Samantha Getting Started

[DaBolts]

Well...you know what they say about assuming :-)

The moment I hit submit I knew someone would post this.

[Samanthasman]

I have always seen watching as the ultimate in HWing.

I was not "insistent" early on, as I wanted her to ease into things with maximum confort. Ive given her a ton of latitude - solo's, trips, etc. Recently, I'm feeling disconnected somewhat, but I also fee like she has had so much... There is no reason why at this point we can't do watching! I guess I feel like it's self centered to not allow me to watch. Maybe that's too harsh, but that's how I feel. At this point I think it's totally reasonable and I don't really want to continue without at times being included in that way.

[zorro]

Has she ever tried Leprechans? She might like them ...
And she might love an MFM.

If she likes fucking Bill for hours, she should see what having Bill and you inside her at the same time feels like.

She doesn't know what she's missing.

And your wanting to watch is very reasonable. You agreed to let her play with Bill again despite your having some reservations. You gifted Bill to her for her happiness. She can let you watch or even play sometimes as a gift back, even if she has some initial reservations.

Compromise and good marriages are a two-way street.

[Iamtheman]

[quote="Samanthasman"]I have always seen watching as the ultimate in HWing.

I was not "insistent" early on, as I wanted her to ease into things with maximum confort. Ive given her a ton of latitude - solo's, trips, etc. Recently, I'm feeling disconnected somewhat, but I also fee like she has had so much... There is no reason why at this point we can't do watching! I guess I feel like it's self centered to not allow me to watch. Maybe that's too harsh, but that's how I feel. At this point I think it's totally reasonable and I don't really want to continue without at times being included in that way.[/quote]

I don't think your request is unreasonable, and I hope you're not taking my posts as discouraging. There is a lot of negativity towards Samantha in this thread. Maybe some justified, but I just don't see it being productive towards you moving forward. She put an offer on the table yesterday. Perhaps it was a bluff. Why didn't you take the opportunity to call Bill? What happened to cause that to stall? I think the door is open and she knows it's the only way ahead. You may be talking this through a little to much, rather than just taking the step that she offered up.

Through all of this back and forth, have you stopped her HWing? Or is she still just as active? If so, that seems like a mixed signal.

[SmilingHusband]

I think persistence, understanding, and balance gets everyone to a place where they have something to enjoy.

that implies he's got a willing 50-50 partner to talk to. clearly he does not.

she's selfish and uncompromising. she's also been caught red-handed in lies and deceit. there is no understanding and balance here.

[Samanthasman]

I have always seen watching as the ultimate in HWing.

I was not "insistent" early on, as I wanted her to ease into things with maximum confort. Ive given her a ton of latitude - solo's, trips, etc. Recently, I'm feeling disconnected somewhat, but I also fee like she has had so much... There is no reason why at this point we can't do watching! I guess I feel like it's self centered to not allow me to watch. Maybe that's too harsh, but that's how I feel. At this point I think it's totally reasonable and I don't really want to continue without at times being included in that way.

I don't think your request is unreasonable, and I hope you're not taking my posts as discouraging. There is a lot of negativity towards Samantha in this thread. Maybe some justified, but I just don't see it being productive towards you moving forward. She put an offer on the table yesterday. Perhaps it was a bluff. Why didn't you take the opportunity to call Bill? What happened to cause that to stall? I think the door is open and she knows it's the only way ahead. You may be talking this through a little to much, rather than just taking the step that she offered up.

Through all of this back and forth, have you stopped her HWing? Or is she still just as active? If so, that seems like a mixed signal.

I am more than prepared to call Bill, however, I feel like we are not ready yet. I basically said to Samantha - "if I call Bill, he is going to then call you, so what are you going to say?", and she said "I'm going to probably tell him I don't want you to watch but you are insisting".

Well, needless to say, if Bill called Samantha and she said "I don't want to be watched", my guess is that he is not going to want to talk her into something she is not interested in, and thus the idea is going nowhere, and such a conversation would be counter-productive.

The thing is - she has done a 3-way in a past relationship. I've done an MFM in a past relationship. She even LET ME WATCH her and her BF together 8 years ago (from the window), and always let me listen on the phone!!

She just has some block when it comes to Bill and now.

So, Bill, the hottest lover she's ever had, the guy that can give her 50+ orgasms a night, is on indefinite hold. The more she resists making me a part of it, the more I feel disconnected, dissapointed, and frankly disinterested in bringing him back again.

