Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[Samanthasman]

Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

Since the beginning of the year my wife Samantha has had several HW adventures and one "special" relationship with a BF, Bill, she met on AM.

Bill is a married man in a don't-ask-don't-tell open relationship with his wife. He says he loves his wife and wants to spend his life with her, but they no longer have a sexual relationship. This baffles me, but then my HW relationship baffles him. He's had previous affairs, and is now fucking my wife exclusively.

From day one they both "clicked". Lots of chemistry. Lots in common. He's a tall, handsome studly alpha male, very much like my wife's ex husband...totally her "type".. Bill even seriously dated the very women Samantha's ex ended up marrying after divorce... Who is very much like my wife... Like my wife, Bill is 10 years younger than me, and has many qualities she admires in a man. Although he's a professional, he's not as financially successful as we are.

The sex between Bill and my wife Samantha is off the charts hot! He fucks her frequently and literally for hours, and because my wife is multiple orgasmic, she's cumming every few minutes, for hours on end. She's also obsessed with his cum, and he delivers load after load after hot load into her bare pussy deep into the night. Needless to say, she's in ecstasy! Drunk on cock and dopamine. They even made some videos that are absolutely the hottest porn I've ever seen... Not because it's my wife, but because of the deep passionate kissing, holding, laughing, fondling, guttural moans of intense pleasure, and the intensify of endless fucking in endless positions. It's real and it's off the charts hot. It makes me hot.

Samantha only plays solo - she does not feel comfortable being watched live, MFM, etc. but she does take pics and video to share. She always debriefs me and I always reclaim her. I'm getting tons of reclaim sex from this.

Seeing them fuck is hot. It's so intense, it makes me feel like "wow... What an experience... There is no way I could deny her this pleasure..." It makes me both excited and happy. It's something she craves.

But.. At the same time, my wife also spends a ton of non sexual time with Bill. Talking about life, music, family, business, hobbies, etc. Basically lots of the same conversations we had when we were dating and ultimately falling in love with each other long ago. This makes me jealous.

Early on, they were texting and calling continuously. This bothered me and we talked about it and Bill basically told her they had to cool it. Just cut it down to a few calls and texts between their sessions together.

Then they started going on 2-3 day trips together (3x), with my reluctant permission... This made me very jealous. My wife is a world class "compartmentalizer". When she's with him she communicates minimally with me. So, these trips basically made her happy and me miserable. And, I get no joy from this sort of misery.

Admittedly, my fear is that she will fall in love, and this will disrupt our marriage. And, pretty much every man that has ever spent any significant time with her has fallen in love with her. She is the total package. A 36-24-36D stunning beauty, that is friendly, lots of fun, intensely passionate and multiple orgasmic, and brilliant multi-millionaire jet setting business tycoon. A rare combination.

After their last trip my wife created an extensive list called "50 things I like about Bill" I found on her laptop. She clearly spent hours on it. She made the list for him to let him know she really likes him and he is important to her, beyond just the sex. She never says anything like "I love..." They never use the "L" word, but looking at this list made me feel like "wow... Looks a lot like the 50-things I love about you" list she made for me when we were dating. I confronted her about the list and basically asked her "how do you think it makes me feel when you are sharing these sorts of feelings with another man?", to which she answered "yes, I can certainly see how that would hurt you and that was not my intension.. I'm sorry"... Another little bump in the road...

Her emotional connection with him just drives me crazy. And, it drives her crazy that it drives me crazy. I mean I get it that there are people you click with and just like a lot, but I did not sign up for her to have a fully sanctioned affair with no strings attached. What's reasonable and not is a constant question I ponder.

Shortly after that last bump, we went to dinner and she told me to "man up and stop worrying... I'm doing everything that YOU wanted - fucking multiple men and having a great time... I'm not screwing up our marriage... You need to cut me some slack!" To which I responded "are you saying this intense emotional bond and relationship with Bill is nothing to worry about and you are doubling down our your commitment to our marriage?", and she said "yes"...

