Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[slenderfish]

No advice on my post, only a couple of questions ...
1- Was there bareback with Mr S?
2- Did SW share her lovely ass with him?


(PS- I did read your guess as a betting man, I was just wondering if there has been a definitive answer ...)

1 - Yes bareback both night Sun and Mon. Said there is volume of cum that runs out.

2 - Still unclear, not specified in her summary so I'll guess not, but I still haven't asked outright. I'll get to the bottom of this as soon as I am able (pun intended).

Will you try and anal train her until her next visit with Mr S? I think it could be worth the effort.

I also think it could be worth the effort. Practice makes perfect! We did go through an anal phase about seven years ago and she readily accepts up to three fingers in her ass when she is in the heat of pre-orgasmic bliss. So it's really a matter of desire for her. If she desires to be ready for Mr. S then I see this working out, a win-win-win.

[slenderfish]

I'm as fastidious as the best of em.
My taxes are done on new years day.

No one deletes texts for neatness.

The warning signs are flashing red everywhere.

This is all like a drug. Your in the haze of it. Seeing but not seeing whats right in front of you.

I suspect she's been deleting texts for a long time for the same reason she is now. And not for neatness.

She has been actively showing me the texts since we discussed it. I thanked her and said that after some time I can envision not really being interested in seeing the texts as much as I am right now, that it's all quite new to both of us and therefore I am at this point sensitive about texts deleted and I do encourage her to continue to share without limitation until or unless I let her know otherwise. She continues to be okay with it.

Of course, time will have to show how this works out.

[slenderfish]

LOL!
Monogamish is like pregnantish ... Either you are, or you are not.
Giving up on HW'ing but not giving up seeing other men? That is an oxymoron (self contradicting)
On the matter of the texts ... Props to her, and you for clearing that up right quick.
On the bareback trysts ... Congratulations! But this is an area that does require strict care and control.

I think SW's interest in exploration is only just getting started. It must be exciting and thrilling to her, even though she does not yet have a notion on her future adventures, but given her ardor to see Mr S again, and her self-invite to vacationing with him (which may be a no-go), are indications that she is ready to dive into the pool. Maybe 'wade' into the pool fits her personality better, but her libido is only likely to increase (It looks like it has already).

Maybe this would be a good time to get her a sexier wardrobe for her everyday.

I agree the logical error of these concepts. I think she was implying that if she can't do hotwifing to my and/or her satisfaction, then if she abandons it, perhaps she will suggest continuing in a "monogamish" structure whereby she and I grant each other flexibility to see other people from time to time.

Of course I told her that is not on the table, that we are pursuing a hotwife lifestyle and we are finding out what works and what doesn't work for us, as we go along. That we need to remain committed to this path and see how it develops, and not be thinking of other distracting concepts.

She is now actively talking about a breast enhancement, one that I'd been supporting for several years as a concept. Now she's up for it!

[slenderfish]

We had a couple of friends over last night for a quiet take-out-eat-in dinner, to join us and the niece and her new boyfriend. These friends are red wine people. So it flowed, and SW ended up on the dance pole.

I whispered to her that I will take a video with my phone and if she likes it she might consider sending it to Mr. S as a tease. She loved the idea and tried to dance extra sexy. It didn't really come out well, too many other people in the background despite my efforts to avoid that, but she hasn't seen it yet.

I am thinking to suggest a repeat effort without other people in the room (just her and me) so that she can really go for it.

[whenwillshe]

Curious as to why she would do a breast enhancement when she looks like she does.
Just my opinion but going larger just looks so unnatural and she is so hot now.....
Why subject oneself to unnecessary surgery for vanity?
Is it some level of insecurity that drives this?

[Parsifal]

I've taken photos of my wife for her to send to lovers, a few posted on the Hotties forum. Like selecting her wardrobe for a date. Tie her dates to the fabric of your marriage by making it a couples experience, before and after.

[Parsifal]

Curious as to why she would do a breast enhancement when she looks like she does.
Just my opinion but going larger just looks so unnatural and she is so hot now.....
Why subject oneself to unnecessary surgery for vanity?
Is it some level of insecurity that drives this?

