Her Plan to Dip Toe in Hotwife Water

[Mark K]

I was flustered and was out of solutions, and therefore suggested we address the issue with our couples' therapist.

And... what did the therapist say about that?

[slenderfish]

Just my opinion:
She has a perfect right to decide who will attend event at her home and can exclude anyone to whom she has an objection.
The Italian guy should be told that he is welcome but if he brings K he will not be allowed in.
I can't believe this is even an issue.

I think this is ultimately the correct answer, from the perspective of a supportive husband. And this is the final answer, if we can't find middle ground of compromise.

But for the sake of clarity, the party is at a local boutique hotel; we are taking over a rooftop deck area, providing full-open-bar cocktails for the 50-60 guests plus full dinner and decorations, deejay, photo booth, entertainment, etc.

With this big group, this Ms. K is going to get lost in the crowd.

Also, it's my birthday, so SW should at least look inside herself to see if she can let me have this one, for my friend. I ask certain things from time to time of my friends, and they always bend for me. I would like to bend for Mr. Italian on this one.

[slenderfish]

Verb,

Please note: not long ago Mr. E had a party on his yacht and SW demanded SF get Mr. B (making Mr. B an extra plus one) an invite to the party knowing full well that Mr. E had no desire to allow Mr. B ever to attend any party hosted by Mr. E. But now when a guest with a invite “plus one” to a party SW is cohosting with SF, SW makes ultimatum over a “plus one”.

I would never have asked Mr. E if Mr. B could attend his yacht party. I didn’t think that was appropriate. On the other hand, if Mr. E had invited a woman to his yacht party with a “plus one” and she brought Mr. B, then Mr. E could either refuse to allow either person to attend, possibly throwing a wet blanket on the whole party or Mr. E could show grace and class allowing Mr. B attend.

I wonder what Miss Manners would say.

I fully overlooked this. Thanks for the reminder.

But I did bring up the subject of Mr. B in this conversation, but in a different context. I'll elaborate in a separate post.

[slenderfish]

Sounds like a brat... She can't chill out for this once at your birthday. Maybe you should stop letting her invite Mr B or someone you don't like.

I'm sure the therapist was on your side. Plus it's too late to reject Ms K, she should have told you well in advance

Yes, the therapist was on "my side" but not really on my side; she was on the side of proper etiquette, reasonableness and consideration. Which ended up being closer to "my side."

We dedicated the whole session to this question and the therapist was intuitive enough to sense there is more behind SW's energy, and probed.

Turns out that SW has not yet released the energy from that night in 2020, and still holds onto some kind of wonder if something happened between me and Ms, K up on the rooftop deck.

We kind of went back in time and discussed the feelings, etc. and I think SW was more embarrassed because her girlfriends were giving her the raised eyebrows (these girlfriends apparently knew that Ms. K is not to be trusted with husbands, etc.) and it made SW feel small and helpless. She transferred that over to me, and has not let that go.

My reply was that I deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt here, in that I have explained so many times that nothing did happen, that I'm clearly not the cheating husband type of man, and that her mistrust of the situation must be something different. That I have accepted her explanations of things that are 100x more shady (e.g. her and Mr. B) because she is my wife and I love her, and that's sufficient for me. Therefore, she should accept my explanation and assurances on this one.

The therapist noted that we are out of time, that we will need to pick this one up later.

[william70]

IMHO. It's her party for you. If she doesn't want Ms. K there then it is up to her to get a hold of Mr. Italy and ask him to comply with her wishes or uninvite him.

[afagehi7]

Sounds like a brat... She can't chill out for this once at your birthday. Maybe you should stop letting her invite Mr B or someone you don't like.

I'm sure the therapist was on your side. Plus it's too late to reject Ms K, she should have told you well in advance

Yes, the therapist was on "my side" but not really on my side; she was on the side of proper etiquette, reasonableness and consideration. Which ended up being closer to "my side."

We dedicated the whole session to this question and the therapist was intuitive enough to sense there is more behind SW's energy, and probed.

Turns out that SW has not yet released the energy from that night in 2020, and still holds onto some kind of wonder if something happened between me and Ms, K up on the rooftop deck.

We kind of went back in time and discussed the feelings, etc. and I think SW was more embarrassed because her girlfriends were giving her the raised eyebrows (these girlfriends apparently knew that Ms. K is not to be trusted with husbands, etc.) and it made SW feel small and helpless. She transferred that over to me, and has not let that go.

