Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[Samanthasman]

Major Change...

I talked to Bill. I did not really know what I was planning to say. It was about the most uncomfortable thing I've ever done. I did not really have an agenda, but I wanted to hear his side of the story. It was the first time we ever talked.

We talked for 45 minutes and it was a blur.. I introduced myself. He knew who I was. He was very respectful. The tone of the conversation was calm. I rehashed our history and told him I was upset with how things manifested. I told him I was pissed that boundaries were pushed and inappropriate exchanges were made and inappropriate discussions occurred, but mostly that this lead to some lying. I said that he was complicit in these activities. He immediately apologized. He said the first time that Samantha met him at the coffee shop, he was not immediately aware that I did not know. He said the second time she contacted him, he sort of asked "what are you doing" and questioned why she was doing this, but also exercised bad judgement in agreeing to see her. He apologized for that as well. Beyond that he claimed that he was respectful of my marriage and has no intention of bringing harm to it. He said he did not agree or at least remember anything he felt was inappropriate as far as conversations, etc. I asked him "was it not enough? Couldn't you just have sex with her and not push for a deeper relationship?". He said "Yes, I can do that. That is enough". He went on to say he went onto ashley madison to find a married woman that he could have a passionate affair with. He said "I like Samantha a lot - she is a very special lady and very special to me. I care about her. If we watch the video we made, it's obvious we care about each other and there is a lot of passion. However, I'm not looking to steal you wife or replace mine".

I told him my wife and family are the most important things in the world to me, and he told me that his wife and family were the most important to him. I told him that I understood that he was not really sleeping with his wife any more, and that seemed odd to me. Like a loveless marriage. He countered that his wife was a highly sexual women and for whatever reason, lost her sex drive. After that, they still love each other, but he seeks passion outside the marriage. He said both of his own parents died when he was young, and that he didn't really have parents growing up, and his little boy's only living relatives are his wife's family, and he would not do anything to disrupt his family unit. He said he wanted to grow old with his wife.

One of us suggested that we should have had a conversation months ago, and perhaps we would not have ended here.

I told him that I actually was starting to like him, but then lines were crossed and trust was broken. He said he understood. I said that Samantha and I needed to work on rebuilding our trust. He said he understood. I told him that I did not know if I would ever feel comfortable with Samantha talking to him or seeing him again, and he said that he would not do anything to harm my family, however that if he could never see Samantha again, he would be distraught for quite a while.

I'm sure there was much more we discussed, but this is the gist of it.

I told Samantha we had the conversation, and she said she actually felt a sense of relief. Not that anything had been resolved, but still relieved. I sort of got upset with her telling her "you should have let us do this months ago... maybe it would have helped... you can't keep compartmentalizing everything..."

It is odd how this did not really resolve anything, but it did make everyone feel better.

At this point the ball is in Samantha's court. I've asked her to double down on her commitment to being honest so we can start rebuilding the trust. I offered to forgive everything for a commitment to honesty. Oddly, he said "I'm not ready to do that... I still can't trust myself and I don't want to just say what you want me to say until I feel like I can really commit and mean it". At that point I said "Look, I will forgive any mistake you make... if you cheat on me but tell me, I will forgive, I'm not even asking you at this point to re-commit to not cheating, I'm asking you to recommit to not lying about it" and, she repeated that I was pressuring her to do something she's just not ready to do and that I need to giver her time.

[agawim]

At this point the ball is in Samantha's court. I've asked her to double down on her commitment to being honest so we can start rebuilding the trust. I offered to forgive everything for a commitment to honesty. Oddly, he said "I'm not ready to do that... I still can't trust myself and I don't want to just say what you want me to say until I feel like I can really commit and mean it". At that point I said "Look, I will forgive any mistake you make... if you cheat on me but tell me, I will forgive, I'm not even asking you at this point to re-commit to not cheating, I'm asking you to recommit to not lying about it" and, she repeated that I was pressuring her to do something she's just not ready to do and that I need to giver her time.

I am just pointing out this HUGE warning your wife is giving to you time and again.
I think the only thing this can possibly mean is the the obvious:I am not sure if I want to stay and thus commit to you and our relationship!