Then... Another bump... Only days later I was on a business trip and a friend of mine told me he saw my wife at a Starbucks with a man. One of our "rules" is total transparency... She does not need "permission" for anything, but must fully disclose. I gently asked her "so, did you see Bill yesterday?" And she said definitively "no"... I later said "so and so mentioned he saw you talking to some guy the other day..." At which point she created an elaborate story about a meeting with a client. I later went back to my friend and asked him to describe the man he saw my wife with, and it was clearly Bill and not the client. Finally, I confronted my wife by saying "look.. I know you saw Bill the other day, what gives?"... And she still denied it. I finally said "I have proof you were with Bill, and I'm getting pissed now!", and she finally came clean... "Yes, ok, I met him for coffee... It was just a 45min date to catch up... I was going on a biz trip and wanted to see him before I left and I just didn't want to go thru 40 questions about it... I'm sorry, it was only a coffee and a little kissing". At that point I said "I frankly don't care what you actually did with him, I care that at this point this guy has become so important to you that you are now lying to me about him... This is not good for us"

So, they took 2 weeks "off" and she dated some other guys... Then they started up again. She started having him come spend some nights with her, in a guest house, where they stay up fucking and talking all nite long.

Although the doors are locked, I have listened from the door and heard him express things like "you make me very happy... I think of you all the time... I know this is a fantasy of your husband, but these things never play out as people want them to..." These things make my skin crawl. At the same time, he is careful and respectful to never say "I love you" or ask her to do anything that would jeopardize our marriage. He's even ok with her seeing me (going back and forth) sometimes between their sessions. He takes pics and videos. Basically, he's smart enough to do what it takes to keep the husband happy so he can keep banging the wife.

To this I've told her "look, you like this guy a lot, and we all know that. You are pretty infatuated with him and he with you, and I also get that that's in part why the sex is so hot... But if you keep pushing this relationship - the emotional relationship - where can it lead other than someone, him or you or both, falling in love and people getting hurt?" She replies "we've all agreed that love is not allowed... Not in the plans for anyone... Me or Bill... Nobody wants to change the status of anyone's marriage". But of course love is not something that you can plan for.

I've asked her "don't you like him enough at this point that it's enough .. Can't you just have great sex from time to time without pushing into his soul?"... And the answer is basically "not really". I offered to have a meeting with her and Bill (we've never met) to discuss everything. She refused. She wants to keep this relationship separate. She is afraid I will get more involved...want to watch.. Do an MFM... Direct. Things she is not comfortable with. I've told her I would like that, but don't have to have it... And that I frankly don't want to meet Bill, but am willing to do so to help make this work. Bill even agreed to meet, but Samantha refused.

So, now here we are... When I ask her how are things going with Bill, it annoys her, and it's a source of tension.

This weekend we went out to dinner. I asked her to wear a super sexy dress, that she agreed to wear for Bill, and she shot back "I'd feel like a slut wearing that to a nice restaurant!" At which point I said "baby, no problem, you don't have to wear the dress, but why yell at me just for asking... I feel like there is a double standard here.. If Bill asked you I know you would say yes, but at minimum you would not yell at him for asking"... A short squabble.

Finally, at dinner I basically said "Look, this Bill thing continues to annoy me and cause tension", and she said "so, are you saying you want me to break up with him?", to which I said "I just don't know how to make this work... To stop arguing about it, or stop worrying about it, so, unless we can come up with a way to make this work, reduce the tension, I don't see this being good for us"

She then said she would drop him and I simply needed to give her a definitive decision. She said she would be hurt and devastated and sad, but she would definitely stop the relationship if that's what I wanted. She reiterated that she believes he was and is "perfect for us" because he provided frequent intense sex, which we both want, and she believes he would never push for anything that would change the status of his marriage or ours. But, she also said she's tired of talking about it and arguing about it and is willing to walk away at this point so we don't have to talk about it any more. I was actually very surprised at how willing she was to walk away.

I have many mixed emotions...

I know many on this forum have followed our story. I've received endless "red flag" warnings and messages from members here saying my marriage is in danger, and this has had an effect on my actions and emotions. I have no interest in being another casualty of this lifestyle. This is where all of this has brought us...

Now I am left to make the definitive decision. Kill Bill?

