Kill Bill...Asking wife to dump BF?!?!

[Samanthasman]

the emotional stuff is completely unacceptable for alot of us, as well as most swinger couples. this is for obvious reasons. there's a whole raft of us HW husbands who would not get within 100 yards of SM's HWing style.

Again, for good reason. That's where the fail comes from.

Possibly true, but irreverent. There are a ton (probably the majority) of women that won't have sex without the emotional connection. So arguing that one method or model is better than another is like arguing that hamburgers taste better than hotdogs. It's irreverent.

The question is - what model is compatible with your desires and goals...

The majority of HW's need the emotional connection and will eventually get it and possibly fall in love or deep like/whatever... And many HWH's and their HW's will have to deal with that. Some women dump the guy when he gets too close. Sometimes the husband dumps the guy (as in my story). Some women love both men and everyone has to learn to deck with that. I suspect many of these things work and some do not.

[SmilingHusband]

(nevermind)

[Samanthasman]

Yeah - the whole "model" thing is bullshit. There is no hotwife manual that lays out the ten or twenty different models, each with a set of rules that couples pick one and follow that particular one. If there are 500 couples on here then there are 500 different "models". Because every couple is different. Every person is different. Two couples can do nine of ten things exactly the same but that one that is different might make all the difference in the world. Somethings that are deal breakers for some couples might be business as usual for others.

My wife has one BF. She REALLY likes him and loves chatting and talking and hanging out with him almost as much as she likes fucking him. And oh yeah he rocks her world in bed too. Sounds kind of like Sam and Bill huh? Except not. She doesn't lie to me. She doesn't care if I watch. She plays with him alone most of the time because I am at work when they have time during the day. Things that she does that has Sam's man all worried and twisted in knot's when his wife does them doesn't bother me at all. He has stopped and started and threatened and argued and stopped and started again and have things like counseling and doubling down and private investigators. My wife does the same and I just go to work and come home and ask her how was her day.

It is very easy to over think things. WE don't really have any rules. They are discussed as each situation or date or hook up happens. What is no problem tomorrow might not work next week. We talk. We compromise we do what needs to be done so it works for both of us.

I guess that's our model. Until tomorrow when we change it

That's awesome that things are working so well for you.

I use the term "model" just as a term to say that different people implement this differently -- using different models. Yours apparently is similar to mine in some ways: BF + Solo.

I hope your model continues to always work well. I have no idea if it will or not. Perhaps you don't worry because you sense that you have nothing to worry about. Perhaps you don't actually love your wife that much. Perhaps you have superior confidence that makes you never worry about anything. Perhaps your living in denial and one day your wife will walk in and tell you she wants a divorce to be with her lover instead of you. It seems like I have seen just about all of those scenarios on here.

I think I could have, and maybe should have, just lets things happen without overthinking everything. Do it more like you do. Just let the wife fuck her BF and not really worry about it. Statistically speaking, my deal would probably look a lot like yours: she'd have a single BF, she would talk and text often, she would fuck as much as possible. We'd probably all be happy. There would not have been any lies - because there would never have been the debates and conversations that created her reason for lying (right or wrong). There would not be doubling down or private detectives or trust but verify - as none of that would have been necessary. There would just be a BF and lots of sex and intimacy. ... She might have fallen in love... that might have lead to other things... who knows where it would ultimately conclude. Statically speaking, I would say that mostly likely she would eventually get tired of him or he of her, but then there is always some chance that their love could grow and ultimately she could come home and say "Honey, I want a divorce"

I guess I just didn't feel as comfortable letting things evolve unpredictably, and thus all the introspection, etc.

[54321]

I've been wearily trudging through the last few pages and a pattern is beginning to emerge.

SM, you are intense and S is secretive. The more intense you are, the more secretive she becomes.
The more secretive she is, the more intense you become.

It wouldn't surprise me if she had an intense parent and you had a secretive one.
Perhaps you chose each other because being in a relationship with that kind
of person feels 'normal'. It kind of works, but as soon as the relationship comes under pressure,
it becomes self destructive.

SSQ suggested a 'kink' friendly therapist. I agree with her. Hotwifing aside, it would make life a lot
more fun for both of you.

You clearly both enjoy hotwifing (and good for you) but right now, the number one priority is the way you
both relate to the world and to each other.