Whatever Bill said to you about what happened or did not happen, said or was not said etc. is quite worthless, You really think he would tell you if he was willing to leave his family for your wife? According to you he is this very smart and intelligent and and and.....those people are always 100% straightforward and surely they would not withhold anything to try and obtain their objective.

Please don't stick your head in the sand here SM.

Talking to Bill and such about how things could work out is really NOT a smart thing to do at this point in time, spend your time trying to restore/repair your relationship with Sam.

Get rid of Bill, you are letting your little head do to much thinking for you.

Try and remember this, Bill is NOT the ONLY great FB/BF out there for your wife. I am sure everytime you fell in love you were sure that it was unique and irreplacable.

Good luck SM!

[DaBolts]

Bill is worried you will pull the plug on him and he will say what he thinks you want to hear. He has no reason to be loyal or honest with you.
Do you want her to keep seeing him or do you want it to stop. Make up your mind.

[seductionrules]

I thought Bill's response was quite reasonable.

But the message was "I want to keep fucking your wife as long as it doesn't affect my wife and family"

Regards

Mr. SR

[WantMore]

I see ive hurt your feelings. Lol All I can say pal is when your wife dates rich men the stakes go up! No need to argue with you. Youve been one of the boys on this thread!
The simple matter is ive been around since the start of all this internet hotwife stuff. Ive never posted much but read alot. I cant remember all the changes thats been made thru the years because being a posting member really hasnt met much to me. Yaya I come in and tell it like it is off of the bat.

You know, in the old days there was a member with the name sweet cheeks. Anyone remeber him?

My wives current boyfriend is a head fracking geoligist. Works in North Dakota. A very talented man. When he comes home he grabs my wife and jets off to romantic places all over. We love it! Before this Challenger he took her to the Infinity dealer and bought her a new QX70 just so she didnt have to use her car to pick him up at the airport. They also use it to go skiing. He owns that one. Prior to this he drove home. He has a big bad ass dodge cummins. Its not girl friendly. Now he flys in because he has a reason to. He is a very secure guy. Doesnt want a girlfriend or wife. He wants a barbie doll slut!
Thats my wife. There relationship works because he only wants fun.

He bought her the Challenger because he wanted to give her a gift for all she does for him. You see she is also his maid. She takes care of his condo whiie he is gone. Keeps it clean and stocked with everything they need. She even has a credit card to pay for everything.

We play at a level far above most peoples thoughts.

I think its awesome cause finally she has found a man who is in our class. In the past with other guys, id fantasize about her going to mexico with a guy and id have to pay for it. Finally she found a man with his own means to properly entertain her! I f love it!

Yes there are boundries, but not many,

Im not a man who comes on and asks questions. Weve played a long time and finally I may begin to write about some of her ventures. So I decided to join again as a very annonymous member so I can post my stories one day when I get time.

So think what you want. I could give a rats ass! Im real, very real!

I seen SMs post and it reminded me what I went thru just about 20 years ago. So I decided to post my thoughts.

Yeah your right! No dude has bought her a car till this crazy dude came along! He has enabled us to again enjoy hotwifing! Why? Because he is about as crazy as we are!

Tata!

I'm trying to remember if I've ever read a post more condescending than this. Nope, now that I think of it this one wins, hands down.

Gosh, I wish we were all as awesome as you.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that some of the fairer sex haven't yet taken you to task for your apparently misogynistic views of women. For example, (some of your comments):

"You can make her bend to your needs"

"I really dont want to hear any sexist bullshit from other posters, but what the hell! lol My wife serves me. Shes not submissive but ive trained her to serve me."

"she bent to whatever in the hell I wanted. Yeah I played her in many ways to get my way. This has been years ago but still today that series of lessons I taught her still benifits me."

"Yeah I played hard ball with my wife to get my cake and eat it too!"


Oh well, it's an open forum and we are all welcome to say what we think (as I just did). One thing puzzles me, though. You say "Ive never posted much".

So what prompted you to post 10 times Monday, another 10 times Tuesday, and 7 times yesterday on this thread alone?