Just like before - we booted Bill... I told her "Let me talk to him". She resisted. I finally talked to him - and it was totally for her benefit. The result is that we brought Bill back. She's seen him several more times. The last time was the single greatest sexual experience of her entire life. She's reached a new sexual high. I've come to terms with my jealousy and insecurities and feel better and more confident than ever. She'd like to see Bill more often. I'm feeling more relaxed and completely supportive of that, but I'd like to be more involved - i.e. watching at times.

She does not want to do that. So, now, we are about to kick Bill back to the curb again because I am not interested in going forward without being involved (watching at times) and she is not interested in making me more involved. We are at an impasse.

I guess it goes back to our ENTJ personality types - we both want all or nothing. ENTJs are rare and it's even more rare for two to marry. It's created an amazing life and lifestyle, and a strong bond between us, but it also means we both have strong personalities when it comes to getting what we want.


I suspect, we will eventually have me watch - with Bill or someone else long after Bill is gone and we have eventually recovered from that loss. Its very important to me. She will feel very awkward and uncomfortable going into it, and so will I and the lover. New experiences are uncomfortable - but you never reach new levels doing the same thing, you have to get outside of your comfort zone from time to time. After the sex starts, she will start to relax and enjoy, and so will I and so will the lover. After it's over she will see the huge smile on my face and realize how happy she's made me, and how it has brought us closer together, and that will feel good to her. It will open the door for more experiences for everyone. She will be the primary beneficiary.

[Samanthasman]

This has gone beyond F.U.B.A.R!...I.M.H.O.

Two words: Counseling and Boundaries.

Thanks for your input... It's a little negative, although not over the line, like some...

I sometimes wonder if I am wasting my time posting my story here. I wonder if I should have taken a totally different approach. I could have just posted a series of very hot stories of our sexual exploits. Guys she's fucking. The public BJ she gave the guy she just met in the hotel lobby. The painted-on dress that is hotter than anything I've ever seen in playboy. Hot XXX pics and texts I have received. Descriptions of super white-hot XXX videos, more passionate than any porn you can find online. And so forth. There are many threads like that, and I'm sure mine would be hotter and more exciting than most. I'd be fun to just get feedback from that. We have indeed had the most exciting sexual adventure of our lives these last several months. It's been awesome!

Instead, I've used this forum to open the curtain and exposed my true feelings, insecurities, etc. I've focused on not just our sexual highs, but especially on the bumps we've hit along the way. I guess I feel like getting feedback on the positive is nice, but not really useful. I wanted to do something different with my thread. Getting feedback on the problems, and exposing the problems and true feelings, can actually help solve the problems and thus that feedback and discussion is actually more valuable and interesting, IMHO.

My result has been some really good advice. I've also made some friends here and met some people I respect and have learned from.

Of course I've also been rewarded with a lot of comments like "you're fucked dude... you need to see a marriage councilor... you are headed for divorce... your are a fake... etc.". Some people have been so angry, rude, or nasty that I have invited them to not post to my threads anymore.

I have encouraged my wife, Samantha, to post here also, and she has done so. However, after reading though this forum pretty extensively, she more or less concluded that although there are many great people here, this is also a cesspool of too many negative people and she's not sure she wants to participate.


I'm not sure there is anything that can be done to change any of this. It's an anonymous internet forum, after all.
I guess I'd like to see the moderators help change the culture here. Perhaps they could start having out tickets for offenses - three strikes and you are out! That would be awesome! But then my guess is that the moderators are already volunteers that are doing a remarkable amount of work for very little reward and their job is already more than tough enough.

[Iamtheman]

So, where are you guys now? It sounds like Bill is about to get a call saying that it's over...unless Samantha agrees to you watching. Your last post almost seems resigned to the fact that she won't. Is all of the HWing on hold until she can find her way to a compromise? I'm confused by the message being sent if that isn't the case. If there is really no talks for compromise, why not take a break and regroup with clearer expectations? If neither of you can agree on those. Maybe it's time for a long break.

[Iamtheman]

I sometimes wonder if I am wasting my time posting my story here. I wonder if I should have taken a totally different approach. I could have just posted a series of very hot stories of our sexual exploits. Guys she's fucking. The public BJ she gave the guy she just met in the hotel lobby. The painted-on dress that is hotter than anything I've ever seen in playboy. Hot XXX pics and texts I have received. Descriptions of super white-hot XXX videos, more passionate than any porn you can find online. And so forth. There are many threads like that, and I'm sure mine would be hotter and more exciting than most. I'd be fun to just get feedback from that. We have indeed had the most exciting sexual adventure of our lives these last several months. It's been awesome!

