Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[slenderfish]

Night before last, we finally had the conversation about the night she sent the lingerie pics. I asked her if she had anything else to tell me about the night, that I'd been waiting for her to come clean. That I was feeling a lot like I did in the time immediately following my return from the trip with my adult kids, in August 2020, when she had invited Mr. B over and he stayed the night.

She immediately went into a defensive mode and started to ask questions instead of telling me the events of that night. I stopped her and said that this was even more "triggering" (a word she likes to use) for me, in that she did the same thing when I'd asked about the night with Mr. B. (e.g. "trickle'-truth" as has been referenced on this board).

She slowly told me the events and that nothing happened, that she had not sent any image to the guy she met at the restaurant/bar, and that she was merely being a wing-woman for her new girlfriend (whom I have never met). That since that night, she has not heard or spoken with the guy or his buddy.

She said that she was at the place with Ms. R (tall blonde long-legged former model with whom she was in Hawaii last week) and Ms. new Friend, and that at one point these friends pointed out a tall and handsome man (let's call him Mr. J.) over at the bar. SW volunteered, as she does, to "go get him" for Ms. New. At some point, Ms. R went home (she's an early retirer). Ms. New also moved to the bar and in the meantime, Mr. J called his buddy Mr. A to join them. Although SW was initially trying to pair up Ms. New with Mr. J,, when Mr. A arrived Ms. New started talking with him and ended up liking him more, and making out with him there at the bar. She said there was nothing else, that at some point the place closed and she went home.

I asked if there is anything else, because it'll all come out eventually and the more she holds back, the more destructive it'll be.

I also reminded her of the exact same issue I had back with Mr. B, that her efforts to keep it all secret (from me?) in the face of my encouragement of her meeting a new guy (or guys) is really a poke in my eye with a hot metal stick. Does she do this just to spite me? What's behind this irrational approach?

And that she apparently still, after all this time, doesn't get the point behind my dismay with the Mr. B situation from Aug 2020. I don't care about him being over or staying the night, or whatever did or did not happen,. I care about her efforts at hiding, at deceit. But she can't (or won't) see it.

We agreed to discuss with the therapist in our next session. Unfortunately, the therapist is out of town this week so this will have to carry into next week.

She keeps harping on that "nothing happened."

I told her that I'm happy she goes out and has fun with her girlfriends and that I would be more than happy if "something" DID happen, but that her insistence on keeping these things secret and then denial, obfuscation, trickle truth, etc. doesn't make any sense and it is now a problem with trust and my confidence in her consideration for me and our marriage.

We are not fighting or anything and going on with our marriage and life as normal, just have agreed to deal with this disconnect.

She has her normal workout with Mr. G today at 12:15.

[BallSpanking]

I might get in hot water for saying this, but it seems SW goes into hypersensitive mode any time her sexual forays and interests arise. Maybe if you dropped the subject altogether, she wouldn't feel pressured and would take the initiative to start sharing her state of mind.

[veub]

I don't recall reading this but what are your ages and how long have you been together?

[slenderfish]

I don't recall reading this but what are your ages and how long have you been together?

I'll leave the ages unanswered but I met her in 2001 and we dated for just under two years (long distance) and were apart for about four years. Began dating again and then got married, now almost 13 years (in April).

[afagehi7]

I don't recall reading this but what are your ages and how long have you been together?

I'll leave the ages unanswered but I met her in 2001 and we dated for just under two years (long distance) and were apart for about four years. Began dating again and then got married, now almost 13 years (in April).

Odd she got so defensive. Maybe there's nothing to it but after Mr B and her withholding of information she can't blame you for asking.

As long as you are abundantly clear that trickle truth and withholding from you is not acceptable, I'd let it go. The truth eventually comes out but if she's playing games then there's larger issues.

You would have loved it if she had sent pics to him or donked Mr B so why hide.

In summation, your point is abundantly clear so see if anything changes moving forward.

