A virtual cuckold?

[newaussiecuck]

That doesn't sound like a situation that's going to get better.

Hopefully you are still working on an exit strategy.
I read this interesting quote:

Narcissism is not a personality disorder but an addiction to activating endorphins through
enmeshment.
April Dawn Harter, LCSW

Let me know if it speaks to you.

All the best.

You're right it's probablt not especially as I'm realising this is how our relationship has always been.

Unfortunately though I feel a bit like a deer in the headlights at the moment. Kind of frozen in place. I'm truly gobsmacked by the behaviours and complete shifts in moods etc, it's really dizzying and disorienting and the lack of sleep last few nights hasn't helped me to see things clearly.

The way that happened on Wednesday night so out of the blue from nothing and so intensely has given me that walking on eggshells feeling. Although (for now) everything seems back to "normal" I’m feeling really anxious. Sitting on the couch today watching some tv (I noticed she's moved back to the other coach now, so we're not sitting on the same one anymore). She was reading something on her phone and let out a small sigh (like exasperated type of sigh) and even that instantly had my stomach turning in knots.

Then later she decided to go outside and do some work (shovelling more soil) and again that had me feeling really uneasy. It's amazing to think how I'm now feeling so anxious by her doing work to the point where I really wished she wouldn't be doing any work. It's really strange how I've come to feel this way, but I do. I actually felt like running out there and grabbing the shovel so that she wouldn't have to do it.

I feel that something is very wrong.

Unfortunately when I spoke to my mum the other night and let her know what was happening she said "You might find you’ll be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire". Meaning that if I leave I'll end up with someone worse, or in a worse position. Speaking to my mum isn't helping.

[Long Lurker 34]

That doesn't sound like a situation that's going to get better.

Hopefully you are still working on an exit strategy.
I read this interesting quote:

Narcissism is not a personality disorder but an addiction to activating endorphins through
enmeshment.
April Dawn Harter, LCSW

Let me know if it speaks to you.

All the best.

You're right it's probablt not especially as I'm realising this is how our relationship has always been.

Unfortunately though I feel a bit like a deer in the headlights at the moment. Kind of frozen in place. I'm truly gobsmacked by the behaviours and complete shifts in moods etc, it's really dizzying and disorienting and the lack of sleep last few nights hasn't helped me to see things clearly.

The way that happened on Wednesday night so out of the blue from nothing and so intensely has given me that walking on eggshells feeling. Although (for now) everything seems back to "normal" I’m feeling really anxious. Sitting on the couch today watching some tv (I noticed she's moved back to the other coach now, so we're not sitting on the same one anymore). She was reading something on her phone and let out a small sigh (like exasperated type of sigh) and even that instantly had my stomach turning in knots.

Then later she decided to go outside and do some work (shovelling more soil) and again that had me feeling really uneasy. It's amazing to think how I'm now feeling so anxious by her doing work to the point where I really wished she wouldn't be doing any work. It's really strange how I've come to feel this way, but I do. I actually felt like running out there and grabbing the shovel so that she wouldn't have to do it.

I feel that something is very wrong.

Unfortunately when I spoke to my mum the other night and let her know what was happening she said "You might find you’ll be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire". Meaning that if I leave I'll end up with someone worse, or in a worse position. Speaking to my mum isn't helping.

NAC - As you know I completely agree with WBS statement and have for sometime.
And I hope you have continued meeting with the Psychologist to help in overcoming the brain washing your 'wife' has subjected you to for years..

[Domingo-ITA]

NAC - did ever occur to you that your wife could be something else than a narcissist? For example she could suffer depression or bipolar disorder?
Some of her acts remind me depression/bipolar, while others seem out of the depression realm.
You have had suicide threats and every now and then you say you fear she could do self-harming acts, so I guess you sometimes wonder what exactly is going on with her mental health. How is her relationship life? I mean has she friends, penpals, sisters or brothers, and how does she relate with them? I am no expert, but I believe narcissists do have a lot of “friends” they use to build their selfconfidence and fulfill their need to be admired.
Unfortunately, only a psychiatrist or psychoanalist can diagnose. You will need a diagnosis both if you stay in the marriage or you exit, if you don’t want to risk her suicide.

