Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[Mark K]

God I wish I was SJ13 and had that path, a wife who apparently understands and truly wants to do this for her and for him.

I think any of us that have this HW interest wish we had a partner like SJ13 does. They def seem to be in it as a team.

[slenderfish]

Im wondering if you telling her that you have decided to end the entire LS because she is not "getting the concept" wouldnt be a great way to open up a conversation. Perhaps it would create a paradigm shift for her?

I am thinking more to the tune of not supporting her ongoing efforts with Mr. S. It seems to me that there are three major flaws in how things stand with him, as developed either inadvertently or by default, that really make him (and it) unworkable:

1) She initially pursued him under the guise of "what happens in Midwest State stays in Midwest State" and that her husband is okay with that, kind of "don't ask don't tell" etc. Therefore, it is assumed that husband doesn't know, and therefore hotwife is merely cheating and it has to remain a secret. She has expanded to say that she is "in an open relationship" but apparently will not communicate anything that has direct connection with me, despite my repeated requests, to at least start a path toward moving Mr. S to the knowledge of the hotwife situation. Example: "Please Mr. S let me know your dates of visit when you are able so that I may communicate with husband that I'll be out those nights with you."

2) She seems operate under to the notion that this relationship is essentially a boyfriend and she treats it as such by default; she seems to want it to be hers alone and any effort or request by me to be any part of it is met with resistance and reluctance, and I'm stuck in the position of being a monitor and compliance overseer.

3) She seems to expect me to leave town if he comes to visit, even though obviously he's not going to be at our home and for that matter he can stay at any hotel that he chooses or that she may recommend, either close by or far away. i'm not going to travel away merely to accommodate.

So I'll tell her that this relationship isn't working at all for me at this point, and that I've been trying to help it to not devolve to this, but she has essentially been tone deaf and hasn't really embraced what this is supposed to be. That this duck now quacks as a boyfriend and not a hotwife situation, despite my support and ongoing efforts to help her move it more to a hotwife relationship. That my withdrawing support means that I'll not pay for her travel or hotels or anything having to do with any visit where she sees him, and that if she wants to continue pursuing him as a boyfriend then it'll be his nickel for everything and we will have to do a major redefining of our marriage, that it will indeed either become an open marriage (which I never wanted and I believe she never wanted) or she will be a cheater and the marriage will suffer until it's corrected or it fails.

Or that she close down this declining relationship and take a break. If the "genie is out of the bottle" and she wants to continue with another FB it needs to begin as a proper vixen/stag hotwife format and play out in a manner that works for both of us. Also to stop the text deleting, to recognize it as an issue, etc. Even if it's a small deal to her, it's a big deal to me and she should be able to respect hand support that, as one element in trade for my supporting her relationship with him.

This is my present version of review and reset.

[Parsifal]

Im wondering if you telling her that you have decided to end the entire LS because she is not "getting the concept" wouldnt be a great way to open up a conversation. Perhaps it would create a paradigm shift for her?

I'll tell her that this relationship isn't working at all for me at this point, and that I've been trying to help it to not devolve to this, but she has essentially been tone deaf and hasn't really embraced what this is supposed to be. That this duck now quacks as a boyfriend and not a hotwife situation, despite my support and ongoing efforts to help her move it more to a hotwife relationship. That my withdrawing support means that I'll not pay for her travel or hotels or anything having to do with any visit where she sees him, and that if she wants to continue pursuing him as a boyfriend then it'll be his nickel for everything and we will have to do a major redefining of our marriage, that it will indeed either become an open marriage (which I never wanted and I believe she never wanted) or she will be a cheater and the marriage will suffer until it's corrected or it fails.

Or that she close down this declining relationship and take a break. If the "genie is out of the bottle" and she wants to continue with another FB it needs to begin as a proper vixen/stag hotwife format and play out in a manner that works for both of us. Also to stop the text deleting, to recognize it as an issue, etc. Even if it's a small deal to her, it's a big deal to me and she should be able to respect hand support that, as one element in trade for my supporting her relationship with him.