[stellers26]

Of course, Kill Bill. You are too insecure to handle this type relationship, your wife is compartmentalizing it big time, her irritation with your questions tells me that you are asking too many and in a way that communicates your insecurity, and her efforts to keep you cool are draining her.

I dont know what you are getting out of it, you arent allowed to watch or participate in person, they go on trips together, I think you need to find another way to get your sharing kick but without this guy.

[luvMyHotwife]

My wife and I sometimes have philosophical discussions about life and us as a couple, what we want, where we're going. You need to have such discussions to know what to do in your situation. Have such a discussion, tell us what was said, and then we might be able to give you advise.

[sidestreet]

I firmly believe that if the situation isn't working for both of you, that you need to either change the situation or end it. You have expressed your concerns and issues clearly, but your wife was not willing to change the nature of her relationship with Bill. I feel that leaves only one choice; breaking it off with Bill. She is gaslighting you by making this something that you need to "man up" and deal with. That is the opposite of being concerned for your part in this. The way you describe this it comes across as your wife only being concerned with her part in it, and doing things the way she wants. When confronted with your feelings on the matter she marginalizes them.

I think you would have been justified in cutting this off long ago.

[traycir]

I have to say, for what it's worth, I agree with sidestreet completely. She is lied to you about meeting him and is reluctant to give you information. It sounds like you are at a serious crossroads here, a tipping point. If she doesn't break it off now then she probably never will. The more time that goes by the more invested in him she becomes. I think the longer you wait for her to do it the harder it will be. Sure, she will be upset at first, but if you have a good marriage she will get over it. It's just my two cents.

[boden]

SM,

I don't see this improving overall, It may improve from time to time, enough to keep you 'just' comfortable, but overall you relationship will deteriorate as Bill becomes more desired. Samantha demonstrated her willingness to lie to you about a meeting with Bill, innocuous or not, and in so doing signaled that she values that aspect of her relationship with Bill (albeit brief) more than her relationship with you.

My experience has been that many find that lying becomes easier after the first time.

There is a high likelihood that if you don't assert yourself you will be told, explicitly or implicitly, to take it or leave it. And, based on your prior postings you may well 'take it.' That is certainly your prerogative.

I urge you to develop a contingency plan, a Plan B, to aid you should she decide that being with Bill is more important than placing you in her true No. 1 position, not just number 1 for some things. It is far better to be proactive than reactive.

Decide what you want, what you can live with (long term), and what you are willing to do and perhaps lose to reach that objective.

A complete plan B of course must comprehend the many facets of your collective married lives.

Don't formulate demands that you may later want to back-track on.

Then and only then, talk with Samantha and try to seek an arrangement that you will both be HAPPY with. If you're too far apart after a reasoned discussion, tell her and tell her what you are going to do.

Make a decision. If you don't Samantha, Bill and your apathy will be the deciders. You will just get to live with it.

Regards and best wishes,
B

[FNQLivin]

I think the fact that you needed to ask this question tells you more than any answer you will get here. Some couples are ok with this type of relationship, you clearly are not.

[lozrob66]

In my opinion you are clearly not on the same page with your wife. She is confident in her set up. Things are just fine and dandy with her. She may just be a little confused as to why you are upset every now and then. Is the new relation energy driving her decisions? You wanted it and she's doing it?

You on the other hand, and it has been quite clear from your posts, are not happy or satisfied and definitely not meeting the expectations of your fantasy. I think you sold yourself short when beginning this fantasy in allowing her to go solo. You clearly wanted this and took one for the team in order to make it happen.

It is not enough to be together intellectually on this, you have to be together emotionally. Also and more importantly you must be confident that you know what is going on. You don't have this confidence with your wife. Because you are not both on the same page you are desperately trying to keep a handle on things but you are not playing together. Play together.

If things were "how they should be" you would not have posted your heartfelt concerns. There is obviously something wrong for you to feel this way. A little anxiety, yes, bring it on. You are not enjoying yourself.

