when it gets tricky. I have had guys fall for me since, I manage them. I have had one or two, that I have got too close to, I leave them. Sometimes you will be lucky but under normal circumstances you only get to be unlucky once. Plans are better than wishes and they have a much better success rate.

thanks for sharing Mrs. T. (and SSQ too!). real experience from fellow OHW members is priceless. there is great wisdom in both posts. I hope the advice is taken.

[TinasHub]

I'm a new member here, and while I don't have a hotwife, it is an intense fantasy that we both share in bed.

I have to say that this is a very interesting post to me. If someday, my wife decided to take the plunge into hotwifing, she would clearly fall into the category of needing an emotional connection with her lover, much like Samantha does for Bill. To me, it seems like SM and his wife are experiencing the natural bumps along the road as they figure out together what works for them.

I think both SM and his wife need to take it slowly and figuring out what they both want and need as a couple.

[bob11]

I'm just a wannabe. I also think you will be fine in the long run.

[Samanthasman]

The morning period continues...

Samantha is still very torn up over Bill, and will be for some time. She cried while at the gym and has been very sad. I hate seeing her sad, and I just want to hold her but she usually does not want that.

I asked her if she had seen, texted, or talked to him and she said no. I asked her if she was planning to, and she no. I asked her if I could trust her to tell me, and she said not 100%. I do appreciate the honesty.

She's going to some business meetings tonite And trips and meetings the rest if the week. Now i feel enormous stress worrying and wondering if she is with him as I'm somewhere else. Ugh! Ive have asked her not to contact him or see him or do anything that would make things much worse. Now, I don't know if I should give ultimatums, give Bill ultimatums, spy, trust and relax, or what.

This makes me weak. It makes us weak.

[SmilingHusband]

so sorry to have seen you take this path. I feel for you man.

[SSQ]

Sman, focus on you guys. Plan a romantic date for the two of you, something WAY over the top. Like buy her a new dress or something, have an outfit laid out on her bed, and spirit her off in a limo for a five star restaurant. Something crazy and exciting- whatever would be that for you guys.

Get a hotel room, pay them to fill it with candles and have a chilled bottle of champagne. Court her. Make her feel special and loved and valued.

Rebuild that intimacy between the two of you. If you focus on that, the rest will come in time.

I would also ask her to block his number in her phone. It'll make it easier for her.

[Artimas]

Of course she's going to see him and not tell you. You wrecked her love life. The not 100% sure was a real dodge. Good luck with your heart and stomach while she's gone. I gather your trust level isn't where it should be.