Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[afagehi7]

A little over 2 years of this journal and she seems pretty far from being a hotwife. She plays along to turn you on but there is a very real chance this is just not her. You seem to convince yourself she has done something besides flirt but she knows it's your fantasy and how much it turns you on. Why would she not just tell you if she had fucked a guy? I find your story fascinating. But I'm not sure are telling the story you think you are telling.

I have a hotwife. And she can't wait to tell me she fucked another guy. Your wife is very sexy and hot. And she only wants you. I'm not sure how many different ways she has to tell you this before you let this fantasy go. Sometimes you need someone else to tell you that you already have it made and appreciate what you have. You got it made my friend. She doesn't want to be a hotwife. Would you have still married her if you knew she would never want to sleep with another man? Of course you would have.

It would be interesting if you dropped it for a long period of time and see if she brings it up on her own. I mean don't mention it ever for like 6 months to a year. Not once. Even if she brings it up I'd say "yeah but it's not you and I love you just the way you are." It has to be left up to her. If she ever really wanted it (she doesn't), she obviously knows she could convince you to try it later.

Just one man's opinion.

Let's remember she has slept with three guys as a hotwife. It's now coming up on two years since the last (Dec 2020).

You don't actually know if she has fucked those guys. She could be telling the truth about B and the stories about M and S may just be stories. Interesting that she said that you were S.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Fish has made better progress than most of us. She did F those guys in her hometown, S and M. there was more than just pure hotwife motivation for this action

[slenderfish]

Let's remember she has slept with three guys as a hotwife. It's now coming up on two years since the last (Dec 2020).

[/quote]

You don't actually know if she has fucked those guys. She could be telling the truth about B and the stories about M and S may just be stories. Interesting that she said that you were S.
[/quote]

This is a fair point. Never really considered it. Her emotions and conversations immediately after the reported encounters, and her actions and also her conversations more recently with the therapist, seem to fully support it all. But I am going to go back and rethink it all, as an exercise.

I have been wondering about her drunken comment about me being Mr. S that was on the heels of her query regarding my finding someone for her. I was thinking it was her sloppy way of attempting to walk back what she said. But I don't really know.

I keep hoping we can tackle this under the light of the therapist's conversation.

[slenderfish]

Is it a sexual attraction to women OR the added male attention it garners?

Hopefully both. We'd love to see this picture from the restaurant if you're able to deidentify it

I'll provide what I am able. Next couple of days.

[Suchagoodgirl]

A little over 2 years of this journal and she seems pretty far from being a hotwife. She plays along to turn you on but there is a very real chance this is just not her. You seem to convince yourself she has done something besides flirt but she knows it's your fantasy and how much it turns you on. Why would she not just tell you if she had fucked a guy? I find your story fascinating. But I'm not sure are telling the story you think you are telling.

I have a hotwife. And she can't wait to tell me she fucked another guy. Your wife is very sexy and hot. And she only wants you. I'm not sure how many different ways she has to tell you this before you let this fantasy go. Sometimes you need someone else to tell you that you already have it made and appreciate what you have. You got it made my friend. She doesn't want to be a hotwife. Would you have still married her if you knew she would never want to sleep with another man? Of course you would have.

It would be interesting if you dropped it for a long period of time and see if she brings it up on her own. I mean don't mention it ever for like 6 months to a year. Not once. Even if she brings it up I'd say "yeah but it's not you and I love you just the way you are." It has to be left up to her. If she ever really wanted it (she doesn't), she obviously knows she could convince you to try it later.

Just one man's opinion.

Let's remember she has slept with three guys as a hotwife. It's now coming up on two years since the last (Dec 2020).

You don't actually know if she has fucked those guys. She could be telling the truth about B and the stories about M and S may just be stories. Interesting that she said that you were S.

This was my take away as well from the accounts I've read where Mr Fish concluded that she fucked another guy. While she might have, there definitely was nothing that proved it. I recall one story where it was because her panties were creamed, but that can happen from a woman being turned on (or other less pleasant discharge), it's not necessarily semen. Again it could be. But the stranger part of this journey for me is the husband is pretty convinced his wife had sex with 3 other men. And the wife has never said she did (or admitted it). I just can't imagine why slender wife wouldn't tell her husband if she did fuck another man because he wants it so bad. She knows if she did fuck another guy that he would be so turned on and stoked. So why would she deny doing it? Is your desire for her to be a hotwife so strong that you don't trust your wife's words? If you can't trust what your wife says, I mean what do you really have?

