Not a Cuckold, but Thought I'd Share My Situation

[Lucky Dog]

drstrangelove, you've been through an awful lot and even though I've only been quietly reading your posts, I wanted to write to let you know you have a lot of support here that you probably don't even know about.

In the many years it took my wife and me to try cuckolding, I often thought about various scenarios -- even one where she cheated first, and then we eventually came to enjoy it. Before we finally did it, we both felt strongly that any sex with another still have to be very much an "us" thing. We've slowed down due to covid fears, but we talk a lot, and the "us" thing is more important to us now than before. It's what makes us happy to be married to one another and to find our marriage a source of comfort as well as joy and excitement.

You seem to understand that honesty and mutual love are essential for your marriage to succeed, and if it ever happens that one of you has sex with a third person, it will have to occur in this context. There is nothing you can do by knowing every single detain that you can't already do now -- so my only advice is to avoid using details as a cudgel, but focus your efforts on a mutual attempt to rebuild a solid marriage. If you're able to do that, great. If it doesn't work out, the details will always be there for use during the dissolution.

I'm glad that you've found this board generally supportive, as certain others have not been so fortunate in that regard. It seems that each person here has been trying to be helpful in whatever way they can be, so that's got to make you feel better. I hope you'll keep writing if you find it helps, and I'm sure we'll all keep on trying to offer whatever we can to help get you through this.

[drstrangelove]

You can definitely recover deleted text messages --- there are apps to pull things out of deleted storage but it might be as easy as just restoring her last android or icloud backup. Even when deleted things are still "there" until they are actually written over in memory. Deleting something doesn't actually eliminate it from the device (in general).
Does she have an iphone: https://www.macworld.com/article/234919 ... phone.html
Or an android: https://www.howtogeek.com/779687/how-to ... n-android/

As far as going forward --- there are a bunch of "parent" apps to help keep track of what your kids are doing on their phones that you could install on her phone to help you monitor it.
Here is a starter list:https://famisafe.wondershare.com/child- ... sages.html
Our kids aren't old enough to worry about this yet so I haven't done any deep research but it is on my list of things to do...
As part of rebuilding mutual trust I would suggest doing this openly and letting your wife know. That of course runs the danger of her trying to get around it but it also adds a deterrence aspect --- better to deter bad behavior and stop it then catch her in another affair right?
But it really is up to you, especially if she is not at all tech saavy you can probably install this without her knowing.

Last advice: Don't ask questions you don't necessarily want the answer to - you can't unlearn things. Only you can decide how much information you actually want just make sure you are ready to receive it.

I pushed tonight for us to try to recover the texts. She told me it was unhealthy. I suggested I don’t read anything with her and the guy—I really just want to read the ongoing convo with her and her mom going back to December.

She refused.

It built up to an essential ultimatum and it actually seems like she’s willing to get divorced before trying to recover them.

I’m in shock right now. Though it also seems like a blessing in disguise—if her willingness to share text messages is worth more than I am to her in a marriage, I need to end this thing right away.

Am I wrong?

[nekkedoutdoors]

You can definitely recover deleted text messages --- there are apps to pull things out of deleted storage but it might be as easy as just restoring her last android or icloud backup. Even when deleted things are still "there" until they are actually written over in memory. Deleting something doesn't actually eliminate it from the device (in general).
Does she have an iphone: https://www.macworld.com/article/234919 ... phone.html
Or an android: https://www.howtogeek.com/779687/how-to ... n-android/

As far as going forward --- there are a bunch of "parent" apps to help keep track of what your kids are doing on their phones that you could install on her phone to help you monitor it.
Here is a starter list:https://famisafe.wondershare.com/child- ... sages.html
Our kids aren't old enough to worry about this yet so I haven't done any deep research but it is on my list of things to do...
As part of rebuilding mutual trust I would suggest doing this openly and letting your wife know. That of course runs the danger of her trying to get around it but it also adds a deterrence aspect --- better to deter bad behavior and stop it then catch her in another affair right?
But it really is up to you, especially if she is not at all tech saavy you can probably install this without her knowing.

Last advice: Don't ask questions you don't necessarily want the answer to - you can't unlearn things. Only you can decide how much information you actually want just make sure you are ready to receive it.

I pushed tonight for us to try to recover the texts. She told me it was unhealthy. I suggested I don’t read anything with her and the guy—I really just want to read the ongoing convo with her and her mom going back to December.

She refused.

It built up to an essential ultimatum and it actually seems like she’s willing to get divorced before trying to recover them.

I’m in shock right now. Though it also seems like a blessing in disguise—if her willingness to share text messages is worth more than I am to her in a marriage, I need to end this thing right away.

Am I wrong?

No, you are not wrong. Does she give a reason she doesn’t want recover the texts?