(again, I am no expert in mental health. Please take my words just as a mere suggestion)

[newaussiecuck]

I wrote most of this last night but didn't get to post it.

On a more positive note, this morning I spoke to the partner of the lady that is friends with L's brother. She was the one who told L about this park. L had said about this lady "So we have that in common". So her partner came to the park this morning. I haven't seen him or her for probably 4 or 5 months. I didn't speak too long and I refrained from asking about L, but when I asked how her partner was he said she's good etc. Then the very next thing he asked me was how my mother in law's dog was. So I guess that's a big thing that's been discussed. I said that I haven't seen her for some time. Maybe that will get back to L.

However, I think I'm starting to have stronger feelings for N2. Today was the first time I've seen her since Tuesday, and I think I do like her. I'm not sure if she meant to tell me or if it just slipped out, but I now know where she works. She told me the industry that she works in, and I made a 1st guess at the organisation and she confirmed that my guess was correct.

[newaussiecuck]

That doesn't sound like a situation that's going to get better.

Hopefully you are still working on an exit strategy.
I read this interesting quote:

Narcissism is not a personality disorder but an addiction to activating endorphins through
enmeshment.
April Dawn Harter, LCSW

Let me know if it speaks to you.

All the best.

You're right it's probablt not especially as I'm realising this is how our relationship has always been.

Unfortunately though I feel a bit like a deer in the headlights at the moment. Kind of frozen in place. I'm truly gobsmacked by the behaviours and complete shifts in moods etc, it's really dizzying and disorienting and the lack of sleep last few nights hasn't helped me to see things clearly.

The way that happened on Wednesday night so out of the blue from nothing and so intensely has given me that walking on eggshells feeling. Although (for now) everything seems back to "normal" I’m feeling really anxious. Sitting on the couch today watching some tv (I noticed she's moved back to the other coach now, so we're not sitting on the same one anymore). She was reading something on her phone and let out a small sigh (like exasperated type of sigh) and even that instantly had my stomach turning in knots.

Then later she decided to go outside and do some work (shovelling more soil) and again that had me feeling really uneasy. It's amazing to think how I'm now feeling so anxious by her doing work to the point where I really wished she wouldn't be doing any work. It's really strange how I've come to feel this way, but I do. I actually felt like running out there and grabbing the shovel so that she wouldn't have to do it.

I feel that something is very wrong.

Unfortunately when I spoke to my mum the other night and let her know what was happening she said "You might find you’ll be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire". Meaning that if I leave I'll end up with someone worse, or in a worse position. Speaking to my mum isn't helping.

NAC - As you know I completely agree with WBS statement and have for sometime.
And I hope you have continued meeting with the Psychologist to help in overcoming the brain washing your 'wife' has subjected you to for years..

Thank you LL34! I'm still meeting with the psychologist and I have my next appointment on Wednesday. I had dialed it back.to every 2nd week after things had settled down with all the suicide threats etc. It's getting a bit expensive.

I'll be sure to let him know what happened this week and how it's made me feel.

I just caught myself giving "wife" a very affectionate hug and kiss on top of her head when she came back into bed this morning! I felt all these strong (nice) emotions towards her.

Intellectually I can understand that it's not healthy and probably from somthing called "trauma bonds", like Stockholm Syndrome. That I'm feeling good feelings from the slightest scrap of good treatment after the abuse this week. However, I feel how I feel and just wanted to note it down.

Knowing it intellectually and feeling are two different things. Unfortunately with that show of affection I've just gone and rewarded her for the bad treatment this week. Unfortunately it worked. Whether it was intentional or not on her part, I felt stronger affection for her this morning than I did this time last week.