Tease.

[Samanthasman]

I just think the idea of wearing her down until she relents and fucks someone in front of you, whether it be Bill or someone else, will ultimately do more harm than good. She may end up enjoying herself in the moment, but she may also end up resenting you for making her do something she's not comfortable doing. I think you two need to work on finding that compromise you keep mentioning. Because, right now, you're right. Neither of you seem to be willing to compromise.

Can she involve you more without doing something she's not comfortable doing, and on a more consistent basis? And can you be happy without being physically involved, whether that be viewing live or participating? If either answer is no, I can't see this arrangement working out.

Yes, excellent points.

Samantha and I have actually talked about exactly this - if I get my way but she is not happy or is resentful, then we both lose.

Whenever a couple is at an impasse, it is a tricky situation. There have been many times in our lives together where we have had to make decisions on which direction to go and sometimes she has been right and sometimes I have. I'll even admit that she's right more than I am. Most of the time, if we reach an impasse, neither of us are 100% certain about which direction to take, and probably, like other couples, whomever feels the most strongly about it, wins.

In this situation, I feel very strongly about it, and I'm very confident that I'm right. It feels to me exactly like when I wanted to talk to her BF, Bill. She resisted. She felt uncomfortable. I pushed her - outside of her comfort zone - and ultimately talked to him. It was a painful struggle to get there, but, she was delighted with the end results - as it opened the door to bringing him back, made me feel more comfortable and got me past some jealousy, and brought her to new sexual highs.

Now, she feels strongly that she does not want this (me watching). I feel VERY strongly that I do. She feels not certain it is a good idea. I feel VERY certain that it is. Yes, I could be wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

Years ago, I did watch and there were no negative results at all. She was excited. I was excited. It brought us closer together.

If there is something "unique" about her relationship with Bill that makes her specifically not want to bring me into that world, then I'd say the relationship is inappropriate and we need to kill Bill once and for all. However, I don't think that's the case at all. I'm pretty darn sure that if she opened her mind to the possibility of embracing this, and went outside of her comfort zone to make this happen... If she approached this by asking "how can I use this to make my husband happy, to make this an "us" activity, while bringing us closer together?" the result would be a very happy husband, and very happy boyfriend, and a shitload of white-hot sex, including new sexual highs unimagined fulfillment of her sexual potential. It's a win-win-win.

[Samanthasman]

So, where are you guys now? It sounds like Bill is about to get a call saying that it's over...unless Samantha agrees to you watching. Your last post almost seems resigned to the fact that she won't. Is all of the HWing on hold until she can find her way to a compromise? I'm confused by the message being sent if that isn't the case. If there is really no talks for compromise, why not take a break and regroup with clearer expectations? If neither of you can agree on those. Maybe it's time for a long break.

We are in a a holding pattern with Bill. She does have a date. out of town, with a new guy next week. We are both excited about that potential relationship in another city she does business in regularly.

Yes, we certainly can take another break, and regroup. We are both open to that. I really don't want to do that because if we kick Bill to the curb, again, at some point he's gonna say "I'm out of here" and find someone else. She will be sad. I will be sad. Bill will be sad. That's a huge and unnecessary loss to everyone.

[SmilingHusband]

If there is something "unique" about her relationship with Bill that makes her specifically not want to bring me into that world, then I'd say the relationship is inappropriate and we need to kill Bill once and for all.

Detective SH thinks this is exactly the issue. nothing else makes sense......

there's another HW around here, not verified though, who has a similar hang up. (Mrs. Bee I think?). she would not let her husband watch her and "N" (or whoever it was). Obvious bad sign.

[SSQ]

It's funny. I was about to make a post here, from the perspective of a hotwife who would not be thrilled if her husband wanted to watch.

Then I realized that I fuck in public semi frequently, either at bdsm parties or swing clubs. I love being watched. It's an issue specifically with H. Fortunately he has no desire to watch me, and I am definitely open to MFM or FMF with him or whatnot- just the watching bothers me.

Hmm. Something I need to think about.

[Iamtheman]

We are in a a holding pattern with Bill. She does have a date. out of town, with a new guy next week. We are both excited about that potential relationship in another city she does business in regularly.

Yes, we certainly can take another break, and regroup. We are both open to that. I really don't want to do that because if we kick Bill to the curb, again, at some point he's gonna say "I'm out of here" and find someone else. She will be sad. I will be sad. Bill will be sad. That's a huge and unnecessary loss to everyone.