[Kays cuck]

So sorry to read this drstrangelove. I have followed you for a while. You deserve better than this treatment. She seems unrecoverable at this point. Positive thoughts for you to find a healthy outcome from this situation she created. You seem to be making pretty wise decisions. Although for myself, I don't know if I could bring myself to read the old texts. The betrayal happened regardless what the details contain. It may make me spiral further into the pain than I need to.

[Maddie_Hippychick]

If you haven’t already, you may want to look at survivinginfidelity dot Com. They often try to distinguish between true remorse and regret for being caught. You’re soon-to-be-ex-wife is in full on regret, NOT remorse. Reconciliation with a spouse that is not fully remorseful is just not possible. Some cheaters will get there over time. Most never do. I’m sorry.

[drstrangelove]

Guys, this is a major update.

She broke down entirely over the texts and locked herself in her bathroom. She got her mom to take pictures of all the texts and send them to her, but I told her that was unacceptable because now I knew there was something big happening in other texts.

She had a complete mental breakdown like I’ve never seen. I told her it was texts or divorce—period.

She eventually caved and explained why—the story she had told me about Frank was largely a fabrication. The truth involved multiple over nights in a hotel, nearly weekly BJs for him when she went to work, before she came home on the train.

She came completely clean, scorched earth, full impact.

Truthfully, it was too much for me to handle. I still haven’t slept since this began (I’m about to take some pills before bed). I had her tone back the details so I could manage it and I took notes as she talked. I’ll paste them below—I don’t have the energy to edit them further.

The problem now is I’ve spent the last few days coming to terms with the last story and now I have to adapt to his. My instinct is just to call it quits, but I’m staying true to myself and just going to bed now (separately from her).

I’ll post more tomorrow.

Finally the Truth:

Sept+Oct: They first meet in Sept, see each other as part of PTA for a couple of events.

Guy gives her separate, friendly text in Oct and throughout Nov, more flirty as it goes.she had indication he was looking for more than friendship.

Dec. 4: a PTA event where they’re the only ones left cleaning up. They’re chatting/flirting, and my wife recognized and awkward pause where it felt like they could have kissed, but they don’t. Flirty texts continue.

He calls her on the 6th~ (which was odd at time) and asks if she’ll be attending the PTA holiday party on the 17th. She says she will and he’s happy to hear it. She leaves the conversation feeling like there’s a spark growing.

He tried to meet up with her twice while both of them in city together. Wife couldn’t because she was on her way home already.

Dec. 17: the PTA meets at a local restaurant for the party. The guy’s wife, also on the PTA is there as well. There is a point in evening where a mom is talking about masking and the room got a bit tense—my wife and the guy locked eyes across the table and she recognized a very flirty look. Around 10:30 I text her telling her I’m going to bed and she says she loves me.

She gets up from the table to go pee (bathroom upstairs). She emerges from bathroom and he’s standing there. Without a word, he puts his tongue in her mouth. She’s shocked, but kisses back. They break, and she tells him they can’t do this. He kisses her again, she kisses back, riding the wave of passion.

She came to find out this week, when she called to break it off with him, that his wife was very suspicious that something happened between them that night, but he claims to have killed it.

She doesn’t hear from him all weekend, so she’s anxious because she wants to see him again. On Monday (Dec. 20) he texts and they talk about how exciting it was and they want to meet again.

Dec. 21: they meet at her work and go to a bar in the city in the late afternoon. He touched her leg and she got turned on and they made out.

That night she took a bath and sent a pic of her in a bra and panties.

Her parents were coming for Christmas and things were too busy to meet. The following Monday (Dec. 27), they connect and agree to both go for a run and meet at a park the next day. They also discuss having sex and my wife agrees that she wants to.

Dec. 28: they jog to a local park to meet and walk around the neighborhood. They talk about the holidays and she vents about issues with me. Intermittently, he stops and kisses her. They circle back past our house (different street), approaching the main road and he kisses her again and she’s nervous to be so out in the open with him.

They decide to go to a hotel in a nearby city over night—she lied to me and said it was an over night work trip on the night of Jan. 4.

Jan. 4: they arranged to meet at a NBA basketball game. The guy is a cop and was working the game. My wife sat in the stands and watched the entire game alone. It ended and he drove her up to the other city they were staying—they arrived at 11 p.m.

They went right to the room and had sex for 3+ hours. They did every position and he came five times, including morning sex before he left. She lost count and at the time it was the best sex of her life (only to be surpassed by the next sex session). He also only wore a condom for his first two orgasms, but after went bareback and kept pulling out. My wife is not on birth control and this fact floored me for several minutes.

On Jan. 18, she was working in the city and met him in his car around 4 p.m. and gave him a BJ and swallowed.

They have cyber sex for the first time on Jan. 19—my wife lied about having to stay up to work. It was basic cyber, describing things they wanted to do to each other. He came, but she didn’t touch herself.

