Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[Samanthasman]

I'm not justifying her lies to her husband - but it's so easy to fall into that kind of a situation when the circumstances make it so easy (i.e., the husband asking the wife to be a HotWife). It's okay for folks to advise SM what to do, it's not okay to bash somebody up (especially his wife). And nobody tells me to "shut that shit down". You need to watch your language on this forum.

You were justifying it and it's crap.

Can I say crap?

Please stop posting on my threads. I've asked you many times!

[Jdotswift]

I have to disagree with folks who are saying kick Samantha to the curb. There's no excuse for lying to your spouse, but calling for divorce over a series of phone calls is an overreaction, even when it involves phone calls to an (ex)lover. If she was having sex with him and lying about it then, yes, go for the divorce. Even then, though, I would say see a marriage counsellor before making out the papers.

I feel strongly that trust can be rebuilt in a relationship as long as both people really commit to rebuilding it. So far, Samantha hasn't, but this whole thread is only six weeks old. That's not very long at all and SM wasn't even sure what he wanted to do when he started the thread.

FWIW, I don't think "trust but verify" helps the process of rebuilding trust in a relationship. I've been down that road (as the one verifying) and didn't find it helpful; it just made me paranoid. It's not something I would recommend to anyone or do again myself.

[zorro]

Yes, divorce is definitely not on the table. Sam compartmentalizes and has trouble stopping. When you consider what her lying may be a symptom of, the most likely explanation is compartmentalization. I don't think compartmentalization is very compatible with a happy HW relationship. But keeping her discomfort with SM's knowing what she experiences with Bill to herself is not serving her well. She has to extend a chance to SM so as to trust him to accept her as she truly is when she is with Bill.

The answer is for her to learn to trust SM with knowledge of her true emotions so she feels no need to compartmentalize. HW is a very intimate matter. Compartmentalization is the opposition of intimacy.

Remember the old adage: "Intimacy = Into Me You See." Compartmentalization is a form of hiding. And as was mentioned her, it leaves the one on the outside wondering what is being hidden.

[Samanthasman]

I have to disagree with folks who are saying kick Samantha to the curb. There's no excuse for lying to your spouse, but calling for divorce over a series of phone calls is an overreaction, even when it involves phone calls to an (ex)lover. If she was having sex with him and lying about it then, yes, go for the divorce. Even then, though, I would say see a marriage counsellor before making out the papers.

I feel strongly that trust can be rebuilt in a relationship as long as both people really commit to rebuilding it. So far, Samantha hasn't, but this whole thread is only six weeks old. That's not very long at all and SM wasn't even sure what he wanted to do when he started the thread.

FWIW, I don't think "trust but verify" helps the process of rebuilding trust in a relationship. I've been down that road (as the one verifying) and didn't find it helpful; it just made me paranoid. It's not something I would recommend to anyone or do again myself.

If you don't "trust but verify", what do you do??? Not verify and imagine that everything is good, or not trust and imagine that everything is bad??? I'm not sure what other approach to use??

Trust but verify is not a bad way to rebuild. Sam knows that she fucked up (hurt me and her relationship with Bill) and she knows that she will (statistically speaking) get caught at some point if she fucks up again. Why not have that extra little check and balance?

[Artimas]

And what are the consequences if she does see Bill, or just contacts him, again? Are there any that you'll not bend or be swayed from? She's manipulated you quite handily to this point.

[Samanthasman]

And what are the consequences if she does see Bill, or just contacts him, again? Are there any that you'll not bend or be swayed from? She's manipulated you quite handily to this point.

I would definately go and have a long talk with Bill's wife. Without hesitation. Then perhaps Bill's employers to ask them to see if they can encourage him to stop taking off for hours a week in the middle of the day like he has been.... Then ratchet it up from there...

[SmilingHusband]

The Nuclear Option.

love it!!!!!!!!!!

[SSQ]

Those are consequences for Bill, not for Samantha. This is between you and her. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to boil his bunny. Samantha is the one who is married to you and has made commitments to you.