This is my present version of review and reset.

My wife seems a lot like yours. Occasional breaks have worked wonders for us. And sometimes breaks with no restart date and with the possibility of never restarting again.

What for me worked best for getting through the kind of crisis you're describing was her helping me realize that she really loves being and staying married to me (the "wife" part of hotwifing) and her realizing that even with the proverbial 'genie out of the bottle,' it only really works well for her if I'm totally on board and getting turned on rather than hurt by the "hot" part of her having open spaces in our marriage. However, if what Ms. P really wants is to add a separate life to her existence apart from your marriage, rather than add her outside experiences to the marriage to keep your connected with her, then a more fundamental restructuring of your relationship may need to be evaluated.

[XYAlpha]

Fish,
I read your soft "veto" of Mr. S with some respectful disagreement. The idea that you will simply not pay for it and if it continues it will be on his dime does not change what appears to be a "wife fucking others". Let us just take this option as you described into action. She continues to call / text with him and make arrangements (unknown to you). He comes to town on his own dime. She tells you he is in town on a Thursday and she will be back home probably Sunday night. You have the already established radio silence and then she comes home to you with nothing but a generic story that "we had sex". And then more calls and texts that you do not get to hear / see.

But it all happened in accordance with your "soft veto" and was "allowed" because you said so.

Certainly there is much to be desired in how this is going and I agree that this does not look like hotwifing in the generic definition. The fact that it is not working for you is the key point to communicate.

If she cannot find a way to make it work for her AND you with Mr. S then it should stop. The Same for her and Mr. X, Y, or Z...

IMO you are taking an unsustainable approach by trying to control the situation by closing the purse strings. Any HW can overcome that with her charms... and then you have accomplished nothing.

I think you simply make the point that if it cannot work for BOTH of you, then the man du jour is done.

This might inspire a great conversation of what the definitin of "works" is for both of you! Here you lay down the groundwork (rules / agreements) that you have been remiss in getting done. Conversation in the "light of day" and sober. Take written notes, go over them... make sure you both understand what was said and agreed to.

You will either work out the framework for how the two of you will proceed or discover that you two cannot agree on terms and the HW arrangement / privilege stops because you do not support it any longer.

XY

[BigHotMess]

Yep as to all of the seven responses above.

To reset and reevaluate. Gonna be patient and wait for the opportunity for a proper heart-to-heart discussion, over the next few days.

I'm not the only one who felt this was coming (e.g many of the commentators on this string), but in any case it's here and it's time.

God I wish I was SJ13 and had that path, a wife who apparently understands and truly wants to do this for her and for him.

But that applies to everything in life. Part of the fun is dealing with your own life. If there was a cheat code we’d all use it!

I tend to emphasize caution since the board tends to do the opposite. That’s OK and I understand why. My view is that there are some things in life you really don’t want to fuck around with - your family and your health.

You don’t run a marathon with one day of training.

[afagehi7]

Im wondering if you telling her that you have decided to end the entire LS because she is not "getting the concept" wouldnt be a great way to open up a conversation. Perhaps it would create a paradigm shift for her?

I am thinking more to the tune of not supporting her ongoing efforts with Mr. S. It seems to me that there are three major flaws in how things stand with him, as developed either inadvertently or by default, that really make him (and it) unworkable:

1) She initially pursued him under the guise of "what happens in Midwest State stays in Midwest State" and that her husband is okay with that, kind of "don't ask don't tell" etc. Therefore, it is assumed that husband doesn't know, and therefore hotwife is merely cheating and it has to remain a secret. She has expanded to say that she is "in an open relationship" but apparently will not communicate anything that has direct connection with me, despite my repeated requests, to at least start a path toward moving Mr. S to the knowledge of the hotwife situation. Example: "Please Mr. S let me know your dates of visit when you are able so that I may communicate with husband that I'll be out those nights with you."