Women who have had several children benefit from reconstructive surgery, my wife being one. I showed her a MILF video a few years back that planted the seed to go bigger. She is now pushing the limit of "looking natural" so talk of going any larger gets no traction with me. As it is, she's on the edge, literally, of having that slutty look when she's "dressed for success." She's total eye candy and her confidence level with men is supreme. When she walks in a restaurant, for example, and she's in a low cut, form fitting dress, literally every man's eyes are on her. SW strikes me as cut from the same stuff. And I agree with your comment completely that hers look amazing already. So beware trying to make something perfect even more so.

The downside of breast enhancement, in addition to the risk of selecting an implant that looks too big or lacking the right heft to be natural - unnaturalness of texture is just as off putting and disproportionate in size - is that it can leave visible scars, particularly if the procedure is reconstructive (lifting) and not just an enhancement. We needed a follow-up procedure for that.

[Mark K]

Curious as to why she would do a breast enhancement when she looks like she does.
Just my opinion but going larger just looks so unnatural and she is so hot now.....
Why subject oneself to unnecessary surgery for vanity?
Is it some level of insecurity that drives this?

Women who have had several children benefit from reconstructive surgery, my wife being one. I showed her a MILF video a few years back that planted the seed to go bigger. She is now pushing the limit of "looking natural" so talk of going any larger gets no traction with me. As it is, she's on the edge, literally, of having that slutty look when she's "dressed for success." She's total eye candy and her confidence level with men is supreme. When she walks in a restaurant, for example, and she's in a low cut, form fitting dress, literally every man's eyes are on her. SW strikes me as cut from the same stuff. And I agree with your comment completely that hers look amazing already. So beware trying to make something perfect even more so.

The downside of breast enhancement, in addition to the risk of selecting an implant that looks too big or lacking the right heft to be natural - unnaturalness of texture is just as off putting and disproportionate in size - is that it can leave visible scars, particularly if the procedure is reconstructive (lifting) and not just an enhancement. We needed a follow-up procedure for that.

I am sure SF will respond, but he has told us in the past that SW currently has implants. She was a natural A, and is now an enhanced C cup.

[Aureus]

No advice on my post, only a couple of questions ...
1- Was there bareback with Mr S?
2- Did SW share her lovely ass with him?


(PS- I did read your guess as a betting man, I was just wondering if there has been a definitive answer ...)

1 - Yes bareback both night Sun and Mon. Said there is volume of cum that runs out.

2 - Still unclear, not specified in her summary so I'll guess not, but I still haven't asked outright. I'll get to the bottom of this as soon as I am able (pun intended).

Will you try and anal train her until her next visit with Mr S? I think it could be worth the effort.

I also think it could be worth the effort. Practice makes perfect! We did go through an anal phase about seven years ago and she readily accepts up to three fingers in her ass when she is in the heat of pre-orgasmic bliss. So it's really a matter of desire for her. If she desires to be ready for Mr. S then I see this working out, a win-win-win.

Could you get more details about her night with Mr S? And have those plugs reappeared? With being able to take 3 fingers she should be easily able to take the plugs or cock.

[coastalkid]

We had a couple of friends over last night for a quiet take-out-eat-in dinner, to join us and the niece and her new boyfriend. These friends are red wine people. So it flowed, and SW ended up on the dance pole.

I keep forgetting that SW is a pole dancer and that you have one at home. It takes a certain hidden inner need to want to be seen pole dancing, I would think. That in and of itself infers an open mind to other behaviors. SW knows she's attractive and that it's amplified by an attractive woman dancing on a pole. The confidence to pole dance has to extend to other parts of her personality and ego. Now that the proverbial ball is rolling is it clear to you why SW is into it?

[slenderfish]

Curious as to why she would do a breast enhancement when she looks like she does.
Just my opinion but going larger just looks so unnatural and she is so hot now.....
Why subject oneself to unnecessary surgery for vanity?
Is it some level of insecurity that drives this?

Not attempting to go larger, per se.

She has implants from almost 20 years ago that are saline, and she has been limited in the kinds of tops and swim attire she wears, because they are too firm and unnaturally round, and they tend to hang too far apart except when reigned in by the right kind of bra, etc.

So she has been flirting with swapping out for the newer gummy-texture silicon teardrop-shaped implants.

It's funny in some ways, because we've always acknowledged that a woman does enhancements for herself (which remains true) but the timing of her hotwifing does lead to a deduced conclusion that she is doing this because of the new men (and perhaps those in the future she anticipates) seeing and touching and feeling her naked body.