[slenderfish]

I might get in hot water for saying this, but it seems SW goes into hypersensitive mode any time her sexual forays and interests arise. Maybe if you dropped the subject altogether, she wouldn't feel pressured and would take the initiative to start sharing her state of mind.

You always provide the most obvious observations that are right in front of me. At the same time, I've tested out the theory of not saying anything or doing anything.

It seems to result in not anything.

Perhaps I need to do nothing for longer?

I do want her to know that I continue to pine for her to get active again but without putting pressure. It's a delicate balance with SW. Clearly I haven't yet found the balance.

[slenderfish]

I don't recall reading this but what are your ages and how long have you been together?

I'll leave the ages unanswered but I met her in 2001 and we dated for just under two years (long distance) and were apart for about four years. Began dating again and then got married, now almost 13 years (in April).

Odd she got so defensive. Maybe there's nothing to it but after Mr B and her withholding of information she can't blame you for asking.

As long as you are abundantly clear that trickle truth and withholding from you is not acceptable, I'd let it go. The truth eventually comes out but if she's playing games then there's larger issues.

You would have loved it if she had sent pics to him or donked Mr B so why hide.

In summation, your point is abundantly clear so see if anything changes moving forward.

Doesn't make sense, but SW doesn't really give much thought to logic or sense; she is insouciant.

In any case, we are in this new dynamic with the sex-positive therapist and I believe that'll be a catalyst for more frank discussions and, presumably, movement in the way of compromise. I suppose I'm pre-gaming these expected conversations and staking my starting point.

[BallSpanking]

You always provide the most obvious observations that are right in front of me. At the same time, I've tested out the theory of not saying anything or doing anything.
It seems to result in not anything. Perhaps I need to do nothing for longer?

I do want her to know that I continue to pine for her to get active again but without putting pressure. It's a delicate balance with SW. Clearly I haven't yet found the balance.

I 'm not trying to be obvious, it's just she seems to go into resistance mode whenever you bring it up. But frankly, you know her best. If it results in zero proactive action, then there's no point. Perhaps the couples therapy will shed some light on her resistance.

I was just wondering if recapturing a playful, relaxed atmosphere might get her to loosen up her sexuality. I think it is certainly there, and it comes out with a bit of alcohol.

[afagehi7]

I'll be interested to hear why she's so resistant and secretive. Perhaps it stems from a jealous boyfriend in her youth, over invasive parents, or just plain narcissism (maybe not the best word I'm looking for but conveys the point).

I understand some secrecy and personal space in a marriage, but not when it comes to extracurricular sexual activities unless agreed upon. I wouldn't agree and I don't think fish would either.

Hopefully the reasons come out and the behavior can be corrected. She's sitting on a gold mine, certainly a high value man whom many women would fancy, a kept upscale lifestyle, and the ability to get alpha Chad big cocked fuck machines to pound her into orgasmic submission. Not really a better deal out there.

[4expcouple]

I asked if there is anything else, because it'll all come out eventually and the more she holds back, the more destructive it'll be.

I also reminded her of the exact same issue I had back with Mr. B, that her efforts to keep it all secret (from me?) in the face of my encouragement of her meeting a new guy (or guys) is really a poke in my eye with a hot metal stick. Does she do this just to spite me? What's behind this irrational approach?

Your wording, leaves feelings of consequence... The "MORE destructive" sounds like it's already destructive and might become even more destructive...

Alternatively, you could just take a position of support and caring. A couple of things I've seen with my wife is that she wants to hold a little back for herself so she doesn't feel like an outlet for my sexual fantasy. Also there is always that little kernel of fear that this isn't right and at some point I might turn it all around and make this a her fault thing. You have to work hard to make sure she feels good about her choices or she will never share for fear of repercussions. Just my .02

[slenderfish]

I asked if there is anything else, because it'll all come out eventually and the more she holds back, the more destructive it'll be.

I also reminded her of the exact same issue I had back with Mr. B, that her efforts to keep it all secret (from me?) in the face of my encouragement of her meeting a new guy (or guys) is really a poke in my eye with a hot metal stick. Does she do this just to spite me? What's behind this irrational approach?