The thing is this shit isn't real. This is just us having fun. You can stop at any time. We were brave enough to step over that line and have a go, that's all. What is important is that both people have fun. If it isn't fun don't do it. If you don't like that guy, get another one. Exercise your power of veto. Find someone who suits both of you. There are no fucking rules here. You do not have to do anything you don't want to do. If you wife doesn't like that she has choices too, no offense to Samantha! Even the most cuckold of cuckolds is exactly where he wants to be.

[HowardRoarke]

Sman-

First and foremost, your anguish clearly comes through in this post. I am very sorry to hear that anyone goes through this.

If it were just balls-to-the-wall sex with her showing a strong sense of perspective while giving you incredible affection and love for allowing her these adventures, even with some emotional connections, that would be one thing. But look at what they're BOTH saying:

"Yes, ok, I met him for coffee... It was just a 45min date to catch up... I was going on a biz trip and wanted to see him before I left and I just didn't want to go thru 40 questions about it... I'm sorry, it was only a coffee and a little kissing".

That is completely disregarding your feelings. Plus, she did it at a Starbucks where anyone could see them and it would likely get back to you. Did she consider that? If it didn't even occur to her it's clear that you didn't enter into the equation as anything other than a hassle to be avoided. Yeah yeah yeah she compartmentalizes, whatever.

Let me ask you this: if the shoe were on the other foot, and she was catching you doing something you both had agreed for the good of the marriage, you would not do, and LYING about it repeatedly when she gave you gentle opportunities to come clean, how would she have reacted?

And after the two weeks off she escalates AGAIN: having him over for overnights, right back to upping the ante. She's not daring you to stop her. She's not even considering the possible outcomes, if her actions as you've related them are any indicator.

And here is where Bill makes both his move and his mistake. He tips his hand, starts planting the seeds, apparently not thinking it would get back to you:

Although the doors are locked, I have listened from the door and heard him express things like "you make me very happy... I think of you all the time... I know this is a fantasy of your husband, but these things never play out as people want them to..."

THAT is the classic player's long game.

He means to have your wife.

Maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, and hell, maybe not forever.

But he WANTS TO TAKE HER FROM YOU.

Sman, your posts here have been very compelling to follow from the get-go. I've always admired your willingness to lay bare the back-and-forth of your journey here. It's pretty clear that you are beyond tore up about how she responds to this guy, as well you ought to be. The fact that she can't see beyond the dopamine right now doesn't mean she won't always be this blind, but you've got to pull the plug NOW.

I suspect that the luster will come off of Bill pretty damned quickly once your wife is looking at him through the rear-view mirror of two-months' time of no contact.

Oh, and one last thing.

"Compartments" are for ocean-going vessels.

She's always number one in your thoughts, regardless of where you are and what you're doing, clearly.

Don't you think you have the right to always be number one in hers, regardless of what/who she is doing as well?

Sincere Best Wishes-

HR.

[davidm205]

When one lies there is trouble. Kill Bill but your in for a rocky road if your relationship is still strong enough to survive the aftermath.

[SmilingHusband]

I know many on this forum have followed our story. I've received endless "red flag" warnings and messages from members here saying my marriage is in danger, and this has had an effect on my actions and emotions. I have no interest in being another casualty of this lifestyle. This is where all of this has brought us..Now I am left to make the definitive decision. Kill Bill?

the answer is obvious, and you know it already. of course!! you're over your head, and this shit is way out of control....

I have not bothered to post on your threads much lately because they share a repeating pattern; you express a concern, and then proceed to ignore the advice given. Another OHW member told me this recently via PM:

"SM: "I want THIS and wife wants THAT (Or "Wife wants THIS and I don't know...should I give in?"). Advice, please, HELP!"

(The denizens of the board give much thoughtful advice both pro and con)

(SM then promptly argues with anyone suggesting he grow a spine/put his foot down in any way)

So, I am not alone in my thoughts re you and your situation. Of course Bill should be cut loose. This shit where she does not contact you, and goes on overnights and trip, that shit is fucked up!! put yer damn foot down and sit on this. don't be a freakin' doormat, and screw the "let her run free" crowd.

take charge Mr. Alpha. you're headed for cuck-city at best, and, well, you know what's worst. good luck. you seem like a nice guy. think with the big head man. this is supposed to be a team sport. you're getting a shit sandwich, you ask me.