My reply was that I deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt here, in that I have explained so many times that nothing did happen, that I'm clearly not the cheating husband type of man, and that her mistrust of the situation must be something different. That I have accepted her explanations of things that are 100x more shady (e.g. her and Mr. B) because she is my wife and I love her, and that's sufficient for me. Therefore, she should accept my explanation and assurances on this one.

The therapist noted that we are out of time, that we will need to pick this one up later.

Agreed, poor etiquette and taste to uninvite. Should have made it clear from beginning if there were people she didn't want to attend

[Mr Mrs Cream]

Sounds like a brat... She can't chill out for this once at your birthday. Maybe you should stop letting her invite Mr B or someone you don't like.

I'm sure the therapist was on your side. Plus it's too late to reject Ms K, she should have told you well in advance

Turns out that SW has not yet released the energy from that night in 2020, and still holds onto some kind of wonder if something happened between me and Ms, K up on the rooftop deck.

So you know that she may afraid that you have given her the green light for a bull because you may want to do more with Ms
K.
And it may finish your relationship.

I forgot to ask, have you ever watched cuckold porn which incudes BBC e.g. wifeysworld.com, with SW.
Sandra and her husband from Wifeysworld are very into BBC…
He is the cameraman.
Such porn may be a common ground for discussion with SW about you watching her with BBC.
As I know SW does not like pictures but not sure how about pictures focused only on her part of the body.

[slenderfish]

IMHO. It's her party for you. If she doesn't want Ms. K there then it is up to her to get a hold of Mr. Italy and ask him to comply with her wishes or uninvite him.

I get your point on this one, but I know SW a) is not diplomatic and b) when something does not make obvious sense, I think it's better to analyze what might be behind it all. The therapist seems to be getting to the heart of the matter. More when I have time to delve deeper.

[slenderfish]

So you know that she may afraid that you have given her the green light for a bull because you may want to do more with Ms
K.

And it may finish your relationship.

So there is a bit of truth here. It turns out, which came out in the therapy session, that she is feeling that she is not satisfying me sexually because she has not been active as a hotwife over the recent past. And therefore I have a desire to go with another woman. And this recent discussion of Ms. K has caused her to become a magnet for this concern.

I forgot to ask, have you ever watched cuckold porn which incudes BBC e.g. wifeysworld.com, with SW.
Sandra and her husband from Wifeysworld are very into BBC…
He is the cameraman.
Such porn may be a common ground for discussion with SW about you watching her with BBC.
As I know SW does not like pictures but not sure how about pictures focused only on her part of the body.

We did have a couple of years during which we did watch a lot of cuckold porn together, and she almost always had powerful orgasms. But she always disclaimed enjoying these, instead portraying the videos as something for me, that she merely went along with to be supportive. This speaks to her aversion to seeming like a slut or a dirty girl, in my opinion.

The therapist is incredulous that SW, as sexy as she is, is not a) watching porn or b) masturbating more often.

[Mr Mrs Cream]

So you know that she may afraid that you have given her the green light for a bull because you may want to do more with Ms
K.

And it may finish your relationship.

So there is a bit of truth here. It turns out, which came out in the therapy session, that she is feeling that she is not satisfying me sexually because she has not been active as a hotwife over the recent past. And therefore I have a desire to go with another woman. And this recent discussion of Ms. K has caused her to become a magnet for this concern.


The therapist is incredulous that SW, as sexy as she is, is not a) watching porn or b) masturbating more often.

This is great news for you that SW knows that the key to your best pleasure is not sex with her but, her with someone else.
If she feels that Ms. K is a rival for her (maybe Ms. K may be more open to give you pleasure while watching her with someone else) she realy needs to take care about your best pleasure.
Have you ever had a casual talk with Ms. K about cuckold and how popular is it now?
How to measure its popularity? Eg. based on member of cuckold treat in Reddit, where it is so many how in lesbian treat.
Maybe you may ask her if she will agree to go with another man if asked by her BF.

The therapist? I think she know that so sexy women have more complexes and also not good exeriences from early life may cause ban for porn and masturbation.

[jjohnson83]

I'm not sure of the exact time frames but if the Ms. K thing happened before she had her questionable night with Mr. B do you think there is any cause and effect there for her? Was it after Ms. K that she then had her hotwife activity? It just makes me feel there is some relation if it is still on her mind at this point, it would have really been on her mind back then.

[afagehi7]

I'm not sure of the exact time frames but if the Ms. K thing happened before she had her questionable night with Mr. B do you think there is any cause and effect there for her? Was it after Ms. K that she then had her hotwife activity? It just makes me feel there is some relation if it is still on her mind at this point, it would have really been on her mind back then.

MS K was well before Mr B iirc

[johnstevens555]

Did you have your party?

