To any woman considering this

[Abrandnewstart194]

Thank you to the OP for posting her honest feelings, and thoughts about her experiences with the lifestyle. We need to read more of this. Too often all we hear are the success stories, stripped of any conflict. That’s just not reality for most of us who give this lifestyle a try.

I hope you recover from your disappointing experiences, and find for yourself and your husband the path to what will truly make you happy.

[blackmann33]

Clearly I’m bitter, maybe I won’t always feel this way. I’ll devils advocate myself before you get the chance to. I wish I hadn’t done it. I liked being a good wife, living a normal life. I feel like I forgot how to do it. It feels a little tainted now. Unnecessarily confusing. There should be more female perspective in this discussion. A bland goodbye.

Having read your other posts, it sounds like you've had either a series of bad experiences or a bad fight with your hubby. Perhaps just a stern disagreement with him, IDK.

In either case, it's not too late to turn back. Of course you cannot un-fuck the guys you played with no more than you can erase the memories, but they don't have to define who you are forever. You have the right to go back to being a "normal" housewife and turn the page, leaving this part of your life story behind you. For me, some mistakes in my the past are fond memories (honestly some are bad, sexy, naughty, screw-ups, erotic, they run the entire course) of things I would never do again. Your years of playing can be the same because obviously you cherish your relationship with your hubby, and having a good, healthy, happy marriage with happy kids is way better than a good fuck any day. Sorry, but true IMO.

I don't know the full story, but if you drop this kink and your husband cannot, then maybe explore letting him play on his own if he wants and if the outcome is beneficial to your marriage. If he does not, and insists on bringing up the kink on every occasion, then a polite, consistent "thanks, but no thanks" should suffice and not threaten your marriage if the two of you are in a good place. If not in a good place, then work through it because as you know marriage takes work. And of course you could try pegging him if that works the kink out of his system.

You mentioned a loss of control and being a pawn trapped between two men. Well, as others have said you DO have the power. You can say "no" to doing it again if that is YOUR choice. And your hubby should accept it.

I have seen some women continue in the LS because they want to please their husband, their FWB, or sometimes they are just not in the mood for sex but go ahead anyway for the aforementioned reason. I never like seeing that look on a woman's face. Remember, it's supposed to be FUN and SATISFYING. When neither of those things are true, especially for the hotwife, then its time for an extended pause or even quit. You have been very good at recognizing your needs while being considerate of others. So if you don't like it, don't do it (anymore) especially if you don't feel the need for something extra. If you still have the need, then it's a different story.

But to digress for a moment, clearly there were times when you were getting some extraordinary enjoyable moments from this, so do you really have regrets? My sister had an intense (down low) lesbian affair with a college classmate for two years, but after graduating she has never thought about being with another woman. Does she regret it? Partially because of her beliefs, but also NO, because it was an itch she scratched that is now a pleasant memory. Regrets are how we learn not to do the same thing again without the ability to claim we have never done it. So own it. Learn. Grow. It may not be as bad as you think.

Best wishes

[parklife]

Great response blackmann33….

And all things considered, Zumi isn’t all wrong either…. I’m reminded of a blog on Evolvingyourman entitled “top 10 reasons cuckolding is unhealthy” and much of it rings similar…. (And the writer is far from anti cuck or hotwifing.. just good to see another perspective from time to time)

Zuni was a good voice in the room and I’m hoping she doesn’t always feel this way and that time and distance bring understanding and acceptance of this part of her life.

[WishMeCuck]

I really like to hear the unsuccessful stories. They are so missing in our kinky bubble.

I just wish your post had more detail of what actually happened and how it made you feel, rather than your interpretation and conclusion of it.

For instance, what were your husband's sore spots? Why was it difficult to navigate? Why you say you could not expect anything from the "bull"?

Is sounds like your husband was demanding, selfish, insecure, confused and controlling... and screwed it up. Was that it?

I really wish we could see in more detail what went wrong so those looking to step into the LS could pay attention to those pitfalls.

[blackmann33]

Zuni was a good voice in the room and I’m hoping she doesn’t always feel this way and that time and distance bring understanding and acceptance of this part of her life.

I agree, she has a great voice and as others have said it is interesting to read about the other side when things don't go well. I once asked the forum about arguments with your spouse and got almost no response. I can't believe it's because people in the LS never argue, but more likely it's that people don't want to talk about it - which I understand. The topic is a downer on something we are supposed to enjoy.

[zumiruni]

Jaded hotwife, this is how it ended.