You can read my post on Jan. 22 where I describe the week for context—she came up that night and gave me a BJ and swallowed. Which was the first time that happened in years. She says she was just so turned on.

The following night, Jan. 20, was the “Vampire Diaries” night from my post when I went downstairs at 12:30 and suspected she may have been talking to a guy. She had already finished getting him off and they were chatting about favorite sex positions (he said reverse cowgirl) but I didn’t hear anything. Moments earlier she had striped to her underwear and sent him a photo to help him cum.

When she came upstairs at 1, I was still awake and I gave her oral and came from her foot job.

The following morning she had me stay in bed after she dropped off our child. She came home and fucked me reverse cowgirl. She said it wasn’t because it was his favorite position, but because it was also mine (true) and she felt guilty for never doing it for me. She says the week of hot sex events with me was partially guilt, but more so being incredibly turned on and feeling insatiable.

Jan. 24: she was in the city and met him and gave him a BJ and swallowed again. Either this time or the next one on Feb 10, he figured her to get her off after he came.

Jan. 25: She was stuck forever in the airport and sexted him to make him cum in the morning. Her flight was cancelled and she came home.

Jan. 26: she’s traveling for work and we sext that night (noted in Jan. 30 post).

Jan. 27: She flies home from business trip, he tries to pick her up from airport but it doesn’t work so she takes a car.

Feb. 8: she met him in city in his car and gave him a BJ and swallowed (possibly figured too).

Feb. 10: She sexted him while we were together on the couch watching a show. We then went to bed and I gave her oral. (They sexted 2-3x a week from Jan. 19 through end of Feb., most of it was very similar, though in one instance she recorded a video of her self pretending to masterbate for him.)

Feb. 14: I had bought her $150 in roses and taken her to two nice dinners to celebrate Vday earlier. On V-Day itself, she was in the city and sent him a sexy pic in bra and panties from her office bathroom.

Feb. 18-23: We go to Florida and have a great time together. She only contacts him once while we’re on the beach. They talk and he says he can’t wait to see her tan lines on Feb. 24.

Feb. 24: They established plans earlier in the month for a second fake work trip and they set another night at same hotel. She arrived around 6, texted me a lie about going to client dinner. He didn’t arrive until 10:30 p.m. or so, and we texted a bit during the evening. I asked her to sext, but she said she was too tired, but she did strip naked and send me a pic. Her concern was she didn’t want to start sexting with me at 9:30 incase it went on a long time—she wanted to be mentally ready when he arrived.

She brought with her lingerie, thigh high stockings and heels, which she put on for when he came into the room.

I masterbated to her picture and went to bed early. I told her I came from it and she gave me a smiley face.

They had sex for four hours. It was the best night of sex of her life. Lots of positions. He did not use a condom. At her request, he also brought and used his handcuffs on her while he fucked her prone position. He fucked her ass as well—and as noted, she won’t let me. They also tried to fuck in the bathtub. He came four times and they went to bed around 3:30 a.m. At 5:45, his alarm went off. Then the snooze, which prompted her to start sucking his dick and they fucked again.

March 2: she was in city for work and met him in same parking lot. Gave him head and swallowed. Then she climbed on top of him and rode him until she came, but he didn’t cum again. This is the last time she saw him.

March 14: Their final text contact before I found out the next night. She texted him with me and her family around. They made plans to meet in his car after work on March 17. They also decided they wanted to do another hotel stay, but didn’t look at dates yet—she thinks they would have likely gone sometime in April (coincidentally my birthday month).

[FNQLivin]

Yup. Big update.

Only you can make a decision. It's not up to us and frankly, you should take all the advice you see here with a large handful of salt. We're not the ones who are going to bear the consequences of your decision.

You two have a lot of work to do, if you want to. But getting divorced is not fun and doesn't always end up how you expect it to be. Whatever decision you do make, don't make it in haste.

[jratt85]

*shakes head.. after all the lies can you honestly believe that this is the truth? First off, go get tested for STD's, you could very well have something from her makeup sex or you cleaning her up.. I remember one time you said she was so incredibly wet and open.. I'm sure he probably has filled her and the pulling out is just her trying to save face still.

As Livin said it's ultimately up to you but obviously she has no respect for you at all and hasn't for some time and I don't think she will.. she's probably just more mad that you found out and could potentially ruin her getting with him.

[Chrislydi]

She may well have told you a version that is far nearer to the actual truth, it probably hardly matters as it admits enough. I wouldn't do anything too hasty when in such a painful and emotional state, continue counselling as perhaps there's now a better basis for going forward.

Divorce must always be a last resort when every other avenue has failed. There are far too many painful and unanticipated consequences from legally divorcing, and with children and family involved it's not a step you should take lightly,. It doesn't however do any harm to be very well prepared just in case you do have to go down that route eventually. Counselling though seems by far the next most logical step.