Every good wish,

54321

[viking53]

"We too have had some communication problems (well documented) and are seeing a KAP therapist on Monday - thanks in part to your suggestion!

We are actually seeing two to see which one we like better.
"

SamsMan, saw this in your post on another thread. Really glad to hear this and I hope that it helps you both get back on track. All the best to you both.

[Mojo123]

...When you play with fire, you may get burned... But when you do it over and over, you do get better at it...

Not necessarily…you might get burned beyond recognition.

[WantMore]

Yeah - the whole "model" thing is bullshit. There is no hotwife manual that lays out the ten or twenty different models, each with a set of rules that couples pick one and follow that particular one. If there are 500 couples on here then there are 500 different "models". Because every couple is different. Every person is different. Two couples can do nine of ten things exactly the same but that one that is different might make all the difference in the world. Somethings that are deal breakers for some couples might be business as usual for others.

My wife has one BF. She REALLY likes him and loves chatting and talking and hanging out with him almost as much as she likes fucking him. And oh yeah he rocks her world in bed too. Sounds kind of like Sam and Bill huh? Except not. She doesn't lie to me. She doesn't care if I watch. She plays with him alone most of the time because I am at work when they have time during the day. Things that she does that has Sam's man all worried and twisted in knot's when his wife does them doesn't bother me at all. He has stopped and started and threatened and argued and stopped and started again and have things like counseling and doubling down and private investigators. My wife does the same and I just go to work and come home and ask her how was her day.

It is very easy to over think things. WE don't really have any rules. They are discussed as each situation or date or hook up happens. What is no problem tomorrow might not work next week. We talk. We compromise we do what needs to be done so it works for both of us.

I guess that's our model. Until tomorrow when we change it

This is us too. Coming up on 23 years and we see no end.

You guys sure have some problems and seeking someone to talk to is probably your last resort to keep hotwifing alive. Hope you guys can find a way to be happy with hotwifing!

[Nectcouple]

SM,

I surely did not mean to dump on you as many here seem to have. I believe the harsh words are a result of the frustration we have felt as we have read your posts and witnessed your wavering back and forth as you have dealt with your issues. But no one here knows exactly your life and/or emotions. You are living it. We are not. If we were, we may have handled it in a similar fashion to yours. Who knows?

You have blazed a twisting, turning trail, full of switchbacks and false starts and you have documented it frankly and honestly. For that, we should all thank you. We should also thank EVERY poster who has taken the time to encourage or even rebut each of your posts. They prove that your's is but one of countless trails blazed through the wilderness that is "hotwifing".

I hope that you never again consider deleting this thread because, as a whole, it serves as a lesson (some would say "warning") on the pitfalls and/or strategies involved in starting out in the lifestyle by jumping in with both feet.

As I mentioned in my previous post, my wife and I have not yet made any kind of leap yet (and, at this point, who knows if we will) so I do not claim to be an expert in any sense of the word. (you far exceed my expertise) But in our situation, my wife and I have agreed on a few basic "rules" as a direct result of following your thread...
1) Communication, communication, communication.
2) I am not a cuck, nor do I want to be.
3) Any time I can be there, I will be there.
4) The first time either of us lies to the other, will be the LAST time either of lies about hotwifing, period!

Of course, we have come up with others, but we believe the above tenets will help us avoid some of the "ankle biters" that seem to have tripped you up on your journey. Of course, none of the above helps deal with the emotional aspect of it all. We think that for us, once emotions become any stronger than any other of her friendships, it is time to look elsewhere.

I know I am rambling like the novice that I am, but I wanted to add my thoughts and I also wanted to thank you and everyone else who has commented here. To those of us just starting out on this weird social experiment (or thinking about it) this is a well documented story of one couple's journey so far and can enlighten our own trip.

Finally, SM, I doubt your journey is over yet, but I hope you continue with this thread either way. Thanks again and I hope to hear from you on here.

(BTW, I mentioned that reading about your experiences was like watching a TRAIN WRECK in slow motion. I understand and appreciate that your posts were in real time and that time span was brief.)

[Samanthasman]

The Nuclear Option

When my wife and I had our little showdown over Bill I told her that I wanted it to end, and I made it clear to both of them that if it's over I won't hold any bad feelings, however if it's not over and it does not end then I will talk to his wife. I suppose you'd call this the nuclear option.