SH

[wvhotwifeshubby]

I must agree with SH. It is likely that if you try to put an end to Bill that she will resist and threaten to quit altogether. Do not let her threats stop you, this is very dangerous and this woman is emotionally involved. To sit down and make a list like that, my wife would never do anything like that. My wife and I haven't been doing this long, however it seems that you have been unhappy from the beginning. I have been unhappy with certain situations but my wife has always maintained if its too much for me to handle, we stop, period! Her words, I mean more to her than any of this sex on the side shit. I would shut everything down and get back to the two of you. If after a break you two decide to pick it back up then make mfm a must or no dice. I understand you dont want it to end but I beleive it has to in order to put you all back on track. Take this for what it is, I just felt that if you could take a little away from this post then it would be worth it. I hate to read that anyone would go thru a situation such as this. It is truly heartbreaking. I would be more than happy to share my experiences with you privately if you wish. YIM is in my Sig. Take care and good luck

[SmilingHusband]

well-said brother.

[Samanthasman]

Thank you all for the responses.

A little update - somewhat to my surprise Samantha has told me repeatedly that she is not mad at me and will not hold a grudge or resentment if I tell her to dump Bill. She says "I will be sad and maybe even devastated for a while, but I don't blame you... I get it, and it is what it is"

She has also expreased that if she cuts Bill, she will still see Sid and others...

Her upfront willingness to cut Bill without argument actually makes me second guess myself about whether that's the best decision. I could also ask her to see him once a month, for example.

Also - I'm fairly certain she would not sneak around. She saw seeing him at a coffee shop as a minor deal (ask forgiveness vs. Ask permission). If she saw him after a breakup, it would be a major violation of trust, and I really don't see that happening.

It is interesting to see the variety of feedback here. I tried to lay out the situation very clearly and articulately. Seeing how different people respond and advise on the exact same data shows us all the this is far from any science here...

Some people see me as the problem, while others blame her, etc.

Actually, our relationship is not in a bad place. I do to feel in the least bit that my marriage is in any way in trouble at this moment. I do feel the need to be pro-active to keep it that way however.

[Samanthasman]

Sounds to me SMan that your "sex toy" is someone's else "sex toy" now, unless you can share, well, sit back and get the "leftovers" that is, as you have been doing now for the past several months now. If you "Kill Bill" as you say, then she will resent you for it..forever? Maybe not forever...but probably for a very long time. Now, you know deep in your heart she will always "lust" after Bill more than you, and that's not a feeling or position I would want with my wife. So, why does she stay with you?...is it for financial security? If so, I couldn't live with that knowledge...I want to be me wife's BEST and ONLY lover...but that's just me. If I know deep in my heart I'm not her #1 guy, then I probably would move on and let her move on too. Good luck!

EDIT: I meant to add..She is his "sex toy" AND they have made intimate connections on other levels beyond just sex...that, I'm afraid, does not bode well for you SMan, to be bluntly honest.

Best and only lover!!??? Boy oh boy are you on the wrong site - lol...

I'm not too worried that a 3-month affair is going to cause a lifetime of resentment from my wife...

[FNQLivin]

Actually Sam's man I don't see any wide variation in advice. And I certainly don't see many people saying you are the problem.

Stop this relationship. It is not good for you. If it were, you wouldn't be here every second week asking about Bill. And that's no a criticism, it is just how it seems.

BTW, you mention the guest house and being locked and how he 'doesn't mind' her coming over to see you in between....it's your house and she is your wife. I can't believe or imagine a situation where a door in my own house could or would be locked and I was denied access. That just seems outrageous to me. For sure, if she wants her privacy you need to respect that (but you didn't, you listened outside), but to lock the door?

[mopacpower]

IMO -- I say stop all the extra stuff. And go out for a romantic weekend just the two of you. Nobody else and don't bring up anybody else in discussion. Just be with each other for a little bit maybe 2 weeks.

Then start up again slowly, but no Bill, he was worming his way into her heart. She may not have seen it but we did, like the frog cooking slowly in the pot, that didn't realize it was being cooked.