Remember we can only judge on an extremely limited view of your case, only on what you post here. It's devoid of body language, context, family (and friends) connections and so much more, perhaps only 5% of the total picture. You are by far the best person to judge and decide as you know the whole picture. Ignoring much of the advice given on here could well be the best policy really. Maybe other sites would be far more suited with people who have been through similar experiences and might recognise some of the traps and pitfalls it's easy to fall into.

That site quoted previously on here survivinginfidelity dot Com maybe useful, but don't do anything too hasty just now, and treat all advice given here with a great deal of caution, few of us know enough to tell you what you should actually do.

[drstrangelove]

Thanks for all the resent messages. I tried to sleep after taking some pills and woke up an hour later in an extreme panic attack. I melted down, largely at the thought of telling my sweet, sensitive seven year old son that we were divorcing.

I haven’t spoken about my children in this thread—and I don’t plan too—but keeping the home together and happy has been my #1 priority since he was born. It’s complete commitment to that goal for me and I feel like I’ve potentially failed him. I know it’s not healthy to place any of this blame on me, but ultimately there’s more I could have done and I will always know it.

As many of you have mentioned, divorce is serious and I’m very frightened of how it will affect my children. But I’m also struggling to find a path forward with my wife. In addition to changing her story again, she also accepted a phone call from him on Wednesday evening, the same day she called him to tell him I knew and the relationship was over. She says the call was just fear I was going to tell his wife, but I can’t be sure. Her lies have just come too easy and frequently.

She last fucked him earlier this month—so they were still very much into each other on some level when she was caught. She admitted that early on in the affair she saw the potential for it to be more than just sex—he was a friend, an emotional support, and she was having an incredibly erotic sexual relationship with him that was redefining her entire life experience.

But she said his personality started to shine through over the last month or so and she decided this was only a sex thing. In her mind, she wanted to ride out the affair until the spark ended in a few months. I find that a strange position and not how I would look at any affair I had.

Ultimately, I feel betrayed that she talked to him again without telling me immediately. It’s just too much dishonesty.

She woke up about 90 minutes ago and we’ve been talking more. I do believe she’s now open to change and genuinely looking to fix our relationship. I just don’t know how to fix it and I have to wait for Tuesday to see the therapist. I’ve been on no sleep for so long and I can’t function, but I also can’t shut my mind off.

I feel like all I want to do is keep digging and fighting to find the path out of this. Reading many of your responses has been a tremendous help—it often always me aid in steering our conversations.

Again, I appreciate all of you.

[8toplaywith]

I wish I had something positive to say. Your last post sounds like you are defeated.
Don't give up. You will wake up every morning and function. Life goes on whether we like it or not.
You have to ask yourself if you can live with this and move on and grow or start a completely new life with custody orders etc.

[nekkedoutdoors]

Is Tuesday couples counselling? Because honestly, without it I think you're both doomed to fail at reconciling this marriage. Nobody goes into a marriage planning for divorce. Unfortunately statistically half of them fail which mean half your kids classmates will share time between residences. The Modern nuclear family more often than not now consist of mixed families with parents on their second or sometimes even third marriage. What I'm getting at, is if things can't be repaired and divorce becomes the only option, you and your children won't be alone. There are groups for support available to help you and your children cope the changes in your family life should the need arise.

I want to also point out that remaining in a toxic marriage for the sake of the kids, can and most likely will cause as much or damage to your children than a divorce. Your kids are very young, while the divorce will be difficult for them to understand they are pliable and will adapt.

I truly hope for the best for and your family. Don't make any rash decisions. See how couples counselling goes and let those results guide your decisions.

[drstrangelove]

I wish I had something positive to say. Your last post sounds like you are defeated.
Don't give up. You will wake up every morning and function. Life goes on whether we like it or not.
You have to ask yourself if you can live with this and move on and grow or start a completely new life with custody orders etc.

The lack of sleep is becoming concerning. I got a full night’s sleep on Monday, but a total of maybe 3-4 hours since. I’m losing function and clarity, but I can’t force my mind to turn off.

We spent another few hours talking this morning. I think it was positive. I also think I need to talk to someone else, so I’m going to plan to chat with my mom today to see if helps.

I’m just struggling to get over all the text messages she sent me over the last several months. Reading through the texts when I know the days she was seeing him just destroys her character. And that naked photo of her in the hotel she was at waiting for him in Feb. while she pretended to be in a different state for work is beyond the pale.

Edit: I also want to add, she doesn’t think it was conscious on her part, but she agrees that our recent sexlife has made her think of me as a “door mat” in bed. She is confused about it because it’s against type—I’m more of a confident guy, work out, and have a relatively large dick. So for her, she was arosed by a guy who just took her because he wanted her, so even though his dick was tiny, the aura made her hot.

Ultimately, it’s still too soon to think about any sex life with her, but it stings to know what I was trying to do throughout the last few years—documented in this thread—may have contributed to her cheating on me.