I know my last post was off the rails. I was in a way, for reasons. Some that the involved men aren’t responsible for. I thought about editing for tone, then stubbornly decided no the intensity of this feeling is worthy of being known. Tried to communicate that I know this particular kink works for some people and I was probably just never that person. Still feel like there are not enough female voices in the discussion around a kink that cannot exist without a consenting woman - yes, I was always consenting. I understand if it felt like an attack, sorry if that caused you damage. Yes I’m surprising myself by still talking about it. It took a lot of processing going in, it’s taking some unguided processing going out. There is no girlfriend to call up about this. Well there’s one, but she’s more of a fiery millennial feminist than I am so…

Details. Raw and without rosy cuck colored glasses. I had never had sex when I met my husband at the age of 20. In my generation and in my social circles this is quite late. I was late due to my conservative religious upbringing, but mostly due to my strong fear and distrust of male sexuality (I won’t play the “victim card” but I, along with 1:3 American women, have my reasons). I eagerly had sex with him the second time we were ever really within reach of each other. (I was his waitress, that’s how we met.) Because I had already fallen in love with him before we saw each other again (wrote letters back and forth for 3 months, full on Nicholas Sparks shit) and because I trusted him and our ability to work through any sort of consequence of the sex having should it come up. Yes, I did consciously think through all these things even as a horny 20 year old. My. Brain. Doesn’t. Shut. Up.

Good time to say, if this is a chore for you to read (and subsequently respond to) then maybe… I don’t know, go fold some laundry. Your wife is probably buried under the endless piles of it somewhere. You don’t have to read this.

*Short mention of religion for context* When I met my future husband I had tangibly backed out of religion, theologically was just not really thinking about it. He was super Catholic. Partied with the cool kids on Saturday night, attended mass every Sunday morning throughout college. I loved him. I trusted him. I loved his family. I was starving for stability. At 23 and newly married I converted, determined to be the quintessential good Catholic wife. Felt real purpose in it. Was ready to destroy my body for the litter of delightful and maddening children that would follow. I was a new nurse. My husband a medical student. I was so inspired, so in love, so motivated to co-create a solid partnership and beautiful life.

In our first year of marriage I worked the night shift as all new nurses do. Medical school in the first 2 years for those with a social IQ is kind of like an extended 2 years of senior year of college. You’re smart enough to get it done with the freedom to prioritize your own time. So my husband had freedom of time and a new wife who slept a lot. Also a new wife who had just lost her dear dad and was reckoning with aforementioned reasons why she’s not a victim for the first time since it had happened. *If you’re reading this and you know me from the identifying information given (something my husband is constantly paranoid about) then… I guess you know me and you’re also on this forum. High five, keep walking.*

So yada yada, I was either working the night shift or in my husband’s bed. And it became clear that even during times I was on a normal sleep schedule and fully available in his bed he was in the living room, or bathroom, masturbating to porn. Or masturbating to erotic literature (Reddit) - higher brow, less for your wife to be mad about. So young bride who grew up in a (contradictory and fucked up) conservative religious household with a history of trauma and whole hearted motivation to convert and be the perfect wife for her intelligent, gregarious, loving husband was… spooked. Because also and highest on the concern list was naive and insecure - “you don’t want me?? I’m in your bed! I never say no! I always give you what you want!” I felt like a child in a scorned woman’s body.

I told him my concerns, asked him to just talk to me, asked him to just have sex with me, asked him to talk to someone else more qualified to talk about it. Keep in mind my age, my background, my lack of experience. The conversation would be different at the age of 34. Then “I’m sorry. Yes I’ll stop.” Time would pass. I’d be horny and he wouldn’t have the energy or the arousal. He would admit he had masturbated to porn earlier the same day and tell me that affected his ability to become aroused a second time. These occurrences were all new, secondary to tying the knot. They did not come up prior to marriage even though we fucked from the second time we touched each other and stayed at each other’s places back and forth from the time we were engaged.

These conflicts would arise then disappear on a cycle. From time to time he would start to bring up kinky things during sex that I would visibly, physically, verbally be uncomfortable with. It wasn’t long before those kinky things included me fucking other dudes. So confusing to me. Again, see background. Husbands were supposed to be jealous, territorial, dominant in a caretaking way - and it’s not just what I expected on a conditioned level, it’s what I truly longed for in my marriage. And I was not by any means a prudish Madonna or boring pillow princess. When I wanted what I wanted I made it clear in a very sensual give and take way. I was adventurous to the limits I was comfortable with and naughtily pleased that I was the only one of my nightshifter gal pals who had licked an asshole. (Ladies, fellow nurses, if you clean it yourself you know what you’re eating.) I am ever the pleaser and shut the fuck up nod and smile type of girl unless you really fucking push my buttons, and it got to the point where I was bold enough to say “NO. And don’t ever bring it up again.” It would only get stronger and further to the extreme for him, brought up when we happened to be especially connected and on a streak of having really good sex. (I’m aware that this should in a way be a compliment, that he felt safe during those times of connectedness to bring up a very taboo fantasy for a man to have. I am aware of and appreciate the difficulty of having desires that contradict traditional masculinity. I wish my husband had had the sensitivity to appreciate my need for passionate and connected intimacy despite and in spite of my past that he was very aware of. When do I get to feel safe?)