I did not really hesitate to make this ramification clear. After all, I felt that we specifically had an understanding that either party could end things at any time and that when anyone in the relationship was asked to stop, all would stop. We also specifically went for married men because they had "more to lose" and other obligations. Finally, I would do nothing to harm Bill, except in "self defense" of him first doing something to "harm me". He had full control of whether he would put his marriage one the line by going against my wishes.

In the end, the relationship with Bill stopped abruptly. When I asked Sam why, she acknowledged that the risks to bill's marriage were too great. His interest in sneaking, or negotiating, or otherwise exploring things going forward went to zero.. As did hers.... Does that mean it was a good idea!!??

[zorro]

No, I don't think it was a good idea. You could have waited for Sam to have ended the relationship, not vacillated back and forth as you did, and give them the bring things to closure without the threats. There would always be another time to start making threats.

But that's me. I don't like being coercive in relationships. And I don't vacillate. That's how it would have felt to me. But you may have a different personal take on it. Perhaps you needed to scare Bill off now so you wouldn't have to vacillate anymore.

I doubt he will be back. If I had been Bill, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage even for superhot pussy like Sam's. But then again, I don't cheat on Ruth.

[Samanthasman]

No, I don't think it was a good idea. You could have waited for Sam to have ended the relationship, not vacillated back and forth as you did, and give them the bring things to closure without the threats. There would always be another time to start making threats.

But that's me. I don't like being coercive in relationships. And I don't vacillate. That's how it would have felt to me. But you may have a different personal take on it. Perhaps you needed to scare Bill off now so you wouldn't have to vacillate anymore.

I doubt he will be back. If I had been Bill, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage even for superhot pussy like Sam's. But then again, I don't cheat on Ruth.

I guess my feeling was that once the 3rd lie occurred, I was 100% out, and asked that the relationship be terminate immediately. Had I only "asked" without also giving an ultimatum, there might have been an extended period of calling, possible sneaking, additional lying, etc. Who knows. Frankly, I don't believe that would have been good for anyone.

I'm bringing it up here more or less for the benefit of others that might someday be in a situation where they have to terminate a relationship. Obviously, the goal would be to never have to be in such a situation, however, I have had many husbands and wives reach out to me saying that at one point or another a relationship did have to be terminated. Apparently it is fairly common. Maybe by adding the nuclear option, it helps accelerates the painful but necessary process?

[SSQ]

No, I don't think it was a good idea. You could have waited for Sam to have ended the relationship, not vacillated back and forth as you did, and give them the bring things to closure without the threats. There would always be another time to start making threats.

But that's me. I don't like being coercive in relationships. And I don't vacillate. That's how it would have felt to me. But you may have a different personal take on it. Perhaps you needed to scare Bill off now so you wouldn't have to vacillate anymore.

I doubt he will be back. If I had been Bill, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage even for superhot pussy like Sam's. But then again, I don't cheat on Ruth.

I guess my feeling was that once the 3rd lie occurred, I was 100% out, and asked that the relationship be terminate immediately. Had I only "asked" without also giving an ultimatum, there might have been an extended period of calling, possible sneaking, additional lying, etc. Who knows. Frankly, I don't believe that would have been good for anyone.

I'm bringing it up here more or less for the benefit of others that might someday be in a situation where they have to terminate a relationship. Obviously, the goal would be to never have to be in such a situation, however, I have had many husbands and wives reach out to me saying that at one point or another a relationship did have to be terminated. Apparently it is fairly common. Maybe by adding the nuclear option, it helps accelerates the painful but necessary process?

I think it is entirely disrespectful to both parties. Your wife isn't a child, and the other person is none of your business at all.

I've never had to terminate a relationship, although it came close at one point. In that case, I see no reason why an ultimatum to your wife would have been any less effective without being an asshole. I think that the threat was just your desire to reassert control over a situation where you felt like you had none. Either way, boiling bunnies (and I can't believe you threatened calling his work, too) is a pretty terrible thing to do. You are not the judge and jury of other adults. It is not up to you to mete out punishment to other people. You can decide your own limits and boundaries, but beyond that, tend your own garden.

[Samanthasman]

No, I don't think it was a good idea. You could have waited for Sam to have ended the relationship, not vacillated back and forth as you did, and give them the bring things to closure without the threats. There would always be another time to start making threats.