[slenderfish]

We had a couple of friends over last night for a quiet take-out-eat-in dinner, to join us and the niece and her new boyfriend. These friends are red wine people. So it flowed, and SW ended up on the dance pole.

I keep forgetting that SW is a pole dancer and that you have one at home. It takes a certain hidden inner need to want to be seen pole dancing, I would think. That in and of itself infers an open mind to other behaviors. SW knows she's attractive and that it's amplified by an attractive woman dancing on a pole. The confidence to pole dance has to extend to other parts of her personality and ego. Now that the proverbial ball is rolling is it clear to you why SW is into it?

Yes, I always knew, at some level, that this was inside of her. Always a puzzle to figure out the x-factor that opens the door.

Your post reminded me of something from this past summer. I'd mentioned her girlfriend Ms. M (who recently moved out of state and SW hosted her going-away party at our house but SW ended up not attending, preferring instead to remain in her bedroom, sleeping all night). Ms. M was the one who suggested the pole, back in July (at our 4th of July party when she got SW to do some faux-lap dances with her, for the guys). This came up again after that party, and we got the pole in advance of our August party. Before that party, Ms. M had done some basic pole dancing instruction for SW and some of the girls, but SW really took the lead on driving these. At the August party, Ms M did a couple of dance numbers on the pole and encouraged SW to also show what she had learned, which she did. That night, Ms. M sat down next to me at some later point and asked how I liked the new pole, did I think we were going to get our money's worth, etc. I said I'm happy with it, especially if SW actually uses it and learns some more moves.

Ms. M said "it'll change her life, and your life."

By the time of the September party, Ms. M reminded me of our prior conversation and asked it this "life change" had started to occur and I said that we were seeing early signs of these changes, and that these may prove out more so within a few weeks. Of course, Ms. M was implying more and more sensual sex between me and SW. Little did Ms. M know that in late August I'd had the big hotwife conversation with SW and that SW had then already made plans to meet-up with Mr. S for the purpose of hotwifing, on her next trip to her hometown, in mid-September (like, the following week from that conversation with Ms. M).

And the rest is (recent) history.

So I give Ms. M and the pole a lot of props for this. Perhaps in the case of SW, the pole itself was the key that unlocked SW.

I'll go with that unless or until proven otherwise.

[BallSpanking]

Is Ms M aware of SW's hotwifing?

[54321]

Things do seem to be going better, SF, but you are clearly still working on getting SW to really understand hotwifing from the point of view of all stakeholders.

If she joined this forum and became a verified hotwife, she could draw on the collective experience of the hotwives in the Ladies' Forum.

Might those ladies just tell her what you've been telling her all along? Maybe. But so often, when people hear it from another voice, particularly from someone who stands to win or lose nothing, all of a sudden, they actually get it!

Then, she will probably turn to you and say, "Why didn't you tell me that?" And you're just going to have to smile.

54321

[slenderfish]

SW's reconnecting encounter with Mr. S on Sunday, November 29:

We left the hotel room, heading to SW's sister's house where the 75th birthday party for SW's mother was being held, at about 11:30 a.m. to arrive just before noon. We brought a bottle of white wine and left one remaining bottle of Daou (red) in the hotel room.

After I left directly from there for the airport at 2:00 (with my son in the additional rental car he had), SW stayed at her sister's house with her mother and the rest of her family for about another hour, visiting and hanging out until the group started breaking up. SW drove back to her hotel, about a 20-minute drive, and reconfirmed with Mr. S along the way, agreeing that they will meet up at 6:30 p.m. for a nice dinner and a chance to reconnect with conversation, a bottle of wine, etc.

She relaxed in the hotel room and showered, and got herself primped up. She considered running down the street to the local place for more wine, but didn't want to venture out into the cold after getting all ready.

Mr. S texted that he was running about a half hour late, and that he'd dropped his son for overnight at his ex-wife's place. Seems at this point that he does consistently run late, but SW observed that she is the same and it's okay. It may or may not be useful to note that when I run late, she gets very cranky.

He arrived at the hotel and she met him in the downstairs hotel lobby. She had not seen him since their successful encounter in mid-October. He gave her a hug and a full kiss, on the lips. She told me it was no big kiss and I observed that he was likely testing the waters, so to say, gauging her reaction (face and body) with that first kiss. Otherwise, he could have gone for the cheek kiss or air kiss. She had accepted that full kiss without any resistance, so he was then satisfied it was a warm welcome. Again, my observations to SW.

