Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[zorro]

Really Bill is not the problem here. Your relationship to Sam is.

This is largely true. The scenario that this is largely NRE working its way through is, I believe, still the most likely case. That Bill and she have earth-shattering sex is in and of itself wonderful. What I have not liked, as you have related the story of what has happened, comes down to three pieces:
1. I did not like the comment when you expressed your discomfort about Bill earlier of "Well, you are just going to have to live with it." That did not show consideration of your feelings or caring for you.
2. I do not like the lying about her having met with Bill because she didn't want to hurt her. She means, she didn't want the knowledge of her having more contact with him to hurt her.
3. I do not like hearing about her refusing to allow Bill and you to meet directly. This was a sign in my own prior marriage of trouble. If you want harmony in your life, there is no place for divisiveness. And Samantha's position on this one is extremely divisive.

I have a hunch that Samantha may love both Bill and you. But she lacks the honesty and candor to pull off a successful polyamorous relationship. I have no idea at all if Bill is playing a long game. And I don't think emotion coming into the relationship is inherently bad or even unexpectable. It is unreasonable to expect a woman to have sheet-ripping sex with a man several times a week and not develop loving feelings for the man. So, let's just assume she does.

What Samantha lacks, from my perspective, are the skills to make a poly relationship work. She is pretending this is a polysexual relationship when emotionally it is much more.

A successful polyamorous relationship has no place for deceit, "protective" lies, or divisiveness. The cardinal words for one include "open" and "compassionate" and "loving." Samantha doesn't seem to get it.

The other option others here have not mentioned would be to make a contingent stand about Bill. Either she needs to learn how to do this in a loving way that takes into consideration your feelings and her presumed love for you or she should end things with Bill. Have her read The Ethical Slut. If you folks have the resources (and it sounds as though you do), see Dossie Easton in San Francisco for some therapeutic consultation. Or Kathy Labriola in Berkeley. They are long experienced in helping people navigate poly relationships.

If Samantha is as smart as you say, then she can rise to the occasion and have both Bill and you. But she is sabotaging what could be a good thing. She is trapped in her own compartmentalization. That strategy may have worked for her in other life endeavors, but it is failing her in this one.

Really, my best wishes for you and her. Do work on what works for both of you. And it does not sound as though this is working well now.

[Samanthasman]

Really Bill is not the problem here. Your relationship to Sam is.

This is largely true. The scenario that this is largely NRE working its way through is, I believe, still the most likely case. That Bill and she have earth-shattering sex is in and of itself wonderful. What I have not liked, as you have related the story of what has happened, comes down to three pieces:
1. I did not like the comment when you expressed your discomfort about Bill earlier of "Well, you are just going to have to live with it." That did not show consideration of your feelings or caring for you.
2. I do not like the lying about her having met with Bill because she didn't want to hurt her. She means, she didn't want the knowledge of her having more contact with him to hurt her.
3. I do not like hearing about her refusing to allow Bill and you to meet directly. This was a sign in my own prior marriage of trouble. If you want harmony in your life, there is no place for divisiveness. And Samantha's position on this one is extremely divisive.

I have a hunch that Samantha may love both Bill and you. But she lacks the honesty and candor to pull off a successful polyamorous relationship. I have no idea at all if Bill is playing a long game. And I don't think emotion coming into the relationship is inherently bad or even unexpectable. It is unreasonable to expect a woman to have sheet-ripping sex with a man several times a week and not develop loving feelings for the man. So, let's just assume she does.

What Samantha lacks, from my perspective, are the skills to make a poly relationship work. She is pretending this is a polysexual relationship when emotionally it is much more.

A successful polyamorous relationship has no place for deceit, "protective" lies, or divisiveness. The cardinal words for one include "open" and "compassionate" and "loving." Samantha doesn't seem to get it.

The other option others here have not mentioned would be to make a contingent stand about Bill. Either she needs to learn how to do this in a loving way that takes into consideration your feelings and her presumed love for you or she should end things with Bill. Have her read The Ethical Slut. If you folks have the resources (and it sounds as though you do), see Dossie Easton in San Francisco for some therapeutic consultation. Or Kathy Labriola in Berkeley. They are long experienced in helping people navigate poly relationships.

