Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[slenderfish]

HisKelly wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:50 pm
What ever you're doin slender,,,, it ain't work'n.
How about you change the rules. To No rules. NO pics, videos, text messages, discussions of possible partners, nothing. Just reinforce to her that she has a hall pass to fuck whom she wants, when she wants, where she wants. No questions asked.
Then after some time, start to bring it up in the heat of passion. Work your way into the Hotwife LS that way.
He has done this almost exactly. She's had her time now it's time to share with her husband. He's not a cuck.
When has he really done this/ I'm not talking about 1 or 2 times. I'm saying give her 4, 5, 6 months of playing totally on her own. Let her get comfortable fucking other men or women. Then start by basking the simple questions. "How's the extra sex goin"? "You getting satisfied"? Keep it lite in the beginning.

This is not out of the question. I'm more of a reality guy; listen to what someone says but pay greater attention to what they do. Seems this may be what SW wants and perhaps is pursuing at some level. I have to decide if I can find satisfaction in it, if indeed this is her path.

[slenderfish]

This comes down to what SF wants out of his marriage.

Yep

Remember how this whole thing started. Do any of us believe that SW didn't fuck Mr. B? Where's that hot talk now, 8 months down the road? Eight months does not seem to have enlightened her regarding trusting her husband enough to tell him the truth. Remember, he CAUGHT her. If he hadn't stumbled upon that security tape, wouldn't Mr.B still be coming around when SF is out of town?

I just went back and had a look at the clips from the security tape, the ones I put together to show OHW friends for their impressions. It's been quite some time since Aug and so much has transpired. Amazing. I still get aroused looking at that video.

And given the way SW has kept her distance in situations when Mr.B was at a party, doesn't that suggest that he is still coming around when SF is on ski trips or out of town?

Now, that's a good question. I don't see it but nothing is out of the realm of possibility. I always figured the energy between those two would ultimately be telling enough to make a final conclusion. Seems we are at that point.

From my perspective, no matter what SF does, his wife isn't going to allow his participation. He needs to determine what he wants and how to either negotiate it or move on.

Negotiate. I'm presently gathering information for the negotiation. I'm crazy about her and will go to monogamish if that's where it's headed. But she has to get a feeling for that, in advance, from my side. I won't agree to one-sided monogamish. I don't think she would expect me to agree to it. I'm presently demonstrating that I have no problems attracting a woman and that she will need to deal with jealousy, insecurities, etc. if that's where she wants this to go.

Their marriage is fundamentally flawed in that he doesn't trust her, she doesn't trust him, and neither has the courage to come right out and say what they're thinking. For instance, why doesn't SW trust her husband to tell him the truth about Mr. B? Why does she feel the need to hide and act deceitfully? Why can't he come right out and call her on her lies and set boundaries? Why do SF's boundaries change seemingly every day? Where is the foundation of trust?

We do have a foundation of trust and it's the basic stuff that keeps a marriage together; mutual attraction, common interests, love of family (among and across our families), lifestyle, friends, etc. We both assume and know that at the end of each day, our feet take us back to each other. It's been proven now for almost 12 years of marriage and 20 years of knowing each other/dating/etc. She's still the one I fell for and vice versa. She waited around for me for five years after I first broke up with her in 2002, after we had been seeing each other for about 18 months. Apparently we both were stuck on each other during that off period.

But I of course aspire to a much deeper level of trust. Kind of sad that it's so difficult, but at the same time, we are who we are and if it's possible to go deeper, then we will. If not, then at least we are trying.

This does at some point go over to issues we have within ourselves, which keep her and/or me from getting to that deeper level.

[Freemans892]

SW comes across as being very traditional which is probably a result of her hometown upbringing. It seems some Hotwives are more comfortable with a secret affair type relationships, not to replace the husband but to have a bit extra on the side and bring home a high libido to the husband. Probably because of her affair previously with Mr. M, she finds very hard to get out of this affair style mindset and adopt the open communication mindset. As a result, when SW did her own research in open marriages / relationships, SW must comfortable with the monogamish style setup.

[anonymister1948]

We do have a foundation of trust and it's the basic stuff that keeps a marriage together; mutual attraction, common interests, love of family (among and across our families), lifestyle, friends, etc.

Not to be inflammatory, but from your writings here, neither of you have demonstrated this trust. She lied (and probably continues to lie) about Mr. B. You went through her dirty clothes to look at her panties. Nothing about those two things scream, "I trust you." She doesn't trust you to see her texts. You don't trust her to tell you the truth. That is what I mean by a foundation of trust. It's not "I trust you to pay the bills and love me and my family," or, "I trust you to be here when I come home." I honestly hope this journey you are on will bring a level of trust where you both can be your true honest selves.