They sat in an obscure part of the hotel lobby level and made their plans for dinner. She requested to get food from a nice restaurant about 50 yards from the hotel entrance, and although he knows that restaurant and doesn't prefer it, he agreed and they called in the order. They continued to hang downstairs until the order was ready, and at the same time debated the best way to get a bottle of wine to pair with dinner. SW suggested a quick run to the local liquor story down the street (the one she was considering walking to earlier) but realized it closed early on Sunday nights. So they walked over and picked up the dinners, and purchased a bottle of wine from the restaurant at their marked-up price.

They carried the dinner packages and wine up to the executive lounge of the hotel, which was available to SW because of my frequent traveler status. It was a perfect solution to this covid-19 challenge, because it is very private and there are large and small tables. Also because the hotel was virtually empty by Sunday night. The hotel was so underbooked that all but two (of the approx 12 floors) were fully closed to guests. So they had the place to themselves.

I'll take credit for this. She had been concerned about the closures for Covid-19 and the fact that there was no dining-in at any restaurants. She didn't really want to eat their first reconnecting dinner in the hotel room, that's just to intimate right off the bat. I'd then asked her about eating in the hotel lobby, and she said she had inquired but that the hotel staff said it's prohibited. I then went down to the front desk (by myself) and asked if we could use the executive lounge during our stay (with my status) and they said it's not "open" per se, in that it's not stocked or attended in the standard way, but that our room key could be coded so that we could go in there and watch television and do some computer work. Voila!

They selected a small table in the corner, where the lighting is more dim and it is more cozy. Went through the dinner and a glass or two of wine. The executive lounge had supplies including wine glasses, and they spent a couple of hours over dinner and just enjoying each others' company, finding out more about each other, etc.

SW of course has a process of getting to know a man, which is what she used to use when dating. So she naturally approached this in the same way, the approach being to see if he is boyfriend material. She asked about himself, his career, his history, etc. Said he was open and very nice and she quickly grew to like and trust him. Said he wasn't quite as inquisitive about her, which appears to be his laid-back style.

After a time, they discarded the dinners and carried the wine glasses and bottle to the hotel elevator and went to the room level. Walked into her (our) hotel room and immediately started deep kissing. She said his style of kissing included more and deeper tongue than is her preference, but didn't complain to him.

She adjusted the lighting of the room by opening the shades so the outside light could allow them to just see each other, and turned off all the electric lights. This apparently in lieu of candles.

She described the standard blur of kissing, fondling, feelings of passion and desire such that they were suddenly on the bed, completely naked.

She had his dick in her hand and immediately went down on him.

I asked her if she remembered the same taste and feel of his cock in her mouth from the last time. She said it was about the same, that his body is rather smooth and also between his legs. He has much less body hair than she is used to. She generally prefers smoother skin and less hair.

At this point I asked her if she had re-shaved her pussy in anticipation, during her process of getting ready earlier. She reminded me that she had been keeping it completely shaved all week, but that she did touch it up during her earlier shower.

She worked his cock with her mouth for some time, and then he pulled her around so that he could use his mouth on her pussy. She laid back and waited for the warm feeling of impending orgasm but said he wasn't particularly committed to it and before it got too advanced, he moved her back on top of him and laid back.

She saw this as the invitation to straddle him and did so, slowly lowering herself down on his cock.

I asked her if they had decided regarding a condom.

She replied that she had mentioned during their dinner that she would like their encounter to be bareback tonight.

That explained the easy transition, without any awkwardness, from the dinner to the lovemaking.

So she rode him bareback for the first time. I asked her if she liked the feel of it, compared to the last time with a condom. She said that she of course liked it better.

I asked her if she liked the feeling of being filled up by him, by his size. She repeated (from the last time) that he is not unusually big, but that of course he is a very all man and that his cock is proportionate to his tall body. I asked her if, when she had him in her mouth, she had one hand around it and then her mouth on top, or if it was two hands around it and then her mouth. I believe she said two hands.

He laid back and watched her as she moved up and down on his cock, gyrating and stimulating her vagina. He fondled her breasts, leaning up with his mouth to kiss and suckle them.