Because SM mirrors what ive been thru. It was this that hinged our future 20 some years ago. Ive never posted so much in my life. This post was me many years ago.

Im not going to argue pal. This thread isnt about me. You all can think what you want. I have given good advice to SM and its sure been the opposite of the majority. The majority says burn her at the stake! Sam will destroy you SM! etc. Wrong they will work thru this!

My wife is my soul mate pal. I run the show. Im not scared to say it! She gets off on pleasing me. Loyal and loving is her middle name. My middle name is proud and cocky!


Im not talking about myself anymore. Go ahead bash me into the ground. Im here to talk about SM. Leave my personal life out of it please. Has nothing to do with the thread!

Ive told you all enough to suffice you for now. One day when I write youll see wheve not been normal marriage partners. Never give up is our motto!

I have alot to say one day. Save your bashing till then please. Thank you!!

[MrsTruckstar]

Mr WantMore and Samanthasman

As a hooker of many years I am qualified to say - Wantmore's wife is receiving cash and kind for looking after the guys house and his 'affairs' while he is in your town. She gets all expenses paid holidays, cars and stuff and yet has no formal contract. She is your wife and a HW - My point Hooking by consent for 1 or 100 clients is still hooking and it is still HWing.

Samantha may go down that road, who knows? Some girls like that and if she is receiving stuff from Bill then it could be the same, it is not at the moment.

For CEO types, it is nice for them to have a 'Mistress' and a wife. There are two types of mistress, the ones you pay for and the ones you don't. The ones you don't pay for are the bringers of the most grief. The ones you pay for understand the arrangement. If it is a different girl every time it gets expensive. If it is the same one, you get a great standard and a known commodity. It is also more efficient.

Did I ever fuck any of my John's for free? Yes. For Cash? Absolutely. For things? Yes.

Samanthasman - : You say your wife is a Doctor, what is she a Doctor of? I think this is very important.

[Samanthasman]

Wantmore, and company, can you take your disagreement out to the hall please?

[Samanthasman]

She is SO going to fuck him while she is out of town.

I suppose that is possible, but it would require some logistical magic. She's not alone much of the time...

I've told her that I will forgive her any action, such as seeing or calling Bill against my wishes, if she is simply honest about it after the fact, but if she lies it will cause harm to the marriage.

I don't understand why she does not accept this offer, but she says that she is not ready, and needs time.

The one thing she adds is "The one thing I know for sure is that I love you and my family and I'm not going anywhere"

This whole situation makes me weak and miserable. Makes me hate myself and drive her crazy while pushing her away. I'm not currently the man she married - I'm a shell of that man.

[Samanthasman]

Please don't stick your head in the sand here SM.

Ummm... I feel pretty tuned into the situation...

[agawim]

I know you think that you are SM, that is why I am telling you it may very well be completely different. You wife's words tell a different story then you are hearing. (At least from what I have read here of course)

If I read and understood correctly you have given them free reigns and you would just like to be kept in the loop. As long as she will tell you about it, even after the fact.

If so you turned around 180 degrees, which is great if that is what you are happy with.

It seems your wife knows very well how to get what she wants from you, perhaps it is time to start a new topic about your life because it is obvious that you decided not to kill Bill after all so the question is now moot.

[Samanthasman]

I know you think that you are SM, that is why I am telling you it may very well be completely different. You wife's words tell a different story then you are hearing. (At least from what I have read here of course)

If I read and understood correctly you have given them free reigns and you would just like to be kept in the loop. As long as she will tell you about it, even after the fact.

If so you turned around 180 degrees, which is great if that is what you are happy with.

It seems your wife knows very well how to get what she wants from you, perhaps it is time to start a new topic about your life because it is obvious that you decided not to kill Bill after all so the question is now moot.

NOT CORRECT. No license has been issued. I've simply told her that if she violates my wishes, to please do it openly and not lie, and in exchange for that, I will offer forgiveness. I can and will forgive mistakes, but lies cut deeper.

[agawim]

Ow come on SM, you told her that you would forgive her anything that she chooses to do.....you are telling me that is not giving her permission?