IMO, while I could still love someone, if I couldn't trust them, then it's over. The love isn't relevant. My husband and I at times have both said terrible things to each other. We've both pushed boundaries that made the other person uncomfortable. But at least we've always been up front and honest about it, and I suspect that's a huge reason why we have made this lifestyle work despite the challenges we've experienced as our wants and needs evolve.

It would kill me that she lied to your face and seemingly feels no remorse for it, since she was just trying to prevent herself from being inconvenienced.

[Samanthasman]

Those are consequences for Bill, not for Samantha. This is between you and her. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to boil his bunny. Samantha is the one who is married to you and has made commitments to you.

IMO, while I could still love someone, if I couldn't trust them, then it's over. The love isn't relevant. My husband and I at times have both said terrible things to each other. We've both pushed boundaries that made the other person uncomfortable. But at least we've always been up front and honest about it, and I suspect that's a huge reason why we have made this lifestyle work despite the challenges we've experienced as our wants and needs evolve.

It would kill me that she lied to your face and seemingly feels no remorse for it, since she was just trying to prevent herself from being inconvenienced.

Samantha does not want to ruin his life. It would be a ramification to both of them. But, I'm not doing it out of vengeance. I told him as a preventative measure, plus I do believe that getting his wife to put a leash on him would be helpful.

Right now, I'm thinking this won't be necessary.

As for the trust thing... We are far from the first couple to ever have gone through something that has shaken the trust. Cheating is VERY common and this was not cheating - it was sort of pre-cheating, not that that justifies anything. My point is that we both believe the trust can be rebuilt and want to work towards that...

[Artimas]

To rephrase, what are consequences for Sam, and for yourself when she continues the AFFAIR with Bill.

[traycir]

[
[/quote]

There is plenty of love in the marriage. We just have had this "alternate reality second life", were strange things happened. I was frustrated that this second world was so compartmentalized from the first, but for Samantha that's how she wanted it. Her reaction when I went ballistic was "oh baby - don't over react... This is not a big deal... Don't even joke about divorce"![/quote]


Me thinks the lady doth protest too much, and to be honest so do you. No offense, I know it is hard to see when you are in the middle of things , but do you really really believe that? Your wife has lied to you multiple times about Bill, and now when you call her on it and make her end it she tries to turn it around. After all, that's what all the "I did things for you I never would have done" is, not to mention the I only lied to avoid you interrogating me thing is. She is either trying to fool herself and you or make you feel guilty - or both. And your reaction shows it works, you do feel kind of guilty. As many people here have noted, counseling might not be a bad idea.

But, I am curious about something, did Samantha call Bill, or did Bill call Samantha? Also, how do you know the call was about managing you?
I think after she went through the whole you can trust me ting there are three reasons for her to spend hours on the phone with Bill.
The first is, to use the vernacular, "she's playin you, my brother"; that is she never intended to be honest with you about this, she just got caught fast. If that's the case, well your marriage really does have problems.
The second is she really can't help herself. She is so stuck on this guy, and knows she shouldn't be, that she just can't leave it alone.
If that is the case, then maybe she needs some individual counseling.
The third is Bill himself. I have been rather surprised by the good opinion you largely seem to have of this man who is knowingly fucking up your relationship with your wife. Oh, I know he has feelings for her, he makes her feel so good, etc, but what is right is right, and as near as I can tell from your posts, there hasn't been much right about Bill for a while. If he is actively pursuing her, calling when he knows he shouldn't, perhaps suggesting that they "manage" you, then he is the problem. I'm sure it would help Samantha if he were to tell her that they can't do this anymore. By the same token if he keeps on trying to keep her it is going to be extremely difficult for her to walk away. The truth is this is not, as some suggest between a husband and wife. For good or evil a third person is in this relationship, which is sort of the problem. Bill could go a looooong way to ending the problem - if he is willing to.

[SSQ]

Those are consequences for Bill, not for Samantha. This is between you and her. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to boil his bunny. Samantha is the one who is married to you and has made commitments to you.