Your response surprised me. I get this strange picture of the two of you arguing over watching activities with Bill while she's on ashleymadison.com setting up a new date that you're excited about. A date that will likely lead to activities that you won't be watching. So, the excitement about the date has me scratching my head.

If Bill exits, will she continue with her other BFs or is watching the line in the sand? It sounds like you're encouraging her to keep dating as is but with Bill, you need to watch. I know you've said that isn't the case, it's not just Bill - you want to watch, period. Maybe I'm not hearing the whole conversation but I feel like there are mixed messages here.

[SmilingHusband]

Bill's getting action from Sam regardless. I would not rule that out unless I had her surveilled 24/7. That's why she can play all or nothing, with the brinkmanship, etc.

weakness has already been displayed. hard to walk that back.

[Samanthasman]

It's funny. I was about to make a post here, from the perspective of a hotwife who would not be thrilled if her husband wanted to watch.

Then I realized that I fuck in public semi frequently, either at bdsm parties or swing clubs. I love being watched. It's an issue specifically with H. Fortunately he has no desire to watch me, and I am definitely open to MFM or FMF with him or whatnot- just the watching bothers me.

Hmm. Something I need to think about.

I offered an MFM and that's really out of the question. Watching is something less than an MFM.

The issue is that she "compartmentalizes" her dates. The other issue is that she wants more time with Bill and I feel disconnected from that relationship. On her last two dates I was not even excited. After her last date with bill I didn't even care if we reclaimed.

Watching is my ultimate fantasy... I want it. We've done it before and she even enjoyed it. Not sure what the hang up is this time around. I think she's just a little nervous - but that's normal.

[Iamtheman]

It's funny. I was about to make a post here, from the perspective of a hotwife who would not be thrilled if her husband wanted to watch.

Then I realized that I fuck in public semi frequently, either at bdsm parties or swing clubs. I love being watched. It's an issue specifically with H. Fortunately he has no desire to watch me, and I am definitely open to MFM or FMF with him or whatnot- just the watching bothers me.

Hmm. Something I need to think about.

I offered an MFM and that's really out of the question. Watching is something less than an MFM.

The issue is that she "compartmentalizes" her dates. The other issue is that she wants more time with Bill and I feel disconnected from that relationship. On her last two dates I was not even excited. After her last date with bill I didn't even care if we reclaimed.

Watching is my ultimate fantasy... I want it. We've done it before and she even enjoyed it. Not sure what the hang up is this time around. I think she's just a little nervous - but that's normal.

Seriously SM. Your determination is epic. Even in the face of the last few posts saying to get out and kill bill, I can tell you're not giving up on this.

Tell Sam that you're calling Bill. The three of you should discuss it and come to an agreement. If that doesn't lead to something that everyone is okay with...send Bill on his way. Take a break from HWing. Enjoy all the time you just got back in your day from not posting to the forum

[Samanthasman]

If there is something "unique" about her relationship with Bill that makes her specifically not want to bring me into that world, then I'd say the relationship is inappropriate and we need to kill Bill once and for all.

Detective SH thinks this is exactly the issue. nothing else makes sense.....

I think you are both right on this. Indeed, nothing else really makes sense.

Her unwillingness to let you watch because she is not "comfortable" with it just seems like a pretty lame excuse. There has to be a deeper--much deeper--reason, and I think it is all related to Bill.

Her unwillingness to let you watch her with anyone else seems most likely because that would be an admission by her that it IS all related to Bill.

SM, so far it appears to me that the "balance" someone referred to above is currently at about 90% for her and 10% for you. You, understandably, are not happy with that and I certainly don't blame you.

I'm one of those guys who has called her selfish, and I'm not going to back off of that. But I am becoming pretty convinced that she does not actually want to be selfish. She is just so infatuated with Bill that she is acting that way even though she doesn't want to be.

The bottom line is that you are not happy with the 90-10 balance, and are never going to be. And she is unwilling to change her mind even though surely she must know in her heart that she is being very unfair to you.

Therefore, I am strongly of the opinion that you must kill Bill. And if that means the end of hotwifing then so be it. Your marriage is too important to continue this way.

If she won't continue unless Bill is included, then take a break. Take a long break.

I want so much for this to work out for both of you (contrary to what she might think, I really do like her). But this is headed for disaster and IMHO Bill is the reason.