Your wording, leaves feelings of consequence... The "MORE destructive" sounds like it's already destructive and might become even more destructive...

Alternatively, you could just take a position of support and caring. A couple of things I've seen with my wife is that she wants to hold a little back for herself so she doesn't feel like an outlet for my sexual fantasy. Also there is always that little kernel of fear that this isn't right and at some point I might turn it all around and make this a her fault thing. You have to work hard to make sure she feels good about her choices or she will never share for fear of repercussions. Just my .02

I think I'm subconsciously pushing toward a conversation with the therapist that will be a rebalancing of our hotwife situation. These days, SW seems to be more against ever even considering it. She has moved this direction during the period when I was very silent and supportive, caring, etc.

The last time she decided to go ahead and pursue a man (or men) was after I called her on deceit with respect to Mr. B in Aug 2020. That if she wants to have attention of another man, it must be for both her and me, and in any case not in secret. So she agreed to try it with my full awareness and support and achieved good results, through the end of 2020. She had NRE and was talking about the next encounter, perhaps him traveling to her, etc. Also perhaps her going on vacation with him later in the year, etc.

He didn't dote on her the way she expected, and didn't pursue the agreed visit to her that was targeted for Feb 2021.

So she is now negative on the whole experience, and won't even acknowledge (to me) that she enjoyed any of it.

But she was asked by our sex-positive therapist about it, and did reluctantly admit there were elements she did enjoy.

Not sure why and how this morphed, but I do know that my being mostly silent over the last 12 months has not shown any benefit.

We'll just see how this plays out. I'm keeping mostly mum about hotwifing, but am certainly reminding her that if she moves into any kind of dalliance with another man, I'm fully supportive and recognize she will want some time to herself to engage, etc. but at some point (say, four weeks?) she should communicate, because I'm sensitive to the time with Mr. B where she was really trying to hide it, even to the point of not realizing she was recruiting her (our) friends in her cover stories.

The only real issue that appears to remain with respect to Mr. B (and which may have repeated a few weeks ago with Mr. J) is that she says her intention is all that counts, and that her intention with Mr. B (and with Mr. J) did not include anything sexual. She does not (refuses to?) acknowledge that my only real issue is the deceit and the efforts to keep me in the dark. Let's remember that she actually planned, and hid this plan, to have a friend of ours who was/is clearly interested in a sexual relationship with her, join her at our house under the cover of a girls' night while I was out of town. She planned to, and did, have him stay and drink wine, listen to music, dance until extra late, and stay the night (in our bedroom/bed?) after the three girls went home. She maintains that none of this matters.

[veub]

This is going to sound like I am attacking you, but I am not. This is a serious question.
Whether she has had affairs with other men, or not, have you ever thought that she just doesn't want to be jerk-off material for you? I have seen a ton of posts on here that call the wife "my personal porn star." Many, many women would find that to be completely degrading no matter how they felt about extra-marital sex.

[afagehi7]

I asked if there is anything else, because it'll all come out eventually and the more she holds back, the more destructive it'll be.

I also reminded her of the exact same issue I had back with Mr. B, that her efforts to keep it all secret (from me?) in the face of my encouragement of her meeting a new guy (or guys) is really a poke in my eye with a hot metal stick. Does she do this just to spite me? What's behind this irrational approach?

Your wording, leaves feelings of consequence... The "MORE destructive" sounds like it's already destructive and might become even more destructive...

Alternatively, you could just take a position of support and caring. A couple of things I've seen with my wife is that she wants to hold a little back for herself so she doesn't feel like an outlet for my sexual fantasy. Also there is always that little kernel of fear that this isn't right and at some point I might turn it all around and make this a her fault thing. You have to work hard to make sure she feels good about her choices or she will never share for fear of repercussions. Just my .02

I think I'm subconsciously pushing toward a conversation with the therapist that will be a rebalancing of our hotwife situation. These days, SW seems to be more against ever even considering it. She has moved this direction during the period when I was very silent and supportive, caring, etc.