Do you really have a marriage where you can't look at your wife in the eye and ask her a serious question and know she will tell you the truth? I would never lie to her if she pinned me down like that. Even if I knew the answer would piss her off. And she wouldn't lie to me either.

I ain't trying to burst your bubble. Enjoy your journey. I hope you both find what really makes you happy in life. Your wife enjoys being a tease and putting on a show with sexy dances and dressing sexy and loves the attention. But maybe she is one of those women who are turned on by monogamy and that is all she wants to do and that's ok. I know if I push my wife to meet and play with men when she's not in that mode, and this can last months or over a year, it pushes her away and hurts our relationship.

Some guys seem to think if you just push your wife long and hard enough eventually she will become a hotwife. But if it isn't her it isn't her and you are just hurting your marriage. I speak from experience from pushing at the wrong times and irritating my wife. My wife has never fucked another man because I wanted her to. She fucked a guy because she decided she wanted to and felt safe and supported enough to do it.

Also when she's so drunk she can't enjoy sex and asks you to find her a man, that needs to be ignored. If my wife said that I would ask her the next day "hey, you had a few last night and you said this...now that you are sober is that how you really feel? Is that something you really want to try?" If you can't even ask that question you have a strange relationship my friend. And if you won't ask her that sober because you know she will say "hell no" then why kid yourself. These kind of conversations should be natural and easy to have with the person you trust the most in life.

[Suchagoodgirl]

Let's remember she has slept with three guys as a hotwife. It's now coming up on two years since the last (Dec 2020).

You don't actually know if she has fucked those guys. She could be telling the truth about B and the stories about M and S may just be stories. Interesting that she said that you were S.
[/quote]

This is a fair point. Never really considered it. Her emotions and conversations immediately after the reported encounters, and her actions and also her conversations more recently with the therapist, seem to fully support it all. But I am going to go back and rethink it all, as an exercise.

I have been wondering about her drunken comment about me being Mr. S that was on the heels of her query regarding my finding someone for her. I was thinking it was her sloppy way of attempting to walk back what she said. But I don't really know.

I keep hoping we can tackle this under the light of the therapist's conversation.
[/quote]

Can't you just ask her?

[slenderfish]

I keep hoping we can tackle this under the light of the therapist's conversation.

Can't you just ask her?

Okay, I have considered it and of course she had these encounters.

I have the recordings of the phone calls she provided immediately after the encounters. I have the text messages. I have the emails to and from Mr. S., including the one I composed for SW at her request, and his reply.

I have the images Mr. S sent her. I've met these guys. I know their phone numbers, which match the text messages, which match the phone records. I have the video of the security tape of Mr. B. I have the video I took of her, when she had phone sex with Mr. M, heard his voice on the phone, etc. These all happened.

The only question is whether her drunken admission the other week was her providing a fun gift by trying to turn me on and jumping my bones, knowing that it gets me going, or if it was a serious request that I take action.

In the light of day she is almost always demurring and falling back to "just kidding" because she is so sensitive to slutty behavior (by herself or anyone else). I believe it is quite normal for people to have desires they are not willing to admit even to themselves. This has come up in our sessions with the sex-forward therapist; SW says she never has fantasies but the therapist smiles and says that everyone has fantasies, etc. That it's something to work toward, over time, to remember and embrace them.

I have asked her about what she meant. She kind of avoided the question and fell back to that it was intended to wind me up sexually.

So my hope is that the encounter was her unfiltered desire being exclaimed. We know that she speaks more of her truth when drunk like that.

The reason I've been overly careful is that the effort with Mr. S was going swimmingly but then he went too long without calling her and did not faithfully follow up with his promise to visit her on her birthday. She had strong NRE and was crestfallen when he dropped off the face of the earth for about two months. She now looks back on it with sadness and feels hurt. So she has been reluctant to try again, but in recent months seems to have resolved some of these feelings and, with the help of the therapist, seems to have renewed her desires in so many ways.

I've said this before, she can be like a cute but uncertain little kitten you might encounter under a park bench. You show just a slight bit of interest and the kitten runs away. But the next time, the kitten gets just slightly bolder but then gets spooked when you begin approaching. You then ignore the kitten and it comes out, but when you turn toward the kitten it runs away again. It takes time and a gentle approach for the kitten to become comfortable and confident.