[newaussiecuck]

NAC - did ever occur to you that your wife could be something else than a narcissist? For example she could suffer depression or bipolar disorder?
Some of her acts remind me depression/bipolar, while others seem out of the depression realm.
You have had suicide threats and every now and then you say you fear she could do self-harming acts, so I guess you sometimes wonder what exactly is going on with her mental health. How is her relationship life? I mean has she friends, penpals, sisters or brothers, and how does she relate with them? I am no expert, but I believe narcissists do have a lot of “friends” they use to build their selfconfidence and fulfill their need to be admired.
Unfortunately, only a psychiatrist or psychoanalist can diagnose. You will need a diagnosis both if you stay in the marriage or you exit, if you don’t want to risk her suicide.

(again, I am no expert in mental health. Please take my words just as a mere suggestion)

Yes it's definitely possible, or it could also be a combination of a few different things. It's possible to have depression on top of narcissist personality disorder. It's also possible to have Antisocial Personality Disorder (Psychopath) on top of Narcissist Personality Disorder, which is called Malignant Narcissist.

I can only go by what I've observed, the 5 books I've now read on the subject and the psychologist's assessment after 2 hours of describing major events over the last 3 years, and several sessions describing more recent events.

The psychologist has reiterated the need to protect myself (as did the workplace counsellor), so whatever the diagnosis she has, it's not having a good affect on me.

I looked in the mirror this morning and I can see the difference in my appearance as compared to 3 months ago before the Easter blowup and "wife" stopping her online relationship and concentrating on me. I can see bags under my eyes that weren't there before for example.

As for the suicide threats, the psychologist's assessment was that was done for manipulation rather than a serious intent to action on her part. Again he could be wrong there. If that Waa manipulation, so too could (and probably was given the outcome) of the events from this week.

As for friends and family, she doesn't have many and has distanced herself from many of them over the years. However I understand that it's common for narcissists to discard people that don't live up to the ideals they set (ie not good enough or not giving then enough praise or attention etc).

Having said all that, yes it's still possible that I'm wrong and I guess I'm still observing and gathering information to help decide on how to move forward.

[newaussiecuck]

I can't profess to understand what's going on or what's happened or how I'm supposed to feel about it or what to do about it. It's all truly thoroughly confusing to me.

I could be wrong, but I don't often hear people in a relationship with someone with depression or bipolar describe the situation as confusing. I do hear it described as confusing by people in a relationship with a narcissist or psychopath.

There's a book on narcissism called "Out of the Fog". ie out of the fog of confusion, but it's also a play on words for 3 main tactics used to keep people stuck in the relationship Fear Obligation Guilt (FOG).

The "wife" had a 3 year online relationship with another woman all while pretending to be a man the whole time. I don't even know how to begin trying to work out what was going on there, or how I'm supposed to process it. It doesn't seem at all normal and I'm still thoroughly confused by it. If she's lesbian then why not have a relationship with a woman as a woman? Why pretend to be a man? The only logical conclusion that I can come up with is that she was getting a kick out of how well she could play and fool the poor lady. If that's the case, it's pretty messed up, but I can't think of what else it could possibly be.

But then when I look at her today she seems so completely normal, like I'd be crazy to bust up a marriage with her, we actually had a pretty good day. Last Thursday morning though, not so much. It's like a completely different person.

So yeah, all very confusing to me.

[Domingo-ITA]

I could be wrong, but I don't often hear people in a relationship with someone with depression or bipolar describe the situation as confusing. I do hear it described as confusing by people in a relationship with a narcissist or psychopath.

Sorry to disagree. I’ve seen this myself several times. First time you see a depressed familiar - or, worse, bipolar - you feel confused. When you see another person depressed, you feel confused as well as the external manifestations are very personal. Only when you see the same person falling into depression again, you soon realize he/she is in depression.

Some people can seem happy people to everybody, and then suddenly they commit suicide. Some others simply start to do “strange” reasoning without seeming depressed. Each of this can confuse their familiars.
Don’t deduct anything based on the way *you* feel. Just my opinion.

[newaussiecuck]

I could be wrong, but I don't often hear people in a relationship with someone with depression or bipolar describe the situation as confusing. I do hear it described as confusing by people in a relationship with a narcissist or psychopath.