But that's me. I don't like being coercive in relationships. And I don't vacillate. That's how it would have felt to me. But you may have a different personal take on it. Perhaps you needed to scare Bill off now so you wouldn't have to vacillate anymore.

I doubt he will be back. If I had been Bill, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage even for superhot pussy like Sam's. But then again, I don't cheat on Ruth.

I guess my feeling was that once the 3rd lie occurred, I was 100% out, and asked that the relationship be terminate immediately. Had I only "asked" without also giving an ultimatum, there might have been an extended period of calling, possible sneaking, additional lying, etc. Who knows. Frankly, I don't believe that would have been good for anyone.

I'm bringing it up here more or less for the benefit of others that might someday be in a situation where they have to terminate a relationship. Obviously, the goal would be to never have to be in such a situation, however, I have had many husbands and wives reach out to me saying that at one point or another a relationship did have to be terminated. Apparently it is fairly common. Maybe by adding the nuclear option, it helps accelerates the painful but necessary process?

I think it is entirely disrespectful to both parties. Your wife isn't a child, and the other person is none of your business at all.

I've never had to terminate a relationship, although it came close at one point. In that case, I see no reason why an ultimatum to your wife would have been any less effective without being an asshole. I think that the threat was just your desire to reassert control over a situation where you felt like you had none. Either way, boiling bunnies (and I can't believe you threatened calling his work, too) is a pretty terrible thing to do. You are not the judge and jury of other adults. It is not up to you to mete out punishment to other people. You can decide your own limits and boundaries, but beyond that, tend your own garden.

SSQ - you are a voice I respect on this forum... So it's disappointing to hear your disapproval. I understand your position. My position is that I will not do anything at all to harm him... Or his relationship with his wife... Nothing.... Except, in the event that he purposely chooses to purposely harm my marriage after the relationship with him was terminated. So... He has nothing to worry about at all, unless, he goes over the line and interferes with my marriage after the relationship was terminated. I did give my wife the choice to terminate of not. She chose to terminate.

In the end, my observation is that this accelerated the separation, which is probably a good thing for all. Like pulling off a bandaid with a bold quick rip, vs. A slow painful tear.

Honestly, I don't know for sure if this was the right move, but in retrospect I feel that it helped the overall situation and I wanted to share this experience here...

[Wifesharing]

No, I don't think it was a good idea. You could have waited for Sam to have ended the relationship, not vacillated back and forth as you did, and give them the bring things to closure without the threats. There would always be another time to start making threats.

But that's me. I don't like being coercive in relationships. And I don't vacillate. That's how it would have felt to me. But you may have a different personal take on it. Perhaps you needed to scare Bill off now so you wouldn't have to vacillate anymore.

I doubt he will be back. If I had been Bill, I wouldn't sacrifice my marriage even for superhot pussy like Sam's. But then again, I don't cheat on Ruth.

I guess my feeling was that once the 3rd lie occurred, I was 100% out, and asked that the relationship be terminate immediately. Had I only "asked" without also giving an ultimatum, there might have been an extended period of calling, possible sneaking, additional lying, etc. Who knows. Frankly, I don't believe that would have been good for anyone.

I'm bringing it up here more or less for the benefit of others that might someday be in a situation where they have to terminate a relationship. Obviously, the goal would be to never have to be in such a situation, however, I have had many husbands and wives reach out to me saying that at one point or another a relationship did have to be terminated. Apparently it is fairly common. Maybe by adding the nuclear option, it helps accelerates the painful but necessary process?

I think it is entirely disrespectful to both parties. Your wife isn't a child, and the other person is none of your business at all.

I've never had to terminate a relationship, although it came close at one point. In that case, I see no reason why an ultimatum to your wife would have been any less effective without being an asshole. I think that the threat was just your desire to reassert control over a situation where you felt like you had none. Either way, boiling bunnies (and I can't believe you threatened calling his work, too) is a pretty terrible thing to do. You are not the judge and jury of other adults. It is not up to you to mete out punishment to other people. You can decide your own limits and boundaries, but beyond that, tend your own garden.