This string on this forum has been intended to chronicle all of this.

Therefore, I'm stepping gingerly and carefully. She can be stubborn and it's difficult to turn a hard "no" into a "yes"; rather, it's much easier with her to morph slowly and on her own time frame into "I want it". It is best as her idea and desire, and that's what I want for her.

[afagehi7]

With Mr S she got out of perspective, it was just fun and sex. I understand as women generally don't compartmentalize it like that.

[Suchagoodgirl]

"I have asked her about what she meant. She kind of avoided the question and fell back to that it was intended to wind me up sexually."

Doesn't sound like she avoided the question. She told you she said it to wind you up. So she didn't mean it. Kitten behavior and all that is her way of saying no. If she really wants to take a trip to Paris and you ask her "hey you want to go to Paris?" Is her answer a hard "no" unless she's very drunk? Then plays like a kitten for 2 years until you finally convince her to go to Paris? Or does she say "yeah, that sounds like fun let's go." If woman is stubborn it's because she doesn't want to do it.

At some point if a woman is interested in fucking other guys she will say something in the kitchen like "I'm going to Fuck B tonight." Or "I fucked B last night" or "I just met a really cute guy." A hard no is a no my friend. She either wants to fuck other guys or she doesn't. And the way you can tell is when she fucks other guys. The fact you need a bunch of evidence to prove that she fucked 3 guys is kind of odd don't you think? Most hotwives say "I just fucked him." I've never heard a recorded phone call. I've never needed to see the text messages (I look at them because they get us hot). And I've never once suspected my wife fucked a guy without knowing. I'm not trying to brag. I'm just sharing the experience of what a hot wife is and how she might act. Your wife ain't a hotwife bro. And she don't want to be one.

[slenderfish]

"I have asked her about what she meant. She kind of avoided the question and fell back to that it was intended to wind me up sexually."

Doesn't sound like she avoided the question. She told you she said it to wind you up. So she didn't mean it. Kitten behavior and all that is her way of saying no. If she really wants to take a trip to Paris and you ask her "hey you want to go to Paris?" Is her answer a hard "no" unless she's very drunk? Then plays like a kitten for 2 years until you finally convince her to go to Paris? Or does she say "yeah, that sounds like fun let's go." If woman is stubborn it's because she doesn't want to do it.

At some point if a woman is interested in fucking other guys she will say something in the kitchen like "I'm going to Fuck B tonight." Or "I fucked B last night" or "I just met a really cute guy." A hard no is a no my friend. She either wants to fuck other guys or she doesn't. And the way you can tell is when she fucks other guys. The fact you need a bunch of evidence to prove that she fucked 3 guys is kind of odd don't you think? Most hotwives say "I just fucked him." I've never heard a recorded phone call. I've never needed to see the text messages (I look at them because they get us hot). And I've never once suspected my wife fucked a guy without knowing. I'm not trying to brag. I'm just sharing the experience of what a hot wife is and how she might act. Your wife ain't a hotwife bro. And she don't want to be one.

So it's been established, she is a card-carrying member of the Hotwife Club.

She gave it a try. She liked it for a minute (let's call it four months, Oct 2020 -Jan 2021). Then she took herself out of the game, onto the sideline.

"Coach, I'm out, need a break."

The only question that remains, for the purpose of this forum and this string, is whether she is still on the sideline getting herself ready to get back in the game, of if she's given it up altogether. In my mind, she remains on the sideline, hanging out drinking the Gatorade (wine).

I agree with you, until or unless she returns to the game, she is not presently an active hotwife. And if she never returns, then she was once an active hotwive but only briefly and never again. Yep.

Her kitten behavior is her behavior in just about anything that is new, that I know will be uncertain and perhaps fearful for her. Dating (including me), for example. She is different from other women, and will therefore have a different approach vs. your experience with your wife.

Before SW I had a longtime relationship with a criminal defense attorney. She is as straightforward as they get. In her case, a direct question is the only way to ask anything. She will tell you what she thinks and holds nothing back. Different strokes, different folks.

[veub]

"I have asked her about what she meant. She kind of avoided the question and fell back to that it was intended to wind me up sexually."