Sorry to disagree. I’ve seen this myself several times. First time you see a depressed familiar - or, worse, bipolar - you feel confused. When you see another person depressed, you feel confused as well as the external manifestations are very personal. Only when you see the same person falling into depression again, you soon realize he/she is in depression.

Some people can seem happy people to everybody, and then suddenly they commit suicide. Some others simply start to do “strange” reasoning without seeming depressed. Each of this can confuse their familiars.
Don’t deduct anything based on the way *you* feel. Just my opinion.

Yes agreed. It could possibly be depression.

However, there's a lot of other signs and behaviours that I'm objectively observing while trying to keep feelings aside. Some of these behaviours I can recognise patterns of dating back 20 years. I do feel there's somthing ingrained in her personality that do seem to be a bit troubling.

Having said that, things aren't always bad and there have been some good times, even recently.

Unfortunately there's been a never ending stream of different tactics and ploys. It feels like she's scrolling through different masks to show to me until she finds the one that I'm happy to relate with. It kind of feels like nothing is real.

[newaussiecuck]

I'm meeting with the psychologist tomorrow. I feel like I'm a bit of a mess. Feeling like I should just plow through and try and work things out with the "wife" while at the same time realising I've gotten here through obvious manipulation, dirty tricks, emotional blackmail and threats. So yeah, that's not good, but as I mentioned I do feel that way now that things have calmed down again. For how long though?

There's something else that happened last Thursday night (same day as she was acting REALLY weird) that may or may not be related. It's most likely a coincidence but if it's not then it's downright terrifying! I'll also speak to the psychologist about that tomorrow. Long story short my dog hurt her leg Thursday night. It was most likely that she slipped or misjudged her jump onto the couch and reinjured her leg that's been perfectly fine for over 12 months or . . . . . . So 2 hours later I very very gently lowered her to the floor as I always do since she first got the injury. After putting her on the floor she was limping a bit. So it was either from jumping onto the couch wrong or . . . . . . . . .

Don't worry though, she's doing great. Running again now and jumping up and down on things again. She was just a bit sore walking on it that night and next day. I'm sure it was just an accident.

Also, I think "wife" might be starting to show signs that she may be slipping into old habits again. Not on the computer but maybe on her phone. I'm not sure, just a bit of a feeling. She seems a bit too happy and more relaxed but yet also a bit more distant.

However, on a different note there's another reason that I'm a bit of a mess. I'm finding that I'm REALLY liking N2. Quite a lot. I want to talk to her more but I'm feeling a bit nervous around her now. Like I don't want to mess it up like I did with L. I'm also not sure how she feels. I feel like she's interested but I don't know for sure, and I'm feeling like I really want her to be. I've noticed she seems to be wearing a little bit nicer clothes to the park last couple of times, so I guess that's a good sign. She was looking amazing tonight!

At the same time, yeah I don't know if I should be trying to get closer to her or trying to work things out with wife first. I'm not feeling as good in myself right now as I was a couple of months back. I'm not feeling so confident in myself, which again isn’t a good sign. It might also be why I'm feeling so nervous around N2 all of a sudden. I'm lacking in a bit of confidence.

[newaussiecuck]

So this morning I rolled over early in the morning around 6am and I heard wife's phone snap closed. Before I even said anything she said "I was drooling". As in she was saying that she had been fast asleep. Obviously she was covering up for the fact that she was on her phone and not wanting me to know that she was on her phone. It's obviously not proof of bad behaviour but after nearly 3 years of her online relationship this is concerning.

[whosbeensleeping]

That's really worrying. Hope you can somehow find out what's happening on that front.

[joel68]

Have you thought about looking at her phone to see what’s up?

Maybe she has it with her all the time, but she does need to take a shower.

This whole thing has consisted of a lot of behavior that is not normal to say the least. Do you think she’s getting back into old habits? Like the 3 year online affair where she pretended to be a guy? Who does that?

Do you really want to have the status quo for the next 30-40 years?

[newaussiecuck]

That's really worrying. Hope you can somehow find out what's happening on that front.