IMO, while I could still love someone, if I couldn't trust them, then it's over. The love isn't relevant. My husband and I at times have both said terrible things to each other. We've both pushed boundaries that made the other person uncomfortable. But at least we've always been up front and honest about it, and I suspect that's a huge reason why we have made this lifestyle work despite the challenges we've experienced as our wants and needs evolve.

It would kill me that she lied to your face and seemingly feels no remorse for it, since she was just trying to prevent herself from being inconvenienced.

Samantha does not want to ruin his life. It would be a ramification to both of them. But, I'm not doing it out of vengeance. I told him as a preventative measure, plus I do believe that getting his wife to put a leash on him would be helpful.

Right now, I'm thinking this won't be necessary.

As for the trust thing... We are far from the first couple to ever have gone through something that has shaken the trust. Cheating is VERY common and this was not cheating - it was sort of pre-cheating, not that that justifies anything. My point is that we both believe the trust can be rebuilt and want to work towards that...

My point is, that unless you're a total asshole, his marriage is none of your business. I know you're upset, but I really can't believe you'd consider something like that. Your problem is with Samantha. If you think you need to try and control someone else to fix problems in your relationship, that should be showing you how serious this is.

[Marc]

I have to disagree with folks who are saying kick Samantha to the curb. There's no excuse for lying to your spouse, but calling for divorce over a series of phone calls is an overreaction, even when it involves phone calls to an (ex)lover. If she was having sex with him and lying about it then, yes, go for the divorce. Even then, though, I would say see a marriage counsellor before making out the papers.

I feel strongly that trust can be rebuilt in a relationship as long as both people really commit to rebuilding it. So far, Samantha hasn't, but this whole thread is only six weeks old. That's not very long at all and SM wasn't even sure what he wanted to do when he started the thread.

FWIW, I don't think "trust but verify" helps the process of rebuilding trust in a relationship. I've been down that road (as the one verifying) and didn't find it helpful; it just made me paranoid. It's not something I would recommend to anyone or do again myself.

If you don't "trust but verify", what do you do??? Not verify and imagine that everything is good, or not trust and imagine that everything is bad??? I'm not sure what other approach to use??

Trust but verify is not a bad way to rebuild. Sam knows that she fucked up (hurt me and her relationship with Bill) and she knows that she will (statistically speaking) get caught at some point if she fucks up again. Why not have that extra little check and balance?

The reason you are verifying is because there is NO TRUST.

[Samanthasman]

I have to disagree with folks who are saying kick Samantha to the curb. There's no excuse for lying to your spouse, but calling for divorce over a series of phone calls is an overreaction, even when it involves phone calls to an (ex)lover. If she was having sex with him and lying about it then, yes, go for the divorce. Even then, though, I would say see a marriage counsellor before making out the papers.

I feel strongly that trust can be rebuilt in a relationship as long as both people really commit to rebuilding it. So far, Samantha hasn't, but this whole thread is only six weeks old. That's not very long at all and SM wasn't even sure what he wanted to do when he started the thread.

FWIW, I don't think "trust but verify" helps the process of rebuilding trust in a relationship. I've been down that road (as the one verifying) and didn't find it helpful; it just made me paranoid. It's not something I would recommend to anyone or do again myself.

If you don't "trust but verify", what do you do??? Not verify and imagine that everything is good, or not trust and imagine that everything is bad??? I'm not sure what other approach to use??

Trust but verify is not a bad way to rebuild. Sam knows that she fucked up (hurt me and her relationship with Bill) and she knows that she will (statistically speaking) get caught at some point if she fucks up again. Why not have that extra little check and balance?

The reason you are verifying is because there is NO TRUST.

Ummm, yeah, no shit...

[Marc]

And she wasn't cheating or even "pre-cheating" (whatever) that is. She is or was LYING. this is no longer about sex or hotwifing or Bill. This is about her lying.

Personally I think a line has been crossed so many times I don't think you will ever be able to trust her again. I hope for the sake of your marriage ( and your kids remember them?) You get that trust back and save your marriage.
Chalk up the recent hotwife thing as a failed experiment and move on. Don't try to make something else work. It won't. Not for a long time anyway.