[afagehi7]

We do have a foundation of trust and it's the basic stuff that keeps a marriage together; mutual attraction, common interests, love of family (among and across our families), lifestyle, friends, etc.

Not to be inflammatory, but from your writings here, neither of you have demonstrated this trust. She lied (and probably continues to lie) about Mr. B. You went through her dirty clothes to look at her panties. Nothing about those two things scream, "I trust you." She doesn't trust you to see her texts. You don't trust her to tell you the truth. That is what I mean by a foundation of trust. It's not "I trust you to pay the bills and love me and my family," or, "I trust you to be here when I come home." I honestly hope this journey you are on will bring a level of trust where you both can be your true honest selves.

I have to give fish credit. He's got a longer and more successful marriage than most. Whatever he's doing has worked for 20+ years. He's probably got a more solid marriage than most of us.

[slenderfish]

I feel the level of trust that you talk about is one-sided. No one knows her reasons but she doesn't trust you with what she's doing.

No question there is a big dose of this in our marriage. This is not new, as you might surmise.

[superb101]

Curious if you caught a glimpse of what she wore to her work out yesterday

[Parsifal]

I feel the level of trust that you talk about is one-sided. No one knows her reasons but she doesn't trust you with what she's doing.

No question there is a big dose of this in our marriage. This is not new, as you might surmise.

My take on it is that she's straddling two identities, and even though you're the one who's opened the door for her to cross over to embrace her nonmonogamous impulses and fantasies, it feels safer for her to leave you in the world her new self is evolving beyond. The goal is to break the compartments and help her merge her selves into a mostly integrated whole. It's a process and takes time and lots of encouragement, and sometimes you need to set up games with a structure that encourages communication. The easier it is for her to move back and forth within herself and take you with her to both places of her being, the more she'll feel her encounters to be happening within her marriage to you and somewhere you aren't.

[toshare]

So let me guess. She wore a really sexy outfit to the gym. She came home late. Undressed as soon as she got home, thru her clothes into the washer, jumped into the shower before you could kiss her and taste for cum or finger her pussy to feel for sloopy after sex wetness. And she'll continue to deny, deny, deny. She gets what she wants and you get the shaft. You've said you could probably get anybody you want. You might as well go have your own fun. Your posting here has not brought you the advise you say you want, and it certainly has not helped any of us looking for the right info to get us on and keep us on the path to the LS we want.
Your relationship with SW has neither the open communications or honesty needed for this LS. You nave been told this over and over again and again by those who have been in the LS many years.
For those reading this thread looking for some insight, stop now. The name of this thread should be "How Not To Do It". by Slenderfish.

I totaly agree. My hotwife and I have had nothing but more openness,trust and more closeness with her dating life

[Whosbeensleeping]

If we all had the same journey, life would be pretty boring.

[2inUPMichigan]

I have been hesitant to give my input because frankly I'm not sure how receptive the two of you will be.

What I have noticed is that both of you seem to protect yourself from the other. Maybe there is something that happened in the past that the two of you don't want to repeat? Or an ultimatum has been issued at some point? There is something hanging between the two of you separating you from completely trusting each other. (And yes it is both of you that are displaying this behavior)

Ask yourself, why do you feel uncomfortable being vulnerable with your wife? Why don't you trust her to take care of your heart? Why don't you trust her to always put your relationship first?
Now how do you think she would answer those same questions about you?

The conflict here isn't hotwifing, it is that the two of you don't trust either each other or yourselves enough to be vulnerable, open and honest without that layer of protection around you.

You may not agree with my thoughts and that is okay. I'm hopeful that this sparks a conversation between the two of you and builds a bridge.

[eb4cplslooking]

You know your wife, so do it your way and see how it goes. Not everyone is going to follow the same path. Maybe that's a good thing.

[slenderfish]

I have been hesitant to give my input because frankly I'm not sure how receptive the two of you will be.

What I have noticed is that both of you seem to protect yourself from the other. Maybe there is something that happened in the past that the two of you don't want to repeat? Or an ultimatum has been issued at some point? There is something hanging between the two of you separating you from completely trusting each other. (And yes it is both of you that are displaying this behavior)

Ask yourself, why do you feel uncomfortable being vulnerable with your wife? Why don't you trust her to take care of your heart? Why don't you trust her to always put your relationship first?
Now how do you think she would answer those same questions about you?