If Samantha is as smart as you say, then she can rise to the occasion and have both Bill and you. But she is sabotaging what could be a good thing. She is trapped in her own compartmentalization. That strategy may have worked for her in other life endeavors, but it is failing her in this one.

Really, my best wishes for you and her. Do work on what works for both of you. And it does not sound as though this is working well now.

Thank you Z, always good hearing from you!

She did read Ethical Slut. We did also actually contact Dossie Easton for consultation (I guess great minds think alike)... And she informed us she could not council us (even by phone) because we do not live in CA. Dossie Is very busy, but recommended some psychiatrist in the lifestyle where we live. I have mixed feelings about how helpful this might be, but it hopefully would not hurt.

Not sure that I would ever have an interest in a polyamorous relationship. I feel like I did not sign up for that.

I have been monitoring the NRE thing, and it just feels as if this relationship has grown and grown. I believe that is because he is her "type" on many levels. Still, they have not lived together or faced life's many challenges together, so a relationship can only be so deep at this stage.

Additionally, she is dating other guys, and in fact has a "marathon session" scheduled with Sid (after he's been away for 2 weks) this week. So I also wonder how deep the relationship can really be with Bill if she is still pursuing other men. It does feel like if she actually loved Bill, for example, she would not actively seek new relationship (and she is actively adding new relationships).

At this stage I do overall feel compelled to Kill Bill...

The next question is how to do this effectively? There are several options:

1) Reduce contact to 1 meeting a month. Limit time for anything but sex. Minimal if any other contact. Encourage other relationships. This could ease Bill out of the equation without requiring a formal and traumatic "break up"

2) Ask for a cease and desist by saying this is just not good for us.

3) Ask her to devise a break up plan (she has offered to do this)

[agawim]

Hi SM,

It is quite easy I would say, add another option.
Sit her down tell her you no longer want her to see or have contact with him in whatever way shape or form. There is no need to devise break up plans and such she can just tell him the truth which is that you cannot deal with their relationship and her first and foremost alliance is to you.

Simple and easy to understand for everyone, even if not everyone may like it.

Good luck to you both!

Wim

P.S. all the other options show how very submissive you actually feel in your relationship with your wife.

[rijubhai]

Even though Bill is apparently a great fuck, is it wise to spend non-sexual time or casual dates with a man who has "closed-door" attitude regarding his own wife? I mean, does she know about this arrangement? Is he cheating on her? I'd be wary about socialising with someone who is not transparent (and therefore untrustworthy) about themselves.

By the way this:

I know this is a fantasy of your husband, but these things never play out as people want them to...

is a huge red flag in my book. Don't just "kill" Bill but "kill" him with the Five-Point-Palm Exploding-Heart-Technique! His cock may be good for your wife, but his intentions aren't.

It's a good sign she's willing to drop him, but can you trust her to not see Bill behind your back with more "client lunches"?

[Samanthasman]

It's a good sign she's willing to drop him, but can you trust her to not see Bill behind your back with more "client lunches"?

I feel I can trust her... Yes, she got caught in a lie (disclosing a permitted activity), but it was a case of her not wanting to hurt my feelings or make a big deal out of something she saw as a small deal, sort of like the lie you tell your wife when you say "of course those pants don't make you look fat"

The lie pissed me off, and was wrong, but it fell far short of doing something not permitted.

She knows full well that seeing someone behind my back after agreeing not to would be way over the line, and I don't believe she would go there.

[Samanthasman]

Hi SM,

It is quite easy I would say, add another option.
Sit her down tell her you no longer want her to see or have contact with him in whatever way shape or form. There is no need to devise break up plans and such she can just tell him the truth which is that you cannot deal with their relationship and her first and foremost alliance is to you.

Simple and easy to understand for everyone, even if not everyone may like it.

Good luck to you both!

Wim

P.S. all the other options show how very submissive you actually feel in your relationship with your wife.

That's option #2

[inkofconfusion]

well from how I see it, if she's gonna lie about such a smal lthings, theres no reason why she wouldnt lie about bigger things. What i'd do is do tlel her that you would like her to take a break from Bill but she can of course still date and have sex with other guys, just not bill. Now I know this is subjective but I would get some trusted friends or ppl to keep an eye on your wife's activities, but only for the 1month of break. If after the proposed amount of break time and she has not lied to you, then I think it's safe to continue it or that there wasnt realyl a risk of Bill replacing you.