It’s a lot to process.

[Maddie_Hippychick]

You may have contributed to problems in the marriage, but you did not cause her to cheat. That’s entirely on her. If anything, you gave her an opportunity to be open and honest with you, and she passed on that opportunity.

The problem with marriage counseling at this point is that you’re not ready. You need to heal from the trauma of betrayal before you can focus on fixing problems in the relationship. More times than not, counselors will approach it from the angle that unmet needs in a marriage lead to an affair, and this puts ALL of the blame on the betrayed. While unmet needs will certainly lead to an unhappy marriage and possibly divorce, cheating happens because the cheater feels entitled to it. And that’s a character flaw in the cheater, not a problem with the marriage.

If you are already committed to couples counseling, please PLEASE, find a counselor that specializes in infidelity, even better if they are also kink friendly. If at any point the conversation moves towards problems in the marriage that lead to the affair, you need to redirect it back to how you need to heal before you can address anything else. A bad marriage counselor can do a lot of damage here. Individual counseling for both of you is probably a better option for now.

[avid fan]

Really sorry for your situation. As you say, it's more than just 2 people affected by all this so I think a slow measured response weighing up everything is very much needed.

I can see how it feels like you've been cheated twice given the corrected timeline...but I'd just say that she probably wanted to downplay it as much as possible to put the least negative spin on things. If that unravelled then you can see her doing likewise.

All I'd say on that is the damage was done, whether she fucked him 5 times or 50.

Everyone is pointing to divorce. Maybe that is the solution but as said that damages a lot of people. I don't know how good things were with your family before this situation arose but think carefully what you could be losing. Lots of terrible things happen to good people everyday...we just have to find the best path though, and you're the only one who can weigh this up for your family.

[jacksonjones]

Edit: I also want to add, she doesn’t think it was conscious on her part, but she agrees that our recent sexlife has made her think of me as a “door mat” in bed. She is confused about it because it’s against type—I’m more of a confident guy, work out, and have a relatively large dick. So for her, she was arosed by a guy who just took her because he wanted her, so even though his dick was tiny, the aura made her hot.

Ultimately, it’s still too soon to think about any sex life with her, but it stings to know what I was trying to do throughout the last few years—documented in this thread—may have contributed to her cheating on me.

It’s a lot to process.

Like someone else said you didn't cause her to cheat but it is correct that what's been going on in bed for the last few years contributed to the current situation. Read back through your posts and you can see an unfortunate pattern of you two being on separate paths. You've been playing a sex game, a fairly sophisticated one of boundaries and feelings being pushed and tested, but has she? Have you communicated with her about this over the years, or just assumed she was onboard because it was happening and you wanted it? I recall at one point you said it wasn't an issue because neither one of you wanted actual intercourse and that she just winds up resenting it. It seems to me that a direct and explicit conversation outside of the bedroom was long overdue at that point - and look at where you are now.

People have mentioned couples counseling, and if I were in your position I'd push very hard for that and I'd commit fully to it. Take a look at what's going on in your marriage right now and think long and hard about what you want and how to get there. You and your wife must do these things together if you're going to have a solid, ling lasting and successful marriage and you're not doing that right now.

Lastly, as much as I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years if I were in your position the last thing I would do is turn to an anonymous sex forum on the internet for advice and support. I expect others here will disagree with me, but the fact of the matter is that none of us know what's real and what's fantasy here. If you're going to get past this and thrive in your marriage you'll need to do it together with your wife in equal partnership. The advice and guidance of folks here might sound like it comes from experience and make you feel good, but it's all based on your side of the story and your emotional response. And again, you don't really know what's real and what isn't here.

Good.luck, I hope that you find what you are looking for.

[Mad Dog65]

Echoing Jackson's post. Try to take care of yourself this weekend. Do you like to do and that will help you stabilize. Eat well, get out and exercise /workout, try to avoid a lot of alcohol, do something fun with your kids. Focus on getting to Tuesday and take one step at a time. If you are looking for some good sources of information on Infidelity, research Esther Perel, internationally renowned psychologist. She has a number of Ted Talks, YouTube and an excellent books on relationships and infidelity - mating in captivity and the state of affairs. This may sound a bit harsh but your old marriage is over. It is now up to both you to decide if you can create new marriage out of its ashes. As others have said, neither path is easy and both have opportunities for growth in different directions. This is the end of the beginning and its a long race.

[drstrangelove]

You may have contributed to problems in the marriage, but you did not cause her to cheat. That’s entirely on her. If anything, you gave her an opportunity to be open and honest with you, and she passed on that opportunity.

The problem with marriage counseling at this point is that you’re not ready. You need to heal from the trauma of betrayal before you can focus on fixing problems in the relationship. More times than not, counselors will approach it from the angle that unmet needs in a marriage lead to an affair, and this puts ALL of the blame on the betrayed. While unmet needs will certainly lead to an unhappy marriage and possibly divorce, cheating happens because the cheater feels entitled to it. And that’s a character flaw in the cheater, not a problem with the marriage.