The last time she decided to go ahead and pursue a man (or men) was after I called her on deceit with respect to Mr. B in Aug 2020. That if she wants to have attention of another man, it must be for both her and me, and in any case not in secret. So she agreed to try it with my full awareness and support and achieved good results, through the end of 2020. She had NRE and was talking about the next encounter, perhaps him traveling to her, etc. Also perhaps her going on vacation with him later in the year, etc.

He didn't dote on her the way she expected, and didn't pursue the agreed visit to her that was targeted for Feb 2021.

So she is now negative on the whole experience, and won't even acknowledge (to me) that she enjoyed any of it.

But she was asked by our sex-positive therapist about it, and did reluctantly admit there were elements she did enjoy.

Not sure why and how this morphed, but I do know that my being mostly silent over the last 12 months has not shown any benefit.

We'll just see how this plays out. I'm keeping mostly mum about hotwifing, but am certainly reminding her that if she moves into any kind of dalliance with another man, I'm fully supportive and recognize she will want some time to herself to engage, etc. but at some point (say, four weeks?) she should communicate, because I'm sensitive to the time with Mr. B where she was really trying to hide it, even to the point of not realizing she was recruiting her (our) friends in her cover stories.

The only real issue that appears to remain with respect to Mr. B (and which may have repeated a few weeks ago with Mr. J) is that she says her intention is all that counts, and that her intention with Mr. B (and with Mr. J) did not include anything sexual. She does not (refuses to?) acknowledge that my only real issue is the deceit and the efforts to keep me in the dark. Let's remember that she actually planned, and hid this plan, to have a friend of ours who was/is clearly interested in a sexual relationship with her, join her at our house under the cover of a girls' night while I was out of town. She planned to, and did, have him stay and drink wine, listen to music, dance until extra late, and stay the night (in our bedroom/bed?) after the three girls went home. She maintains that none of this matters.

Would it matter if roles were reversed?

She must have enjoyed something during her adventures since she had premeditated anal... If it's not for her then at least she tried and is willing to role play a bit... I'll give her credit for that. Mine wouldn't try nor role play it...if she'd talk dirty about other guys I'd be thrilled

[BallSpanking]

When SW had set her sights on Mr S, I had the impression all along that HE was the only candidate she would consider,
and there were no others that interested her. It was clear SW was the driving force behind their meetings and hookups, not Mr B.

The stated reason was her attraction to his physical attributes, his height, etc. Still, it was SW who was pushing to hook up.
Let's be honest here, how many men would turn down a roll with Mrs SW? Nope. That would be idiocy.

It is not the same thing, however, as contracting a medium/long term obligation to satisfy a high maintenance HW.
In fact, that is barely recognizable as the same deal.

So it is not surprising she was disappointed with his follow through. He didn't have any, because he didn't have the impetus to begin with. The man, Bull, stud, lover, or whatever you want to call him (the one with a cock) has to pursue the woman. A HotWife needs to feel wanted. She needs to know her lover's hardness is result of her womanhood. Otherwise the whole thing goes limp (graphic pun intended).

But then, if SW has no interest in motivated candidates unless they possess unobtainable qualifications, there seems little way to proceed. Is that, maybe, what she wants?

[8toplaywith]

Regarding the title of this thread:
"Her Plan" should be replaced with "My Wish".
I don't think she has a plan.

[BallSpanking]

I thought Veub offered an interesting, valid perspective.
Most threads are posted and maintained by husbands. HW's do contribute, some quite freely, but most threads represent the husband's perspective.
Does a woman, indeed does anyone, want to be told how and with whom to have sexual intercourse?
And the question of 'for whose benefit' becomes germane.

As husbands we like to think our generosity serves to further our beautiful wife's experience and enjoyment, allowing them the extraordinary freedom/benefit that is being a HotWife.

The obverse side of the coin, is a wife who feels pressured to channel her sexuality in a given direction, presumably for her benefit, and that comes with a whole set of expectations thereafter. She might well feel put upon and objectified. She also may understandably not like or feel obligated to report on her sexuality at all. She may feel rejected by her husband's suggestion that she fuck someone else, and not ever admit it.