[TheHammer]

Damn, hope the Ms. K thing didn’t blow everything up.

[slenderfish]

Did you have your party?

Yes we did have the party. Was even better (as a party) than I'd hoped. It spilled over into Sunday. Yesterday (Monday) ended up being the recovery day. I'll update and summarize when there's a bit of time.

I did find out about her "promise" of granting my wish. Not to be misleading, it wasn't a hotwife thing.

[afagehi7]

Did you have your party?

Yes we did have the party. Was even better (as a party) than I'd hoped. It spilled over into Sunday. Yesterday (Monday) ended up being the recovery day. I'll update and summarize when there's a bit of time.

I did find out about her "promise" of granting my wish. Not to be misleading, it wasn't a hotwife thing.

We knew it was too good to be true

[CuriousUK]

Glad you had an awesome time anyway

[slenderfish]

Damn, hope the Ms. K thing didn’t blow everything up.

SW is very unpredictable in these things.

I'll go through the Ms. K element of the party now.

SW essentially exploded within herself on Thursday after we finished with the therapist. During the therapy session, I'd essentially demanded she give me the same trust and consideration with respect to Ms. K, that I'd granted her with respect to Mr. B. That is, with Mr. B she basically dictated to me that I must believe her words over my eyes. If she holds anger regarding Ms. K, and lack of trust of Ms. K with me, and add the fact that I've never given her any reason to doubt me, it's really about her feelings and not me. She has to manage her feelings and doubts.

During this part of our session, when I was making the point, I did a quick summary of Mr. B in that she'd gone out of her way to hide the fact of his being part of her "girls' party" in August 2020, that he'd obviously stayed when the girls went home, there was no indication of his leaving, etc. I also blurted out some of the lead-up stuff when she was alone in the bedroom of our temporary apartment and came out with her breast exposed, and a subsequent night when I was going out of town and she stayed with him parked in his car for 45 minutes after the bars closed.

We didn't have time in the session to get into any of these, but I wanted to get it out into the conversation, and this was my chance.

So SW scheduled an "emergency" phone session for Friday 10:30 a.m. I had a very busy Friday but agreed to adjust my schedule to open up the half hour for the phone session.

I had a breakfast with Ms. Ch to introduce her to Ms. I. I really want Ms. Ch and SW to become friends, and Ms. I has volunteered to be the facilitator in this. We pushed the breakfast a bit earlier so that we would be done in time for me to initiate that 10:30 call, a conference call with SW and me and the therapist. We had a nice visit with Ms. Ch and bid her a nice day. See you at the birthday party tomorrow (Saturday).

I'll point out that on Thursday afternoon and evening, SW had remained in an agitated state regarding Ms. K, and Ms. I (our houseguest) was feeling the stress of SW and is very empathetic, so they spoke about it at length. Of course Ms. I told SW that it is rude to "un-invite" someone.

During the drive up to the breakfast on Friday morning, I decided it was time to delve into hotwifing with Ms. I and I gave her a brief summary of what had happened with Mr. B and SW in August 2020 and the lead-up to that time. I also told her about the security video, about SW's denials, etc. And then about how SW and I had come to an understanding that I am supportive of her having periodic forays with a man (men) as an accelerant to our sex lives and desires. Ms. I was not aware of any of this, but is Swiss/European and on these matters it's not really unusual. Ms. I has known Mr. B for many years, even before SW and I knew him. We met Mr. B through some social connections that came from Ms. I.

Okay, back to Ms. K. The therapist asked me if I'd worked out any kind of compromise I might present for SW. I suggested that I call Mr. Italian to a) confirm that he still will bringing Ms. K (e.g. that he or she had not cancelled and therefore the issue solved itself); b) to remind him of the past and present difficulties between SW and Ms. K; and c) that Ms. K's participation in the party as his guest (and not expressly invited by us) makes her his responsibility, in that she must be on her best behavior and if she does or says anything unkind to SW, he should be prepared for us to ask him to take Ms. K home. At the same time, I would take responsibility for SW not being unkind to Ms. K.

That SW will be the "Queen" of the party and surrounded by all her close friends, including Ms. I who has offered to be her "velcro" bodyguard. Ms. K will merely be the date of an invited guest.

SW did not expressly agree to my proposal, but the therapist did take the opportunity to stress to SW the following points:

1) It is a party for me (SF) and she wants to support my obvious desire to pull together friends, etc. and in a way this is "who I am" (e.g. social and one to bring disparate groups together with diplomacy, etc). That a wife who supports her husband in being "who he is" allows him to thrive versus always imposing her will which ends up with the man being fully emasculated.