The conflict here isn't hotwifing, it is that the two of you don't trust either each other or yourselves enough to be vulnerable, open and honest without that layer of protection around you.

You may not agree with my thoughts and that is okay. I'm hopeful that this sparks a conversation between the two of you and builds a bridge.

Very insightful. You hit it square between the eyes.

[slenderfish]

If we all had the same journey, life would be pretty boring.

???Please explain.

SW and I are on our journey. We are enjoying it in our own way. I'm sharing here because it seems like the place to do so.

I do value the input that other readers and writers contribute.

Including you!

[slenderfish]

I totaly agree. My hotwife and I have had nothing but more openness,trust and more closeness with her dating life

Was hoping to get to this place with SW. I have not given up hope on this point.

[slenderfish]

My take on it is that she's straddling two identities, and even though you're the one who's opened the door for her to cross over to embrace her nonmonogamous impulses and fantasies, it feels safer for her to leave you in the world her new self is evolving beyond. The goal is to break the compartments and help her merge her selves into a mostly integrated whole. It's a process and takes time and lots of encouragement, and sometimes you need to set up games with a structure that encourages communication. The easier it is for her to move back and forth within herself and take you with her to both places of her being, the more she'll feel her encounters to be happening within her marriage to you and somewhere you aren't.

Yes, she's still in transition from her good old-fashioned Midwest values and image of herself.

She has to retain it and at the same time distance herself from it.

[slenderfish]

Curious if you caught a glimpse of what she wore to her work out yesterday

I saw her on the way out and it was unremarkable.

[anonymister1948]

If you are in agreement with 2inUp I believe you've got your proverbial tit in the ringer.
Unless you two can get your poop in a group, you'll just end up with SW getting it from who. when and where she wants. With you getting zilch in return.
Cats outa the bag now. Getting her to stop cheating probably isn't going to happen.
GOOD LUCK.

I'm giving up. Slender has been given all kinds of good advice, much of it exactly the same, and yet he hasn't followed through. Besides, the rules (2.4) of this forum prohibit continuing the same suggestions in a brow-beating fashion. Perhaps SF is here for the attaboys and you-go-man comments. If that's the case, attaboy! You go, man!

[slenderfish]

So let me guess. She wore a really sexy outfit to the gym. She came home late. Undressed as soon as she got home, thru her clothes into the washer, jumped into the shower before you could kiss her and taste for cum or finger her pussy to feel for sloopy after sex wetness. And she'll continue to deny, deny, deny. She gets what she wants and you get the shaft. You've said you could probably get anybody you want. You might as well go have your own fun. Your posting here has not brought you the advise you say you want, and it certainly has not helped any of us looking for the right info to get us on and keep us on the path to the LS we want.
Your relationship with SW has neither the open communications or honesty needed for this LS. You nave been told this over and over again and again by those who have been in the LS many years.
For those reading this thread looking for some insight, stop now. The name of this thread should be "How Not To Do It". by Slenderfish.

Nope, she wore a plain outfit and was not all made up or anything. She came home after and was a bit down, because he cancelled her Friday workout going out of town with his wife. She is disappointed because after not really working out while traveling out of town last week, she was looking forward to getting back into it with gusto.

No, I didn't look at her soiled clothes. No, she didn't race to the washing machine. Just normal process.

I'm checking myself regarding my hotwife/husband hopes and imaginings, vs. the reality of her and what she's doing. I'll compose a more thorough posting on this subject within the next day or two. Kind of a post that brings myself and everyone up to speed on where I believe we sit, after her return and the conversations about hotwifing that have ensued over the past few days.

[solstice]

It would seem recently as if some contributors are trying to write the story of your relationship with your wife, as if it were a work of fiction, some write as if you and SW are both not communicating: The way I see it you have given your wife a free run, and what you look for in return is to be kept informed of those meetup she has. you try different ways to facilitate her, but are mostly kept in the dark: When she looks for advice, you provide it in a creative way. Until she realises you are working to her advantage, things may not progress as you would like, there has been one or two chinks of light, and then you are back to square one.

[Parsifal]

My wife likes to play in isolation too. She's a private person by nature. So what we've done to compromise is to set up a game where she's allowed to have an affair. But the game has an ending point at which time she tells all, usually from a diary she's kept for the occasion, which we ceremonialize at a swank resort where weed is legal. Embrace her need for secrecy but conditioned on a tell-all to consummate the game with you.