2) She seems operate under to the notion that this relationship is essentially a boyfriend and she treats it as such by default; she seems to want it to be hers alone and any effort or request by me to be any part of it is met with resistance and reluctance, and I'm stuck in the position of being a monitor and compliance overseer.

3) She seems to expect me to leave town if he comes to visit, even though obviously he's not going to be at our home and for that matter he can stay at any hotel that he chooses or that she may recommend, either close by or far away. i'm not going to travel away merely to accommodate.

So I'll tell her that this relationship isn't working at all for me at this point, and that I've been trying to help it to not devolve to this, but she has essentially been tone deaf and hasn't really embraced what this is supposed to be. That this duck now quacks as a boyfriend and not a hotwife situation, despite my support and ongoing efforts to help her move it more to a hotwife relationship. That my withdrawing support means that I'll not pay for her travel or hotels or anything having to do with any visit where she sees him, and that if she wants to continue pursuing him as a boyfriend then it'll be his nickel for everything and we will have to do a major redefining of our marriage, that it will indeed either become an open marriage (which I never wanted and I believe she never wanted) or she will be a cheater and the marriage will suffer until it's corrected or it fails.

Or that she close down this declining relationship and take a break. If the "genie is out of the bottle" and she wants to continue with another FB it needs to begin as a proper vixen/stag hotwife format and play out in a manner that works for both of us. Also to stop the text deleting, to recognize it as an issue, etc. Even if it's a small deal to her, it's a big deal to me and she should be able to respect hand support that, as one element in trade for my supporting her relationship with him.

This is my present version of review and reset.

I believe it's time. I'm sure you'll run through it in your head but consider the tone you want to convey and word it appropriately. Do you want it to be soft shell or hard shell?

Also, construct an escape route so she can still salvage Mr. S with your support. I don't know how to do this but maybe the conversation gives her an epiphany and she agrees to get on track. Maybe you're just done with mr s and rightfully so but if there's a way she can salvage him and you would like that then an escape route could give her a way?

Are you going to go softball or hardball in your words and tone?

Like a child, she might just be pushing to know limits. Is this her normal mode of operation? My wife does this for non sex things. Pushes the limit until I put my foot down and draw a line then she gets mad but then we're cool.

Like XY said, closing the wallet isn't sufficient. If she continues you aren't paying for it AND then you are going to have an open marriage on both sides. If she agrees to that then reevaluate your marriage. There should be no question about this.

[BallSpanking]

You are on the money.

SW's default to a BF intimacy and secrecy was not the desired target, and you were clear about it throughout.
Your view is likely to deeply unsettle her, so be ready for a few days of unhappiness, unless she somehow quckly grasps your points.

Perhaps, before you lay down the law, you could make it clear to SW that her reading of this tryst as a BF/GF situation is not too likely, and she has allowed herself to become emotionally invested (when she was repeatedly warned of the risk in doing so). Moreover, I would bet Mr S's read on this is definitely a 'Booty Call' opportunity any time he's in the city. If SW started to make GF demands on Mr S, all she would see is a cloud of dust as he speeds away.

SW is not getting the HW dynamic. And this secrecy stuff, is a dealbreaker, I hope she can assimilate that.

[slenderfish]

Like XY said, closing the wallet isn't sufficient. If she continues you aren't paying for it AND then you are going to have an open marriage on both sides. If she agrees to that then reevaluate your marriage. There should be no question about this.

Yes, I think this is what I said above. I do recognize I was part of getting this genie out of the bottle, and assuming it won't go back in (or if she doesn't want it to go back in) then we have to get back on track with hotwifing the proper way. Probably the way Pinky started with Mr. S is not sustainable (though I actually believe he would be game for it) so there would need to be a transition to someone else. Otherwise, we are left with big waves in our marriage that may or may not be survivable.

It'll be soft but firm.

[slenderfish]

IMO you are taking an unsustainable approach by trying to control the situation by closing the purse strings. Any HW can overcome that with her charms... and then you have accomplished nothing.