2) That I (SF) have clearly taken a submissive role in the marriage and that it's my nature, and that SW should exult in this fact, in that I support (financially and emotionally) everything she wants in life. That submissive men make the most excellent husbands and she should embrace what she has in me.

3) That SW should trust I have her interests in mind and that she should be secure in attending the party as the wife of the honoree (me) and that all the party guests will not put up with any shenanigans from Ms. K, and that Ms. K will see this energy and not even be tempted to do or say anything that might bother SW.

SW took all this in, and then provided her proposal. That she acquire some really nice panties, put them in a gift box with Ms. K's name on it, and present to Ms. K if she shows up at the party. Putting it in her face.

The therapist and I agreed that SW should have this in her pocket because it'll at least make her feel like she has the power. Hoping for the best.

The day (Friday) proceeded with full craziness as I'd expected. I dropped Ms. I to spend the day visiting her other friend who lives 45 minutes away from us. I had a full day away from home, in meetings, phone conferences, etc. I must admit I kind of avoided getting home early, because I didn't want to resume the conversations about Ms. K. I was over it.

When I arrived home, SW was in a reasonable mood and asked me about any results of a phone call with Mr. Italian. I told her that he reconfirmed he'd invited Ms. K as his guest, and that he had not yet received a reconfirmation from her that she will attend. But that we should assume she will be with him. SW took in that information and did not repeat her previous mantra that Ms. K must not attend. SW essentially agreed to go with my proposal.

I woke up early Saturday and slipped out to my workout. Ms. I accompanied me but did not work out. She waited and busied herself doing some window shopping nearby. We then stopped for breakfast and ran errands for stuff before the party. Got home and it was a whirlwind of party preparation; I handed Ms. I over to SW and the girls had hair and nail appointments, self-tanning, etc. I checked in with everyone who was supporting the party; the deejay, the balloon-arch people, the photographers, the decorators, the venue, etc. I ran over there about an hour before party time, to drop off supplies and be sure everyone was in place. There were normal glitches and we only had one hour with the space to get it ready, so I ended up stuck there to answer questions. As I raced out to run home and shower and put on my party clothes, the first guests arrived! I smiled and told them I suppose I will be late to my own party. I then ran into one of my best friends who was staying at the hotel and had checked in earlier. He insisted I join him for a tequila in his hotel suite and I could not resist. He poured me a "roadie" and I raced home.

On the way home I realized that I had to send SW and Ms. I ahead of me, to greet the guests, etc. So I handed off the car to SW and Ms. I, and they arrived at the party about 15 minutes late. Just right. I called Mr. E and asked him to retrieve me at my house in 10 minutes. He said the sound system of the hotel was not sufficient and that he had secured permission from the hotel manager for us to bring amplifier, subwoofer and speakers to augment the deejay. He knows I have this stuff. I said he should then give me five minutes extra time before picking me up, that the equipment will be in the entry area of my house and he should load into his car while I was getting dresses. And so it went!

Mr. Italian arrived to the party before I got there, but when I came in he was alone. I greeted him and said nothing about Ms. K. SW was already at the party, greeting guests, being her fabulous self. She looked like a million bucks. Ms. I was on her tail. Most of the guests had arrived before me, so when I popped in, SW announced "the birthday boy is here" and the deejay was already going strong, etc. Open bar, passed appetizers, etc. The decorations were all installed and perfect. Everyone was smiling and having a wonderful time. It was going to be perfect!

About an hour into the party, I noticed that Mr. Italian was no longer alone. Ms. K had quietly arrived and was under his care. I greeted her but not until after I took in her look. She wore a crocheted summery cream-colored dress. No bra. Tan skin, nipples barely visible through the fabric. Thong also barely visible. Vintage Ms. K. I gave Mr. Italian a knowing look, and he returned it. Let's just see how this all rolls out.

Ms. K was on her best behavior. She could not have been more sweet and loving. I remembered why I used to like her so much. And why SW used to like her so much.

Fast forward to the end of the party. A smaller group of us (about 20) went just down the street to a fancy summer bar/lounge for the after-party. We took over the place and added more alcohol to what we'd laid down during the earlier party. Ms. K was there with Mr. Italian, again being her friendly self.

SW was steering clear of Ms. K but there was no negative energy. SW was holding court. Ms. Ch had attended the party with a male date, to keep other guys from hitting on her. She wore a form-fitting orange dress. HOT! She was the connection to get us preferential treatment at the place of the after party. She was taking attention from SW and realized it, and tried to keep a lower profile. She ended up excusing herself and her date, once we were all installed at this after-party place. I was not happy to know she was leaving, but now realize how classy that was of her.