Good luck, be a Alpha male!

[davidm205]

First, you are probably being manipulated as she sensed you were about to pull the plug and so backed down attempting to use your love for her i.e.' I will be devastated routine" to keep that from happening not forgetting she lied.

What is a lie? Did not know there is a difference between a big lie or a little one? Whenever a spouse lies to the other especially concerning a lover then you have a major issue. It is a breech of trust and faith.

She probably does not want you to close it down because it will cause her to have to make a choice. Bill or you. Or having a secret affair.

We judge people by there actions not what they say when they have lied to us. You seem to be blinded by your love and desire. Not the first and not the last this will happen too.

You need to wake up because this is spiraling down the toilet and a few people will get hurt especially you.

My two cents.....,

[SmilingHusband]

Actually, our relationship is not in a bad place. I do not feel in the least bit that my marriage is in any way in trouble at this moment.

bullshit. (I fixed your typo (in bold) above, cause I know that's what you meant to type). Stop talking in half measures. Either come here to face the truth, or don't bother.

your wife is very selfish, and is running away with this. she's getting way out ahead of you, and I see no "team" with you guys. very bad sign.

continue to ignore advice at your own risk. But, then again, you could listen to the "let her run free" morons and deal with the wreckage afterwards. wake the fuck up.

considering your alleged financial demographic, I think you are in more danger than most.

SH

[valleyview]

Hi SM.

S. has put you in a no-win situation.

Correct me if I am wrong - before Bill was part of your lives, you and S. MUTUALLY agreed on a set of rules. She is now asking you to unilaterally make a decision. You can't win this one.

The ongoing contradiction I read in your saga is you have often expressed concern about "losing your marriage" while at the same time insisting your marriage is strong. These two thoughts are incompatible and cause anxiety - as you know well!

S's involvement with Bill outside of their sexual relationship is troubling. In the cuck world this is much more dangerous than the sex, as it is a sign of emotional attachment. I have never bought into the idea that rules made in the living room that basically say -"you cannot fall in love with your bf" are worth much. When you fall in love rules are meaningless.

I believe S is in love with you AND Bill, but likes fucking Bill better(for now). So you are behind 2 to 1 here. I am not really qualified to speak in some ways because "reclaim sex" is not something I want or enjoy unless sincerely and eagerly initiated by the wife(not out of guilt or as a bribe to keep the extramarital fucking going). You have stated more than once that S is not really into the reclaim thing anymore. I prefer no sex(my current situation), to being relegated exclusively to reclaim sex. If you wife only wants you after fucking another guy or while fantasizing about another guy - you have a sex life that I would not want, which is why I am not a very good cuckold.

I believe the feelings you have expressed over this situation are completely normal. Being married to someone who loves someone else changes the relationship. Some cucks drool with excitement, others like you become concerned.

Really Bill is not the problem here. Your relationship to Sam is. Even if she dumps Bill, there will be another one at some point reigniting these fears. As you stated in one of your earlier posts you either get burned or get really good playing with fire - you are there my friend!

I am letting my wife's love affair play out, if she really loves the guy there is nothing I can do anyways. Fortunately my sexual horizons are not limited to my wife's sexual trysts. At least in this regard there is some "Alpha" - having all my sexual excitement tied to a woman who fucks others and is in love with others is just too much power given over.

[mundyman]