Yeah, unfortunately it's likely that I won't ever find out. I think she's gotten better at hiding stuff. In all honesty though it probably doesn't matter. I think the almost 3 years previously was enough. An affair (real life or online emotional) is one thing, but the way that I was 100% disregarded during that time was something else. The surgery, funeral etc showed her true colours. She'll do whatever she wants and to hell with what I or anyone else thinks. It's not personal against me, she did the same to her mum also.

It's 9:30pm and we were watching a football game (on separate couches as has been the norm since last Thursday night). She just got up and has gone to bed alone. The game still has 25 minutes to go.

[newaussiecuck]

Have you thought about looking at her phone to see what’s up?

Maybe she has it with her all the time, but she does need to take a shower.

This whole thing has consisted of a lot of behavior that is not normal to say the least. Do you think she’s getting back into old habits? Like the 3 year online affair where she pretended to be a guy? Who does that?

Do you really want to have the status quo for the next 30-40 years?

I don't think I really even need to find out. I've already seen enough. Yes I think she's getting back into some old habits, what I don't know.

The psychologist today mentioned one of the investigative news shows here ran a story and it made him think of me. A lady got caught up in a love scam on the internet and the guy she thought she was talking to ended up being another lady! Similar situation, catfishing. That one turned out really badly for the poor victim. When the "guy" (actually a lady) stopped responding to her she committed suicide!

So yeah, I guess some ladies can do this sort of stuff.

[newaussiecuck]

After telling all that happened last week, the psychologist said that regardless of the reasons, or what's driving her behaviours etc etc etc, what I need to ask myself is "How much more of this do I want to take?". Very fair question.

[Long Lurker 34]

After telling all that happened last week, the psychologist said that regardless of the reasons, or what's driving her behaviours etc etc etc, what I need to ask myself is "How much more of this do I want to take?". Very fair question.

NAC - What can I say that I haven't already. I'm with your psychologist.

[joel68]

Long Lurker, me too.

How much longer do you want to endure the status quo? It appears that at this point things are not going to go back to the way they were when you started out.

So do you want to continue down this path the way things are now?

But it's your life and up to you to decide what to do. Good luck whatever you decide. I am sure everyone here is rooting for you.

[newaussiecuck]

After telling all that happened last week, the psychologist said that regardless of the reasons, or what's driving her behaviours etc etc etc, what I need to ask myself is "How much more of this do I want to take?". Very fair question.

NAC - What can I say that I haven't already. I'm with your psychologist.

Thanks for your continued support, and to everyone really! Yes he makes good sense.

[newaussiecuck]

Long Lurker, me too.

How much longer do you want to endure the status quo? It appears that at this point things are not going to go back to the way they were when you started out.

So do you want to continue down this path the way things are now?

But it's your life and up to you to decide what to do. Good luck whatever you decide. I am sure everyone here is rooting for you.

Thanks Joel, yes it's becoming obvious that things won't get better.

I've written a long post but I might hold onto it at least for now. The gist of it is that I used to worship the ground that she walked on, and with her personality type things worked out really well for us.

However with events over these last 3 years, the illusion has been shattered and I can no longer worship her like I used to. I could instead possibly be able to come to a point where we could have a normal healthy relationship between equals and I have been trying hard to steer things in that direction over the last month or two. Unfortunately it's becoming clearer by the day that wouldn't fly with her. With her personality type I believe she needs full and absolute ownership and control over me, and I can no longer allow that due to how it all turned to shit last time. I used to trust her completely and unquestioningly, but she's shown that she can't be trusted. Without trust we can't have the relationship we used to have.

With enough time and effort we could possibly rebuild enough trust to be able to have a relationship as equals or even with me taking the lead. However, trust could never be rebuilt to the point necessary to have a relationship where she has full control over me.

[newaussiecuck]

I have to say that I'm really liking N2 quite a lot and have been developing stronger feelings towards her, especially in these last few days and they only seem to be growing stronger. I need to reel myself in lest I scare her away. As mentioned, she looked amazing the other night and I think I also mentioned a while back that we seem to share similar views on a few things. There's a lot to like about her.