Doesn't sound like she avoided the question. She told you she said it to wind you up. So she didn't mean it. Kitten behavior and all that is her way of saying no. If she really wants to take a trip to Paris and you ask her "hey you want to go to Paris?" Is her answer a hard "no" unless she's very drunk? Then plays like a kitten for 2 years until you finally convince her to go to Paris? Or does she say "yeah, that sounds like fun let's go." If woman is stubborn it's because she doesn't want to do it.

At some point if a woman is interested in fucking other guys she will say something in the kitchen like "I'm going to Fuck B tonight." Or "I fucked B last night" or "I just met a really cute guy." A hard no is a no my friend. She either wants to fuck other guys or she doesn't. And the way you can tell is when she fucks other guys. The fact you need a bunch of evidence to prove that she fucked 3 guys is kind of odd don't you think? Most hotwives say "I just fucked him." I've never heard a recorded phone call. I've never needed to see the text messages (I look at them because they get us hot). And I've never once suspected my wife fucked a guy without knowing. I'm not trying to brag. I'm just sharing the experience of what a hot wife is and how she might act. Your wife ain't a hotwife bro. And she don't want to be one.

So it's been established, she is a card-carrying member of the Hotwife Club.

She gave it a try. She liked it for a minute (let's call it four months, Oct 2020 -Jan 2021). Then she took herself out of the game, onto the sideline.

"Coach, I'm out, need a break."

The only question that remains, for the purpose of this forum and this string, is whether she is still on the sideline getting herself ready to get back in the game, of if she's given it up altogether. In my mind, she remains on the sideline, hanging out drinking the Gatorade (wine).

I agree with you, until or unless she returns to the game, she is not presently an active hotwife. And if she never returns, then she was once an active hotwive but only briefly and never again. Yep.

Her kitten behavior is her behavior in just about anything that is new, that I know will be uncertain and perhaps fearful for her. Dating (including me), for example. She is different from other women, and will therefore have a different approach vs. your experience with your wife.

Before SW I had a longtime relationship with a criminal defense attorney. She is as straightforward as they get. In her case, a direct question is the only way to ask anything. She will tell you what she thinks and holds nothing back. Different strokes, different folks.

I'll get off this thread, but one thing I have noticed is that she seems to drink A LOT when partying. Does she need that to be flirty and seek out other men?

[TheHammer]

When the opportunity arises, get back to the topic with SW about having you pick out a man for her. Maybe start slow with going to a bar and pointing out men together and then having her approach one.

[slenderfish]

I'll get off this thread, but one thing I have noticed is that she seems to drink A LOT when partying. Does she need that to be flirty and seek out other men?

Yes, for better or worse, the old adage that wine reduces inhibitions is certainly true for SW.

[slenderfish]

When the opportunity arises, get back to the topic with SW about having you pick out a man for her. Maybe start slow with going to a bar and pointing out men together and then having her approach one.

Yes, I'm thinking we should go back to the place where we went with Ms. J earlier this summer, where the front is a legitimate restaurant lounge with a legitimate chef and menu, and the back part is a dive bar (with its separate entrance from the back alley) that picks up on the later side.

[afagehi7]

When the opportunity arises, get back to the topic with SW about having you pick out a man for her. Maybe start slow with going to a bar and pointing out men together and then having her approach one.

Yes, I'm thinking we should go back to the place where we went with Ms. J earlier this summer, where the front is a legitimate restaurant lounge with a legitimate chef and menu, and the back part is a dive bar (with its separate entrance from the back alley) that picks up on the later side.

I love the idea of checking out men together. After a few wines it could be a good game to get her mind in that space

[rooster444]

I'd say do a search for local guys on Doublelist, explain the situation to the guy, have him hang in the back and after a couple glasses of wine up front tell her of your 'gift' waiting for her in the back and she can either leave through the front door or the back.

[slenderfish]

I also think a good bet would be to book an in-home massage with a hunky guy.

[Nycadmanx]

The private massage is a home run! My wife absolutely loves that scenario, and it always ends with amazing sex between them. It's a win-win-win.

[afagehi7]

I also think a good bet would be to book an in-home massage with a hunky guy.

Would a mfm be an easier sell? Seems like the focus has been her and another guy, what if stressed the mfm angle?

[veub]

I'll get off this thread, but one thing I have noticed is that she seems to drink A LOT when partying. Does she need that to be flirty and seek out other men?

Yes, for better or worse, the old adage that wine reduces inhibitions is certainly true for SW.

Does this ever concern you? That she has to numb herself to act "slutty."