SSQ - you are a voice I respect on this forum... So it's disappointing to hear your disapproval. I understand your position. My position is that I will not do anything at all to harm him... Or his relationship with his wife... Nothing.... Except, in the event that he purposely chooses to purposely harm my marriage after the relationship with him was terminated. So... He has nothing to worry about at all, unless, he goes over the line and interferes with my marriage after the relationship was terminated. I did give my wife the choice to terminate of not. She chose to terminate.

In the end, my observation is that this accelerated the separation, which is probably a good thing for all. Like pulling off a bandaid with a bold quick rip, vs. A slow painful tear.

Honestly, I don't know for sure if this was the right move, but in retrospect I feel that it helped the overall situation and I wanted to share this experience here...

SM where I have the problem of the threats to Bill is that Bill can not harm your marriage by himself, Your wife has to be a party to that. She has to be over it if something was to occur between the two of them at this point it is her betraying you not him. I am in no way saying she will, just saying that Bill doesn't owe you anything, and can not continue the relationship in anyway with out your wife consenting. If he called her, and she just hung up nothing more can happen but if he called her and she talked to him that is her betraying you. If she called him, why would he not talk to her and see what he can get, still why would you seek to destroy him for that.

I guess I don't so much have problem with in the heat of the moment calling him and making a threat it would be the follow through after things have been thought out that would not make since to me. Also back in my days of sleeping with married woman and a husband called me as you did Bill would just sound the challenge flag for me (ofcourse I was wrong and a bit of asshole when I was younger).

[Samanthasman]

"...If she called him, why would he not talk to her and see what he can get, still why would you seek to destroy him for that?..."

He is very concerned about me talking to his wife. He does not want that. I don't want that. My wife does not want that. As a result of this "heat of the moment threat" he basically told my wife that he's out.

In other words, giving an ultimatum had the exact result that was intended, which was probably good for everyone. Sort of like how the "mutually assured destruction" threats the super-powers made to each other during the Cold War worked. They kept both sides from hurting each other.

Ulimatums are a little unpleasant, but have a place in the world. One reason that we choose to seek married men was because we did want guys that were not looking for a wife and had something to lose if they did get jump off the tracks.

[DaBolts]

SM even though I dont agree in how you handled the situation with Bill I think you did ok in telling him to stay away or you will twidening him sounds childish and it is but you are in the right here. You seem to have thought it was your only move and you used it. After all she is your wife it is your marriage and you are the one who allowed him the pleasure of seeing your wife.
Sometimes the wives on this forum think they should have all the freedom to do as they please and not be treated like children (my wife is guilty of this type of thinking as well). Just cause we get or got some thrills from this life style does not mean we should have zero say in how we want our married life to go.

[here4fun71]

I have just finished reading this and your other thread and it sounds a lot like a situation my wife and I had up until 2 months ago
I was sure wether to post it here but as it is long winded and I thought a lot of it was different so I have just posted it in its own thread

[zorro]

Of course, it was your right to ask that the relationship come to an end, which as we all learned from Samantha, is something you have done repeatedly when your anxiety about Samantha's feelings frightened you, particularly in the relationship with Allan.

You ask if you did the right thing, and many of us think you overdid it by threatening Bill. But though you ask for the opinions of others, you don't want to hear those opinions. From his perspective, he was doing what was requested and that was to sexually pleasure your wife, which he seemed to be awesome at. He was a good FB, from everything you have said. Sam had trouble staying away from him, but that is between Sam and you, not Bill and you.

In return, you threatened to destroy his work and marital life. Something is akilter here. Yes, I bet you accelerated the ending of the relationship. Bill's lucky if he didn't shit in his pants when you went over the top. What was the cost? If at some time in the future, Sam and you work out your issues (and ultimately all this is about you and her), forget about Bill as a possible playmate for Sam. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have anything to do with a vindictive person. The nightmare every FB has to consider is that the wife's husband will go off the deep end and shoot him or otherwise overreact.

You talk about your threat as though it were something you had to do to protect your marriage. But when I reflect on how you have repeatedly said that you didn't think your marriage was really in danger, I realize how much your threat was actually directed at Sam. "If you don't do what I say, I'm going to destroy your toy!" And you have, at least for her. Bill is probably relieved to just be away from both of you and all the drama. From Sam's point of view, you threatened her by threatening to hurt Bill. Is there any way threatening your wife could be good for your marriage in the long run?

[Samanthasman]

Of course, it was your right to ask that the relationship come to an end, which as we all learned from Samantha, is something you have done repeatedly when your anxiety about Samantha's feelings frightened you, particularly in the relationship with Allan.