I appreciate the post. Your insight and observations have been frequently helpful.

Samantha has been very honest about being very infatuated with Bill. She does not hide these feelings. However I have grown increasingly comfortable that although he is awesome, he will never be the soulmate to her that I am. This makes me more comfortable with things.

Yes, indeed, she may not want to "mix our worlds". I think this issue is naturally coming to a head however, because I'm not feeling it with Bill the way it is now, so something is going to have to change, or we will naturally move on.

What's odd is that Samantha has also hinted that maybe we should just move on to other guys instead of me pushing to watch her and Bill. To that I say "so, you are so opposed to me watching Bill that you would rather dump him than have me watch you with him?? That makes no sense!" But, that may be how she feels. If it's just a bluff, it's not really going to do much because although I do really want her to keep seeing Bill, the fact is that I no longer get sexually excited with the current situation - so there is not much interest left on my side for being open to seeing Bill going forward, unless I'm involved more...

[SmilingHusband]

that's because she will continue to see him, regardless.

he will never be the soulmate to her that I am

sorry man, I don't see that, AT ALL. a "soulmate" would swallow her stupid bullshit, and let you enjoy watching, or god forbid!, an MFM. That's what LOVING wives do here on OHW.


she's selfish, shallow, and, for you, dangerous.

I'm gonna go out there and say it; I don't like this woman. Can't say I've felt that about too many other HW's here, verified or not.

not sure why you even do this anymore. I feel for you man.....

I am so glad it ain't me.....

[Samanthasman]

that's because she will continue to see him, regardless.

he will never be the soulmate to her that I am

sorry man, I don't see that, AT ALL. a "soulmate" would swallow her stupid bullshit, and let you enjoy watching, or god forbid!, an MFM. That's what LOVING wives do here on OHW.


she's selfish, shallow, and, for you, dangerous.

I'm gonna go out there and say it; I don't like this woman. Can't say I've felt that about too many other HW's here, verified or not.

not sure why you even do this anymore. I feel for you man.....

I am so glad it ain't me.....

I think you are being a little harsh. Just in a prior post SSQ says "I don't like to be watched". I don't think it's fair to say someone is a bad wife if they don't want to be watched - even though I do agree with you that I believe a spouse makes adjustments to makes the other spouse happy.

I think one thing we have certainly both learned on here is that there is no "one size fits all model" for doing this.

I too have told my wife that I believe she is being "selfish" which is a harsh word - much harsher that the language I usually use. She admits that she wants what she wants and has her own perspective that she IS involving me in ways that she feels comfortable - like making videos. We have a disagreement.

I'm being pretty open about letter the audience here "see behind the curtains" how two people deal with a frank disagreement. I think most people would not open them selves up like I have and be this transparent about the true feelings and discussions behinds the scenes.

We'll see how this all rolls out.

I don't believe she will cheat on me if we stop Bill again. I mean she could get away with it once or twice, but would definitely get caught at some point and that would be a major blow to our marriage. She could just run off with him now if that is what she wanted, but it is not, buy a long stretch. She does not want a new husband. She just wants to keep having fun...and is having a difficult time doing so in a way that makes everyone happy...

[SmilingHusband]

best of luck brother....

(and I mean that)

[mundyman]

SSQ- if I may be so bold to ask; from the female perspective why is it hard for you to be watched by your husband but easier for you to have public or semi public sex. Is it the anonymity and lack of intimate atmosphere at the places you have sex, compared to the intimacy of having your most valued and intimate partner, your husband present?
I'm interested in the female perspective as I Trudy value your insights and experiences.

[mopacpower]

She has made you videos before, right? Why not watch her with cameras but you are in a different room? That way you can watch and she won't fell spyed on.

[WantMore]

She has made you videos before, right? Why not watch her with cameras but you are in a different room? That way you can watch and she won't fell spyed on.

Ive done that and its pretty dam hot! Had 2 cams wired to two monitors in the next room. Its actually a better view than watching because one camera was placed sorta behind them and the other in front. I could see more. The noises from there room made the monitor views hot, hot!

[Samanthasman]

She has made you videos before, right? Why not watch her with cameras but you are in a different room? That way you can watch and she won't fell spyed on.

I offered this, and she said she would feel spied on and rejected the idea.

Would it be reasonable to say "do whatever you want as long as you allow a video camera in the room? Or, is privacy something that is reasonable?

Also, only watching on video feels slightly creepy to me. I want to at least on e in a while be more connected to the activity.