[Samanthasman]

Actually Sam's man I don't see any wide variation in advice. And I certainly don't see many people saying you are the problem.

Stop this relationship. It is not good for you. If it were, you wouldn't be here every second week asking about Bill. And that's no a criticism, it is just how it seems.

BTW, you mention the guest house and being locked and how he 'doesn't mind' her coming over to see you in between....it's your house and she is your wife. I can't believe or imagine a situation where a door in my own house could or would be locked and I was denied access. That just seems outrageous to me. For sure, if she wants her privacy you need to respect that (but you didn't, you listened outside), but to lock the door?

The door is locked to keep children and gardeners from wandering in. I have a key if I need in. Sorry for that confusion...

[SSQ]

Additionally, she is dating other guys, and in fact has a "marathon session" scheduled with Sid (after he's been away for 2 weks) this week. So I also wonder how deep the relationship can really be with Bill if she is still pursuing other men. It does feel like if she actually loved Bill, for example, she would not actively seek new relationship (and she is actively adding new relationships).

I think I've posted before that at least in my case, this is not true. *shrugs* I'm not monogamous with my husband and I'm in love with him. Why the hell would I be "monogamous" with a boyfriend if I can't even do it with my own husband? Even when I tried to do it because I thought I should (for some crazy reason), I realized I wasn't happy with it.

Certainly, I can have multiple loving relationships and still be desirous of casual sex. At this time, I have at least four casual partners in addition to my current boyfriend J (not sure whether to count the ONS?). And I'll happily post here that I love J and I'm in love with my husband. One of those casual partners I have been fucking for 2 1/2 years- there was just no chemistry for it to go further than that. And that's really what it comes down to.

I'm not going to give you any advice because you've gotten plenty, and I have gotten the impression that my comments don't interest you, frankly. But you keep hammering the point that you think that's why she isn't in love, and you could very easily be wrong.

[Samanthasman]

I'm always open to the possibility that I am wrong!!

If I were 100% certain I was always right, I would never post any questions!!

I do value the experience of those that have traveled the road ahead of me. Of course there are so many travelers here on so many different journeies that it's sometimes difficult to know who to follow.

I agree with a previous comments here, however, that on this issue there is a pretty good consensus...

[Samanthasman]

Any advice on exactly HOW to ask your wife to dump her boyfriend??

[inkofconfusion]

well just giving an opinion , not an advice, you ould just let her know that bill is threatening your marriage or that it does not look liek its going down the right path. but form what you described, if i were in your shoes it'd be hard to tell her that and then trust her with not going aroudn screwing bill behind your back. I may resort to "spying". I dont see anythign wrong after that because after all, to let ur wife out there is already a very big leap, and you have the right to know and to be made sure of through your own means in this kinda situation.
jsut my two cents. all the best man

[Wifesharing]

Advice on how to tell wife to dump her boyfriend?

I will keep this short.

Just tell her I thought about it and I an not comfortable with you seeing Bill I tried to be okay with it I am not. Then ask are to tell Bill that it is over and there should be no more contact.

Coming from my own marriage a few times my wife has had relationships with a few men I just could not get into. None of these came anywhere near close to the love connection your wife is having, these where more i just didn't like the guy for some reason and I told her and she always cuts them off right away. I am not friends with or even like all her lovers but sometimes I get a bad feeling about one and it is over. If your wife values your marriage first then it should not be a big deal cutting him off and it should be cold turkey not once a month and no break plan is needed.

[shesmine]

I think you do need to man up and put your foot down and say enough is enough. I also really hate to say it but I think she's just telling you what you want to hear. You say she's a strong and independent woman? From the way you describe her she's going to ultimately do what she wants to do. If I were you I'd quick dicking around and go straight to the source of the problem and have a little talk with him and tell him this shit isn't working out anymore.