[afagehi7]

I'll get off this thread, but one thing I have noticed is that she seems to drink A LOT when partying. Does she need that to be flirty and seek out other men?

Yes, for better or worse, the old adage that wine reduces inhibitions is certainly true for SW.

Does this ever concern you? That she has to numb herself to act "slutty."

Why should it concern him. Most people get more outgoing after some social lubricant, that's why it's called liquid courage.

[veub]

I'll get off this thread, but one thing I have noticed is that she seems to drink A LOT when partying. Does she need that to be flirty and seek out other men?

Yes, for better or worse, the old adage that wine reduces inhibitions is certainly true for SW.

Does this ever concern you? That she has to numb herself to act "slutty."

Why should it concern him. Most people get more outgoing after some social lubricant, that's why it's called liquid courage.

I should have phrased that better: "Does she have to numb herself to act "slutty.?" instead of saying it as an assumption.
Yes, I agree it smooths social situations, but he describes her getting wasted regularly. I'm not saying she's an alcoholic: all I am asking is if he thinks it's excessive. If it is, then there's a major issue in her dealing with the hotwife scenario. If it isn't, then there's no problem.

[veub]

Yes, for better or worse, the old adage that wine reduces inhibitions is certainly true for SW.

Does this ever concern you? That she has to numb herself to act "slutty."

Why should it concern him. Most people get more outgoing after some social lubricant, that's why it's called liquid courage.

I should have phrased that better: "Does she have to numb herself to act "slutty.?" instead of saying it as an assumption.
Yes, I agree it smooths social situations, but he describes her getting wasted regularly. I'm not saying she's an alcoholic: all I am asking is if he thinks it's excessive. If it is, then there's a major issue in her dealing with the hotwife scenario. If it isn't, then there's no problem.

[william70]

SF "Therefore, I'm stepping gingerly and carefully. She can be stubborn and it's difficult to turn a hard "no" into a "yes"; rather, it's much easier with her to morph slowly and on her own time frame into "I want it". It is best as her idea and desire, and that's what I want for her."


Mean while: You, I and the rest of us here will be morphing into skeletons.

[Suchagoodgirl]

It's a fine line with alcohol and hotwife scenarios. It can make the wife more comfortable and helps with flirting but it shouldn't be a requirement. If someone's thought process is "Lets get her drunk and see if she will fuck another guy" then I have to question how much that person cares about this person. SW seems to be closed to the idea of hotwifing in general and flirty but still not interested drunk. So pushing more alcohol isn't the most respectful way to go about this. Veub's point is a valid one. If you got your wife super drunk and she finally fucked another guy and woke up feeling like shit and regretting it would you be stoked or would you feel like an ass?

I'm not saying this is slenderfish thought process. But there is a vibe "yes let's get her drunk enough to be slutty" from the crowd. Is the desire to make her a hotwife is more important than supporting her own sexual decisions and empowering her sexually as a woman? There is a vibe that just getting her to be slutty is the primary goal here. It's clear she enjoys putting on sexy shows and pole dancing and flirting. That repeated behavior suggests that is how she wants to express some form of sexuality. While her words and actions also suggest that she doesn't want to be pushed anymore to have sex with another man. I find it interesting that the night she got drunk enough to suggest SF find her a man to fuck she also checked out sexually. If the idea was hot to her she might have been more into the sex. Easy to blame the wine, but it's still telling. Also could have been a way to see if you only want to fuck her when she plays along with the fantasy. Does she have to pretend to be into it to turn you on? These could be thoughts in her mind. All of which will detract from her feeling close to you. If this was my wife I would try the next couple of times having sex without mentioning anything to do with other men and see if she's into the sex more. If so, you have just learned something about your wife.

The therapist comment that "everyone has sexual fantasies" may be true. But my wife is similar to SW in that if I ask her "what are your fantasies? What would you like to try?" she pretty much never has an answer. But her sexual desires will slip out in other more subtle ways. For example she loves having sex on a balcony or patio of a hotel and when we book a hotel she might ask if it has one. That's her way of expressing a fantasy but if I just ask her point blank she can never really come up with a fantasy she wants to try unless I suggest one first. Just her way I guess and it's a reminder of how different men and women think differently about sex.

[william70]

"The therapist comment that "everyone has sexual fantasies" may be true."
This is not a true statement. Many women do not fantasize about sex. I know, I'm married to one.