If you are already committed to couples counseling, please PLEASE, find a counselor that specializes in infidelity, even better if they are also kink friendly. If at any point the conversation moves towards problems in the marriage that lead to the affair, you need to redirect it back to how you need to heal before you can address anything else. A bad marriage counselor can do a lot of damage here. Individual counseling for both of you is probably a better option for now.

I appreciate this insight and I'll keep it front of mind. I think there's a lot of groundwork we're going to have to layout in the first few sessions anyway. But you're right--we started to try to dig into some "Causes" yesterday briefly and again today, and truthfully it feels too absurd to me. They're all so insignificant in contrast to the affair.

[drstrangelove]

Really sorry for your situation. As you say, it's more than just 2 people affected by all this so I think a slow measured response weighing up everything is very much needed.

I can see how it feels like you've been cheated twice given the corrected timeline...but I'd just say that she probably wanted to downplay it as much as possible to put the least negative spin on things. If that unravelled then you can see her doing likewise.

All I'd say on that is the damage was done, whether she fucked him 5 times or 50.

Everyone is pointing to divorce. Maybe that is the solution but as said that damages a lot of people. I don't know how good things were with your family before this situation arose but think carefully what you could be losing. Lots of terrible things happen to good people everyday...we just have to find the best path though, and you're the only one who can weigh this up for your family.

Agreed. And I thought our family was great. Truthfully, we have a dream house, two incredible kids, loving family. Nothing is perfect, but outside of our sex life, I was very happy. Her sadness has grown since 2020 apparently, especially in Dec. when she felt like divorcing me was a real option for her.

[drstrangelove]

Edit: I also want to add, she doesn’t think it was conscious on her part, but she agrees that our recent sexlife has made her think of me as a “door mat” in bed. She is confused about it because it’s against type—I’m more of a confident guy, work out, and have a relatively large dick. So for her, she was arosed by a guy who just took her because he wanted her, so even though his dick was tiny, the aura made her hot.

Ultimately, it’s still too soon to think about any sex life with her, but it stings to know what I was trying to do throughout the last few years—documented in this thread—may have contributed to her cheating on me.

It’s a lot to process.

Like someone else said you didn't cause her to cheat but it is correct that what's been going on in bed for the last few years contributed to the current situation. Read back through your posts and you can see an unfortunate pattern of you two being on separate paths. You've been playing a sex game, a fairly sophisticated one of boundaries and feelings being pushed and tested, but has she? Have you communicated with her about this over the years, or just assumed she was onboard because it was happening and you wanted it? I recall at one point you said it wasn't an issue because neither one of you wanted actual intercourse and that she just winds up resenting it. It seems to me that a direct and explicit conversation outside of the bedroom was long overdue at that point - and look at where you are now.

People have mentioned couples counseling, and if I were in your position I'd push very hard for that and I'd commit fully to it. Take a look at what's going on in your marriage right now and think long and hard about what you want and how to get there. You and your wife must do these things together if you're going to have a solid, ling lasting and successful marriage and you're not doing that right now.

Lastly, as much as I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years if I were in your position the last thing I would do is turn to an anonymous sex forum on the internet for advice and support. I expect others here will disagree with me, but the fact of the matter is that none of us know what's real and what's fantasy here. If you're going to get past this and thrive in your marriage you'll need to do it together with your wife in equal partnership. The advice and guidance of folks here might sound like it comes from experience and make you feel good, but it's all based on your side of the story and your emotional response. And again, you don't really know what's real and what isn't here.

Good.luck, I hope that you find what you are looking for.

I agree that I was playing with fire. I think we're going to try to dig into this issue today--perhaps even going through this thread a bit with her to give context.

We're heading to counseling on Tuesday.

As for this forum, you're absolutely right lol. I noticed early on that most of the posts in this forum were obvious fantasy, but I made it a point to keep everything in my thread honest, even if it was less arousing. The result, I feel, is that any readers of this thread know I'm not giving any bull shit--this is pure reality--and I feel people have largely been very helpful. And I'm not making any major decisions based on advise here, but reading it has quite simply been very helpful these last few days.

[drstrangelove]

Echoing Jackson's post. Try to take care of yourself this weekend. Do you like to do and that will help you stabilize. Eat well, get out and exercise /workout, try to avoid a lot of alcohol, do something fun with your kids. Focus on getting to Tuesday and take one step at a time. If you are looking for some good sources of information on Infidelity, research Esther Perel, internationally renowned psychologist. She has a number of Ted Talks, YouTube and an excellent books on relationships and infidelity - mating in captivity and the state of affairs. This may sound a bit harsh but your old marriage is over. It is now up to both you to decide if you can create new marriage out of its ashes. As others have said, neither path is easy and both have opportunities for growth in different directions. This is the end of the beginning and its a long race.