Hi SM. I've enjoyed your sharing of you and your wife's lifestyle. I appreciate also your honesty in sharing your feelings. I don't mean to be wordy but here goes:
I went back and reread your original "Newbie" thread, and from the very beginning your wife adamantly stated repeatedly that she loved you, loved her family and wouldn't let a FB ruin that or come between you. On the other hand you state that she is a driven businesswoman and a "world class" compartmentalizer. You have throughout your original thread shared how you are concerned with her growing infatuation with Bill, and have described her sex drive going supernova.
Well from here it appears that she IS making this work by compartmentalizing this lifestyle. The problem is that she has also seemed to have compartmentalized you. As I've read many of the other threads it strikes me that the successful couples keep the BF/FB/FWB in the compartments while working and living through this lifestyle TOGETHER. That doesn't seem to be happening here.
As the successful businesswoman you describe I'm sure she is driven and focused on being successful in the business world. A person able to ignore distractions as she handles one situation after another with great success. A person who lives in the moment and enjoys and relishes the opportunity to focus on the task at hand. This is a great way to run a company and be successful, but not so much in the personal world.
Bill, Sid, Al, et.al, might be separate business accounts that she spends time on, develops, grows, and eventually closes the deal; but NOT YOU. You say you work together. Would you accept this type of compartmentalizing in your work? Would you tolerate her lack of communication when she meets with a client, would it be alright for her to say trust me I know what I'm doing and then give no more details after a business meeting or while developing an account?
I agree with Howard, I think Bill is a player and is beginning to make the long play. His statement in the guesthouse is a serious red flag and should be seen as his way of 'planting the seed' of doubt in your wife's mind. If I remember correctly from this board; to make a hotwife, plant the seed of hotwifery in her mind and then let it grow on its own until she is comfortable with the idea. Slowly cultivate the hotwife idea until she is more accepting. Is Bill doing this to your wife on the L word idea?
You only know your wife, not us. You share with us the highlights and not the everyday interaction between you and your wife. When you say your relationship is strong who am I to argue, although there was that Starbucks thing...not such a small thing is it? Not like she spent twice what she really told you on that new dress? Agilitymanuever seemed to make this work and survive, but only when his wife was strong enough to step away when she felt herself crossing the line to falling in love. Do you trust your wife to do the same?
I think your wife is calling your bluff on Bill. It's the art of the negotiation. She knows you, your weaknesses, and what you're willing to accept. She's using this against you in the Bill negotiations. Do you know your wife's heart so well, her weaknesses, what she is willing to accept or not accept. Where is her line? Are willing to call her bluff. Bill is her drug right now and she seems willing to do almost anything to get it.
I'm in the Keep Bill with some real strong amendments to the Bill connection....or Kill Bill, quickly and to finality. Step back and let the flames cool a bit. Readjust both of your expectations and then reengage. It seems that the fire started to burn hotter than both of you were perhaps ready for. Right now she is getting everything she wants and you get the angst, heartache, and anxiety. This should be for the both of you together, you are not a thing to be put in a compartment.
Good luck and thanks for sharing.

[Mr Quick]

I think you do need to man up and put your foot down and say enough is enough. I also really hate to say it but I think she's just telling you what you want to hear. You say she's a strong and independent woman? From the way you describe her she's going to ultimately do what she wants to do. If I were you I'd quick dicking around and go straight to the source of the problem and have a little talk with him and tell him this shit isn't working out anymore.

[Samanthasman]

Hi SM.

S. has put you in a no-win situation.

Correct me if I am wrong - before Bill was part of your lives, you and S. MUTUALLY agreed on a set of rules. She is now asking you to unilaterally make a decision. You can't win this one.

The ongoing contradiction I read in your saga is you have often expressed concern about "losing your marriage" while at the same time insisting your marriage is strong. These two thoughts are incompatible and cause anxiety - as you know well!

S's involvement with Bill outside of their sexual relationship is troubling. In the cuck world this is much more dangerous than the sex, as it is a sign of emotional attachment. I have never bought into the idea that rules made in the living room that basically say -"you cannot fall in love with your bf" are worth much. When you fall in love rules are meaningless.

I believe S is in love with you AND Bill, but likes fucking Bill better(for now). So you are behind 2 to 1 here. I am not really qualified to speak in some ways because "reclaim sex" is not something I want or enjoy unless sincerely and eagerly initiated by the wife(not out of guilt or as a bribe to keep the extramarital fucking going). You have stated more than once that S is not really into the reclaim thing anymore. I prefer no sex(my current situation), to being relegated exclusively to reclaim sex. If you wife only wants you after fucking another guy or while fantasizing about another guy - you have a sex life that I would not want, which is why I am not a very good cuckold.

I believe the feelings you have expressed over this situation are completely normal. Being married to someone who loves someone else changes the relationship. Some cucks drool with excitement, others like you become concerned.