I guess I wrote it backwards. I won't support it in any manner, and certainly not financially. My point is that he will have to pay for her to visit her family and friends in her home town, for her flights and hotels. And if he pays, then they will certainly see each other. If that's the case, then the marriage is in trouble, in that we are forced to deal with an open marriage (not what I want), a cuckold situation (not what I want), or nothing (not what I want).

I also know that he would never consider paying for these, and that Pinky knows it as well. He will evaporate.

I think you simply make the point that if it cannot work for BOTH of you, then the man du jour is done.

I agree more direct is better.

This might inspire a great conversation of what the definitin of "works" is for both of you! Here you lay down the groundwork (rules / agreements) that you have been remiss in getting done. Conversation in the "light of day" and sober. Take written notes, go over them... make sure you both understand what was said and agreed to.

You will either work out the framework for how the two of you will proceed or discover that you two cannot agree on terms and the HW arrangement / privilege stops because you do not support it any longer.

Yes, this is ultimately the point that needs to find its way into her deeper understanding, for her to embrace. To understand what Hotwifing is really supposed to be.

[slenderfish]

You are on the money.

SW is not getting the HW dynamic. And this secrecy stuff, is a dealbreaker, I hope she can assimilate that.

Yes, it's a big adjustment so I do understand that the first effort will almost certainly not work out. Especially since Pinky conceptualized and executed it her way, without any real understanding of what we're trying to accomplish.

[hwjen]

Maybe take the approach of explaining your support of her starting out "her way".
Its a lot for a woman to adjust to and you let her have the freedom to go about it in the way that worked for her.
But now ------------
Its about you both as a team.
Each of your needs must be met equally.
Its a game that takes two to play (plus the lucky guy that gets to fuck us hotwives).

Secrecy is poison.
Its deception plain and simple.
it also deprives the husband of sexual input and pleasure as texts, pics, video, phone calls, emails - all are amazing fun to experience. Your wife may not see it yet but as time passes, the historical log of those things is enormous fun in my experience.
(seeing a pic of yourself sucking another cock - years later is incredibly hot).

I'd advise a complete reboot.
Looking for local men from SLS, with you as the husband involved in every step as you negotiate what works for you both.

my 2 cents. Wishing you both the very best.

[slenderfish]

I'd advise a complete reboot.

my 2 cents. Wishing you both the very best.

Thanks, Jen. BTW love that name, the name of the mother of my children.

[MP15T]

Think your wife doesn’t understand a hotwife vs a wife who can cheat with men with her husband’s permission. She has never understood what you get out of it no prioritized understanding or giving you
Some part of it is her cheating and needing to keep it from you thus all the secrets. She may even have some experience before your fantasy was known to her

She values her friends. Ideally she would have a beautiful, fancy friend who was actually a hotwife and could role model the game for her. Ideally in reality- possibly virtually

Consider finding a hotwife couple that mirror you and try to befriend them with the goal of them getting to know each other. That wife could wingman your wife

Teach her she doesn’t need to sneak around and trickle truth you

[afagehi7]

Think your wife doesn’t understand a hotwife vs a wife who can cheat with men with her husband’s permission. She has never understood what you get out of it no prioritized understanding or giving you
Some part of it is her cheating and needing to keep it from you thus all the secrets. She may even have some experience before your fantasy was known to her

She values her friends. Ideally she would have a beautiful, fancy friend who was actually a hotwife and could role model the game for her. Ideally in reality- possibly virtually

Consider finding a hotwife couple that mirror you and try to befriend them with the goal of them getting to know each other. That wife could wingman your wife

Teach her she doesn’t need to sneak around and trickle truth you

Ideally she would enjoy telling fish about it.

[solstice]

Could it be that SW is so used to getting her own way in most aspects of her life that she ultimately believes you will cave in on your expectations, you may have to think of more than one way of persuading her to act differently, as well as the possibility of not paying her air fare and upmarket hotels

[slenderfish]

Could it be that SW is so used to getting her own way in most aspects of her life that she ultimately believes you will cave in on your expectations, you may have to think of more than one way of persuading her to act differently, as well as the possibility of not paying her air fare and upmarket hotels

All of this is very good feedback and will inform my approach to the reset. This is also part of a bigger picture of revising her approach to taking things for granted in general, including lifestyle, spending, etc.