Even when agreed to by both parties from the outset, the practice is different from the ideal.

[Triggershy]

Any chance you can meet Mr. B at the bar one night and ask him as a friend what happened that night? I know it’s not your style but just see how many of his stories match up with hers and then you can piece a little more. I know your in business with him or were but I would be dying to hear his side of the story.

I absolutely love your wife but damn she drives me nuts I’m always yelling at her from the east coast of the United States. Thanks for always being so honest with us. Truly an amazing journey.

[afagehi7]

Any chance you can meet Mr. B at the bar one night and ask him as a friend what happened that night? I know it’s not your style but just see how many of his stories match up with hers and then you can piece a little more. I know your in business with him or were but I would be dying to hear his side of the story.

I absolutely love your wife but damn she drives me nuts I’m always yelling at her from the east coast of the United States. Thanks for always being so honest with us. Truly an amazing journey.

I don't think anything good can come from pressing the issue at this point. IMO best to follow through with the therapy and reassess in a few weeks or months. It'll just put her on the defensive.

At this point, just have to wait and see if she reveals anything further.

One thing my wife told me, a woman always knows where her tits are... If they're on display or likewise it's not an accident.

[slenderfish]

Regarding the title of this thread:
"Her Plan" should be replaced with "My Wish".
I don't think she has a plan.

She had a plan, she pursued Mr. S and got him, and also along the way got Mr. M. But her plan ultimately did not work out, primarily because it was poorly designed in that she chose a guy who did not understand the dynamic and that he really needed to be pursuing her. He thought she was a hottie who wanted a little something on the side, and he was the stud to deliver to meet her need. He figured she would come to him each time, when she would inevitably have an itch to scratch.

Nope.

Is there a new plan in the future? Not sure.

The sex-positive therapist we are using has a strong philosophy that men cheat and/or relationships often break up because the man has a strong sexual desire that is being overlooked or pooh-poohed by the wife and is just not being met, and the man naturally feels resentment, goes underground and stuffs this desire into his fantasies, and then ultimately goes outside the relationship to get this desire met. And then everything blows up.

We are still quite new with the therapist and have not yet come anywhere near this conversation.

Let's just see how this may come up in our therapy sessions and where the conversation leads.

[slenderfish]

This is going to sound like I am attacking you, but I am not. This is a serious question.
Whether she has had affairs with other men, or not, have you ever thought that she just doesn't want to be jerk-off material for you? I have seen a ton of posts on here that call the wife "my personal porn star." Many, many women would find that to be completely degrading no matter how they felt about extra-marital sex.

She doesn't seem to have any objection with being the center of my sexual turn-ons. She and I have had long conversations about her being the "muse" and that this role is a powerful driver for me and motivation in business, hobbies, travel, etc.

I've deliberately avoided using the "personal porn star" reference with SW because I agree it would not be taken well.

[2inUPMichigan]

Regarding the title of this thread:
"Her Plan" should be replaced with "My Wish".
I don't think she has a plan.

She had a plan, she pursued Mr. S and got him, and also along the way got Mr. M. But her plan ultimately did not work out, primarily because it was poorly designed in that she chose a guy who did not understand the dynamic and that he really needed to be pursuing her. He thought she was a hottie who wanted a little something on the side, and he was the stud to deliver to meet her need. He figured she would come to him each time, when she would inevitably have an itch to scratch.

Nope.

Is there a new plan in the future? Not sure.

The sex-positive therapist we are using has a strong philosophy that men cheat and/or relationships often break up because the man has a strong sexual desire that is being overlooked or pooh-poohed by the wife and is just not being met, and the man naturally feels resentment, goes underground and stuffs this desire into his fantasies, and then ultimately goes outside the relationship to get this desire met. And then everything blows up.

We are still quite new with the therapist and have not yet come anywhere near this conversation.