It doesn't sound harsh. I think that's one thing we both agree on--we're not going back to our old marriage. I think we've made some great strides in communication this week, even though her lying has made it unnecessarily difficult at times. My position is that we're either building something we both can embrace or we'll call it quits.

Truthfully, even if we do divorce, I'm not eager to do it too quickly. My wife has really been in a bad spot these last few months--in large part because of the affair. Another revelation that came out is her new drinking problem. She's been hiding alcohol around the house so she can sneak it without me noticing (among the kids cups, etc.). She says she was using it as a crutch to improve her sex life. She felt like she needed to be a little bit drunk to get into sex with me and because of her guilt, she was making a point of doing it.

She was in an incredibly unhealthy position with the affair, crazy job, PTA, new/growing social circle, two young kids and a drinking problem. She was ready to crash and burn and she admitted to some relief now that she doesn't feel like she's going 100 mph.

[Lucky Dog]

I wish I had something positive to say. Your last post sounds like you are defeated.
Don't give up. You will wake up every morning and function. Life goes on whether we like it or not.
You have to ask yourself if you can live with this and move on and grow or start a completely new life with custody orders etc.

The lack of sleep is becoming concerning. I got a full night’s sleep on Monday, but a total of maybe 3-4 hours since. I’m losing function and clarity, but I can’t force my mind to turn off.

We spent another few hours talking this morning. I think it was positive. I also think I need to talk to someone else, so I’m going to plan to chat with my mom today to see if helps.

I’m just struggling to get over all the text messages she sent me over the last several months. Reading through the texts when I know the days she was seeing him just destroys her character. And that naked photo of her in the hotel she was at waiting for him in Feb. while she pretended to be in a different state for work is beyond the pale.

Edit: I also want to add, she doesn’t think it was conscious on her part, but she agrees that our recent sexlife has made her think of me as a “door mat” in bed. She is confused about it because it’s against type—I’m more of a confident guy, work out, and have a relatively large dick. So for her, she was arosed by a guy who just took her because he wanted her, so even though his dick was tiny, the aura made her hot.

Ultimately, it’s still too soon to think about any sex life with her, but it stings to know what I was trying to do throughout the last few years—documented in this thread—may have contributed to her cheating on me.

It’s a lot to process.

This is so much to process. Take care of yourself -- you need to get sleep and feel healthy, to be able to make the right decisions for yourself, your children, and your family. All the time you were thinking of embarking on a sexual adventure with your wife, she was thinking about doing something on her own. I know this may not seem important now, but why she had the affair and why she was so dishonest with you are important factors in whether you should or could repair your marriage.

This has hit you so suddenly, but you don't have to rush into making a decision. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt for loving your wife and being honest with her, and you need to ask as much from her. Keep in mind that couples therapy is not for the purpose of "fixing" the marriage but is first for the purpose of seeing whether you can have an honest, loving, and good marriage going forward. If you can, then the therapy could be of help in making that happen. If you come to believe you can't, then it may still be valuable in arranging an ending that is least painful to all the family members.

I remember the couples therapy with my ex wife. The therapist asked my ex why she had deceived her (the therapist) instead of being truthful in the therapy. My ex simply replied, "because if you insist on that, you're working only for my husband and I'm going to walk out now and never come back." At the time, I didn't at all feel better to see she lied to the therapist as she had to me. When my friends all told me, "That proves she's just a liar," I still didn't feel any better knowing it was "her fault"

She left for a man she had met a few months earlier. For about five years, they had what seemed like a great time. After that, they spent more than a decade going through a horrible battle in the courts. He later apologized to me for believing all the bad things she had told him about me, and explained she later treated him just as badly as she had treated me.

The point of this story is not to get this off my chest -- I'm long since past that. The point is that if a woman can't be honest in her most important relationships, there is no chance of a good future in the current relationship or the next one. Finding out if she can be honest is a necessary step before trying to save the marriage.

[drstrangelove]

I wish I had something positive to say. Your last post sounds like you are defeated.
Don't give up. You will wake up every morning and function. Life goes on whether we like it or not.
You have to ask yourself if you can live with this and move on and grow or start a completely new life with custody orders etc.

The lack of sleep is becoming concerning. I got a full night’s sleep on Monday, but a total of maybe 3-4 hours since. I’m losing function and clarity, but I can’t force my mind to turn off.

We spent another few hours talking this morning. I think it was positive. I also think I need to talk to someone else, so I’m going to plan to chat with my mom today to see if helps.

I’m just struggling to get over all the text messages she sent me over the last several months. Reading through the texts when I know the days she was seeing him just destroys her character. And that naked photo of her in the hotel she was at waiting for him in Feb. while she pretended to be in a different state for work is beyond the pale.