While she continued riding him in this cowgirl position, he slowly moved one hand down from her breasts to her pussy, and then started softly playing with her lips and then her clit. Teased it and then as she started enjoying it more and more, responded with a bit firmer touch and then she said that her body caught the frenzy and delivered a shaking orgasm. She is not a moaner or screamer, but somewhere in the middle, more of a shrieker. Her orgasm style and sound is very erotic.

He flipped her on her back and entered her missionary style, just how she likes. By now she was fully wet and there was no issue with taking his full cock all the way.

I noted to her that sometimes when she is on her back and I pull her legs up, that my cock hits the back of her vagina and she asks me to not go so deep, that it is too painful. I asked her if his longer cock bumped against that place and caused any issue. She paused and said no, there wasn't any of that. I said that perhaps his length allows him to just bypass that point and go deeper. She said she didn't know, but that it was just fine going all the way in and she liked the feeling of extra fullness.

She said he moved around a lot from within this position, different angles and depths, and then moved to a fast mode that was unusual in her experiences. I referred to a piston and jackrabbit, a frenzied fast in and out, and she said that was it. Said it didn't add any extra pleasure for her, and was perhaps a bit distracting. Also that she'd had her orgasm, and was coming down from the pleasure. She said all that movement in and out and her wandering mind (regarding the rabbit technique) caused her to lose a bit of her wetness, and Mr. S was aware enough to ask if she was okay and didn't want to make her overly sore. She said she was okay. He knew that he should finish and did so shortly thereafter.

I asked her if she was able to feel the pulsating of his cock and the expulsion, and she said yes. I asked her if it was a large volume and she said that there was plenty. I asked if there was a lot that dripped out and she said yes, and that it was convenient at hotel towel was within reach to catch the spill-out before it got all over the bed.

They did not lay together very long after that. It was Sunday night, just past midnight, and Mr. S had some early morning meetings. So he kissed her goodnight and went home.

They already had plans to get together again the next night, as well.

She got herself ready for sleeping and left me the voicemail at around 12:30 a.m. her time.

[slenderfish]

Is Ms M aware of SW's hotwifing?

No.

But there was one time before Ms. M moved, when she was at our house pre-planning her going-away party, that the conversation did go in a direction that allowed me to kind of obtusely interject something about SW getting ahead of herself with the pole.

I showed Ms. M the video of SW and Mr. B, the one where it is looks almost obvious SW is seducing Mr. B. I kind of did it before SW realized what was happening. SW did not appreciate that at all.

I assured Ms. M that I did not suspect any foul play, but that I'd showed her the video solely for the pole conversation.

[Aureus]

Amazing update. Very hot. Cannot wait for the follow up on Monday night with Mr S. I bet it was even hotter.

[slenderfish]

Two random observations I think worth sharing for those who have been following this journey and follow some of the nuances.

1) SW over the weekend randomly asked me if I'm now even more settled that she and Mr. B never crossed any line, into the sex realm.

2) Yesterday out of the blue in the late afternoon as SW was showering and I was taking a bit of a nap, I heard a knock at the front door. The dog barked and I partially saw a tall black man (about 6'2") with a motorcycle helmet on his head, through the glass. I looked into my mind as to whether there was some kind of UPS or Amazon delivery that may require a signature. Upon opening the door, I kind of recognized the guy from somewhere but he was wearing full motorcycle riding gear, boots, camo-chaps, etc. As he pulled off the helmet it came to me that he is someone I have met and then it hit me -- SW's personal trainer. Mr. G! He's only been to our house once before, about four years ago, to discuss doing some side work for me but that never panned out. He said he'd been invited by SW to stop by this weekend if he's out and about on his chopper, and had sent her a text a bit earlier that he'll be around in the late afternoon. I noted SW is in the shower but that she'll be delighted to see him and to come on in! He followed me upstairs and I peeked my head into the bedroom and noted to SW that she has a visitor. She smiled and donned her bathrobe, and came out to visit with him and then showed him around the house, the remodel, etc. for a half hour. Then we all went outside to see his bike and he showed us the customizing he's done from when it was a stock model. He fired it up and rode off, literally "into the sunset." I wish I'd suggested that he should take SW for a spin then, or sometime in the future.

[Aureus]

Did you ask btw what she was wearing for him? Outfit? Lingerie?

[slenderfish]

Did you ask btw what she was wearing for him? Outfit? Lingerie?