Let's just see how this may come up in our therapy sessions and where the conversation leads.

I would lose a therapist quickly who blames one partner in a marriage for not automatically without reservation exploring every kink or fantasy their partner has.
Cheating is a choice, it is a deliberate action. No one forced anyone into cheating by not participating in their fantasy or kink.

That sounds like the very old traditional "you have to go along with it because he is your husband".

[slenderfish]

I would lose a therapist quickly who blames one partner in a marriage for not automatically without reservation exploring every kink or fantasy their partner has.
Cheating is a choice, it is a deliberate action. No one forced anyone into cheating by not participating in their fantasy or kink.

That sounds like the very old traditional "you have to go along with it because he is your husband".

The point I'm taking here is that the therapist recognizes the drive that is embedded in sexual desires, etc. and that it's something not readily acknowledged by traditional therapists.

implied is that if there is no possible compromise, then the relationship may be best ended.

But all this is my take.

[slenderfish]

Have you ever considered hiring someone, who has been informed of her needs and wants, to date her?

This is probably the best idea, and I've actually suggested this to her, but she insists on selecting on her own. Or has thus far.

[afagehi7]

Regarding the title of this thread:
"Her Plan" should be replaced with "My Wish".
I don't think she has a plan.

She had a plan, she pursued Mr. S and got him, and also along the way got Mr. M. But her plan ultimately did not work out, primarily because it was poorly designed in that she chose a guy who did not understand the dynamic and that he really needed to be pursuing her. He thought she was a hottie who wanted a little something on the side, and he was the stud to deliver to meet her need. He figured she would come to him each time, when she would inevitably have an itch to scratch.

Nope.

Is there a new plan in the future? Not sure.

The sex-positive therapist we are using has a strong philosophy that men cheat and/or relationships often break up because the man has a strong sexual desire that is being overlooked or pooh-poohed by the wife and is just not being met, and the man naturally feels resentment, goes underground and stuffs this desire into his fantasies, and then ultimately goes outside the relationship to get this desire met. And then everything blows up.

We are still quite new with the therapist and have not yet come anywhere near this conversation.

Let's just see how this may come up in our therapy sessions and where the conversation leads.

I tend to agree. It's probably more usually the male but it also applies to females. With females it's not usually some sex desire but something else (connection attention etc) but men it's probably more related to sex.

Pushing the desires down is tough to swallow. If I were younger, it would be harder and likely impossible.

Needs to be some compromise, not necessarily the wife fucking a guy for the husband, there's other ways to both get what they need.

[afagehi7]

Regarding the title of this thread:
"Her Plan" should be replaced with "My Wish".
I don't think she has a plan.

She had a plan, she pursued Mr. S and got him, and also along the way got Mr. M. But her plan ultimately did not work out, primarily because it was poorly designed in that she chose a guy who did not understand the dynamic and that he really needed to be pursuing her. He thought she was a hottie who wanted a little something on the side, and he was the stud to deliver to meet her need. He figured she would come to him each time, when she would inevitably have an itch to scratch.

Nope.

Is there a new plan in the future? Not sure.

The sex-positive therapist we are using has a strong philosophy that men cheat and/or relationships often break up because the man has a strong sexual desire that is being overlooked or pooh-poohed by the wife and is just not being met, and the man naturally feels resentment, goes underground and stuffs this desire into his fantasies, and then ultimately goes outside the relationship to get this desire met. And then everything blows up.

We are still quite new with the therapist and have not yet come anywhere near this conversation.

Let's just see how this may come up in our therapy sessions and where the conversation leads.

I would lose a therapist quickly who blames one partner in a marriage for not automatically without reservation exploring every kink or fantasy their partner has.
Cheating is a choice, it is a deliberate action. No one forced anyone into cheating by not participating in their fantasy or kink.

That sounds like the very old traditional "you have to go along with it because he is your husband".

I don't think the therapist is blaming anyone but making observation that applies to this situation. Usually it's the guys with the weird sex fantasies and women cheat for other reasons... Not usually directly related to her sexual fantasies.