Really Bill is not the problem here. Your relationship to Sam is. Even if she dumps Bill, there will be another one at some point reigniting these fears. As you stated in one of your earlier posts you either get burned or get really good playing with fire - you are there my friend!

I am letting my wife's love affair play out, if she really loves the guy there is nothing I can do anyways. Fortunately my sexual horizons are not limited to my wife's sexual trysts. At least in this regard there is some "Alpha" - having all my sexual excitement tied to a woman who fucks others and is in love with others is just too much power given over.

VV - always good hearing from you.

I don't think we've struck love yet, but I'm not sure it makes a difference. I don't know what you mean by "no win situation". I feel like I still have a veto vote that can be enforced. I don't think she will fight me on it. You say Bill is ahead 2-to-1, but the truth is that she has a family with me... A business... A marriage...commitments... A life... I'm fairly confident I'm still "ahead" 10-to-1...

I actually do like "reclaim sex", by the way. I don't really feel bad being relegated to that. It actually makes sense to me that sex with a new lover is hotter - I expect that. However, it will feel a little bad if that diminishes a lot with Bill gone

[BallSpanking]

Kill Bill.
She already is not being honest with you.
Bad sign.

[a_unique_being]

You asked if about thoughts regarding ending it with Bill: My thought has always been that the intense connection your wife has with Bill was always a concern. This is shown by her behavior in putting her relationship with Bill first over her relationship with you. Why would she lie about an innocent meeting with Bill? Why wouldn't she wear that dress when her own husband requests it? Why is she so dismissive towards hubby's concerns? It also seemed like she was more sexually open with Bill than with you, as evidenced by doing more bondage type of activities ( Has she done that with you?).

It was almost like her relationship with Bill was the primary relationship and demoted you to a best friend with benefits. My thought is that you should definitely veto Bill out of the relationship.

They haven't exchanged "I love yous" (to your knowledge at least) because they don't have to, they know that they are in love with each other. I have a reasonable suspicion that she has fallen deeply in love for Bill but refuses to acknowledge it or is feeling guilty to admit it to you ( thats why she'll say no if you ask if shes in love with him) . I believe that she is already in love with Bill (and visa versa) as reflected by her actions.

Take some charge in the relationship and veto Bill. Considering that the amount of hotwife experience is new to your marriage, the more you let her stray away with Bill the more likely you'll lose your wife. I strongly believe that the commonality in a successful marriage and a successful hot wife lifestyle is that at the end of the day the love for one another (hubby and hotwife) always comes first. In that same regard, a successful hotwife should put her hubby's concern first and she should always do a "status check" to see what the temperature of the relationship is. After all her priority should be to her husband first and her lovers second.

Kill Bill soon and take a short break in the hotwife activities. Take some time off and remind her why she fell in love with you as well as showing her that you are an alpha lover that she married (try new stuff, maybe some bondage?D/S?). I say reconnect on every level.

Make sure that during this reconnection the hotwife topic gets discussed, remind yourselves why your are getting into it. Is it for Sam's sexual satisfaction (as a result of not being fulfilled by you) or is it a hobby of sorts that is meant to enhance the intimacy of your marriage (key point, enhance it not replace it) ?

Then tear that old hotwife contract of yours and do a new one from the ground up. You have enough experience in the hotwife lifestyle that you can create a custom one for yourselves that can be tailored to your needs as well has clear any misunderstandings.


When you do decided to "kill Bill", consider establishing a no contact policy. I believe that this will truly test the strength of the commitment to your marriage. If she does not contact Bill (at all) for a period of time, then it shows that your marriage can continue the hotwife activities. If she contacts Bill after you firmly establish a no contact policy, then I would refrain from continuing any hotwife activities until your marriage is strong, even then her not respecting your boundaries will suggest a possible end to your relationship (at least figuratively). As a warning, because she is in love with Bill she will lie about her contacting/meeting (as she has done so already ) him. You will have to do an occasional snooping to verify that her story checks out.

You asked for thoughts well here is mine. I urge you to consider the thoughts on the threads and make your decision wisely. I think that there is a consensus in most of your threads however, you have yet to see it (or accept them). All in all i hope everything works out for you. good luck!