[Nycadmanx]

Have just finished reading this entire thread. To me, what's going on is simple. She is a wife who now enjoys having relationships with and fucking other men. She is not a hotwife and she does not seem to care about your pleasure in this scenario. She hides most everything of importance from you, refuses to allow you to watch her be taken by other men, nor share photos, details of the time spent together, etc. She is doing this for her own pleasure now, and hers alone.

I don't see the "hotwife" dynamic between you two having grown at all over the months, and I certainly don't see this as having strengthened your relationship together. You are simply now married to a woman who enjoys being with other men and will not stop doing so.

My largest question is, what is missing in your relationship that she feels she's getting by being with these men?

Ultimately, this will not end well.

[Freemans892]

The above maybe correct in regards to cheating but it does assume that all parties have been cheating on their partners of late. The key local guy currently in SW target is Mr. G and his wife is not a big fan of SW this would be keeping an eye on the two. Mr. G and wife own the fitness studio together thus it is far harder to cheat if your wife is around on a regular basis. Mr. G has significantly more to lose than SF and SW if he cheats, his business and financial income. I don’t know about area that SF and SW live in but in my area gyms and fitness centres were forced to shutdown for almost six months due to COVID-19 (local cases are now almost none existent in my area). Most of these gyms are now in recover mode along with Mr. G relative young studio and last thing he would want is a scandal that would force himself in bankruptcy. Mr. G is probably following what many advised on OHW, you dip your pen in the company ink well, i.e. you don’t fuck your clients. Trust me, as an owner of a young business, you more concerned about increasing your revenue than you next fuck, any dip in revenue could result in bankruptcy.

I also don’t think that SW was anywhere near as successful as she wished it to be. Both Mr. S and Mr. M both have young relationship and it now seems to relegated SW to the platonic friends zone.

I pretty sure that SW will not be doing any hanky-panky at home without informing SF after the Mr. B pole dance evening, which SF was let go because it put SW on the road to hotwifing.

The key challenge has been for SW is that she targets desirable man, for her potential hotwifing activities, that tend to end with their own main relationship.

I am not sure where these other posters are getting their evidence from but I think there are some holes in their theory.

[BigHotMess]

I think that you need to consider that you may have some self-destructive tendencies. We all do, nothing to be ashamed of. It might be worth consideration and reflection.

[slenderfish]

I am not sure where these other posters are getting their evidence from but I think there are some holes in their theory.

You have it exactly on the mark.

Since SW's return from her last trip on Monday, I initially waited a few days to see if she had any "surprise" for me but none materialized.

I did pay attention to her actions and behavior, etc. for clues. Also when she went off to see Mr. G for her Wednesday workout. I did not take the time or jump into her privacy by examining her dirty clothes or anything like that. No signs of anything.

We have been talking on this board about trust between SW and me, and I figure I owe it to her to be patient and trust that she will update me. She did not rush to get her clothes into the wash, etc. She also did not on Wednesday, upon her return from workout with Mr. G.

I'd also been very consumed with some business projects and those kept me occupied and allowed me to not press her.

On Thursday after I came up for air in the afternoon, she did take time and we sat down, relaxed and she told me the following:

- Mr. S is now clearly and cleanly in the friend zone.

- She did go out with him and his friend Mr. I in order to do the intro to Ms. A but (in retrospect) thankfully Ms. A cancelled.

- She spoke on the phone a couple of times with Mr. M but he is in a terrible place and is really angry at "women" at this point, from his recent divorce.

She said there was no real opportunity to pursue anyone new there. She did sit at the hotel bar a couple of times when she was alone at night, met one interesting couple (but not interesting from a hotwife standpoint), etc.

Said that she is apparently in an "off cycle" right now and that nothing is out of the question in the future, but that I need not wait like a puppy dog in anticipation of a treat that will not be materializing.

I figure the best approach at this point is to focus on the two of us, kind of "reclaiming" the relationship as a bigger concept. We had a date day and night last night and enjoyed each others' company. Old-school sex. Very satisfying.

Leading up to the next outing which is the upcoming St. Patrick's day party on Saturday.

Mr. E (hosting the party) called me from a costume store and said he's going big, and encouraged us to do the same. He said that he will reserve the premium guest room for SW and me for overnight stay on Saturday, so that we don't have to worry about driving.

I will do a post-mortem analysis on SW and Mr. S later today, or tomorrow. It'll be interesting and will expand the picture and understanding of Pinky. Some elements may hold surprises.