SW was on fire. She was hanging tight with Ms. J. and everyone was around her, as bees with the queen bee. Everyone was buying her and me drinks, etc. My kids were there, her niece was there, so many friends, everyone happy and beautiful. Mr B was there, Mr. Handsome with his Ms. Norse, my tequila boys' night buddies and their wives, etc. etc. The deejay of this place was getting into it. He played a song requested by SW.

She started doing something that caught everyone's attention. She grabbed Ms. J and they exchanged a knowing look, and then proceeded to climb up the bar stools and onto the bar. The bartenders were unprepared for this and kind of stepped back. SW and Ms. J did sexy dance on the bar for everyone to see, a bit of "a show" for us. After about a minute, the bartenders pulled their heads from "the show" and realized this was just too dangerous and coaxed the girls back down into their bar seats. But the effect was accomplished, the whole bar exuberant and to the next level.

I found myself at a table sitting next to Mr. E. He pointed out Ms. K's thong through her dress, and the tan lines that showed through in the lighting of the bar. I observed to Mr. E that Ms. K was aware of our looking at her ass, because she had turned just a bit to give us a better view, and started to sway with the music. I reminded Mr. E that she is not only sexy but evil, and that I worried a bit for Mr. Italian.

Then SW unexpectedly walked over and began talking and hugging with Ms. K! I was tentative but watching this unfold.

After a while, SW went back to her bar seat, got more sloppy and almost fell off her bar stool. I took that as the sign we needed to wrap this up. SW wanted to go home and sleep in her own bed. I gave our hotel room to my daughter and her husband. The younger and the hardcore folks stayed and drank and danced some more. We got home (accompanied also by Ms. I) around 1:30 a.m. with a ride from a designated driver. And fell into bed.

The next day, SW announced that she and Ms. K had fully reconciled and agreed to resume their friendship, with the past being relegated to the past.

Go figure, these women.

[johnstevens555]

So…. Your biggest fantasy is SW reconciling with Ms. K?!?

[slenderfish]

So…. Your biggest fantasy is SW reconciling with Ms. K?!?

LOL that's a good one.

Actually, it's not far from it.

The gift she gave me was her reconciling a friendship with another woman, the fiancee of one of my best friends. The break of the girls' friendship has made it difficult on the guys, in that we had previously been able to plan our adventures, dates, travels, etc. with no issues. Over the past 2+ years, we have only been able to get together as guys.

So SW is about halfway to normalizing the relationship with this woman. They were guests at the party and were guests in our home the day after, for mimosas and brunch, etc.

Of course, I was hoping for something different. I was assuming this repair of the girls' friendship would happen in any case, sooner or later, so in my (small) mind it's kind of a dud birthday gift. But in SW's mind it's one of the best gifts.

I have resolved to request of her to call Mr. J (the young, handsome black guy -- her words -- from about a week ago late night dancing and phone number) and meet him for coffee, etc. to see if there is any possibility of chemistry. As an additional birthday gift.

[slenderfish]

Did you have your party?

Yes we did have the party. Was even better (as a party) than I'd hoped. It spilled over into Sunday. Yesterday (Monday) ended up being the recovery day. I'll update and summarize when there's a bit of time.

I did find out about her "promise" of granting my wish. Not to be misleading, it wasn't a hotwife thing.

We knew it was too good to be true

I agree but, as per my other post, I'm going to lobby for Mr. J. Just need to find the opening.

[Tryn]

Have you figured out who/what she was late night texting, seemingly out of the blue? Shame about the granting of your “biggest fantasy.” I’m guessing that it’s a cover story for not granting an actual fantasy… way to save face.

[slenderfish]

Have you figured out who/what she was late night texting, seemingly out of the blue? Shame about the granting of your “biggest fantasy.” I’m guessing that it’s a cover story for not granting an actual fantasy… way to save face.

Not sure about the late night texting. That is now in the past.

She obviously knows the actual fantasy.

So my next step is to have the conversation and make the request.

[afagehi7]

Wow. You have more social interaction in a weekend than I have in a year! What a socialite!

I agree with the woman leaving so SW could be queen, quite classy and abnormal. She sounds like a catch.

This party was about SW, not you. You were an excuse.

I don't understand how her reconsilistion with K was a gift for you. Supposedly she had something planned and I assure you, this wasn't what she planned. Maybe she had nothing but she didn't go into this a week ago saying that it would be your present, otherwise she would not have protested to her attendance .

A brief, what happened on pavtygate again, just some flirting and showing off? I searched but the search doesn't like to work for me.

[william70]

Any sexy pics from the weekends activities?