If I see him tonight, I think I might ask the old guy at the park about her. Whether he knows if she's single (I think she is) and whether she's mentioned anything to him about me (I think she has). Otherwise, if she's there tonight, I might mention a few things to her.

She wasn't there last night and I found myself missing her. The night before I think she had to leave work early to be there and might have done so knowing that I would be there, she actually had to do some work while there.

I'm not sure, but for some reason I can't shake the feeling that L might have been there yesterday but left before I got there. Someone was leaving just as I arrived (late) and I asked her about who was there earlier (to see if N2 had been there or not, but I didn't mention any names). She seemed a bit cagey and didn't really want to answer which I found strange.

Later I asked someone else (who doesn't know L) about who was there earlier and the description could possibly fit L and her dog. Although it could also fit a good dozen other people too, so who knows.

I thought a LOT about N2 the last couple of nights, and as of right now if I had the opportunity to or was forced to choose between them I think I would actually choose N2. I think we have a lot more in common, and I'm not certain but I think she went through her own breakup last year so would have that in common also. I'm pretty sure that she had a partner when I first saw her about 18 months ago, that's how long I've known of her.

N2 is also a part of our social circle at the park, so is friends with my friends there. Whereas L is an outsider, seems to have a partner, and had disappeared for long periods twice now which makes me a bit wary. It's easier to play nice for short periods of time.

[joel68]

Maybe you should amp up your investigation into L. If you find out she’s involved with a guy at this time for sure, then you could close that chapter and put your efforts in another direction. But wondering if you just missed her at the park makes me think you are still holding out hope for another meet-up with L. And maybe correcting any misconceptions on her part. I do believe you have resigned yourself to the fact that she won’t call.

Have there been any more interactions at work with N?

[newaussiecuck]

Maybe you should amp up your investigation into L. If you find out she’s involved with a guy at this time for sure, then you could close that chapter and put your efforts in another direction. But wondering if you just missed her makes me think you are still holding out hope for another meet-up with L. I do believe you have resigned yourself to the fact that she won’t call.

Have there been any more interactions at work with N?

I'm not sure, I was actually looking out for N2 and was starting to think it could be awkward/tricky if L comes back right now. But yeah I guess I do still have some feelings for L, but N2's are stronger right now.

As for N, last time I saw or heard from her was as I was walking away from her desk a couple of weeks ago now and I've put her out of mind.

However it's funny you mention N as I just got invited (through someone on my team) to stop by for drinks at a pub with people in N's team. I have no idea if N will be there or not, but I've said that I will stop by for a while.

So someone in N's department invited someone from my department to drinks and asked him to extend the invitation to everyone in my department.

[newaussiecuck]

If I see him tonight, I think I might ask the old guy at the park about her. Whether he knows if she's single (I think she is) and whether she's mentioned anything to him about me (I think she has).

I think I wrote about this before, but the reason I think N2 mentioned somthing to him about me was a day a few weeks ago when before leaving she wished the old retired guy "good luck" and then not a minute later he asked me if I've seen L recently.

I'm fairly certain that N2 had asked him to find out whether I was seeing L or not.

I think I would like to speak to him about her. I also want to speak to her directly and let her know where I work and what I do for a living since she told me about her last week, if she doesn't already know. She probably does already kmow as a few of the people there do already know.

N2 was also sitting just a few meters away about a month back when I was talking to the lady (whom I got her number in case of emergency and she offered to rent a room to me), about some of what had been going on with me and "wife". She overheard some of it (how much I'm not sure) and she even asked me directly at the time what I was talking about (as she'd overheard some of it). I think at the time I just said somthing like "oh nothing", but she would have known somthing was up with me. She's probably asked around a bit as a few of them know now (I've directly told 3 people).

One of the people that I told directly (a young girl who has a partner and I'm just platonic friends with) exchanged phone numbers with N2 on Tuesday night as she was going to pick somthing up from her house. So maybe they've even talked about me or will do.

[joel68]

Interesting. I hope there’s more to report about this going forward.