Edit: I also want to add, she doesn’t think it was conscious on her part, but she agrees that our recent sexlife has made her think of me as a “door mat” in bed. She is confused about it because it’s against type—I’m more of a confident guy, work out, and have a relatively large dick. So for her, she was arosed by a guy who just took her because he wanted her, so even though his dick was tiny, the aura made her hot.

Ultimately, it’s still too soon to think about any sex life with her, but it stings to know what I was trying to do throughout the last few years—documented in this thread—may have contributed to her cheating on me.

It’s a lot to process.

This is so much to process. Take care of yourself -- you need to get sleep and feel healthy, to be able to make the right decisions for yourself, your children, and your family. All the time you were thinking of embarking on a sexual adventure with your wife, she was thinking about doing something on her own. I know this may not seem important now, but why she had the affair and why she was so dishonest with you are important factors in whether you should or could repair your marriage.

This has hit you so suddenly, but you don't have to rush into making a decision. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt for loving your wife and being honest with her, and you need to ask as much from her. Keep in mind that couples therapy is not for the purpose of "fixing" the marriage but is first for the purpose of seeing whether you can have an honest, loving, and good marriage going forward. If you can, then the therapy could be of help in making that happen. If you come to believe you can't, then it may still be valuable in arranging an ending that is least painful to all the family members.

I remember the couples therapy with my ex wife. The therapist asked my ex why she had deceived her (the therapist) instead of being truthful in the therapy. My ex simply replied, "because if you insist on that, you're working only for my husband and I'm going to walk out now and never come back." At the time, I didn't at all feel better to see she lied to the therapist as she had to me. When my friends all told me, "That proves she's just a liar," I still didn't feel any better knowing it was "her fault"

She left for a man she had met a few months earlier. For about five years, they had what seemed like a great time. After that, they spent more than a decade going through a horrible battle in the courts. He later apologized to me for believing all the bad things she had told him about me, and explained she later treated him just as badly as she had treated me.

The point of this story is not to get this off my chest -- I'm long since past that. The point is that if a woman can't be honest in her most important relationships, there is no chance of a good future in the current relationship or the next one. Finding out if she can be honest is a necessary step before trying to save the marriage.

I agree with you. Since her panic attack last night, she has been different. She is now just matter of fairly answering my questions and communicating with me. We had a really good talk today and it gave me hope that we could have a happy future.

Still, I don’t doubt she could slip up and see him again in a month (she had plans to see him in the city this week and they were arranging their next hotel visit/fake work trip).

I also am not assuming it’s inevitable that I’ll forgive her for what she has done to me and my children. Her integrity is zero now, and I know myself well enough to know that I may subconsciously begin to lose respect for her and fall out of love quickly.

I’m preparing for the worst mentally, but very much hoping reconciliation comes.

[drstrangelove]

Another thought I’d like some feedback on because it’s holding me up. We’ve dug through a bit more of the truth today and there’s a level of contempt she displayed for me throughout the affair. As a collective, I’m finding it hard to forgive her for this because it feels like targeted cruelty.

I’ll likely discuss these with the therapist to help me understand her intent in lashing out with these.

- No condom, no birth control, risk of STD for me.

- Repeated texting and sexting of guy while watching TV with me in evening.

- Seeing him in NYC and kissing, blowjobs and swallowing directly prior to coming home for dinner and kissing me hello. She did not travel with mouthwash.

- Sending nude photo of herself to me while in a hotel room waiting for him to arrive (while lying about being on a work trip instead).

- I spent about $800 on her for Valentine’s Day with two dinners and roses that week. She celebrated Vday by sending a pic of herself from her office bathroom wearing bra and panties to guy.

- She spent $400+ on two nights at a hotel with him where she explored sexual acts she has fiercely rejected with me over the course of our relationship.

[jratt85]

yeah, that reminds me of another thread on here... giving it all to him and not to you.. That's not the act of a lover that's the act of a vindictive bitch. It still sounds like she's trying to make herself out to be the victim and you the aggressor (damn Russia creeping in on me) instead of accepting that it's all her fault. I still wonder more about her past sex life and the reality of what she did. I honestly don't believe that the things she's said about him being the best she's ever been with, the biggest, or recently tiny are true at all. I think he's probably just average and she just gets off on cheating on you, no matter how much she says that it caused her to drink from the stress of hiding it. If it really was that big of an issue, you would've noticed more.. or at least you'd think you would. It definitely does explain a little of her violent mood swings though. I wonder if she could also be pre-menopausal at this point.. I know my sister is going through it and she's only 39... could be part of why her hormones/mental capabilities are out of whack and why she was willing to risk it now.

I still would not be surprised to hear that she's cheated in the past, whether on you or past boyfriends and it's a thrill that she loves, I mean the comment about getting over him in a few months.. how does she know how long that'd take if she hasn't done it before? My opinion, pay attention to the details and find the slivers of truth hidden in all the bullshit.