[Marc]

I have to disagree with folks who are saying kick Samantha to the curb. There's no excuse for lying to your spouse, but calling for divorce over a series of phone calls is an overreaction, even when it involves phone calls to an (ex)lover. If she was having sex with him and lying about it then, yes, go for the divorce. Even then, though, I would say see a marriage counsellor before making out the papers.

I feel strongly that trust can be rebuilt in a relationship as long as both people really commit to rebuilding it. So far, Samantha hasn't, but this whole thread is only six weeks old. That's not very long at all and SM wasn't even sure what he wanted to do when he started the thread.

FWIW, I don't think "trust but verify" helps the process of rebuilding trust in a relationship. I've been down that road (as the one verifying) and didn't find it helpful; it just made me paranoid. It's not something I would recommend to anyone or do again myself.

If you don't "trust but verify", what do you do??? Not verify and imagine that everything is good, or not trust and imagine that everything is bad??? I'm not sure what other approach to use??

Trust but verify is not a bad way to rebuild. Sam knows that she fucked up (hurt me and her relationship with Bill) and she knows that she will (statistically speaking) get caught at some point if she fucks up again. Why not have that extra little check and balance?

The reason you are verifying is because there is NO TRUST.

Ummm, yeah, no shit...

. So flippant. I was merely pointing out you arent trusting and verifying. There is no trust. Period. None.

Man I really feel for your kids. At least once this marriage ends in divorce whichever parent gets custody the money will still be there so they can keep their nannies and au pairs.

[Wifesharing]

Trust but verify is not trust at all (but ignoring the obvious is not well placed trust). In rebuilding trust though there has to be a period of double checking.

The telling Bill's wife and job is not a reasonable action, Your wife is in a relationship with you and is the person that owes you a commitment she made to you, Bill owes you nothing he never vowed to love honor and cherish you. This is a common reaction form a cheated spouse I will kill the guy or I will kill that bitch, or in someway get even, but it is misdirected anger. Calling him and telling him to back off is fine, (not likely he cares what you think). He will continue the relationship if she allows it ( I don't see him raping her). So if things were to continue and she allows it to keep going it her that needs to be dealt with, he owes you nothing. All that said I probably would have stomped him for good measure some time ago :-).

[zorro]

I agree with SSQ that to punish Bill for Sam's withholding the truth from you is misguided. Bill did exactly what he was brought on board for: to give Sam unspeakable pleasure. I guess you could say that he disrespected your wishes IF you had out and out told him never to communicate with Sam again. But I don't recall your telling him that. What I recall hearing is that your insisting that Sam be truthful with you -- a precept for successful HW -- and her saying she didn't think she could be. So, it is indeed time for her to give up HW until she decides she can be truthful.

Some couples get off on an agreement to cheat on each other, but I don't hear that you do, now matter how hot it is.

Sorry it has come to this. Sam sounds like a fantastically sexual woman.

[luvMyHotwife]

Samantha does not want to ruin his life. It would be a ramification to both of them. But, I'm not doing it out of vengeance. I told him as a preventative measure, plus I do believe that getting his wife to put a leash on him would be helpful.

None of this would be happening if you two could behave as adults. You are probably scaring off potential HW couples with this shenanigans. You could have simply negotiated this while it was progressing and no one's feelings would have got hurt!

[Samanthasman]

Those are consequences for Bill, not for Samantha. This is between you and her. I don't really think it's appropriate for you to boil his bunny. Samantha is the one who is married to you and has made commitments to you.

IMO, while I could still love someone, if I couldn't trust them, then it's over. The love isn't relevant. My husband and I at times have both said terrible things to each other. We've both pushed boundaries that made the other person uncomfortable. But at least we've always been up front and honest about it, and I suspect that's a huge reason why we have made this lifestyle work despite the challenges we've experienced as our wants and needs evolve.

It would kill me that she lied to your face and seemingly feels no remorse for it, since she was just trying to prevent herself from being inconvenienced.

Samantha does not want to ruin his life. It would be a ramification to both of them. But, I'm not doing it out of vengeance. I told him as a preventative measure, plus I do believe that getting his wife to put a leash on him would be helpful.