Basically, I'm going to be reminding her that she has this wonderful life and supportive husband, but that she should want the husband to unquestioningly support the excessively generous lifestyle. We've had this conversation in the past; that she is in many ways my muse and it's a great motivator to me in so many aspects of my life. When I'm in my good headspace, I am extra productive and this generally results in extra financial gains which then funds these other elements.

But she is not holding up her part and this distraction and budding resentment is causing the opposite; I'm less productive and it's already starting to show itself in my not getting projects completed as quickly as I'd like, and probably not qualifying for certain financial bonuses, etc. along the way.

I've already let her know she needs to cut down on credit card spending, and have actually put a modest limit on one of the high-limit cards.

I would love for her to substitute hotwife therapy in place of retail therapy.

[Parsifal]

I would love for her to substitute hotwife therapy in place of retail therapy.

The man's need to spoil a woman like that can be a tragic flaw if the woman lacks perspective to see herself as spoiled and appropriately appreciate her husband's generosity. Narcissism on her part breaks the spell. His indulgence is no longer felt by him as a gesture of grand beneficence; now he feels himself a chump.

It's so nice to be the financial enabler of a high maintenance woman who's grateful enough to enable me in the special ways I need my own bread buttered.

[XYAlpha]

I would love for her to substitute hotwife therapy in place of retail therapy.

The man's need to spoil a woman like that can be a tragic flaw if the woman lacks perspective to see herself as spoiled and appropriately appreciate her husband's generosity. Narcissism on her part breaks the spell. His indulgence is no longer felt by him as a gesture of grand beneficence; now he feels himself a chump.

It's so nice to be the financial enabler of a high maintenance woman who's grateful enough to enable me in the special ways I need my own bread buttered.

Amazingly well stated!

XY

[afagehi7]

I would love for her to substitute hotwife therapy in place of retail therapy.

The man's need to spoil a woman like that can be a tragic flaw if the woman lacks perspective to see herself as spoiled and appropriately appreciate her husband's generosity. Narcissism on her part breaks the spell. His indulgence is no longer felt by him as a gesture of grand beneficence; now he feels himself a chump.

It's so nice to be the financial enabler of a high maintenance woman who's grateful enough to enable me in the special ways I need my own bread buttered.

Amazingly well stated!

XY

At some point oftentimes they cease to appreciate and it becomes expectation. Men are the same as both sexes eventually take their partner for granted

[slenderfish]

XY

At some point oftentimes they cease to appreciate and it becomes expectation. Men are the same as both sexes eventually take their partner for granted

I offered this renewal of intrigue in the relationship, added "mystery" as some of the benefits to inure to both of us with jumping into the hotwife pool. She loved that part of it, the possibilities of it, and we have certainly experienced many of these.

But the recent withholding and reluctance has taken the shine off, at least at this juncture.

[afagehi7]

When will you have the discussion?

It's not a race, do it right because you only get one first shot.

[slenderfish]

Text just arrived from Mr. S and Pinky shared right away.

She also offered without any prompting that there have been no texts from him since New Year's Day, the one she shared with me also same day.

"Hope that you're staying safe!

Missing you, beautiful."

'Gonna take all this into consideration before I get too far ahead of myself.

[BallSpanking]

Good thing is, SF, you are aware of yourself, and know when to self-moderate.

[afagehi7]

Text just arrived from Mr. S and Pinky shared right away.

She also offered without any prompting that there have been no texts from him since New Year's Day, the one she shared with me also same day.

"Hope that you're staying safe!

Missing you, beautiful."

'Gonna take all this into consideration before I get too far ahead of myself.

Slow and steady wins the race

[solstice]

Slenderfish writes: 'Gonna take all this into consideration before I get too far ahead of myself.

Yes once said, not easy to take back, she seems to be making an effort to keep you a bit more informed.