All throughout we would otherwise have a connected relationship rooted in strong friendship and I deeply committedly loved him. Would never dream of saying “fuck this shit, I could actually have this annulled with a peace and good luck parting by the anti-divorce church I converted to” because he is my entire life. He is my religion. So the incongruence of the nights I would lay in bed next to him while he snored soundly thinking “how can he keep doing this to me? I said no. He must know how much this disturbs me, why does he keep doing this” was at times almost too much to bear. And with no one to talk to about it.

Long story slightly abridged with stories padded by the other thread and plenty untold, I decided to give it a go. I made my own decisions and I claim no victimhood even though I don’t know how well I would have fared the rest of a lifetime of saying no and don’t ever bring it up again. I let it be known I wasn’t ok with any sort of depersonalization. If a bull is a human dildo, what does that make me, etc. Made it pretty clear to anyone involved it’s important for me to feel connected, to feel like a real person with actual reciprocal attraction and respect. That it would make me sick to feel like an object. Of course there were things I liked - getting right to the nitty gritty of knowing other humans because fakeness and small talk bore me, feeling moments of sexual freedom and existential agency that I had never before had, once or twice feeling connected to other people in a truly unique way - without ownership or territoriality but still with true… hhh there’s no word.

There was one time, when prodded, I told the person fucking me when asked “how do you feel about me” that it feels like namaste. I know, vom. Don’t trust that millennial hipster she’s full of shit. And it didn’t land in the moment either. I wasn’t saying I feel at peace with you. I did and at the same time I very much didn’t. I was saying… don’t shoot me… - the light (and darkness) in me recognizes the light (and darkness) in you. But I wasn’t understood in the moment and I was prodded more, I was specifically asked if I had a crush on him. And, sure, yes I absolutely did so I answered in the affirmative and he responded in kind. That was the second time we were together. I never would have given up that information on my own. I never would have made it anyone else’s problem. I had already told my husband of course because I was freaking out and felt like I had something to confess. Because it was before I’d even met the guy in person (are we seeing a trend I should bring up in therapy or do I just know it when I know it?) and he actually took it applaudingly well. “Of course you do. And I know it doesn’t threaten what we have.” And it didn’t and it doesn’t.

Then another story slightly abridged with really no other stories to pad because I can’t seem to put it into words. Our hotwifing days were coming to a natural end due to our hopefully final move back “home” and lots of big transitions. And 6 weeks before our move my friend started to back away. When we had actually, I felt, reached a new level of comfort. I kept sending messages like writing in a diary, because one time early on he had told me “use me like your journal” and if you do not understand how hot that is then you are not an introverted woman to come of age in the time of Harriet the Spy, or Elizabeth Bennet for that matter, and that’s ok you don’t have to get it. But to have him back away, neurotic as I may be and clearly always was. When I was banking on a decrescendo to mirror the intense and cerebral start. It was disorienting. He’s busy and it’s not his life, I had no right to expect anything at all. But the mixed messages and subtle affections mingled in with silence, noncommittal plans, some extra dom-y exchanges that felt triggering… “fragile”… It fucked with me. It brought into fruition the whole fear from this hotwife/bull vector going into this, “you are an object for me to use at will, I have no more time or interest to close this out, after all of the apparent candidness I don’t have enough respect for you to be honest.” Made me feel like I’d been manipulated the whole time.

Then to relate these things to my husband. His response started off supportive, ended up paternalistic. “You should have ended that a long time ago.” Oh really? Cause you were still getting off to my interactions with him. “He’s absolutely manipulating you, he doesn’t care about you at all.” Cool, I’ll just go die in a hole. Obviously an idiot to have ever believed anything even slightly otherwise. “I care about you. I would never manipulate you like that.” What. The. Actual. Fuck. Am I living with right now. You spent YEARS manipulating me to fulfill your fantasy. And now I feel used and sad about it. And you’re chastising me for it. When none of this was ever even my idea, I was just trying to find a way for it to work for me too. My premonitions must have always been true - trust no one.