Agreed...we all get off on our wives having sex with other men and the anxiety that goes with that, but when it comes down to it...if you're not going to be the "man o' the house" then someone else is, that's human nature...so either act like it and tell the guy to hit the road...or let him control your wife and marriage, if that's "your thing"....it happens to not be my thing, so I would have stopped this situation long ago personally...either way, good luck!

[Samanthasman]

I think you do need to man up and put your foot down and say enough is enough. I also really hate to say it but I think she's just telling you what you want to hear. You say she's a strong and independent woman? From the way you describe her she's going to ultimately do what she wants to do. If I were you I'd quick dicking around and go straight to the source of the problem and have a little talk with him and tell him this shit isn't working out anymore.

Agreed...we all get off on our wives having sex with other men and the anxiety that goes with that, but when it comes down to it...if you're not going to be the "man o' the house" then someone else is, that's human nature...so either act like it and tell the guy to hit the road...or let him control your wife and marriage, if that's "your thing"....it happens to not be my thing, so I would have stopped this situation long ago personally...either way, good luck!

Spoken like it's coming from someone named "she's mine" lol

Seriously, don't you think it's more reasonable and respectable to allow her to terminate things in her own way, using her own words. This is hard for everyone, I don't think going macho and trying to kick some guys ass is going to make anything easier here. I don't really know that anyone intended to do anything wrong. People get caught up in their own emotions - including me. I honestly feel bad for someone that is involved in a break up... It hurts...

[Wifesharing]

I do not think you should try to kick his ass, no need for that macho shit. I also agree with you, she should get to use her own words to tell him it is over, but she needs to do it fast not over time. I don't believe you should tell her or suggest what to say to him. Breaking up with him is something she has to do.

You should tell her that you tried to comes to terms with him , but that you cannot and you feel he is a threat to your marriage or at the very least a cause for fighting that you both do not need. Then tell her that you want her to break it off clean you don't want it to go on for days-months, that it would be nice if she could contact him and end it quick. Then you need to be prepared to be there for her losing any relationship is hard, and there will be grief. If she loves you and values your relationship she will get over it and respect your feelings, as you did hers. You have given this a honest effort with Bill that is all you could have done.

[Fotodom]

SM, this is a time of potentially great change; it's times like these that important things can be seen, and perhaps learned.
IMO, pay attention (as you have been no doubt) to Yourself as well as her, and him.
I think you may be about to get hit with a clue-by-4, myself.

[DaBolts]

You post on the HW side and everyone is telling you to Kill Bill but you keep making excuses as to why you should not. Maybe you are more of a Cuckold and you want your wife to be in total control.
You would get more support to keep Bill if you post on the Cuckold side.

[Happymcshove]

I think you do need to man up and put your foot down and say enough is enough. I also really hate to say it but I think she's just telling you what you want to hear. You say she's a strong and independent woman? From the way you describe her she's going to ultimately do what she wants to do. If I were you I'd quick dicking around and go straight to the source of the problem and have a little talk with him and tell him this shit isn't working out anymore.

Agreed...we all get off on our wives having sex with other men and the anxiety that goes with that, but when it comes down to it...if you're not going to be the "man o' the house" then someone else is, that's human nature...so either act like it and tell the guy to hit the road...or let him control your wife and marriage, if that's "your thing"....it happens to not be my thing, so I would have stopped this situation long ago personally...either way, good luck!

Spoken like it's coming from someone named "she's mine" lol

Seriously, don't you think it's more reasonable and respectable to allow her to terminate things in her own way, using her own words. This is hard for everyone, I don't think going macho and trying to kick some guys ass is going to make anything easier here. I don't really know that anyone intended to do anything wrong. People get caught up in their own emotions - including me. I honestly feel bad for someone that is involved in a break up... It hurts...

This is not a time for reasonable and respectful. Just tell her him or me you have 30 mins to make up your mind. It's pretty simple.

[Happymcshove]

Any advice on exactly HOW to ask your wife to dump her boyfriend??

LOL you don't ask you tell. You don't ask, "Honey would you mind picking up the cleaning today? I have to work."

You tell, "Honey pick up the laundry today please. I have to work."


Be the leader in the house.

Unless of course you want to be the submissive. In that case just let her be in charge.

[Mr Ares]

I'm going to give you the best advice possible. Advice that no one else has given you. Simply tell her that she must stop seeing him right now and then introduce her to her new man. Me. Problem solved.