I'll ask for the details on that. She is not a lingerie girl. Doesn't really think like that at this point, nor does she think about dressing "sexy" but rather goes for her personal style. I figure she probably wore some flattering jeans and cute/sexy boot plus a sweater or similar. Nothing to grab the attention of the hotel staff or any other guests, but at the same time very attractive.

Remember, she is not one to think about "pleasing" a man. She is used to having him chase after her.

I'll agree to a point with Mr. S' first comment when SW pushed him away in September upon their first meetup; he said she was being "stingy" with herself. That's kind of her approach (until more recently). So it's a mind set that extends to how she dresses, presents herself, etc.

[XYAlpha]

3) Said even if she gives up hotwifing, she doesn't envision giving up other men(!). I used the metaphor of the "genie out of the bottle" and she seems to agree. Said she might suggest some kind of monogamish lifestyle for us. I think this is a good sign, but I did circle that energy back to hotwifing and there is sits.

4) I think she believes having sex with me is a big wild card she is able to play. She's probably correct in large part, but at the same time I'm happy she's been playing this card.

SF,

Forgive me if appear a little negative - but for those that know, I have certainly earned a different perspective than the common one being that the LS is all Skittles and rainbows.

For #3 this sounds a little disheartening. Almost a small, nuanced, threat that if you stop her from HW'ing, she will continue with men. There is a lot of room here to interpret what she meant but it sounds like an affair has certainly been considered. Monogamish does not sound like what you want. I think you need to very seriously consider what she said and dig deeper.

For #4, how does having sex with you even come into the discussion? As I read your adventure, it appeared that you two were having sex before she became a HW. There is no reason that she should stop unless there is a new Cuck element developing. IMO it sounds more ominous that she would WITHHOLD sex from you as a lever! She should not be correct in that any more than you will cut off her credit cards to encourage her to have sex with you! Withholding after the fact is dirty and would lead me to put the brakes on the whole endeavor. What else will you be asked to give up in order to have sex with your own wife?

If she is not getting what she wants out of this, she should stop. If you are not getting what you want out of this, you should stop. YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND EACH OTHERS WANTS AND NEEDS for this to work and meet those.

I just don't get the circumstance where a woman has been granted a tremendous privilege, and rather than appreciating that, she tries turning it into more (or less) than what was agreed. Of course, I am not speaking for ANY HW or VHW - some of which are publicly very grateful to their husbands for the incredible privilege thay have been given.

You have been overly accomodating, kind, and patient. IMO it is time for Pinky to reciprocate and be grateful for the opportunity you have given her and for her to agree to some of your wants and needs (if not all of them). You should consider a demand that you work together on this (texting, calls, meets, dates, AGREEMENTS) - otherwise - IMO - you are always going to be left behind hoping for a small physical crumb from her (but you will still be expected to support her in a manner that she is accustomed to...) Some of you will understand my specific choice of words there...

Along the lines of alarm bells over her self-invitation to a foreign villa, comes her Trainer to the door without a discussion with you that she invited him over. To your home! Another red flag example of her going in a direction ALONE - no teamwork or coordination with you.

Had you discussed with her an interracial encounter?
Of course, I am not saying there is ANYTHING wrong with an interracial date - however it seems like that would be a discussion to make sure everyone was OK with it. (My HW had several dates with different "non-white" men) but we discussed it first.

It seems that there is something new at every turn! IMO, this many surprises - this early into the LS - signals some serious challenges. You and Pinky do not seem to be on the same page , or chapter.

Not looking good sir!

XY

[AstaSilva]

SW's reconnecting encounter with Mr. S on Sunday, November 29:

I normally only cum with visuals but this scenario was too much for me to resist

[Tryn]

I’m not sure if I missed the details of her sex with Mr. M or if just didn’t provide them. Her voicemail on it wasn’t detailed but I’d love to learn the details of her and Mr. M! Maybe you intentionally withheld those details, which is certainly your prerogative.

Really enjoying your thread!

[regular3]

Thanks for the sexy update.
Just a couple of questions:
Did anything happen on the Tuesday night or was she travelling?
How did she respond to your comment about going for a ride on the PT's motorbike ?

[slenderfish]

SF,

For #3 this sounds a little disheartening. Almost a small, nuanced, threat that if you stop her from HW'ing, she will continue with men. There is a lot of room here to interpret what she meant but it sounds like an affair has certainly been considered. Monogamish does not sound like what you want. I think you need to very seriously consider what she said and dig deeper.