This has truly fucked with me, from start until now. And I think other women, other men, should know about how things can add up to be too much. Even if it doesn’t look like it’s too much from the outside. When your fantasy includes the actions of another person, you are obligated to consider the impact. If you’re involved even as the guy who gets to skip out scot free, you are obligated to start and finish with care. I know my experience isn’t everyone else’s. That some people “do it right” or have a strong enough marriage for it or whatever else. And I do not say it tongue in cheek at all - I am envious of others who can make this just a fun little extra thing. I genuinely applaud other women who get into it and do well with it, get yours.

Sort of envious anyway. I like that I feel things. I like that things that may seem inconsequential to others matter to me. And I think a lot of other women are the same, at least in comparison to the male counterparts. I try my best to own my own shit. I rarely claim victim, most of the time blame myself for things, every once in a while realize when a situation is shitty and usually have the balls at that point to call it out. Don’t really have the capacity to go with grace once I’m to that point and I recognize that, I’m working on it.

Of course I’m keeping my marriage, I take commitment seriously. I used to believe in monogamy, desperately wanted someone who needed me so much they couldn’t bear to share me with anyone else because they didn’t have a moment of mine to give up. I didn’t end up getting that. So what are you gonna do, I had to reorganize that in my head and my heart. I’m in a disorienting moment of I don’t know what I believe in. I do wish my husband had decided early on that if he needed this kink badly enough to keep bringing it up against my no’s that it might have been something to bring to therapy, either individually or together. Not necessarily because the kink is derived from a damaged root (jury’s still out for me on that, I know my husband’s shit too) but because his undeniable craving was crashing into my fragile barricade and it’s impossible to make the two coexist.

I will never not say - don’t bring up your fantastical ask during sex. If your wife says no, stop fucking asking. Stop fucking bringing it up. If you have to convince your wife about it, you shouldn’t be doing it. End a young marriage if it’s a strong enough need for you. Stop torturing the wife who says no and keeps loving you anyway.

[shadowtantra]

I want to thank you for sharing your experience and getting into the muck. I hope sharing this in this forum helps you in finding your way forward. I know that my wife has similar feelings and likely will not embrace this lifestyle. We have been together for 30 plus years and have the scars of infidelity on both sides. Therapy and coaching has saved us and helped us find a pathway to trust, honesty, curiosity and choices. No doubt life joys and challenges will come again. I just want to share my appreciation for taking the time to share your posting - it is valuable and valid.

[Kingmidas]

Reading that was a very moving experience. I wish you peace.

[54321]

I'm sorry to say this but you really are playing the victim. You write as if you had no pleasure from this and that everyone else was using you for their pleasure only. This contradicts so much of what you said in your older thread. You had a lot of fun. The point of hotwifing is fun. It's not supposed to be utopia or the cure for cancer.

It sounds like you're suffering from a toxic cocktail of Catholic guilt, Woke virtue signalling and Feminist victimhood
It also looks like your therapist wasn't much help. It might be good to shop around for someone better.

I'm sure you are a nice woman. This is just a bit of tough love. You don't have to suffer. Seriously, you don't have to.

54321

As a psychologist, I can honestly say that in my experience, most forms of psychotherapy are a waste of time and money. The only method that works is Hypno Analysis. It actually works very well.
Hypno Analysts aren't that common. You may have to search to find one but fortunately you can do it on Zoom so distance is no object. Good luck.

[blackmann33]

Jaded hotwife, this is how it ended.
Stop torturing the wife who says no and keeps loving you anyway.

Understood. Respect. I do not mean to be overly simplistic, but to summarize a bit it sounds like after entering the LS with trepidation, you became attached to a guy you grew to trust that let you down (poor word choice by me). As a result, you expressed some resentment towards your husband. I know it is way more complicated than that, just trying to get the gist.

I was a third for a couple years ago. I met the hubby online through mutual interests and after a few exchanges he asked me if I would fuck his wife. I had never heard of a cuckold before and I thought it was weird. But I did it anyway (typical horny male). He told me his wife wanted to "feel something" which I took to mean that he had a small dick (never saw, though). We fucked almost every day the first week. They lived an hour away, and we got together a few times a month for almost 2 years. The hubby and I were friends (shared interest) but he became weird and we barely spoke for months. Then things became normal again when she told me they were moving to be closer to family. The move was six months out, and we fucked about once a week until month four when I ghosted them.

Now to my point. Men are sometimes assholes. I felt really bad about what I did (still do). She messaged me many times but I never read them (which I regret). The truth is, I ghosted them to protect myself. I had no real commitments, nothing vested beyond sex, we had fun for a time, now they're leaving so fuck them. That's what I thought at the time and it was really unfair to both of them. I didn't want to get emotionally involved any more than I had at that point because they were leaving. So it was easy to drop them. She was an amazing person, wife, mother, a smoking hot milf who just had something on the side. And we were friends. I wished many times I still had their contact info. I would apologize even today.