If she goes and fucks Bill right now comes home and tells you about it tomorrow that is fine by you (since you will forgive her ANYTHING and she told you about it).

I don't understand why she does not accept this offer, but she says that she is not ready, and needs time.

I do understand, there are only a few reasons not to accept the offer. All of them empower her and not you.

I think most of us can see where this is headed if not disaster.

(Please keep in mind I am offering my opinion based on what you have posted here since you started this topic, I do not claim to know everything about your situation. In no way do I want to put either of you down and I hope for a good outcome whatever that might be)

[MrsTruckstar]

Samanthasman, really simple question, I have asked several times before.

What is she a doctor of? This is really important to me and my understanding of her.

[Samanthasman]

I'm curious what it means to ask her to "double down on her commitment to your marriage".

This whole thing has played out like this:

SM: hi, we are new and my wife is hot
- yes she is!
SM: started fucking other guys.
- awesome, congrats!
SM: questions on how to proceed. Want her to not focus on one guy
- here is some sound advice. Some good ground rules, etc.
SM: oh, we are good. No issues here!
- but you may want to list-
SM: I said we are good. And others here are telling me to let her do what she wants.
- they are cheerleaders.

SM: she seems to be infatuated with one guy, Bill. I don't get to watch.
- time to slow down
SM: Oh, but we are good. I get pics and video.
- here is some advi-
SM: we are fine. And she said she loves me. Told me I just need to relax and I am getting everything I wanted.
- you are being manipulated and need to slow down. Here is som-
SM: we had a serious talk and she doubled down on her commitment to me. We we are good.
- you still may want to slow down.
SM: others say I am fine.


It pretty much goes on like that for a while. Too much use of the little head and not the big one.

"double down on her commitment to your marriage" = start rebuilding the trust.

The rest of your summary is somewhat accurate but oversimplified. We've both gotten benefit from the forums as far as developing rules and guidelines, agreeing to pace, implementing check points that have in several cases resulted in course corrections or other actions.

A simpler but more accurate overview is that she started liking a guy more than I've been comfortable with, and we've both been adjusting back and forth to the strain that has caused.

[SSQ]

Sman- how exactly is she rebuilding trust if she won't even promise not to lie to you? That is a huge red flag.

I'd reiterate my suggestion for a lifestyle friendly counsellor. I think you guys really need an objective mediator to help you work through this.

[MrsTruckstar]

Sman- how exactly is she rebuilding trust if she won't even promise not to lie to you? That is a huge red flag.

I'd reiterate my suggestion for a lifestyle friendly counsellor. I think you guys really need an objective mediator to help you work through this.

Very sound advice, because currently since you had your first concerns at least on the weekend away, your personal management of this crisis is failing. Neutral honest advice, cheaper than a PI.

[Artimas]

They're both master manipulators. They got where they want to be by using you. She won't not lie to you, you've told her that she can, but only if she tells you after the fact. She's not committed anything to you, just talked you into a position that's no different than she was in before the thread started. I think you need to heed the advice to talk to a counselor/mediator and see an attorney. Bill's in a sexless marriage, therefore what's an incentive for him to stay. He says he will, but that's because they've decided that that's what you want to hear. They will be in bed on the business event, count on it. You may not hear about it until next Monday, but by then she will have fucked him eight or ten times against your wavering wishes. I'm, beginning to wonder if you just really want to be dominated by Sam, but just as you can't kill Bill you can't admit that you want to be a submissive.

[agawim]

I am not giving up on you yet SM,

If you get some people telling you you should go for it and a bunch of others telling you to hold on, slow down, take a better look at what is happening.

Which group should you be paying attention to if you want it all to work out in the long run you think?

You ask for help here, but as soon as someone points something(extremely obvious) out to you, you simply dismiss it.

In business you collect data, from that data you collect information you then make a decision based on all the information(Not only the information that is favourable to you at that time).

You are getting many warnings from many people that seem to want to help you in these difficult times, I am urging you to heed them. These people issue these warnings directly from information that you have supplied. As suggested before by SSQ an independant professional opinion can only be beneficial and it is money better spent then on a P.I.

I for one think that you are either going to be a full cuckold or divorced.