Right now, I'm thinking this won't be necessary.

As for the trust thing... We are far from the first couple to ever have gone through something that has shaken the trust. Cheating is VERY common and this was not cheating - it was sort of pre-cheating, not that that justifies anything. My point is that we both believe the trust can be rebuilt and want to work towards that...

My point is, that unless you're a total asshole, his marriage is none of your business. I know you're upset, but I really can't believe you'd consider something like that. Your problem is with Samantha. If you think you need to try and control someone else to fix problems in your relationship, that should be showing you how serious this is.

m

I disagree. He is complicit in this. I want to address the push and the pull. There needs to be ramifications on both sides. I have no hesitation that this is the right thing to do if he continues to move forward. I told him that. He has been put on notice. Hopefully, this is all a moot point and none of this will come to be.

[Samanthasman]

I agree with SSQ that to punish Bill for Sam's withholding the truth from you is misguided. Bill did exactly what he was brought on board for: to give Sam unspeakable pleasure. I guess you could say that he disrespected your wishes IF you had out and out told him never to communicate with Sam again. But I don't recall your telling him that. What I recall hearing is that your insisting that Sam be truthful with you -- a precept for successful HW -- and her saying she didn't think she could be. So, it is indeed time for her to give up HW until she decides she can be truthful.

Some couples get off on an agreement to cheat on each other, but I don't hear that you do, now matter how hot it is.

Sorry it has come to this. Sam sounds like a fantastically sexual woman.

I had called Bill in front of Samantha (back at the time when she agreed to break it off with him) and said "I will interpret any further contact with Samantha as an act of war - are we crystal clear?". He said yes. I then apologized that it had to end this way.

It takes two to tango. He knows that if he continues this game I will respond at this point. I am addressing both sides of the equation. This seems like a very rational move. It's not vindictive - it's simply a measured next step should it come to that.

[MrsTruckstar]

SM, when there has been a break any contact, good or bad is contact. You are perpetuating the deal, you are continuing the motion by contacting him. No contact is the only way. You contacting him is indirect communication vicariously with Sam. You monitoring him is keeping him in both of your lives.

Like SSQ says, unless you are a complete arsehole, leave him alone, it was all consensual, nobody cheated (as far as we know) and now it is over. Close it down tight and move on.

[luvMyHotwife]

I called Bill in front of Samantha and said "I will interpret and further contact with Samantha as an act of war - are we crystal clear?".

Do the honorable thing and request that your threads be deleted. This is a mockery of HWing.

[Samanthasman]

Samantha does not want to ruin his life. It would be a ramification to both of them. But, I'm not doing it out of vengeance. I told him as a preventative measure, plus I do believe that getting his wife to put a leash on him would be helpful.

None of this would be happening if you two could behave as adults. You are probably scaring off potential HW couples with this shenanigans. You could have simply negotiated this while it was progressing and no one's feelings would have got hurt!

Hummm...

I sort of made a commitment to post everything about our experience from the start. The good, the bad, and the ugly. My guess is that few people continue to post details about the "bumps" they hit because it's painful, or because they feel like failures, or because they don't want the wrath of responses on here. I'm just posting the real story.

I don't want to "scare off" newbies, but then I also don't believe it's the purpose of this forum to encourage newbies to do this. For what it's worth, we have had highs and lows, but at this point I still would not trade this experience for anything. I'm happy that we did this. It has been very exciting and I still anticipate our relationship will emerge stronger than ever. Every time a couple overcomes an obstacle, they emerge stronger.

I do wonder what we should have done differently? Still processing that. Probably killed Bill for good the first time. Acted more confident in front of my wife. In total I got lots of advice - mostly good and some bad. A challenge on here is that so many people are doing this with different models that the opinions are diverse and often strong opinions.

[hhubby]

honestlu, talk to bill's wife? to telmher what? thatbyou encourahe your wife to have sex with other men (bill) and she like it how he do it and obviously he like it too, and now you are upset? man that is so wrong bill is not the one to blame..... Sorry but I cant agree on how you will proceed.... leave Britney alone.... I mean bill