You ask if you did the right thing, and many of us think you overdid it by threatening Bill. But though you ask for the opinions of others, you don't want to hear those opinions. From his perspective, he was doing what was requested and that was to sexually pleasure your wife, which he seemed to be awesome at. He was a good FB, from everything you have said. Sam had trouble staying away from him, but that is between Sam and you, not Bill and you.

In return, you threatened to destroy his work and marital life. Something is akilter here. Yes, I bet you accelerated the ending of the relationship. Bill's lucky if he didn't shit in his pants when you went over the top. What was the cost? If at some time in the future, Sam and you work out your issues (and ultimately all this is about you and her), forget about Bill as a possible playmate for Sam. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't have anything to do with a vindictive person. The nightmare every FB has to consider is that the wife's husband will go off the deep end and shoot him or otherwise overreact.

You talk about your threat as though it were something you had to do to protect your marriage. But when I reflect on how you have repeatedly said that you didn't think your marriage was really in danger, I realize how much your threat was actually directed at Sam. "If you don't do what I say, I'm going to destroy your toy!" And you have, at least for her. Bill is probably relieved to just be away from both of you and all the drama. From Sam's point of view, you threatened her by threatening to hurt Bill. Is there any way threatening your wife could be good for your marriage in the long run?

Yes, I see your points here... I was enraged by the lying. I'm still stinging about that - it was something new in our marriage. I felt hurt from lie number one... Then lie number two... And then we went into lie number 3; which was strike 3. At that point I basically said "I'm out - right now" and I said "it ends immediatly" and took measures to not allow it to linger on.

Where we seem to disagree is that I did not threaten to make any first moves. I basically said "if you take a gun and shoot me in the back, I have to warm you, that after I hit the ground, I'm likely to draw my own gun and shoot back"...

[zorro]

SM, I understand your rage at being lied to. I could easily feel that were I in your shoes. And I think as I have come to understand you that it was indeed time for the hotwifing to come to a halt, at least for now until Sam and you could get things straight between you.

Having been the extra guy for several HW couples before the shoe was on the other foot, I can say that for an extra guy, your threat to ruin his life was out of proportion to what was happening. Murders have happened as a consequence of the mindset you were in. I think you are minimizing the aggressiveness of what you did. If you wanted Sam to stop, you needed to work with Sam on it. Why didn't you threaten to divorce Sam if she did that again? That would have been more to the point. If Bill had been stalking Sam or threatening her safety in some way, then I think a case might be made for what you did to protect Sam. But such was not the case.

I know you don't see other women, but imagine how you would have felt had you been treated in this way by the enraged husband of a wife you were fucking who was more than fun and who loved fucking you but Sam knew nothing about it. What if you had been threatened with having Sam told about your affair and having your boss told, if you were employed by someone.

As I said, I think your stopping HW to get things straight between Sam and yourself. But I think you could have done the stopping better than you did. I dwell on this only to urge you to find a better way the next time you feel a need to bring things to a halt -- and I suspect there will be a next time. HWing is very hot. You can't live with it and you can't live without it. I'm of course unsure how you will work this out, and I truly wish that Sam and you find a way to make this work that leaves you both very happy. But you could have done this with a gentler hand and kept more options open.

[Artimas]

SM I for one think your admonition to Bill was appropriate. It's not any different from the highway signs warning folks who litter of the possibility of $1000.00 fines or a year in jail.

[Samanthasman]

SM I for one think your admonition to Bill was appropriate. It's not any different from the highway signs warning folks who litter of the possibility of $1000.00 fines or a year in jail.

Thank you! I obviously agree. I don't consider that sign to be a threat - it's simply an ultimatum. I have complete control as to whether I can litter or not. Even if littering was previously allowed or even encouraged, it is not longer allowed and the sign makes that clear.

[rahulsinghrana]

The classic trap, she makes you responsible for the break up, even if she does she is doing a favor on you, which you indeed have to pay for later. This is a huge gamble she is playing, and becoming so willing to break up, she is expecting that you'll back down. Breaking up would be the best option, love comes and goes, a marriage should stay forever.

[seductionrules]

Bump

[Long Lurker 34]

Bump

I was just thinking of SM, any idea if he's still around?