I understand you didn't get ghosted but I'll say that your FWBs lack of communication is probably more about him than you. It really has nothing to do with you (I'm guessing), but it's about him and for whatever reason he wants to move on. From a 3rd's perspective, it is easier to compartmentalize than it can be for the husband or wife. As for your hubby's reaction, I can understand being upset with him. Sounds like you'll do what's best. You may have some regret giving into his fantasy, but as mentioned above, you can always say no (more).

[eventfire]

I'm sorry to say this but you really are playing the victim. You write as if you had no pleasure from this and that everyone else was using you for their pleasure only. This contradicts so much of what you said in your older thread. You had a lot of fun. The point of hotwifing is fun. It's not supposed to be utopia or the cure for cancer.

It sounds like you're suffering from a toxic cocktail of Catholic guilt, Woke virtue signalling and Feminist victimhood
It also looks like your therapist wasn't much help. It might be good to shop around for someone better.

I'm sure you are a nice woman. This is just a bit of tough love. You don't have to suffer. Seriously, you don't have to.

54321

As a psychologist, I can honestly say that in my experience, most forms of psychotherapy are a waste of time and money. The only method that works is Hypno Analysis. It actually works very well.
Hypno Analysts aren't that common. You may have to search to find one but fortunately you can do it on Zoom so distance is no object. Good luck.

Hey, count jacula, you wanna tone down the judgement? This is probably the only place she has to vent. Victim or not, her feelings are viscerally valid and just as eager as people are to see a hotwife go through with the act, they should also be just as eager to support them when things go awry. This might surprise you, but people can lie to themselves, too.

[54321]

Victim or not, her feelings are viscerally valid

Indeed. Everyone's feelings are valid. By getting to understand our feelings better, we can move forward with our lives.

Thank you for your comment.

Best wishes,

54321

[sandy691196]

I'm sorry to say this but you really are playing the victim. You write as if you had no pleasure from this and that everyone else was using you for their pleasure only. This contradicts so much of what you said in your older thread. You had a lot of fun. The point of hotwifing is fun. It's not supposed to be utopia or the cure for cancer.

It sounds like you're suffering from a toxic cocktail of Catholic guilt, Woke virtue signalling and Feminist victimhood
It also looks like your therapist wasn't much help. It might be good to shop around for someone better.

I'm sure you are a nice woman. This is just a bit of tough love. You don't have to suffer. Seriously, you don't have to.

54321

As a psychologist, I can honestly say that in my experience, most forms of psychotherapy are a waste of time and money. The only method that works is Hypno Analysis. It actually works very well.
Hypno Analysts aren't that common. You may have to search to find one but fortunately you can do it on Zoom so distance is no object. Good luck.

You got it right 54321. But what's the point of arguing here? How does it matter?
And as someone who has done "altered state therapy"(hypno).. Let me share my experience. If the client has a hard-wired condition.. there will be internal resistance even at the pre-conscious level. Times when the client wakes up with a jolt? We are hard wired for certain things in life. No point banging one's head against a wall to change that basic programming.

Best is awareness leading to acceptance and finally channelising one's life into the path indicated by such acceptance. Where others around the person (spouse for example) are concerned, they may face problems in coping with the newly awakened person, though.

Another point - Do remember she said that early into their marriage, hubby used to leave her in bed alone and go solo wanking on porn! That kinda sucks.. right? There was something wrong sexually right at the beginning.

In my marriage, right after we hitched up after many years of being together, I could only perform with the help of fantasies (swinging/ MfM / hotwife). I was a possessive, insecure BF. Within a year or so of meeting her, I had eroticised the pain of my fear of losing her. Messed up my mind pretty early on. Many years later, when I was in a steady extra marital relationship (like a 2nd marriage) was i able to "cure" myself. I had power, I had worked on myself and had a great physique and personality, had many many women. I think that cured my complex.

So one needs to understand her hubby's issues. Something was not right with him sexually from the early days. That tends to build situational pressure on the wife. The wife starts feeing that agreeing to the LS is a "solution". It happened with my wife. It didn't go well though (as can be expected).

Peace.

[shadowtantra]

Just to add that empowerment works both ways. He said he wanted to empower her sexuality - Great There is consent which she gave and there there is removing consent - she has the power. It's her body.

[DoctorLuv]

zumiruni,
Thanks for taking the time and expending the effort to so freely share your experience and thoughts. I hope your husband appreciates the love you have for him.