In reality I can't answer this because I've not experienced your relationship with your wife. In my case, I would say to Ares, "That guys an ass, I don't trust him because (insert something here), I think he's full of shit about (insert something here) and I would really like it if you didn't see him anymore.

For us, this sexual lifestyle is about us, so she'll either comply, request further explanation, or give me a counter argument. This cycle continues until it's settled.

[Samanthasman]

... We had the talk. I told Samantha that I'm no longer ok with Bill. That I've been struggling with it for a while and that I have thought about it a lot. That I really wanted this to work out, but that no matter what we have tried and discussed, the relationship is on a trajectory to continue growing stronger and stronger, and at some point people will be in love and people will get hurt.

I told her that it is what it is - meaning that he is someone that she clicks with and is drawn to and I get that, but I also did not sign up for watching my wife fall for another man.

I tool her "I want you to terminate your relationship with Bill permanently."

She was sad, a little angry, a little depressed, and somewhat devastated. She said she needed time to process all of this. I asked her if she was mad at me, and she said she was mad at the situation.

Later she called and told Bill that I asked her to terminate the relationship. I don't know exactly what she said but she asked that I allow her some discretion in dealing with Bill. I believe she said she will call again tomorrow to explain further. She said to me that she might want to see him in person to explain things, and I told her I did not feel comfortable with that. I hate saying that.

I'm sure this whole process will take some time to process. I do feel empathy for her and even for Bill, even though I feel this was definitely the right move.

[PnG2010]

How she does it isn't near as important as her doing it promptly because you asked. If anyone is uncomfortable in any aspect of the "lifestyle" they have the right to pull the plug at any time. Rule #1: No means No. In a healthy relationship, this isn't a problem. You believe that you can pull that off. Do it NOW. ACs script is a great idea.

I read posts here all the time about wives getting involved emotionally. The craziest ones are the guys who enjoy that, but hey... we're all out on the edge here. I digress. Pardon me for my bluntness but emotions that go more than skin deep are strictly forbidden. I'd rather pull the plug on HWing and save the relationship than wank off while the relationship goes down the drain.

[shitbag]

I've lurked here for a long time and this is the first thread I've felt the need to post in. So for what its worth....

All the people you lean on here are telling you to cut this guy loose. Its's madness to keep asking advice then ignore it. I'd say ask her to do it and let her do it on her own terms. Give her a couple of days but let her do it however she sees fit. If she won't or can't you know what that means. I don't think it's your place to kill Bill you don't have a relationship with him. It is your place to define the boundries in your marriage.

However if she's been honest and the breakup goes as you both know it should there's nothing to stop you (as in both of you) bringing him back into your life. If she thinks she's letting him go its the most effective way to see where you really are on the hotwife journey.

All in all i'm just a random stranger on the internet but you did ask......

[Happymcshove]

... We had the talk. I told Samantha that I'm no longer ok with Bill. That I've been struggling with it for a while and that I have thought about it a lot. That I really wanted this to work out, but that no matter what we have tried and discussed, the relationship is on a trajectory to continue growing stronger and stronger, and at some point people will be in love and people will get hurt.

I told her that it is what it is - meaning that he is someone that she clicks with and is drawn to and I get that, but I also did not sign up for watching my wife fall for another man.

I tool her "I want you to terminate your relationship with Bill permanently."

She was sad, a little angry, a little depressed, and somewhat devastated. She said she needed time to process all of this. I asked her if she was mad at me, and she said she was mad at the situation.

Later she called and told Bill that I asked her to terminate the relationship. I don't know exactly what she said but she asked that I allow her some discretion in dealing with Bill. I believe she said she will call again tomorrow to explain further. She said to me that she might want to see him in person to explain things, and I told her I did not feel comfortable with that. I hate saying that.

I'm sure this whole process will take some time to process. I do feel empathy for her and even for Bill, even though I feel this was definitely the right move.

You really don't know how to put your foot down do you? You know how to tip toe around it.

Tell her what where when and how to do this. If you don't she could just take the relationship underground and have an affair. Just tell her to send him an email in front of you. Demand full transparency.

Why did you worry if she was mad at you?