For #4, how does having sex with you even come into the discussion? As I read your adventure, it appeared that you two were having sex before she became a HW. There is no reason that she should stop unless there is a new Cuck element developing. IMO it sounds more ominous that she would WITHHOLD sex from you as a lever! She should not be correct in that any more than you will cut off her credit cards to encourage her to have sex with you! Withholding after the fact is dirty and would lead me to put the brakes on the whole endeavor. What else will you be asked to give up in order to have sex with your own wife?

Thanks for your thoughtful analysis. I agree with you on almost everything that seems like a possible downward trail. I've clearly put SW up to some of this and watched as she has taken (and continues to take) more line than I was thinking. But at the same time, I'm fully aware of these and am still confident that the risk/reward balance is still there, at least for me. More specific clarifications:

#3 I noted that I think it's a good thing because she has now formed in her mind that she would like to continue with other men at one level or another, and if I ultimately conclude that hotwifing is not working for me, or if she thinks it's not working for her, she is telegraphing in advance that she would like to discuss a fallback possibility of a semi-open marriage. She is making this stuff up as she goes along, so a lot is just brainstorming stuff that spills out before she thinks and deeper. So when she mentioned monogamish, I immediately dismissed it so that she will not go back there. That's not what hotwifing is, and we are presently on this path. We are committed to focusing on this path and will continue to communicate and provide mutual feedback from this perspective. Considering anything else is considering leaving this path, so is counterproductive to where we are now and where we are heading as a couple. She understood that and agreed to refocus. I also said that if we for any reason abandon the hotwifing effort, it will then need to result in a grand revisit of our marriage as to whether we can even try to go back to where we were, or what is possible on a go-forward basis. This led to the "genie out of the bottle" conversation and it replayed along the same track; the genie is a hotwife genie and not a monogamish genie, so we need to deal with this genie and make it work. For her. And for me. This was an "aha" moment for her and she then started agreeing and acknowledging more that I need to get more out of this in order to find balance for each of us and for both of us.

#4 The "more sex" element is not with reference to lack of sex before, or any reference to withholding sex. It's merely that her libido is increased and that she is finding that using that extra libido with me for more frequent sex (compared to the past) has additional benefits in that I will count these as one additional element of the additional balance I've been requesting from her.

The trainer coming over, that was more harmless than anything. But at the same time, it's a slight (very slight) departure from the norm. Wheareas in the past she kept him separate from me, because she thought I'd get these crazy ideas about her with him and those were unwelcome from her seat, I now believe her hotwife activities have let her understand more of where I'm coming from, so she is relaxing with respect to other men.

Her inviting herself to Mr. S' cottage is probably nothing more than her usual self, hotwife or not. I know her and it's not alarming, but more of a mind set that if she continues and has a longer-term relationship with him, he needs to know that she expects to be invited someday. I told her to keep an open mind, that she shouldn't assume I would ever be open to her traveling all that way and for all that time without me, and as of now she should assume that'll never happen. But things change, and already some elements she used to say "never happen" have indeed happened, so we need be ready and willing to adapt as the circumstances and our mindsets change.

My point here is that she presently states she can't see doing any hotwife activities with me physically present, in the face of knowing in no uncetain terms that it's something I'd like. Never say never. I presently can't see her traveling to another continent with another man. Never say never. Perhaps if she wants to travel like that, to visit him, we'll have to be in a place within our relationship and with him, such that she and I travel to visit him. That'll end up being her challenge.

Again, it's ultimately the desire that has been sparked in her, that will drive her to find a way to make this work for her and for me. My desire has been here all along, has been more unleashed in recent years and months. Hers just starting to be unleashed. Presumably, the challenge now is for us to achieve a balance pace, where she may move ahead a bit from time to time, and then I catch up and perhaps move ahead of her, and vice versa. We will never be perfectly exactly in the same spot except perhaps for very short periods, but we will move along together within view of one another.

I literally used this example of when we did the run/walk around the lake over the Thanksgiving weekend. Her walking pace is faster than mine, but my running pace puts me ahead of her. So as we run/walk we move 10, 25, 50 yards apart but then switch to walk/run and it self-adjusts until we cross over and then move 10, 25, 50 yards apart. We then timed it to finish about the same time and walked back to the car together, side by side.