If you want to be cucked that is fine, it seems that could make Sam happy and cucks are very welcome here as well of course.

Hang in there man!

[Samanthasman]

I actually asked Samantha if she wanted to try the full cuckold model. She said "I don't think so - I don't think either of us would like that". The truth is that I don't really know what that means. Are cuckolds happy? I'm pretty sure she had no idea what it means. I just sort of told her "it means you are in control and basically do what you want and I goes along whether I like it or not... but I'll probably like it" I'm sure I have some of those tendencies, but hearing about Bi-sexual BJs, cages, and humiliation is a turn off to me.

[agawim]

Again.....see an independant professional before doing anything else, why are you so hell bent on a specific model? Models are just a simplified version of reality. Try and find out what you both actually want BEFORE doing anything else, so stop all communication with Bill focus on you two as a couple FIRST.

Her supposed inability to decide on anything or make any commitments to you. Is more effective then you can ever imagine, chip chip chip......

[Samanthasman]

Sman- how exactly is she rebuilding trust if she won't even promise not to lie to you? That is a huge red flag.

I'd reiterate my suggestion for a lifestyle friendly counsellor. I think you guys really need an objective mediator to help you work through this.

Agreed.

Her words are "When it comes to lying, I feel like an alcoholic that is just trying to get sober. I feel like making a commitment to not lie, when I know in my heart I may slip up as I did before, that such a commitment is too soon. I could tell you what you want to hear, but that is not constructive. I don't want to lie to you, but I don't yet trust myself not too. Give me time to work though this myself. Please don't pressure me until I'm ready"

I have researched a counsellor. I asked Samantha if she is open to that and she says "we really don't need that, but I'll do that if you want to and you think it will help". I did read a thread on here about this topic and unfortunately most of the people that sought counsellors seemed to think they caused more harm than good. Finding such a resource is difficult.

[agawim]

To be honest, even if the counsellor is not lifestyle friendly it is not about that now. Sure if you can find one that is lifestyle friendly that is great. Not trying to find one because of the chance that they are to closed minded is just plain stupid.

(Btw that friend I told you about did not think counselling was needed either (for him at least) he should not be pressured timewise either.....wife thinking it will all be ok......which I know for a fact that it will not be since HE told me himself)

Your relationship is in SERIOUS trouble, even if you keep denying it. Stop thinking in terms of models and lifestyles, start thinking about you as a couple first without all the other stuff.

[agawim]

Bill was never eliminated.

[bubbajack]

From these rather remarkable exchanges in which you indicate that you highly value honesty - highly enough that you offer her a category-changing concession that she may "cheat" in return for her agreeing to it, and she rejects that deal ( wha-a-a-a?) I think we can reasonably conclude two things: 1. The right to cheat and all the other things you have offered are not interesting enough to her to give you what you want; and 2. She may or may not really be seeking the right to lie to you, but she is definitely holding out.

I would not think retaining the right to lie is what she really is aiming at here. After all, what good is that? People don't need permission to lie -especially with regard to the "whole truth" leg of the oath witnesses in Court have to swear. Lying by omission happens every day and is damn difficult to avoid and to detect. The ancient conundrum about Cretans and liars comes to mind - What is after all either true or false about a statement which ends with " ... And I'm not lying"?

I think she wants something different from you and I think she's getting it: she wants you to suffer as you have made her suffer.

I don't say this is necessarily a conscious strategy on her part - I'm not sure how self-aware either one of you are - but she has to be feeling some little thrill of satisfaction seeing you a hollow-eyed shell of your usual self, eating your guts out, miserable. And who ever said or believed that married persons' relations can be summed up or accounted for in wholly rational terms? Lots of murky stuff in there, and why wouldn't there be? Look at what makes a marriage - two all too human humans!

I think this is either too fresh or past the point where mediation or cognitive therapy can do much to help. You are either going to get through somehow or split and no one, perhaps you two least of all, has the slightest idea which way you are headed as a couple.

[DaBolts]

Do you want Sam to keep seeing Bill? I dont mean next year or even next month but right now. How do you feel right now about this? Once again do you want to kill Bill?